[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread

[Mypi]

1 hour ago, ChameleonBro said:

Okay ? You do realize you can get 500% + damage on average with it right ?

And what exactly do you need 500%+ damage for? Most, if not any maxed weapon in the game can already one-two shot any enemy up to level 50, and any decently modded non-trash weapon can quickly dispatch enemies up to level 80. Since the game's base content pretty much ends at level 100, i'm sure you can see how redundant it becomes.

Not only that, but you need ALIVE enemies in the rift to get it. So if you want the buff up constantly, you need to keep some of them hostage. I suppose with a max range cataclysm, while stasis is active, the buff would help you kill a level 100 boss, but besides that, i don't see the point.

I guess it's useful for new players that don't have all mods available, or piles of formas and potatoes. Seems okay for leveling, but becomes redundant for most weapons once you reach "end-game".

[Music4Therapy]

20 hours ago, Godzilla853 said:

I don't see the problem with limbo and how is he a nuke 

The fact that this comment has most thumbs up than the detailed OP just shows what kind of community Warframe has lmao.

 

Anyways, good luck on the crusade @-N7-Leonhart, I agree 100% and have made a post regarding what I'd change as well.

[Music4Therapy]

On 4/6/2017 at 0:48 PM, Mypi said:

4- (This one is harder to implement, but still essential) Rift Surge.

This overly complicated mess of an ability might be the worst skill in the game right now. It's use overlaps cataclysm, except it has a tiny area, a complicated sequence of steps required to work, and just wastes your allies time, accomplishing literally nothing in the end.

At least the augment is okay, i guess.

Suggestion: Set it on fire. I really don't know what to do with this. But i'll try: Make it work against non-rifted enemies for the initial activation (regardless of which plane you're in), and on affected enemy death, throw all enemies nearby (on either planes) into the rift. If an already rifted enemy is in range of a marked enemy death pulse, make it take scaling damage based on number of enemies hit by the same death pulse.

On the contrary, the ability is amazing.

At the moment, leaving your cataclysm results in you being placed outside the rift. Using Rift Surge, you can maintain your invincibility by casting it before your Cata ends. This makes it to where all enemies in the Rift remain in the Rift, which makes it to where when your Cata ends you aren't killed instantly by the survivors. It, combined with his 2, allows him to stay invincible between going in and out of the rift.

[Mypi]

8 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

On the contrary, the ability is amazing.

At the moment, leaving your cataclysm results in you being placed outside the rift. Using Rift Surge, you can maintain your invincibility by casting it before your Cata ends. This makes it to where all enemies in the Rift remain in the Rift, which makes it to where when your Cata ends you aren't killed instantly by the survivors. It, combined with his 2, allows him to stay invincible between going in and out of the rift.

Or you can just push 4 again and kill everything in sight. Shrug.

If the ability's only use is to cater to the specific playstyle of leaving a long-duration cata up without it's essential augment, and even then it's only use being keeping the enemies that are still alive (?????????why do they live?????did you not shoot them???why cata them in the first place then???) inside the rift, then the ability is complete trash. I'd rather have something from Oberon.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Mypi

[Music4Therapy]

Just now, Mypi said:

Or you can just push 4 again and kill everything in sight. Shrug.

If the ability's only use is to cater to the specific playstyle of leaving a long-duration cata up without it's essential augment, and even then it's only use being keeping the enemies that are still alive (?????????why do they live?????did you not shoot them???why cata them in the first place then???) inside the rift, then the ability is complete trash. I'd rather have something from Oberon.

His 3 allows him to leave the Rift without dying instantly and to throw massive amounts of enemies at a time into the Rift and kep them there. Without it, he would die instantly upon leaving his Cataclysm. Why not give back his old damage multiplier from his old 3 to targets affected by Rift Surge and then remove the scaling from his Cata so he doesn't instantly blow up every non-armored enemy on the screen regardless of level while maintaining complete invincibility and the ability to simultaneously defend objectives while doing so? He scales infinitely both offensively and defensively and is his own Trinity due to the fact he has so much energy regen (2 per second and 10 per enemy killed)

Something has to give. You have good ideas, btw. Just wish you saw the potential in his 3 because since learning how it works I can't imagine life without it regardless of my Limbo build.

[Xekrin]

8 hours ago, chaotea said:

1st ability doesnt target players anymore though

It doesn't? If it was changed I didn't realize, but the day of Limbo Rework release a Limbo just spammed 1 while I was running ahead of him fighting and I got banished (along with a few enemies of course) at least 5 times in a row within a minute.

If that was changed, hurray.

[(PSN)psycofang]

2 hours ago, Music4Therapy said:

) I mention his CC because I'm looking at his kit as a whole. Is stasis great on its own? Is cataclysm great on its own?

It actually is yes, stasis isnt necessary until it becomes dangerous enough to warrant itself. Stasis cannot function alone so by itself it sucks since its only use is intrinsic to the rift itself.

2 hours ago, Music4Therapy said:

Only 3 other frames are capable of placing a barrier that is capable of infinitely defending an objective;

Sounds more like they need to be brought up to his/Nidus/Octavia and Equinoxs level. Frost is halfway there with bubble defense and avalanche armor stripping.

Atlas is on a whole other level of damage and due to Zenurik can maintain 4X landslide modifier and invincibility indefinitely.

 

Vauban locks down maps and enemies out of a map casually and for very little effort while slaightering the all with gas kamas

Volt is the only 1 really left in the dust but even he can, on an efficiency build, tank infinite amounts of damage from the front and slightly the sides.

2 hours ago, Music4Therapy said:

I think it would be fair to bring back the damage multiplier from his old 3 back and taking away his massive, aoe damage potential.

Or just tie it to power strength/invert cara/or 1% per 1-2 second to a max of 10%. 

To advocate removing scaling is very backwards imho as it only further restricts what frames can achieve. A damage modifier will never beat a % based scaling ability.

2 hours ago, Music4Therapy said:

He completely outclasses these 3 frames and is without question the best defense frame in the game right now.

Except vs Vauban/Octavia/Nidus to a degree/Sleepquinox etc

2 hours ago, Music4Therapy said:

can say with confidence through my gameplay experience so far with Limbo's rework (I've scored ~75k+ kills as Limbo since his rework) that energy is a complete non-issue so long as you aren't spamming cataclysm and losing the 10 energy per enemy killed in the Rift would be a complete non-issue for me. I also run a 170% efficiency build tho.

Which is flawed logic on 2 fronts

 

Who were you going up against? A ranged Gas Saryn will shatter your kill count without her ever needing to move. Also counting limbo kills are relatively unfair considering he can easily isolate large quantities of enemies and wipe them out with his team unable to help.

Your efficiency build means your rift torrent is suffering, if someone like me decides to go power strength and jack my damage to 67% bonis per enemy in the rift, banish for knock downs into channeled finishers for amazing damage etc youll be sitting at 80% or 50%. 

2 hours ago, Music4Therapy said:

Although I really like the idea, I don't think it solves the issue of Limbo's kit remaining overloaded. He would still have infinite potential in too many areas.

Time based CC would solve any and all issues, infinite potential in 2 areas is not too many, id prefer volt/frost especially/nova etc to actually have scaling abilities instead of being dead in the water vs the many warframes who already scale.

2 hours ago, Music4Therapy said:

) Multipliers of that nature take you very, very deep into late game.

But not as far as i arbitrarily want.

2 hours ago, Music4Therapy said:

To the final point, Nidus and Equinox. Day Form Equinox lacks CC and defensive scaling and takes time/effort to build his damage for his 4, and neither form of Equinox scales infinitely defensively or is capable of defending an objective. 

Nidus at base vs level 200 corrupted can gain 5-14 stacks per (after 1 stomp hit 3 and after 3 stomps hit 4) and will gain stacks rapidly even after he stops stomping due to the game trying to catch up. I died on purpose in survival just to see how fast he can really wind up and its freakish.

Equinox has sleep/maim (which stuns and bleeds). Covert lethality vs corrupt enemies will scale forever while she runs a daycare on the lower enemies she 1 shots the 200+ heavy bombard/gunners drastically sending her maim into the solar system all the while the sleeping mobs are also bleeding to death. This takes less than 20s to do.

A ranged sleep build (augment) or peace prov (80% slow and can sleep from afar) also doesnt negatively impact maim with CL. 

Nidus with range hits his 2 and massive quantities of enemies are absorbed rapidly and killed extremely fast even if they are armored while maggots CC easily.

 

2 hours ago, Music4Therapy said:

Limbo has too much in his kit.

His kit is fine it just needs a time by % based adjustment which doubles as a damage nerf if you think about it.

 

Edited April 7, 2017 by (PS4)psycofang

[AlaskanWolf]

On 4/3/2017 at 11:40 AM, ChameleonBro said:

Let me tell you why you are not completely right

1. He is the best reviver but if there are nullifiers around you are more than likely screwed unless the teammate manages to get rid of the bubble, and you can't cause you are in the rift. This is something he could always do so it stayed, nothing changed here.

2. Yes, currently he is the best defense frame, though that makes you switch between planes to do different things which requires more things to do. A refreshing sight to see.

3. Yes he is practically immortal, but you can't do S#&$ if you do what you just said. "Just press shift", that is putting things out of context, sure you can't die but you can't do anything either. It is his main mechanic and was from the get go, the only difference being he can do it now with the press of a different button

4. Cataclysm is NOT as strong as people lead on to. It scales by doing damage based on 10% of all enemies CURRENT health and SHIELDS, NOT armor which is important. He can take down trash mobs. Especially the Corpus and the infested, but anything with armor will nullify most of the damage barely taking out trash mobs. It also does 10% of the CURRENT hp and shields which means it will be significantly weaker the more you use it. Using an ability on low level missions doesn't make it broken. If you want to nerf the damage of Cataclysm than you might as well nerfr Banshees Sound Quacke, Mesa's Peacemaker etc, Having abilities scale is a great thing and if you noticed, DE has been pushing scaling for quite a bit. Nekros rework - scales, Nidus - scales, Octavia - scales, Limbo rework - scales. I would not be surprised at all if future frames and reworks do the same thing, it is necessary in a game like Warframe which suffers from powercreep.

 

Cataclysm used to be a very underwhelming ability which only sent an area to the rift, damage was pathetic and didn't have anything going for it, it was suicide. Now it feels like an actual ability worth of being a 4th ability. Players who build for nuking lose out on the rest of Limbos kit which in my eyes is a fair trade off, as in why the hell would you throw away everything you have for a nuke.

very well put.

 

People need to stop posting skewed videos of cata nukes in the simulacrum, it only spreads misinformation which, once spread, is hard to kill.

 

and the argument that "all you have to do is enter the rift" is stupid, for reasons quoted above.

 

side note... it seems to me that casting cataclysm and then using RS and THEN collapsing cataclysm does more damage... could someone verify weather or not RS -with Rift Torrent- DMG% buff is added to the cata collapse?

[Lord_Terios]

@Limbo is to strong comments from other threads, and possibly this one. (1500+ kills.)

I honestly don't get the problem.

Where I'm coming from: I am a Galatine Prime melee only player. I played this game because of Galatine, way before melee 2.0 was I running berserk on this thing, and was greatly appreciative when the two mods came out that made every melee weapon viable regardless of what it was. To compliment my Galatine only build at the time I ran frost with stretch + over extended to CC the area I am in so that I may melee. (and bubble spam was fun until people complained about not being able to shoot even tho they holy had to take a few steps forward to do so.)

Anyways long story short the new Limbo rework gave me EXACTLY what I have always wanted in this game, (if a bit strong in the CC department but you're squishy compared to frost so w/e) with added possibility to build for AoE nuke. Current day pre-limbo change I would Inaros with Galatine cuz melee only = you're virtually immortal as long as you can do damage and nothing one shots you so no need for CC, and if you do you had a spammy 1 skill that proced finisher.

So now I get back to not getting the problem? If we're talking damage and kills, Mirage with syn-simulor among many other skill spamming builds would be comparable to any Galatine Prime build that runs ahead... I never complained? Most people in game (I'm not as privy to the forums) haven't complained, It was allowed to live for a LOOONG TIME, and there are still lots of builds that are just as strong. With tons of these builds running around I ask whats the difference? and any time I did top damage and kills(which was majority of the time) I'd be stealing kills anyways, just wouldn't be as obvious.

And in Limbo's defense at things like resistance level 100 survival or something limbo loses the ability to AoE nuke so it scales well to a point, but I agree the damage fall off should be like around lvl 65 as opposed to 90 maybe.

At the end of the day people are complaining about lost kills, and getting kills. Then people are always upset when their build can't do it, it would probably just be better to take damage and kills off the end scoreboard. If affinity is the issue don't you get a ton when others get kills too?

Is it easy? yeah. But so is Galatine or old mirage symulor combo, or any other AoE death build for that matter. Only thing in the game that has some challenge to it is soloing lvl 100 raptor with a Loki, without life strike, and nothing in skill duration, and hobbling key, but I guess only the truly hard core debuff themselves (to bad this entire game is a gear treadmill of power with a free market). 

But whatever this is going to get nerfed anyways so suggestion on how to do it: Currently the strength arises from how the rift collapsing scales. My solution is to have that be based on ability power, so when specing for range it still scales but max range reduces that.

@people annoyed by stasis... Just pull out your melee.
Q: What if I have a bad melee?
A: Don't use a bad melee.

PS: in terms of functionality I love every aspect of Limbo now, even if you nerf the AoE nukes. The utility of being able to cata + stasis, Surge, then close. Is really cool for objective based missions especially when you take into account the draw back of not being able to access panels in the rift. Limbo feels like a Void Sorcerer and I love it.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Lord_Terios

[Music4Therapy]

1 hour ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

It actually is yes, stasis isnt necessary until it becomes dangerous enough to warrant itself. Stasis cannot function alone so by itself it sucks since its only use is intrinsic to the rift itself.

Sounds more like they need to be brought up to his/Nidus/Octavia and Equinoxs level. Frost is halfway there with bubble defense and avalanche armor stripping.

Atlas is on a whole other level of damage and due to Zenurik can maintain 4X landslide modifier and invincibility indefinitely.

1) Stasis is essentially a cheap Rhino Stomp across all enemies in the Rift, which has a massive radius. While I agree more frames need infinite scaling, we don't need frames that scales infinitely in every direction. IMO, frames should be tailored towards a certain role and built to exceed towards that role. If we just have a bunch of jack-of-all-trades frames that scale infinitely then the frames with the best kits would always be chosen, hence me stating Limbo is overloaded.

Atlas also falls off EXTREMELY hard vs armor and that invincibility is only active so long as he is able to continue chaining his landslide. In Mot Survival or any endless survival vs armored targets, you'll start to see a very large damage falloff as the game goes on. His damage totals are insane vs Corpus and Infested missions, however. Limbo is similar in that regard, conditional invincibility and insane damage vs non-armored targets. The difference? Atlas falls off, Limbo doesn't. Atlas needs to be in melee range to utilize his amazing damage potential and needs to keep chaining his attacks to remain invincible and will die very quickly if he can't continue chaining in endless so he is relegated moreso to hiding behind his wall after a certain point with a punch through weapon. His CC also prevents him from attacking all together, unlike Limbo who only prevents temporarily holds the projectiles in the air until the effect ends. Limbo can do everything Atlas does safely and on a large scale and from a range. He outclasses Atlas.

 

Vauban locks down maps and enemies out of a map casually and for very little effort while slaightering the all with gas kamas

Volt is the only 1 really left in the dust but even he can, on an efficiency build, tank infinite amounts of damage from the front and slightly the sides.

2) Vauban isn't invincible while doing so and can't instantaneously blow up a whole room of enemies and isn't capable of making his allies/objective invincible. Vauban is great vs infested, gets wrecked hard by near every other faction. I'm not advocating removing scaling so much as I am asking for consistency and specialization. Volt is a great example of how jack-of-all-trades frames should be. He has scaling all over the place, through damage multipliers and speed buffs, decent CC (damage cap keeps his 4 from being top tier imo, similar to Limbo's projectile cap keeping it from being top tier imo), but scales infinitely defensively through the use of his shields which also buffs team damage. If Volt's 4 did damage based on a % of enemies health, and if abilities like it scaled as well, then I would be in favor of Limbo's 4 doing so. But in the current iteration of the game, its not balanced.

To advocate removing scaling is very backwards imho as it only further restricts what frames can achieve. A damage modifier will never beat a % based scaling ability.

3) I am advocating consistency and specialization. Consistency across abilities for all frames, and specializations so each frame has defined role(s) so that every frame brings something to a squad. Frames shouldn't be relegated to solo play imo and should all be capable of bringing something to a squad. That currently isn't the case and many frames are plain outclassed.

Except vs Vauban/Octavia/Nidus to a degree/Sleepquinox etc

4) Those frames don't come close to Limbo in defense missions. Limbo can protect a particular objective from infinite amounts of damage for an infinite amount of time, none of those frames are capable of doing so. FE, Nidus can't recast his 2 until its duration ends or until every enemy inside of it is dead. Etc... If you are looking to take a squad into endgame, you will want a Frost, Limbo, or Volt on your squad. And among those 3, Limbo's kit outclasses the other 2 due to better scaling into late game due to infinite scaling in multiple fronts. Also, if Frost/Limbo/Volt scaled infinitely offensively and defensively there would be no reason to take any other frame in the game into a mission aside from just to have fun because by default they are the only frames in the game capable of defending objectives due to the nature of their abilities (shielding) thus would be capable of massive aoe destruction in addition to being able to protect all allies and themselves from harm. That is why specialization is key. Want something protected? Limbo, Frost, or Volt. Each should bring something unique to the table. Frost has hard cc and slows for days, Volt has hard cc and buffs for days, Limbo has hard cc and the ability to protect key targets via banish, which makes him great in escort type missions... and was why used so much in Pacifism Defect.

 

Quote

Which is flawed logic on 2 fronts

Who were you going up against? A ranged Gas Saryn will shatter your kill count without her ever needing to move. Also counting limbo kills are relatively unfair considering he can easily isolate large quantities of enemies and wipe them out with his team unable to help.

Your efficiency build means your rift torrent is suffering, if someone like me decides to go power strength and jack my damage to 67% bonis per enemy in the rift, banish for knock downs into channeled finishers for amazing damage etc youll be sitting at 80% or 50%. 

5) A couple hours+ deep in endurance runs vs multiple factions both solo and in squads. I don't see a Saryn coming close to my kill count, as I've played with many recently, but Saryn is an excellent partner for Limbo. Limbo causes her Viral and Toxin procs to last infinitely while Stasis is activated and Saryn lowering enemy max hp makes Limbo that much stronger. Throw in an Equinox, and you'll have Equinox's slash proc from her 4 lasting infinitely and her 4's damage being built up very quickly. Limbo blows up the majority of the enemies which builds up Equinox's 4, Equinox finishes off the stragglers. Rinse, Repeat.

Time based CC would solve any and all issues, infinite potential in 2 areas is not too many, id prefer volt/frost especially/nova etc to actually have scaling abilities instead of being dead in the water vs the many warframes who already scale.

6) Due to the nature of their kits, if Volt/Frost/Limbo are capable of scaling infinitely offensively and defensively why play any other frame? The problem is, most frames don't have abilities that even scale defensively, and if they do it doesn't provide them/priority targets damage immunity. Why pick Ember over Frost for example if Frost were to scale infinitely offensively and defensively and Ember was only capable of scaling offensively? She only has offensive abilities, where does her defensive scaling come from and what can she bring that Limbo doesn't already out-perform with his 4? That is why I am in favor of specialization and role placement among frames. If we had defined roles and focus schools that tailored to those roles I feel that would be a huge step in the right direction.

But not as far as i arbitrarily want.

Nidus at base vs level 200 corrupted can gain 5-14 stacks per (after 1 stomp hit 3 and after 3 stomps hit 4) and will gain stacks rapidly even after he stops stomping due to the game trying to catch up.

Equinox has sleep/maim (which stuns and bleeds). Covert lethality vs corrupt enemies will scale forever while she runs a daycare on the lower enemies she 1 shots the 200+ heavy bombard/gunners drastically sending her maim into the solar system all the while the sleeping mobs are also bleeding to death. This takes less than 20s to do.

A ranged sleep build (augment) or peace prov (80% slow and can sleep from afar) also doesnt negatively impact maim with CL. 

Nidus with range hits his 2 and massive quantities of enemies are absorbed rapidly and killed extremely fast even if they are armored while maggots CC easily.

7) I am very aware of their scaling potential. At no point though is Nidus capable of dealing damage to enemies based on their max health. At no point is Equinox completely immune to damage. I am aware Equinox scales infinitely via Covert Lethality and Maim. Limbo's 4 outclasses Maim simply because Limbo does have a charge up mechanic, which leaves CL as Equinox's only advantage vs Limbo come late game, where as Limbo nearly matches Equinox's offensive potential and leaves her in the dust defensively. Nidus has inconsistent CC (can't be used again until duration is over or until all enemies are killed), damage that will eventually falloff (its not % based, he runs into the same issue as atlas), and he does have invincibility but it is conditional upon him having stacks and his invincibility can't be shared with allies. Limbo just needs to roll, press 2, press 4. God bubble activated.

His kit is fine it just needs a time by % based adjustment which doubles as a damage nerf if you think about it.

8) As long as a frame with a kit as strong and unique as Limbo's has infinite scaling offensively, he will be OP. You mentioned Frost's 4 having armor stripping earlier, he has to sacrifice a lot to get to the point where it is 100% and while enemies are frozen they are immune to status effects. Limbo's 4 just requires range and scales forever based on that, not to mention giving him 10 energy for each enemy it kills which is used to fuel his other abilities which in turn gives himself and squadmates invincibility vs 2 out of the 4 factions for an infinite amount of time, and can solo stomp the Corpus infinitely as well with proper positioning/skilled gameplay.

 

 

Edited April 7, 2017 by Music4Therapy
spelling error

[Music4Therapy]

31 minutes ago, Lord_Terios said:

PS: in terms of functionality I love every aspect of Limbo now, even if you nerf the AoE nukes. The utility of being able to cata + stasis, Surge, then close. Is really cool for objective based missions especially when you take into account the draw back of not being able to access panels in the rift. Limbo feels like a Void Sorcerer and I love it.

I relate with your story, love pure melee and have played similar frames, which led me to love this rework of Limbo and to play him a ton since its inception. That said, I 100% agree with this statement. He is amazing without the massive AoE nuke, it isn't necessary and he is a top tier frame without it.

[-N7-Leonhart]

3 hours ago, Music4Therapy said:

The fact that this comment has most thumbs up than the detailed OP just shows what kind of community Warframe has lmao.

 

Anyways, good luck on the crusade @-N7-Leonhart, I agree 100% and have made a post regarding what I'd change as well.

Yeah, thanks. Limbo will go regardless, as it has always been the case so far, but I fear it will take far too long as usual. There is no more evidence that needs to be gathered, there are Limbos spamming Cataclysm everywhere at this moment, so the devs need to respond swiftly.

[Music4Therapy]

1 minute ago, -N7-Leonhart said:

Yeah, thanks. Limbo will go regardless, as it has always been the case so far, but I fear it will take far too long as usual. There is no more evidence that needs to be gathered, there are Limbos spamming Cataclysm everywhere at this moment, so the devs need to respond swiftly.

and I am one of those Limbo's, almost 100k kills on the week. It'd be one thing if it didn't scale, but it does. Infinitely. Not only that but the rest of his kit is so damn good. It'd be like giving Dayform Equinox Rhino's Stomp and Frost's bubble and then made it to where rolling makes you invincible. He is literally a god vs all the factions but the corrupted where the ancients + nullifiers together shut him down.

[-N7-Leonhart]

Just now, Music4Therapy said:

and I am one of those Limbo's, almost 100k kills on the week. It'd be one thing if it didn't scale, but it does. Infinitely. Not only that but the rest of his kit is so damn good. It'd be like giving Dayform Equinox Rhino's Stomp and Frost's bubble and then made it to where rolling makes you invincible. He is literally a god vs all the factions but the corrupted where the ancients + nullifiers together shut him down.

Yeah, funnily enough, the 1st player on the Leaderboards for kills per week and probably all those after him all used Limbo. It used to be always Mag before the nerf, now they just jumped to the even more convenient tool. Even though Corrupted are a pretty hard counter, it's not difficult to make everyone miserable by dominating the other factions, and just never playing Corrupted. 

[BlockBadger]

Don't mind me, just dealing 200%+ of units health in damage to half the map with an unpotatoed, unformaed frame... :)

I can't work out why people keep leaving the squad I'm in... I don't get that when I play other frames...

It's not like I ever stop people from compleating a wave by pressing 4, 2, 3 and 4 again. :)

[Cyphrus]

14 hours ago, SupremeDutchGamer said:

sigh.... first it was "ermagerd buff limbo he's useless" and now its "ermagerd nerf limbo hes to good"

 

could people just leave limbo alone? he was good in his old state, he's still good in his new state, and if you spam cataclysm you basically waste 75% of limbo's potential.

 

 

Agree leave Limbo alone stop complaining people jebus

[Music4Therapy]

Just now, Cyphrus said:

Agree leave Limbo alone stop complaining people jebus

Your mindset is a cancer to the Warframe community and if every player shared your mindset Warframe wouldn't have made as much progress as it has over the years.

[VentiGlondi]

Aight, I think I have some good feedback on the whole scaling damage thing: It was handled wrong. Which is pretty silly because the two recent frames do the scaling damage thing really well.

1. The scaling part of Cataclyms is unaffected by power strength. This is bad cause it allows you to completely disregard the negative stats of corrupted mods and build for maximum range and efficiency, while keeping your power.
2. If you look at Nidus, he doesn't just enter the mission and start destroying everything right away. He has to build up his mutation stacks first. Similarly, Octavia doesn't just throw the mallet and have everything die immediately - it first needs to build up from enemy damage. Limbo is missing that ramp-up.
3. This change takes attention away from Limbo's gimmick, which is putting stuff in and out of the rift, and turns him into a generic damage warframe.
4. It's a misplaced effort. There are damage-focused warframes that could use mechanics that allow them to scale, but instead you put it on a warframe that was advertised as the CC King way back

[Music4Therapy]

5 minutes ago, VentiGlondi said:

Aight, I think I have some good feedback on the whole scaling damage thing: It was handled wrong. Which is pretty silly because the two recent frames do the scaling damage thing really well.

1. The scaling part of Cataclyms is unaffected by power strength. This is bad cause it allows you to completely disregard the negative stats of corrupted mods and build for maximum range and efficiency, while keeping your power.
2. If you look at Nidus, he doesn't just enter the mission and start destroying everything right away. He has to build up his mutation stacks first. Similarly, Octavia doesn't just throw the mallet and have everything die immediately - it first needs to build up from enemy damage. Limbo is missing that ramp-up.
3. This change takes attention away from Limbo's gimmick, which is putting stuff in and out of the rift, and turns him into a generic damage warframe.
4. It's a misplaced effort. There are damage-focused warframes that could use mechanics that allow them to scale, but instead you put it on a warframe that was advertised as the CC King way back

So much this.

Edit: Though I believe his scaling on his 4 should be removed entirely. He is the king of CC and Defense, why does he need god tier damage too? lol

Edited April 8, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[TheBlackAce21]

Ok so I know there is a mega thread but honestly as a long time limbo player (second warframe I ever owned and I bought plat to buy him my second day) I feel the pressing need to get this off my chest and not get lost in a 70 page thread.

My first thoughts are that while I will miss old Limbo's play style and better finite control of what enters the rift, I do enjoy everything that has been added to him thus far. Stasis seems well balanced when you take into consideration nullifiers and the projectile cap against anything that shoots into it, although it is a bit silly CC on infested maps. The real problem is his ability to deal damage and CC the whole room at the same time with the same build.

I feel like a 10% per enemy scaling ability is too much....period....it is great to have scaling damage but that much seems way too strong. I feel like a 1% per enemy that scales off power strength would be a better middle ground with maybe "slightly" higher base damage along with it to compensate at lower levels/less enemies spawning. This will provide scaling damage but it won't be overwhelming with a max range build unless you sacrifice the duration (thus reducing his CC ability).

I am so afraid that DE is going to turn around and remove things from the kit they just handed limbo to make him truely useful and dynamic because of how strong he is and I don't want to see that, I think with a change to his fourth damage as described above he would retain a lot of power and be in a healthier state compared to other frames.

That is all I had to say. Carry on.

 

::edit:: whoever moved this.....screw you

Edited April 8, 2017 by TheBlackAce21

[Lord_Terios]

30 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

So much this.

Edit: Though I believe his scaling on his 4 should be removed entirely. He is the king of CC and Defense, why does he need god tier damage too? lol

I really wouldn't go so far to remove scaling altogether, since that should be a goal set for ALL warframes. But it should be affected by power strength buffs and reductions. Theres no reason why someone shouldn't be allowed to build for AoE nukes, but it should require more resources (generalizing definition of resources from mod slots, to energy usage)

Edited April 8, 2017 by Lord_Terios

[VentiGlondi]

3 minutes ago, Lord_Terios said:

I really wouldn't go so far to remove scaling altogether, since that should be a goal set for ALL warframes. But it should be affected by power strength buffs and reductions. Theres no reason why someone shouldn't be allowed to build for AoE nukes, but it should require more resources (generalizing definition of resources from mod slots, to energy usage)

Well, you could say Limbo scales regardless of the nuke, since he has decent CC now, and CC scales infinitely.

[Lord_Terios]

10 minutes ago, VentiGlondi said:

Well, you could say Limbo scales regardless of the nuke, since he has decent CC now, and CC scales infinitely.

Which means he scales in some aspects and not all aspects limiting diversity options. Meaning he would ONLY be a CC frame, and there would be no reason to spec for anything other than range and possibly duration. (admittedly that is the case now.)

If that is the goal then I guess don't let me stand in the way. But I think more options is much more desirable.

It would be nice to allow players to spec for damage if they choose.

Edited April 8, 2017 by Lord_Terios

[Music4Therapy]

10 minutes ago, Lord_Terios said:

Which means he scales in some aspects and not all aspects limiting diversity options. Meaning he would ONLY be a CC frame, and there would be no reason to spec for anything other than range and possibly duration. (admittedly that is the case now.)

If that is the goal then I guess don't let me stand in the way. But I think more options is much more desirable.

It would be nice to allow players to spec for damage if they choose.

But he wouldn't ONLY be a CC frame. He is one of only 4 frames that are capable of defending an objective, the other 3 being Frost, Volt, and Atlas. What utility his other abilities provide is what should separate him from the other 3, not god tier infinitely scaling damage. And this is why I say he would be just fine without the damage on his 4, no other frame can create a defensive field that instantly rhino stomps any enemy that enters.

 

EDIT: If anything, give back his old multiplier from his 3 and apply it to all enemies affected by Rift Surge. FE: All enemies hit by Rift Surge take X times more damage.

Edited April 8, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[VentiGlondi]

6 minutes ago, Lord_Terios said:

It would be nice to allow players to spec for damage if they choose.

I guess, but as I mentioned earlier, the problem is that Cataclysm deals damage unaffected by power strength, so you don't really get a choice of not speccing into damage.

The only real way not to spec into damage is to deliberately minimize your power range and that's just a really odd design choice, isn't it?