[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread

[Music4Therapy]

Just now, Starwake said:

I disagree and agree. Its all in the speed it gets larger and start size and the balance between it. I like how it works now and think the damage scales well and is not supper effective with heavy armor units but by getting rid of trash mobs.

And this would synergize better with the augment mod allowing it to grow even more or stay open longer.

I just thought it would he cool to get a really large bubble over time allowing for duration to help with range rather than needed a max range build helping diverse modding alittle. It would also work alot better with the augment mod alowing it to stay open longer and larger with increased duration. Allowin the range increasing to get more enemies to do more damage.

It would also synergies with abilities well by getting more enemies in the rift to be effected by his abilities. 

Either way I love the rework but personally hate the global nuke spam build. I like to stop time and get those head shots. I just think its im some way should ramp up in damage and be less rewarding to make a spam 4 build.

Read my last comment, the one after the one you quoted. I am just like you, I believe his kit is top tier even outside of his massive nuke which I believe is largely unnecessary.

[(PSN)psycofang]

Looks like they are trying to go for psn cert by the end of this week. Lets hope they dont bull rush this into a bad accident.

[-InV-igo95862]

Considering that Banish is now 10 times more annoying to use with whole "can't banish while in rift", nuke Limbo is the only way to go.

Maybe reverse the banish direction? (make that it pulls enemies on same plane as you)

[xSunx]

I'm tired from games with limbo. Now I just leave the squad if there is one.

Limbo's restriction powers should just apply for himself and mobs, not for other players ¬______¬

 

_{this is not obvious?}

Spoiler

 

 

[-BM-Mitz]

7 hours ago, -InV-igo95862 said:

Considering that Banish is now 10 times more annoying to use with whole "can't banish while in rift", nuke Limbo is the only way to go.

Maybe reverse the banish direction? (make that it pulls enemies on same plane as you)

With the third power, if you're banished along with enemies and unbanish them, you get an aoe banish for them and nearby mobs right?

With that you can bring people with you, just need a bit more thought than a target cast to compensate the AoE buff to banish I guess :/

 

In any case I'm super annoyed with max Range insta detonate Limbo players. The instantaneous murder of kuva flood grineer within 40m is kinda BS and I'm waiting for the balance patch. 

[low1991]

On 4/10/2017 at 6:18 AM, DinendalMinyatur said:

So it will be just another Radial Disarm? We already have the same ability on another frame.

Weaker version of radial disarm. (loki' #4 is forever, in a wide AOE. While Limbo '#2 + #4 freeze projectile in the selected AOE, and expire earlier if hit the bullet threshold [3,000 projectile from WIKI], if enemy move out the AOE, they will resume firing).

[DinendalMinyatur]

12 minutes ago, low1991 said:

Weaker version of radial disarm. (loki' #4 is forever, in a wide AOE. While Limbo '#2 + #4 freeze projectile in the selected AOE, and expire earlier if hit the bullet threshold [3,000 projectile from WIKI], if enemy move out the AOE, they will resume firing).

Nah bad idea. It will really really weaken that ability. Not to mention it will be practically useless against infested and as i said we already have a disarming ability. Also it's even more annoying than its current version as you will still force everyone to melee because as now projectiles stop but when stasis ends they still hit enemy. Now anyone dares to use a gun wouldnt be able to hit anyone cuz they are moving.

Instead make stasis a channeled ability with a max enemy cap, remove projectile freezing and it wont be a permanent CC. You have to be careful with your timing on stasis.

Edited April 11, 2017 by DinendalMinyatur

[-BM-Mitz]

I'd like to being this thread here, I agree with it's suggestion on solving the nuke issue:

 

[low1991]

1 minute ago, DinendalMinyatur said:

Nah bad idea. It will really really weaken that ability. Not to mention it will be practically useless against infested and as i said we already have a disarming ability.

Some ability need to be weaken for the sake of balances. (ie, Limbo' #2+#4 is totally viable against infested, as not all shoots projectile to end it earlier). Like how Mag'#2 is only viable against corpus, but got nerf'ed and so-called 'balanced' around all factions. In comparison, Limbo'#2+#4 combo can be put above old-vauban Bastile, where locking down an entire area provoke an heavy nerf bat. 

Remember, it's will be a double-sided ability. ALL projectile will be stasis'ed.

Regarding your 'we already have disarming ability', So i suppose to say, "we already got Massive AOE CC ability"?

1 minute ago, DinendalMinyatur said:

Instead make stasis a channeled ability with a max enemy cap, remove projectile freezing and it wont be a permanent CC. You have to be careful with your timing on stasis.

I dont understand this part. Worn't your suggestion even weaken Stasis more then my suggestion do? I suppose as per the qoute above, i should be saying "we already got a ability that CC certain number of enemies"? (ie, Nerkoz'#2, Vban'#3)

[DinendalMinyatur]

5 minutes ago, low1991 said:

Some ability need to be weaken for the sake of balances. (ie, Limbo' #2+#4 is totally viable against infested, as not all shoots projectile to end it earlier). Like how Mag'#2 is only viable against corpus, but got nerf'ed and so-called 'balanced' around all factions. In comparison, Limbo'#2+#4 combo can be put above old-vauban Bastile, where locking down an entire area provoke an heavy nerf bat. 

Remember, it's will be a double-sided ability. ALL projectile will be stasis'ed.

Regarding your 'we already have disarming ability', So i suppose to say, "we already got Massive AOE CC ability"?

I like keeping disarm unique to Loki and being unique in abilities. Also CC is a more general term than disarm. Disarm is  just one form of many CC methods.

Can you give me an example how it will be viable against infested? Without a few exceptions all infested enemies deal melee damage. How its going to CC infested?

Also how do you plan to play on gun-only sortie missions?

8 minutes ago, low1991 said:

I dont understand this part. Worn't your suggestion even weaken Stasis more then my suggestion do? I suppose as per the qoute above, i should be saying "we already got a ability that CC certain number of enemies"? (ie, Nerkoz'#2, Vban'#3)

Nope your suggestion would even more annoy teammates than mine. You force everyone to melee and people won't like it. I give a quick CC to mop up enemies, also not being a hassle for teammates.

[Insane-Mana]

On 7-4-2017 at 1:38 AM, -N7-Leonhart said:

Not seeing the problem on itself is subjective and fine by all means, but his 4th is definitely a nuke, as it has powerful and infinite scaling.

not realy

Cant kill heavy's or eximus units with 4, even if there are like 100 normal mobs in range.

[low1991]

8 minutes ago, DinendalMinyatur said:

I like keeping disarm unique to Loki and being unique in abilities. Also CC is a more general term than disarm. Disarm is  just one form of many CC methods.

Can you give me an example how it will be viable against infested? Without a few exceptions all infested enemies deal melee damage. How its going to CC infested?

Ohhh i see.... So 'you' want it to be only unique to Loki, but tough luck. Nyx' ability can disarm (her passive). And fyi, no ability at anytime must only belongs to one frame. hence, DE reuse, reduce, recycle abilities. (save work).

8 minutes ago, DinendalMinyatur said:

Can you give me an example how it will be viable against infested? Without a few exceptions all infested enemies deal melee damage. How its going to CC infested?

Vban' vortex. Nyx' Chaos(cancel healer aura). In fact what ever ability that does CC & affect not only range weaponry are almost viable in infested. And btw, not all infested does ONLY melee (charger' split, Infested osprey, Ancient' hock, MOA; spore, etc).

8 minutes ago, DinendalMinyatur said:

Also how do you plan to play on gun-only sortie missions?

Let me ask you this question. Do you bring a High Str, Low-PE build frame to a energy reduction sortie? No you dont. Same for your question above. For gun-only sortie in infested sortie, you bring the next alternative, not something which will hinder your capability to win the mission.

8 minutes ago, DinendalMinyatur said:

Nope your suggestion would even more annoy teammates than mine. You force everyone to melee and people won't like it. I give a quick CC to mop up enemies, also not being a hassle for teammates.

Many thing to say regarding this 'annoy' part, every subjective. My 'annoy' =/= your 'annoy' 

Other example of 'annoy' to me: Like how Volt put a max-str speed buff on you?, or a Frost put a SG blocking your range weaponry?, or how visual effect eat-up my FPS? or nova'wormhole to warp you back to a certain spot? Back to topic, doesn't now Stasis + #4 annoys all? (Reminder, Stasis need #4 or a rift'ed enemy to work), at least, currently there's a bullet cap, cancelling when hit. 

Oh ya... what's the purpose of having a chat, when someone annoyed because of someone else action, don't they chat in squad chat? or direct blacklist? Might as well remove chat system.

[Music4Therapy]

14 hours ago, Music4Therapy said:

If anything, why not bring old Cataclysm back along with the damage multiplier of his old Rift Surge. Meaning, Cataclysm goes back to its pre-rework form but make it to where every enemy effected by Rift Surge takes X times more damage. The big issue players had with his old 3 was that it was selfish, this would bring that multiplier back but make it squadwide. Instead of having massive damage in the form of a nuke, he'd be able to allow all members of the squad to deal increased damage to Rift Surged enemies.

 

[S0V3REiGN]

On 4/9/2017 at 6:20 PM, ApocalypticFlameFury said:

I hate how people abuse things with a frame I love playing as so much.......it yields so much community cancer. Why can't people just play legit? Limbo shouldn't have to be nerfed. People need to play fair. It's a cooperative game. Work with the people instead of trying to plague them.

It's simply put meta, players will always abuse rather than utilize powerfully abilities. In the end it's DEs fault for not properly play testing their warframes and they did delay his rework for a few weeks, I am not sure how they missed this. Cataclysm is too strong right now, I ran a bunch of missions last night with 250 range, max effeciancy and natural talent, it was even close. It's almost worse than old school miasma or Baldestorm.

[DinendalMinyatur]

19 minutes ago, low1991 said:

Ohhh i see.... So 'you' want it to be only unique to Loki, but tough luck. Nyx' ability can disarm (her passive). And fyi, no ability at anytime must only belongs to one frame. hence, DE reuse, reduce, recycle abilities. (save work).

Passive =/=  active ability.

Yes I want it. It's my personal opinion and I share it on a feedback forum. Problem?

20 minutes ago, low1991 said:

Vban' vortex. Nyx' Chaos(cancel healer aura). In fact what ever ability that does CC & affect not only range weaponry are almost viable in infested.

Wut? I asked for how stasis will be viable against infested. Not other CC's

21 minutes ago, low1991 said:

And btw, not all infested does ONLY melee (charger' split, Infested osprey, Ancient' hock, MOA; spore, etc

Perhaps you should really carefully read my post before posting a reply.

1 hour ago, DinendalMinyatur said:

Can you give me an example how it will be viable against infested? Without a few exception all infested enemies deal melee damage. How its going to CC infested?

 

 

26 minutes ago, low1991 said:

Let me ask you this question. Do you bring a High Str, Low-PE build frame to a energy reduction sortie? No you dont. Same for your question above. For gun-only sortie in infested sortie, you bring the next alternative, not something which will hinder your capability to win the mission.

You can mod str duration efficency according to mission yes? But you can't mod a skill to change its mechanics unless that skill have an augment. (And stasis don't have an augment right now)

Why handicap a frame while you can tweak it to make objectively less annoying?

29 minutes ago, low1991 said:

Many thing to say regarding this 'annoy' part, every subjective. My 'annoy' =/= your 'annoy' 

Other example of 'annoy' to me: Like how Volt put a max-str speed buff on you?, or a Frost put a SG blocking your range weaponry?, or how visual effect eat-up my FPS? or nova'wormhole to warp you back to a certain spot? Back to topic, doesn't now Stasis + #4 annoys all? (Reminder, Stasis need #4 or a rift'ed enemy to work), at least, currently there's a bullet cap, cancelling when hit. 

No it is very objective. Your suggestion will interfere with others gameplay when you force them to play melee. Maybe you're a geniune player and wouldn't troll but how are you going to deal with trolls with max range cataclysm preventing everyone from using weapons? 

 

33 minutes ago, low1991 said:

Oh ya... what's the purpose of having a chat, when someone annoyed because of someone else action, don't they chat in squad chat? or direct blacklist? Might as well remove chat system.

Nice Straw man you pulled there

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

11 hours ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

Looks like they are trying to go for psn cert by the end of this week. Lets hope they dont bull rush this into a bad accident.

If that's the case, I expect no significant changes to Limbo's rework will take place. Yay fun. 

[-CM-NineFingers]

7 hours ago, xSunx said:

I'm tired from games with limbo. Now I just leave the squad if there is one.

Limbo's restriction powers should just apply for himself and mobs, not for other players ¬______¬

 

_{this is not obvious?}

  Hide contents

 

 

Some players actually know there are benefits in using the rift too, and not just blindly hate it. That's why it's used on allies too. But I would be in favor of making his 1 only target enemies or allies, depending on where you aim, cause banishing two bombards, the defense target and an ally is not as useful.

Edited April 11, 2017 by -CM-Limbo

[yefzael_dm]

5 minutes ago, -CM-Limbo said:

Some players actually know there are benefits in using the rift too, and not just blindly hate it. That's why it's used on allies too. But I would be in favor of making his 1 only target enemies or allies, depending on where you aim, cause banishing two bombards, the defense target and an ally is not as useful.

"banishing two bombards, the defense target and an ally is not as useful." lolololol that would be funny though hahaha

 

but u can use limbo's second ability right?

Edited April 11, 2017 by yefzael_dm

[(PSN)psycofang]

Ill just solo as usual because people whine.

 

Funny part yesterday people were begging me to use cataclysm to nuke the level 200 grineer, i wouldn't because it was becoming detrimental and didnt want to explain why i cant nuke armored targets.

 

[malekas]

25 minutes ago, -CM-Limbo said:

Some players actually know there are benefits in using the rift too, and not just blindly hate it. That's why it's used on allies too. But I would be in favor of making his 1 only target enemies or allies, depending on where you aim, cause banishing two bombards, the defense target and an ally is not as useful.

Kind of what I was thinking. If your reticle is over and ally It's a single target. If your reticle is not pointed at an ally it's an AOE that does not affect allies.

[Newnight]

48 minutes ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

Ill just solo as usual because people whine.

 

Funny part yesterday people were begging me to use cataclysm to nuke the level 200 grineer, i wouldn't because it was becoming detrimental and didnt want to explain why i cant nuke armored targets.

 

Ik the feeling, the ability just becomes fairly useless at high level ( like most things). It is a very good ability still.

[low1991]

2 hours ago, DinendalMinyatur said:

Passive =/=  active ability.

Yes I want it. It's my personal opinion and I share it on a feedback forum. Problem?

Personal opinion yes, this is feedback.

2 hours ago, DinendalMinyatur said:

Wut? I asked for how stasis will be viable against infested. Not other CC's

just test in simcularim w infested moa & corpus tech. Projectile dont get freeze by #2+#4. But the fact the enemies outside of rift worn't be able to damage you, in rift remains. #2 relies on #1 or #4 to work. And Stasis work when enemy in rift, so projectile will get freeze. It's a support ability, like Old-#3 where buff damage while in rift. And not all ability (atm) are viable, ie Zephyr'#2.

2 hours ago, DinendalMinyatur said:

You can mod str duration efficency according to mission yes? But you can't mod a skill to change its mechanics unless that skill have an augment. (And stasis don't have an augment right now)

Why handicap a frame while you can tweak it to make objectively less annoying?

Question to you, why must every mission you choose to play must be Limbo with his/her Stasis on? There are 3 other ability for reason. And multiple frame to choose from. (assuming you got them unlocked)

2 hours ago, DinendalMinyatur said:

No it is very objective. Your suggestion will interfere with others gameplay when you force them to play melee. Maybe you're a geniune player and wouldn't troll but how are you going to deal with trolls with max range cataclysm preventing everyone from using weapons? 

Like how is my feedback/suggestion gonna force them to melee, ANY difference from the current Stasis which ALSO force all players to melee? Same for the 2nd part.

2 hours ago, DinendalMinyatur said:

Nice Straw man you pulled there

Me No Understand 

[xSunx]

1 hour ago, -CM-Limbo said:

Some players actually know there are benefits in using the rift too, and not just blindly hate it. That's why it's used on allies too. But I would be in favor of making his 1 only target enemies or allies, depending on where you aim, cause banishing two bombards, the defense target and an ally is not as useful.

what a meh

sure there are benefits, I think his powers are great and super nice. But what you said was as a joke , "ally is not as useful", is real now. Prevent teammate to do damage or stop their actions is totally wrong.

"I will kill that bombard! I start to shot him and suddenly all stops, I lose my time and ammo"  hell no... 

[xSunx]

2 minutes ago, xSunx said:

what a meh

sure there are benefits, I think his powers are great and super nice. But what you said was as a joke , "ally is not as useful", is real now. Prevent teammate to do damage or stop their actions is totally wrong.

"I will kill that bombard! I start to shot him and suddenly all stops, I lose my time and ammo"  hell no... 

I forgot to say, multiply this for 20 and you will get so upset and blind as I do

Edited April 11, 2017 by xSunx

[DinendalMinyatur]

1 hour ago, low1991 said:

Personal opinion yes, this is feedback.

This forum is full with personal opinions on how to rework skills and such.

 

1 hour ago, low1991 said:

just test in simcularim w infested moa & corpus tech. Projectile dont get freeze by #2+#4. But the fact the enemies outside of rift worn't be able to damage you, in rift remains. #2 relies on #1 or #4 to work. And Stasis work when enemy in rift, so projectile will get freeze. It's a support ability, like Old-#3 where buff damage while in rift. And not all ability (atm) are viable, ie Zephyr'#

. You know you'll get swarmed by every single unit in a real mission. Not to mention ancient eximi, chargers etc.

1 hour ago, low1991 said:

Question to you, why must every mission you choose to play must be Limbo with his/her Stasis on? There are 3 other ability for reason.

 Question to you. How do you think you can survive on high lvls?. I don't think you can be this ignorant about Limbo. before rework 4 was a death sentence on high lvl missions if you used it offensively.

Pre-rework it was only safe to use to protect defense targets. You could cast cata to protect target.  Go outside, rift walk and pick targets one by one.

Now after rework you cant banish targets as long as you're in different planes also banishing single a target is really hard now. You can use surge to banish multpile enemies without getting out of rift but that is very risky without a form of CC. Long story short Limbo is somewhat dependent on Stasis for survival. (Unless you want to sit in rift plane and do nothing)

1 hour ago, low1991 said:

And multiple frame to choose from. (assuming you got them unlocked)

Oh noes I got only Limbo to play Well we're talking about Limbo rework here so... Playing with another frame is irrelevant to our discussion

1 hour ago, low1991 said:

Like how is my feedback/suggestion gonna force them to melee, ANY difference from the current Stasis which ALSO force all players to melee? Same for the 2nd part.

Re-read my previous post, perhaps you'll understand. I don't want to repeat myself over and over again.

1 hour ago, low1991 said:

Me No Understand 

A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man".

Regarding to this:

4 hours ago, low1991 said:

Oh ya... what's the purpose of having a chat, when someone annoyed because of someone else action, don't they chat in squad chat? or direct blacklist? Might as well remove chat system.

Edited April 11, 2017 by DinendalMinyatur