Dear Warframe Devs, <3 (An Open Letter on Operators)

[Fallowsthorn]

Thank you. Thank you so much. I nearly cried at the end of The Second Dream when I saw the player character. I don't think you could have made me happier if you'd actively tried.

See, I'm disabled. I have never, ever, ever seen someone who looks like me in a video game before, and had kind of resigned myself to it never happening. Who wants to play a video game where the PC can't leave their house most days? can't get out of bed sometimes, even? Hell, I wouldn't, that sounds ridiculously boring. But that's more or less how the Operator has to function, albeit with magic and technology to make the rest of the game playable. Looking at the Operator is like looking into a mirror, down to the same damn body type.

(As an aside, I'm also nonbinary, and love whoever was lazy enough to make one model that was sort of male and sort of female and sort of neither and call it good, instead of the godforsaken ubiquitous - and usually exaggerated - male/female models. I am not kidding when I say the Operator's body looks exactly like mine.)

I don't know if this is how most people feel when they play video games, when and if they see themselves in the characters. Very likely my reaction is - disproportionate, because it's not something I've experienced before. It feels euphoric. This is not me making something up to make myself feel better or make the story more interesting, it is 100% canon that the Operator is very limited in their range of physical movement and must rely on assistive devices - because that's what the Warframes are, that's what the transference suit is - to be able to interact with the world.

(I hesitate at calling the Operator "disabled" because, well, they're pretty much not. They're the new normal. They're disabled the way a human who doesn't have wings is disabled.)

So thank you. You have inadvertently given me something very precious and very personal, and I cannot express in words how profoundly grateful I am for that. This is what keeps me coming back to Warframe: that somebody on your team, maybe not out loud, maybe not even on purpose, thought that someone like me would and could and should be able to do these fantastic, amazing things. I've been here since the game first started and I'm not going anywhere anytime soon.

Space ninjas rule.

[oneforsaken]

The emotions you got are the only reason i'm still playing the game. The lore is quite nice and i just can't resist a smile that a new fellow tenno makes. 
Welcome to the space ninjas bro. If it weren't people like you i would stop playing. And congrats on doing the quest solo, these days people just use the chat and forums as instant messenger, none is actually bothering playing the game. And until you get to the very high MR numbers the game is actually really fun.

You made a realization, that's a bit soapy but it does prove what is this game for, and what the Developers worked for! :) 

[Fallowsthorn]

I didn't actually do most of the quest solo, had a friend help me with a lot of it because I'd taken a break from the game for a while and damage 2.0 was implemented in the meantime, so I kind of floundered for a little bit.

I've been playing for a while, but thanks for the warm welcome anyway! :)

[Cyriann]

Fellow Tenno that is a wonderful story to hear of and I believe that what is to come in your experience as one of us might surprise you, and I hope it will in a good way. 

If we meet throughout the Solar system I bid you goodbye, if not farewell on your growth young mind. 

Edited April 6, 2017 by Cyriann

[PrVonTuckIII]

I do agree. Despite it's shortness, it was a very emotion-laden quest. Hopefully the next quest, revealing the nature of the Warframes, will be equally emotional.

[DaftMeat]

 

[Insizer]

I don't think I've ever heard people call the operator disabled.  They are just weak considering whatever muscle atrophy occurs over eons of inactivity, and they have nothing in and of themselves, save their void magic, to help them do their everyday "job" which is dynamic, dangerous, and intense.  Their bodies are just weak and even if they weren't, their bodies would still be unfit for their extreme jobs hence they use puppets to do what their bodies could never hope of doing normally.

[TheNextDecade]

9 minutes ago, Insizer said:

I don't think I've ever heard people call the operator disabled.  They are just weak considering whatever muscle atrophy occurs over eons of inactivity, and they have nothing in and of themselves, save their void magic, to help them do their everyday "job" which is dynamic, dangerous, and intense.  Their bodies are just weak and even if they weren't, their bodies would still be unfit for their extreme jobs hence they use puppets to do what their bodies could never hope of doing normally.

I mean, isn't that basically the same as disabled? You're not only considered disabled if you were born with it. You can become disabled as well, and atrophied muscles are quite a reason.

In fact I looked it up, muscle atrophy is officially considered a disability.

 

Never the less, towards the OP. Welcome to the world of Warframe. I never made this connection myself, but boy oh boy does it make sense. Thank you for pointing it out.

Edited April 6, 2017 by TheNextDecade

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

interesting perspective indeed! thanks for sharing, also glad for you for getting such a positive emotional response from it. :)

[Fallowsthorn]

Y'all, I've been playing this game since 2013. The welcome wishes are much appreciated but a little... belated. ETA: I should clarify that I didn't just finish The Second Dream, either. This had been... collating for a while.

 

34 minutes ago, TheNextDecade said:

I mean, isn't that basically the same as disabled? You're not only considered disabled if you were born with it. You can become disabled as well, and atrophied muscles are quite a reason.

In fact I looked it up, muscle atrophy is officially considered a disability.

 

Never the less, towards the OP. Welcome to the world of Warframe. I never made this connection myself, but boy oh boy does it make sense. Thank you for pointing it out.

 

I think of it this way: disability means exactly that. I am unable to do something that is expected of me to function daily in our society. The Operator isn't, because everyone is at the same level of ability as the Operators (I forget how many Tenno there are canonically, but it's clearly "plenty"), and regardless, their society is constructed such that they aren't expected to do six impossible things before breakfast. In this sense, the Operator isn't disabled.

In the sense of "they can't effing stand up on their own," yeah, they're disabled and the Warframe is the most surreal assistive tech ever. I'm just a worldbuilding nerd and really wish I had one of these things, god.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Fallowsthorn

[Insizer]

2 hours ago, TheNextDecade said:

I mean, isn't that basically the same as disabled? You're not only considered disabled if you were born with it. You can become disabled as well, and atrophied muscles are quite a reason.

In fact I looked it up, muscle atrophy is officially considered a disability.

Yes, I'm more than aware disabilities don't only come from birth.  I may be stupid, but I'm not that stupid.  I also know that atrophy is a disability, but to me that means more severe cases.  The operators are clearly able to move and do basically anything your average person could do physically.  They might have a bit less endurance and lift a bit less, but nothing much.  To me, as someone with an actual disability, what the operators have isn't a disability as it doesn't significantly take away from their physical or mental capabilities.  Sure, right out of the pod I could see it hitting that 'disability threshold', but not by the time they get to the War Within.

Perhaps I shouldn't have said atrophy, rather something else like "more significant muscle growth never occurred due to their extremely sedentary lifestyle" or something.  I kind of tossed out the atrophy thing as something of a small joke.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Insizer

[(PSN)MastrCruu]

Dude, why are you pulling on my tear gaskets? I hope they notice this.

[JalakBali]

The reveal of the Operator was kind of expected for me although at the time I wondered if they had the guts to make the Operator "not mainstream". I was already theorizing that the warframes are remotely controlled but I was unsure if they're going to put a face on the controller and whether they would actually do something not mainstream popular with it. And they did. I also noted that some players complained that they don't want to be a magic space child and they wanted to be a space ninja. But every single "damaged yet badass power fantasy" has been done to death. I can understand most wanted to be Genji because being a tortured and damaged yet capable warrior is everybody's fantasy. Yet I am glad DE went somewhere not as comfortable, that the protagonist is a manipulated child soldier with a broken body, playing with "dolls".

[Fallowsthorn]

3 hours ago, Insizer said:

Yes, I'm more than aware disabilities don't only come from birth.  I may be stupid, but I'm not that stupid.  I also know that atrophy is a disability, but to me that means more severe cases.  The operators are clearly able to move and do basically anything your average person could do physically.  They might have a bit less endurance and lift a bit less, but nothing much.  To me, as someone with an actual disability, what the operators have isn't a disability as it doesn't significantly take away from their physical or mental capabilities.  Sure, right out of the pod I could see it hitting that 'disability threshold', but not by the time they get to the War Within.

Perhaps I shouldn't have said atrophy, rather something else like "more significant muscle growth never occurred due to their extremely sedentary lifestyle" or something.  I kind of tossed out the atrophy thing as something of a small joke.

Uh, are we remembering the same quest? The one where you literally pick yourself up because the Operator has almost no gross motor control? Idk what your Operator does but mine only ever moves their head a bit when I go to play with the focus. It's not like we ever see them doing PT.

There isn't a "disability threshold," unless you're trying to convince the government to help you not starve to death. There are different kinds and degrees of disability, but no one has to be "disabled enough" to count. The only requirement is "can't do any given basic task that the average human can do." Because that standard is different within the game for the Operators, I don't think of them as disabled per se, but within our society they definitely would be.

I would also argue that the Operator is nonverbal, lacks fine motor control, and very likely has PTSD and all those other fun trauma-related goodies, so, y'know.

And outside of the fictional lore - I get the impulse to gatekeep, I really do, because how can you not be defensive after years of being told you're faking it and just need to suck it up? And then some bozo comes in and looks perfectly healthy and clearly can function normally and they want to call themselves disabled!? But the only thing that ever produces, and ever has produced, is a lot of exhausted disabled people who quietly wish they were "really disabled" so they wouldn't be expected to do things they can't. I want to stay away from both playing Dr. Internet and Who Has It Worse? because neither of those will ever go anywhere good, but there is no One True Disability.

(Also, "extremely sedentary lifestyle"? I mean I know those are the correct actual words but they were in a coma, not lying on the couch watching TV.)

[Angrados]

1 hour ago, Fallowsthorn said:

Uh, are we remembering the same quest? The one where you literally pick yourself up because the Operator has almost no gross motor control? Idk what your Operator does but mine only ever moves their head a bit when I go to play with the focus. It's not like we ever see them doing PT.

There isn't a "disability threshold," unless you're trying to convince the government to help you not starve to death. There are different kinds and degrees of disability, but no one has to be "disabled enough" to count. The only requirement is "can't do any given basic task that the average human can do." Because that standard is different within the game for the Operators, I don't think of them as disabled per se, but within our society they definitely would be.

I would also argue that the Operator is nonverbal, lacks fine motor control, and very likely has PTSD and all those other fun trauma-related goodies, so, y'know.

And outside of the fictional lore - I get the impulse to gatekeep, I really do, because how can you not be defensive after years of being told you're faking it and just need to suck it up? And then some bozo comes in and looks perfectly healthy and clearly can function normally and they want to call themselves disabled!? But the only thing that ever produces, and ever has produced, is a lot of exhausted disabled people who quietly wish they were "really disabled" so they wouldn't be expected to do things they can't. I want to stay away from both playing Dr. Internet and Who Has It Worse? because neither of those will ever go anywhere good, but there is no One True Disability.

(Also, "extremely sedentary lifestyle"? I mean I know those are the correct actual words but they were in a coma, not lying on the couch watching TV.)

Allow me to start by saying I understand your outrage. In your position, I'd probably feel something similar.

Now, let me ask the question: Have you played through The War Within yet? There's some pretty radical shakeups with that quest that may challenge what you're asserting about the Operator. 

Also, did you know you can toggle on Operator speech and voice in the options? I'd recommend trying it for a little bit before you get tired of the same lines repeated ad nauseum.

As for severe psychological trauma, well, that's also touched on in The War Within. If you haven't reached that point yet, I highly, highly recommend making that a priority. Maybe after doing Octavia's Anthem, which is probably my favorite quest at the moment just due to the end of it. 

The rest of it I have no right to address, so I'm not going to. Hopefully this helps you look at it in a slightly different light--not a correct or incorrect one, per se, but different.

[(XBOX)DeluxeKnight831]

this was so touching. word of advice, the war within will ruin this for you eventually :(

i hope a dev sees this 

[(XBOX)DeluxeKnight831]

also why are we arguing over what a disability is ? why can't we just come together for once without being total A******s ?

[(PSN)MastrCruu]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)DeluxeKnight831 said:

also why are we arguing over what a disability is ? why can't we just come together for once without being total A******s ?

Damn straight. Not sure why some people feel the need to be a &#036;&amp;*^s!

[Insizer]

20 hours ago, Fallowsthorn said:

Uh, are we remembering the same quest? The one where you literally pick yourself up because the Operator has almost no gross motor control? Idk what your Operator does but mine only ever moves their head a bit when I go to play with the focus. It's not like we ever see them doing PT.

There isn't a "disability threshold," unless you're trying to convince the government to help you not starve to death. There are different kinds and degrees of disability, but no one has to be "disabled enough" to count. The only requirement is "can't do any given basic task that the average human can do." Because that standard is different within the game for the Operators, I don't think of them as disabled per se, but within our society they definitely would be.

I would also argue that the Operator is nonverbal, lacks fine motor control, and very likely has PTSD and all those other fun trauma-related goodies, so, y'know.

And outside of the fictional lore - I get the impulse to gatekeep, I really do, because how can you not be defensive after years of being told you're faking it and just need to suck it up? And then some bozo comes in and looks perfectly healthy and clearly can function normally and they want to call themselves disabled!? But the only thing that ever produces, and ever has produced, is a lot of exhausted disabled people who quietly wish they were "really disabled" so they wouldn't be expected to do things they can't. I want to stay away from both playing Dr. Internet and Who Has It Worse? because neither of those will ever go anywhere good, but there is no One True Disability.

(Also, "extremely sedentary lifestyle"? I mean I know those are the correct actual words but they were in a coma, not lying on the couch watching TV.)

1. You mean the quest War Within, that your operator runs through everything on their own?
2. Yes, there is a disability threshold, at least to me.  Everything is a spectrum.  At what point does any negative condition become a disability?
3. We are not talking about nonverbal or PTSD.
4. That is not what it produces at all.  It is all a matter of setting the 'threshold' "correctly".  If they are not hampered to any meaningful degree, if they can perform what is expected, and can perform it more or less as well as everyone else, then they don't have a disability.  I understand the flaw in this argument as it comes off as being based on entirely subjective definitions, but that is why disabilities, especially mental ones, are handled on a case by case basis.  I do agree that playing Dr. Internet and such are silly endeavors and detract from this thread.
5. Yeah, I was trying to come up with an alternative definition and didn't have much time to do it, I was grimacing while typing it. lol

Anyways, I'm not going to talk about this anymore.  I respect your opinion, and you seem reasonable enough that if we were to continue that we would come to closer conclusions, but I don't want to hijack this thread and completely derail it, I also don't care enough to debate this further tbh.

[(XBOX)AntiCaesar]

Really good story mate, glad it brought emotions to you. (Mate is a gender-neutral term)

[1TheOneWhoKnocks]

On 4/6/2017 at 0:56 PM, Fallowsthorn said:

Thank you. Thank you so much. I nearly cried at the end of The Second Dream when I saw the player character. I don't think you could have made me happier if you'd actively tried.

See, I'm disabled. I have never, ever, ever seen someone who looks like me in a video game before, and had kind of resigned myself to it never happening. Who wants to play a video game where the PC can't leave their house most days? can't get out of bed sometimes, even? Hell, I wouldn't, that sounds ridiculously boring. But that's more or less how the Operator has to function, albeit with magic and technology to make the rest of the game playable. Looking at the Operator is like looking into a mirror, down to the same damn body type.

(As an aside, I'm also nonbinary, and love whoever was lazy enough to make one model that was sort of male and sort of female and sort of neither and call it good, instead of the godforsaken ubiquitous - and usually exaggerated - male/female models. I am not kidding when I say the Operator's body looks exactly like mine.)

I don't know if this is how most people feel when they play video games, when and if they see themselves in the characters. Very likely my reaction is - disproportionate, because it's not something I've experienced before. It feels euphoric. This is not me making something up to make myself feel better or make the story more interesting, it is 100% canon that the Operator is very limited in their range of physical movement and must rely on assistive devices - because that's what the Warframes are, that's what the transference suit is - to be able to interact with the world.

(I hesitate at calling the Operator "disabled" because, well, they're pretty much not. They're the new normal. They're disabled the way a human who doesn't have wings is disabled.)

So thank you. You have inadvertently given me something very precious and very personal, and I cannot express in words how profoundly grateful I am for that. This is what keeps me coming back to Warframe: that somebody on your team, maybe not out loud, maybe not even on purpose, thought that someone like me would and could and should be able to do these fantastic, amazing things. I've been here since the game first started and I'm not going anywhere anytime soon.

Space ninjas rule.

thats weird i didnt cry

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

4 hours ago, 1TheOneWhoKnocks said:

thats weird i didnt cry

where ia the downvote button when you need one lolz....

to TS

if you loved the 2nd dream then you will like the tww without getting to spoilers its about getting back up on your feet when all everything was lost and your situation becomes hopeless.

[Fallowsthorn]

13 hours ago, 1TheOneWhoKnocks said:

thats weird i didnt cry

cool story bro

 

8 hours ago, (PS4)wildcats1369my said:

if you loved the 2nd dream then you will like the tww without getting to spoilers its about getting back up on your feet when all everything was lost and your situation becomes hopeless.

I'm two spots away from the Sedna Junction and then I'm going to play it ASAP. I'm pretty excited.

[Rumi_Rosario]

Before I say anything. I was just idly browsing on my phone and switched right to PC to reply for this.

While we ALL play for differing reasons. "The Second Dream" quest was one of those quests when I played it, I was blown away and emotional by it all.

While I personally shed a tear with that one scene of powering up my Ash Prime in all it's glory, the real reason was how long and how hard it was for me to get that point in the game. Hardships and whatnot in-game.

Back to the OP,

On 4/6/2017 at 8:56 PM, Fallowsthorn said:

Who wants to play a video game where the PC can't leave their house most days?

I do. So do most people for different reasons, good or bad. I can see why from one point of the glass prism why you would feel encased in wax by it.

On 4/6/2017 at 8:56 PM, Fallowsthorn said:

I don't know if this is how most people feel when they play video games, when and if they see themselves in the characters. Very likely my reaction is - disproportionate, because it's not something I've experienced before.

Pretty much when anyone put the time and effort into understanding a story, I believe any good and well written story (how many plot-holes it has in it), it has to evoke emotion. That means you understand the subtle premise of what the underlying meaning is that the story is trying to portray. If you get what that means.

I do believe somewhere in some psychological paper i read that the connection that we have to characters to stories is that we see ourselves in them.

I'm still mildly concerned.

Ninjas Play Free, Tenno.

[TheChaotic1]

I like that the operators are never truly free from the chair, so even if they can run and shoot lasers there is still a life support system they need, like someone on oxygen or cheemo