Health Orb Drops Need to be more Reliable

[MurderHoboDinosaur]

Like in Archwing, we need enemies to drop more health orbs. Its annoying how to even give yourself you need 

1. A frame[Oberon, Trinity, Nekros, etc]

2. Gear[Health restore, pad]

3. Random drops from lockers that only have 25 health

4. A weapon like the Hirudo, Furis augment, or Hema

 

We need enemies to drop it, and in order to balance out those effects, simply have a tier. 

 

For enemy levels 1-10 they drop 25+ HP orbs, for the nooby

 

11-20 they drop 50+ HP orbs

 

21-30 they drop 75+ HP Orbs

 

That way our builds and choices won't be contrained by matters like "How will I heal myself but also not be stifled by the meta?"

 

To prevent a tidal wave of orbs, just have them drop from enemies 1/4 of the time, so a squad would give you one yes, but if you face a horde of enemies or prefer a grand melee brawl, just start tearing through them and pick up health alongthe way.

 

[TotallyLagging]

It's one of the things Steve noticed on his streams actually.

 

They should drop as often as energy orbs. 

[(PSN)fullblast35]

If we had more health orb drops that last thing we call "End game", you know, the long survivals players declared  "end game",  there would be no "end game"

[Phyrak]

Contrary thought/opinion.

Remove orbs and give minor hp/energy regen

[00zau]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)fullblast35 said:

If we had more health orb drops that last thing we call "End game", you know, the long survivals players declared  "end game",  there would be no "end game"

A health orb isn't going to stop you from getting one shot by a level 100 bombard. It just means that there is some level of sustain available to every frame. As it is, if you can't find or buy a life strike mod (or want to use a sidearm besides the furis), the only option for half of the frames is health restores.

[NecromancerX69]

Um.... OP... You clearly forgot something....

Just add it on every single Melee and you shall be fine. Belive me, how hard it's to get close to a low rank grunt and just hit him / her / it  once to regain all your health... I mean, its not like we don't have scorpions, chargers, moas in the game....

(That reminds me, I need to remove it from my weapons since making pizza it's easy for me now).

[MurderHoboDinosaur]

Just now, NecromancerX69 said:

Um.... OP... You clearly forgot something....

Just add it on every single Melee and you shall be fine. Belive me, how hard it's to get close to a low rank grunt and just hit him / her / it  once to regain all your health... I mean, its not like we don't have scorpions, chargers, moas in the game....

(That reminds me, I need to remove it from my weapons since making pizza it's easy for me now).

Thats the point, first off its a rare mod that a majority of players will not have, 2nd, then it becomes a mandatory mod, 3rd, channeling is expensive.

[MurderHoboDinosaur]

2 minutes ago, 00zau said:

A health orb isn't going to stop you from getting one shot by a level 100 bombard. It just means that there is some level of sustain available to every frame. As it is, if you can't find or buy a life strike mod (or want to use a sidearm besides the furis), the only option for half of the frames is health restores.

EXACTLY!

 

I remember my old warframe days from the beginning, constantly dying because I was just a level 25 volt on jupiter with no way of actually healing myself.

[NecromancerX69]

Just now, MurderHoboDinosaur said:

Thats the point, first off its a rare mod that a majority of players will not have, 2nd, then it becomes a mandatory mod, 3rd, channeling is expensive.

1.- That's the point of warframe, you need to learn the curve till you can farm for it (or you can buy it with plat: 15 to 10 plat is not a lot).

Also farming for it is not that hard, it's a rotation C drop from Dark Sectors. Hell, even some players that are good will willingly give it for free.

 

2.- Wrong, it's not a mandatory mod. You need to learn to take cover (Not every warframe is a tank like Rhino for example).

 

3.- The channeling is not that bad as you say. You only need to swing it once to regain health, also no need to keep it channeling the full time. Second, there is a mod I don't remember his name that counters the channeling cost making it better (like a StreamLine sort of mod for melee weapons).

[NecromancerX69]

Actually, Quiet Shy clearly explains how to play squishy warframes in a nutshell...

 

[MurderHoboDinosaur]

1 minute ago, NecromancerX69 said:

1.- That's the point of warframe, you need to learn the curve till you can farm for it (or you can buy it with plat: 15 to 10 plat is not a lot).

Also farming for it is not that hard, it's a rotation C drop from Dark Sectors. Hell, even some players that are good will willingly give it for free.

 

2.- Wrong, it's not a mandatory mod. You need to learn to take cover (Not every warframe is a tank like Rhino for example).

 

3.- The channeling is not that bad as you say. You only need to swing it once to regain health, also no need to keep it channeling the full time. Second, there is a mod I don't remember his name that counters the channeling cost making it better (like a StreamLine sort of mod for melee weapons).

1. That doesn't exactly help new players does it? I don't want to be limited just to survive. And not everyone has money to drop of warframe.

 

2. IT IS when you HAVE to use it to regain health. Taking cover is fine and dandy unless you're in A. An Open area or B. Surrounded by a fuckton of enemies, which coincidentally happens ALOT.

 

3. Yes, more mandatory mods is great? If you NEED it just to survive or be decent, its a mandatory mod. You don't need Fast Hands, but you need Splitshot.

 

And going from gun to melee takes a few seconds, on top of pushing the channeling button. In a fast paced game like warframe, this is an eternity, and you're likely to get shot up by the time this happens. Unless you're using speed holster, but thats neither here or there.

[(PSN)Final_Dragon01]

I don't know.  I can see the appeal of health orbs dropping, but I am not sure it is needed because there are so many ways to heal yourself.  I think is comes down to is a minor level of sustain a QOL item or is it a feature that should have an opportunity cost.  I think calling it a QOL item is a hard sell.

However, if health orbs started dropping like the used to (the rate you are suggesting is way too high), I don't think much would change.  For most the difference would be a 1 different mod on a melee or sentinel.  So I suppose it might be worth trying if it might make the game more fun for some people.  However, I would not call it a necessary change.

[MurderHoboDinosaur]

5 minutes ago, NecromancerX69 said:

Actually, Quiet Shy clearly explains how to play squishy warframes in a nutshell...

 

The part of movement yes I agree, but if it were so easy NOT to get shot or NOT end up in small spaces which don't allow for that, we would have alot less deaths wouldn't we?

 

Lets run down the list, a non starter frame, most mods on that build are maxed, and presumably weapons that have fully maxed mods.

 

Its easy for me to do this, but A MAJORITY OF PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE THIS LUXURY.

 

And you know what? My points still stand. Health orbs dropping from enemies with a 1/4th chance WOULD STILL BE GREAT for quality of life because I wouldn't have to worry about healing return, life strike, hirudo, or anything else blatant just to stay alive, and actually use things I find fun or underused.

[MurderHoboDinosaur]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Final_Dragon01 said:

I don't know.  I can see the appeal of health orbs dropping, but I am not sure it is needed because there are so many ways to heal yourself.  I think is comes down to is a minor level of sustain a QOL item or is it a feature that should have an opportunity cost.  I think calling it a QOL item is a hard sell.

However, if health orbs started dropping like the used to (the rate you are suggesting is way too high), I don't think much would change.  For most the difference would be a 1 different mod on a melee or sentinel.  So I suppose it might be worth trying if it might make the game more fun for some people.  However, I would not call it a necessary change.

There are many ways of healing yourself, when you've maxed out/grinded/bought the necessary items in game.

 

I don't know how this is complicated, a important game mechanic(healing) while there are plenty of options are either not accessible for a long time, or out of reach.

 

I am speaking from experience over my time playing warframe for a very long time.

 

Its a Quality of life adjustment because thats at least one mod or weapon I DON'T have to use, one less mandatory mod or build. Whats so hard to understand about that? That removing a "you must do this or that" mandatory function would go a long way into making people actually not rely on them, and expand their creativity and flexibility?

 

And if they can't drop 1/4th, then atleast they should drop a little more than energy orbs. You need HP more than you need energy. 

[NecromancerX69]

57 minutes ago, MurderHoboDinosaur said:

1. That doesn't exactly help new players does it? I don't want to be limited just to survive. And not everyone has money to drop of warframe.

 

2. IT IS when you HAVE to use it to regain health. Taking cover is fine and dandy unless you're in A. An Open area or B. Surrounded by a fuckton of enemies, which coincidentally happens ALOT.

 

3. Yes, more mandatory mods is great? If you NEED it just to survive or be decent, its a mandatory mod. You don't need Fast Hands, but you need Splitshot.

 

And going from gun to melee takes a few seconds, on top of pushing the channeling button. In a fast paced game like warframe, this is an eternity, and you're likely to get shot up by the time this happens. Unless you're using speed holster, but thats neither here or there.

1.- New players have to learn to survive without some mods, we all did at one point in our lives. It help me get good.

 

2.-  A) & B)   Say hello to Taxon Sentinel...  Also If you are that bad at keeping your health in place, why not play in pubs where people can help you or you can use them as meat shields (That's what I learn in my early stages till I got my own Rhino. Now a days I play squishy warframes).

 

3.- It's not a mandatory mod, I never use it (The one that lowers the channeling cost, cause the cost is not as bad as you claim it to be). Speaking of splitshot that is an entire diferent topic since those mods are really required on guns.  Life Strike is never required on melee unless you are having a bad time LEARNING how to survive.

 

That last one...

 

Ever heard of tactical retreat if you are playing solo? Or hide behind companions? again, also Taxon Sentinel?

(Edit: I mess it up with the Kubrows and the shade sentinel. Since DE changed the position of planets, some components can no longer be aquired by new players unless some one give new players a Taxi.  I admit my mistake. But then again, DE should fix the drop of resources on planets to help new players now a days)

Edited April 16, 2017 by NecromancerX69
Mess it up with sentinels and kubrows

[MurderHoboDinosaur]

2 minutes ago, NecromancerX69 said:

1.- New players have to learn to survive without some mods, we all did at one point in our lives. It help me get good.

 

2.-  A) & B)   Say hello to Shade or Huras Kubrow or Rakasa Kubrow....  Also If you are that bad at keeping your health in place, why not play in pubs where people can help you or you can use them as meat shields (That's what I learn in my early stages till I got my own Rhino. Now a days I play squishy warframes).

 

3.- It's not a mandatory mod, I never use it (The one that lowers the channeling cost, cause the cost is not as bad as you claim it to be). Speaking of splitshot that is an entire diferent topic since those mods are really required on guns.  Life Strike is never required on melee unless you are having a bad time LEARNING how to survive.

 

That last one...

 

Ever heard of tactical retreat if you are playing solo? Or hide behind companions? again, also Shade or Huras Kubrow?

I have no trouble surviving buddy. I've run Sortie 3's with nothing but speed volt with no shield or health mods, or QT. I'm saying this is a quality of life addition that Warframe needs.

 

New players need to learn to go without certain mods, until they hit a point where their equipment just doesn't work out. I have actual personal experience from my early days. I know how frustrating it was to be killing enemies and trying to take cover, while my health was slowly whittled down.

 

For your second point, you mean sentinels and pets that surprise surprise, not every player might not have? Next thing you'll tell me newer and somewhat mid level players should just use Ivara for Spy's if they can do it right! 

 

Then how do you propose that players regain health, without something they are forced to do? You don't need ANYTHING in game for energy, all you need to do is kill enemies, for which there is a large supply of. But health? You NEED something specific, and just in case you're STILL not getting it, making players engage in one activity/weapon/frame JUST to get health is NOT healthy for a game!

 

And when you have less than 400 HP left and you're trying to get away, often times you die. Which could have been averted if the enemies you were mowing down dropped some health for you to keep going, as opposed to use a mod or object you might not even HAVE to survive.

 

 

Are you actually reading all my posts?

[Drasiel]

considering how god forsakenly common slash proccs are (even among low level mook enemies), health orbs could definitely be beefed up. the learning curve from level 10 enemies to level 20 enemies is not kind to new players even with recent changes. For those that do not have the 100k credits to buy restore blueprints slash proccs often result in a few deaths per mission. Because remember enemies don't just hit harder as they level up they also gain greater accuracy which means they hit you more often and you are more likely to take a slash procc.

[taiiat]

as always, the lack of any form of Healing that doesn't require using specific Equipment, makes having that specific Equipment, mandatory to play the game.

and as always, Players take RNG Health Damage - so a form of self Healing is mandatory, but isn't present.
there has to be something. it doesn't have to be a huge amount, but it has to be enough to counteract the shots you will inevitably get hit by, and the RNG Health Damage you will take. 

and this something needs to work in all Gamemodes. yes, that includes Endless.
Health Orbs is the easy one, the least work involved to do. i'd be fine with it. but, some new thing could be made, should Digital Extremes wish to.

[(PSN)Final_Dragon01]

8 minutes ago, MurderHoboDinosaur said:

There are many ways of healing yourself, when you've maxed out/grinded/bought the necessary items in game.

 

I don't know how this is complicated, a important game mechanic(healing) while there are plenty of options are either not accessible for a long time, or out of reach.

 

I am speaking from experience over my time playing warframe for a very long time.

 

Its a Quality of life adjustment because thats at least one mod or weapon I DON'T have to use, one less mandatory mod or build. Whats so hard to understand about that? That removing a "you must do this or that" mandatory function would go a long way into making people actually not rely on them, and expand their creativity and flexibility?

 

And if they can't drop 1/4th, then atleast they should drop a little more than energy orbs. You need HP more than you need energy. 

When I started my PC account I got medi-ray as soon as I could trade.  I ran void obstacle courses for mods.  Sold a copy of shock absorbers for 10 and bought medi for 5.  So mastery 2 I could already passively heal and I had guardian from day one.  I really don't think it is as difficult as you are making it seem.

I just flat disagree that taking some form of healing it is mandatory in the same way serration is mandatory.

I don't think you can so easily call it a QOL issue because managing your health is a skill, and I could argue that needing manage your health adds something important to the core of the game.  If you wish make health management easier then it should cost you something.

I can't get behind your argument because you could make the exact same argument for giving everyone toggleable Godmode, and I think that misses the point of Warframe.

If you said we need an amount of health orbs to balance out things like slash procs and toxic damage that ignores shields I could agree with you since I consider those things cheap shots on new players.

[NecromancerX69]

27 minutes ago, MurderHoboDinosaur said:

I have no trouble surviving buddy. I've run Sortie 3's with nothing but speed volt with no shield or health mods, or QT. I'm saying this is a quality of life addition that Warframe needs.

 

New players need to learn to go without certain mods, until they hit a point where their equipment just doesn't work out. I have actual personal experience from my early days. I know how frustrating it was to be killing enemies and trying to take cover, while my health was slowly whittled down.

 

For your second point, you mean sentinels and pets that surprise surprise, not every player might not have? Next thing you'll tell me newer and somewhat mid level players should just use Ivara for Spy's if they can do it right! 

 

Then how do you propose that players regain health, without something they are forced to do? You don't need ANYTHING in game for energy, all you need to do is kill enemies, for which there is a large supply of. But health? You NEED something specific, and just in case you're STILL not getting it, making players engage in one activity/weapon/frame JUST to get health is NOT healthy for a game!

 

And when you have less than 400 HP left and you're trying to get away, often times you die. Which could have been averted if the enemies you were mowing down dropped some health for you to keep going, as opposed to use a mod or object you might not even HAVE to survive.

 

 

Are you actually reading all my posts?

"Are you actually reading all my posts?"  I could ask the same thing...

For the Second part: Taxon is a good early on Sentinel new players can get to survive.

(Edit: I mess it up with the Kubrows and the shade sentinel. Since DE changed the position of planets, some components can no longer be aquired by new players unless some one give new players a Taxi.  I admit my mistake. But then again, DE should fix the drop of resources on planets to help new players now a days)

 

The third part: Play with a team, good lord, how hard it's to go out and play with companions or ask for help on the recruitment chat. Play any warframe you want, if you are a new player and get shot / down for lack of health a friendly companion can revive you. We all have to learn to survive. There is NOTHING specific to be done, hell you don't need to follow the meta if you really want to play casually as a NEW player.

 

The forth part: Sigh, the only thing I will say it's play with a team if you can't handle the pressure? or just die / respawn and keep killing.

 

The last thing I will say: Play with team mates, never play alone as a NEW player, I am aware / I was always aware that your post is in relation to new players. But seriously they should play with friends or Companions. No one should play alone in the early stages.

 

[Last Mocking Post:  Buy Ivara for Mid level players to make spy runs ez :V    It's not recommended to farm for her anyway.]

Edited April 16, 2017 by NecromancerX69
I made another big mistake

[Potato]

Health orbs should be more common. Like, more common than energy orbs even. I don't get why it isn't.

[Drasiel]

2 hours ago, NecromancerX69 said:

<snip>

The last thing I will say: Play with team mates, never play alone as a NEW player, I am aware / I was always aware that your post is in relation to new players. But seriously they should play with friends or Companions. No one should play alone in the early stages.

 

[Last Mocking Post:  Buy Ivara for Mid level players to make spy runs ez :V    It's not recommended to farm for her anyway.]

That's not always an option due to disability, internet providers, or location. Certainly it's easier to accomplish things when you group up but it's not mandatory and treating low level play like grouping up should be mandatory will end up souring the opinions of those stuck solo. Taxon only buffs your shields it can't heal you unless you get a mod that is normally gained from kela de thaym on sedna, one of the very last planets. If a player is following normal progression then they won't get that mod until long after it stops being useful.

The best a new player can hope for in terms of healing is: lucking out and getting a rejuvenation mod, Being carried to the 20 minute mark in darksector survival and lucking out with a life strike (also from drova bursa which is it's own frustration), Ignoring normal progression and trading for medi ray, fighting infested for days to get healing return which they won't be able to take full advantage of because the base status mods are garbage, or building one of two restores. The restores are interesting because one is easy to get and build but only offers a total of 120 healing over 7.5 seconds which isn't even enough to heal an unmodded rank 30 excalibur up to half health and the other that heals you completely but requires you to scan plants. Plants you don't learn about scanning until the jupiter europa junction where the new strange is introduced or if you fail to put two and two together and look for things to scan, you instead have to wait for the silver grove quest that unlocks after the second dream (neptune) and mastery rank 7. On top of requiring you to scan plants you also have to get both day and night plants which means guess what that's at least a 2 hour wait between collecting and at 20 credits per scan (25 scanners for 500 credits) with you needing to scan 32 plants (total of  640 credits)+ 1000 credits per building the restore new players simply can't utilise those items well. The amount of credit sinks for early game coupled with the very few credit wells makes craftable restores extremely unappealing for new players and in many cases unsustainable.

[NecromancerX69]

1 hour ago, Drasiel said:

That's not always an option due to disability, internet providers, or location. Certainly it's easier to accomplish things when you group up but it's not mandatory and treating low level play like grouping up should be mandatory will end up souring the opinions of those stuck solo. Taxon only buffs your shields it can't heal you unless you get a mod that is normally gained from kela de thaym on sedna, one of the very last planets. If a player is following normal progression then they won't get that mod until long after it stops being useful.

The best a new player can hope for in terms of healing is: lucking out and getting a rejuvenation mod, Being carried to the 20 minute mark in darksector survival and lucking out with a life strike (also from drova bursa which is it's own frustration), Ignoring normal progression and trading for medi ray, fighting infested for days to get healing return which they won't be able to take full advantage of because the base status mods are garbage, or building one of two restores. The restores are interesting because one is easy to get and build but only offers a total of 120 healing over 7.5 seconds which isn't even enough to heal an unmodded rank 30 excalibur up to half health and the other that heals you completely but requires you to scan plants. Plants you don't learn about scanning until the jupiter europa junction where the new strange is introduced or if you fail to put two and two together and look for things to scan, you instead have to wait for the silver grove quest that unlocks after the second dream (neptune) and mastery rank 7. On top of requiring you to scan plants you also have to get both day and night plants which means guess what that's at least a 2 hour wait between collecting and at 20 credits per scan (25 scanners for 500 credits) with you needing to scan 32 plants (total of  640 credits)+ 1000 credits per building the restore new players simply can't utilise those items well. The amount of credit sinks for early game coupled with the very few credit wells makes craftable restores extremely unappealing for new players and in many cases unsustainable.

1.- Fair point on the first part. But the point of Taxon is not to heal you, just to keep your shields up + the weapon it comes with doesn't require damage mods and can help keep the enemy at bay.

 

2.- The problem here, which I already commented it's the day DE changed the planets positioning on Specters of the Rail.

As you can see here on the old planet positions, Saturn used to be an early stage map (kind of), the one that gave us Nano Spores, Plastids & Orokin cells.

These items are essential for building Kubrows & Sentinels that can help new players to survive. The reason I was complaining with the post from the start was that I alone learn to survive during the early stages of the game, but that was before the change so I was lucky to build my own kubrow early game (also thanks to the help of some taxies).

I also got the chance to get good early warframes: Ember (Saturn), Rhino (Venus), Valkyr (Jupiter). In other words I was hard to kill or get hurt by the enemy.

The best sentinels: Diriga (my favorite till this day) & Shade.

Not to mention my first Kubrow was: Huras (Darkness, I still own her) <3

 

At least now with the new Specters of the Rail, the warframes you can get early on are Rhino (Venus) and Frost (Mars).

But the problem remains with not being able to build new sentinels till you reach Saturn or even the Kubrows since the part requires Nano spores.

Now I can see the struggle of newer players. And the only solution to this problem is building Rhino early on for survival till they can get Frost or a better warframe like Trinity on Ceres, Nova on Europa, Equinox on Uranus (will take a while). Taxon so far can try and keep you safe if you ran out of Iron Skin. But you will need to take cover every now and then if you are a new player.

That is all...

(I admit my mistakes, but we can also discuss the bigger picture. Resource limitation for newer players that can't have a taxi)

Edited April 16, 2017 by NecromancerX69
Forgot something

[(PSN)Fantom1990]

Increasing the health orb drop rate would really help, especially for the Voidrig Necramech, since it has no way to replenish its health when it takes damage.

[Lutesque]

I actually want more Energy Orbs.... ALOT more.... Preferably with no Bandaids....

Then we can see about all Orb Drops in general...