How to fight Macro Spamming

[(PSN)Crixus044]

4 minutes ago, jfhsanseiIII said:

I don't really see it as that dominantbif an issue right now.   With Telos Boltace's functioning the way it currently does, I've not seen people spamming S2W.  

 That's because it was TB was the easiest and most obvious, but make no mistake, other melee are just as effective, if not more.

 

7 minutes ago, Arniox said:

...i don't think your seeing the point that people here are making:

1. From what I've seen, only one or two people agree, the rest say no. We don't care about your idea. 

2. Even if a delay was implemented, people would still abuse the system and spam. Garinteed. 

3. There is actually already a delay based on the animation of the weapon. So your idea it's already in game, just with a probably 0.25 or 0.125 second delay. 0.5 seconds is too long. 

4. Plz stop with the Nerf/banhammer posts. Most disagree, and if DE notices a massive playtime and abuse of certain weapons,  they'll Nerf it. EG: Telos boltace 

This is far from a nerf/banhammer post. I've already addressed these points, look through my replies to see. Again, most of these replies are making such drama out of nothing. But i guess being dramatic and loud is what gets you what gets you what you want. Empty barrel makes the most noise, squeaky wheel gets the grease right?

[ComCray]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

most of these replies are making such drama out of nothing. But i guess being dramatic and loud is what gets you what gets you what you want. Empty barrel makes the most noise, squeaky wheel gets the grease right?

Yeah, hey, nice one, right back at ya. The drama is all yours with the "we need to stahp macro spamming".

[Eidolon_Slayer]

Macro's not a problem, they work within the limits of the game today.

[Arniox]

On 4/20/2017 at 2:13 PM, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

 That's because it was TB was the easiest and most obvious, but make no mistake, other melee are just as effective, if not more.

 

This is far from a nerf/banhammer post. I've already addressed these points, look through my replies to see. Again, most of these replies are making such drama out of nothing. But i guess being dramatic and loud is what gets you what gets you what you want. Empty barrel makes the most noise, squeaky wheel gets the grease right?

Umm.. Sure

 

Lol. Well If you've answered everything, then technically this forum post is done...  Nothing is changing, we've talked, and discussed this topic. And now we're done...

 

DE plz lock thread. We're done 😛😛😛

[(PSN)Crixus044]

34 minutes ago, Arniox said:

Umm.. Sure

 

Lol. Well If you've answered everything, then technically this forum post is done...  Nothing is changing, we've talked, and discussed this topic. And now we're done...

 

DE plz lock thread. We're done 😛😛😛

Yeah cool. From where I see it, this isn't a bad idea, and I think most players would either agree with me or feel neutral towards it. "Forum warriors" (not my quote) will always try as hard as possible to get the game to how they see fit. While there are some great points in these replies and actual discussions could've taken place, it will be impossible on something so sensitive for a "certain you know what" playstyle.

First it was about me being on console. Then when that was eliminated, it was that i couldn't do it, then when that as eliminated, it was that players can do it manually just as fast, and I say this to you, a .5 second cooldown is slow enough to not bother you whatsoever in regular gameplay. The only time it could bother you is if you are spamming slide melee, which you shouldn't be doing anyways.

The playstyle itself is not well liked already, but not everybody wood be able to do it at ridiculous speeds. Macros make this playstyle, normally reserved for people with "hands of steel", accessible to all those without any sort of effort, with the threat of taking it to the extreme. While this will nerf melee spam for some players,  it will not hurt you all that much. And if you cannot handle going at 2 slides per second, I highly doubt that you will be unable to figure out another similar or fun and effective playstyle.

Edited April 21, 2017 by (PS4)Crixus044

[StinkyPygmy]

I'm fairly sure macros had very little to do with the TB being nerfed. Its spammable without macros and was still a room nuker, regardless.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

1 minute ago, StinkyPygmy said:

I'm fairly sure macros had very little to do with the TB being nerfed. Its spammable without macros and was still a room nuker, regardless.

Oh absolutely, I get that. I thought it was crazy good, especially with stealth mechanics on slash, but the main reason DE changed it and players didn't like it was because of how ridiculous it was when spammed, which they kinda fixed, but once they realize it will do nothing to stop room nuking slide spam, eventually they're gonna have to stop room nuking by either nerfing Maiming Strike, or just like I suggest, slowing down the slide speed so that 1. Macros that make it so easy to spam and 2. So that slide spam melee doesn't become the new Miragulor with whips and polearms (if it wasn't already)

[Aeromancer]

20 hours ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

Yeah cool. From where I see it, this isn't a bad idea, and I think most players would either agree with me or feel neutral towards it. "Forum warriors" (not my quote) will always try as hard as possible to get the game to how they see fit. While there are some great points in these replies and actual discussions could've taken place, it will be impossible on something so sensitive for a "certain you know what" playstyle.

The problem with that statement is that if those players feel neutral towards your idea, then it also means they feel that slide attacks are fine as they are now.  Not many players who posted in this thread so far agree with your idea, which may be an indicator that your idea may not be as good as you think it is.  Labeling them as "Forum warriors" because they don't agree with your idea isn't going to help at all.

21 hours ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

First it was about me being on console. Then when that was eliminated, it was that i couldn't do it, then when that as eliminated, it was that players can do it manually just as fast, and I say this to you, a .5 second cooldown is slow enough to not bother you whatsoever in regular gameplay. The only time it could bother you is if you are spamming slide melee, which you shouldn't be doing anyways.

Thankfully it's not up to you to decide what players should and shouldn't do or how they should play.  We're already playing within the limits of what the game, our hardware and our hands allow us.

21 hours ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

The playstyle itself is not well liked already, but not everybody wood be able to do it at ridiculous speeds. Macros make this playstyle, normally reserved for people with "hands of steel", accessible to all those without any sort of effort, with the threat of taking it to the extreme. While this will nerf melee spam for some players,  it will not hurt you all that much. And if you cannot handle going at 2 slides per second, I highly doubt that you will be unable to figure out another similar or fun and effective playstyle.

And what about the people who lost their "hands of steel" due to an accident and/or surgery and went out to buy programmable gaming keyboards and mice to compensate for the lost performance?  Are you going to force your idea on them?

[ashrah]

this dayes u can buy proffesional gaming mouses with.. side macros..in many mmo games  can get ban

[Aeromancer]

3 minutes ago, ashrah said:

this dayes u can buy proffesional gaming mouses with.. side macros..in many mmo games  can get ban

I'm pretty sure the reason for those bans are because of  software designed for the purpose of botting, not macros.

Edited April 22, 2017 by Aeromancer
more detail

[ashrah]

5 minutes ago, Aeromancer said:

I'm pretty sure the reason for those bans are because of  software designed for the purpose of botting, not macros.

they use it for wepons.. to buypass   ^normal fire rate^ or stuff like that..

[Aeromancer]

2 minutes ago, ashrah said:

they use it for wepons.. to buypass   ^normal fire rate^ or stuff like that..

Got any examples of these bans to share with us then?

Also, that sound like the use of software like Cheat Engine to alter the game's mechanics.

Edited April 22, 2017 by Aeromancer
macros don't alter game mechanics.

[ashrah]

24 minutes ago, Aeromancer said:

Got any examples of these bans to share with us then?

Also, that sound like the use of software like Cheat Engine to alter the game's mechanics.

in crossfire... ppl are get ban for doing that.. with over 5000h in game..they buy magnum revolver and kill u faster then u kill someone with mp5..

[Aeromancer]

Just now, ashrah said:

in crossfire... ppl are get ban for doing that.. with over 5000h in game..they buy magnum revolver and kill u faster then u kill someone with mp5..

Citations would be appreciated.

[SilvaDreams]

35 minutes ago, Aeromancer said:

I'm pretty sure the reason for those bans are because of  software designed for the purpose of botting, not macros.

Do you know what the difference between the two is?

Nothing. If you can write a macro code in basic you can make a bot, just most built in macro programs for keyboards/mice are cut down or simplified.

[Aeromancer]

1 minute ago, SilvaDreams said:

Do you know what the difference between the two is?

Nothing. If you can write a macro code in basic you can make a bot, just most built in macro programs for keyboards/mice are cut down or simplified.

A simple macro application isn't going to scan an area for a specific resource then move/teleport the player to that resource to collect it before repeating the steps in a fantasy mmo, for example.  A botting program often does that and may also have macro functions built into it.  So I will ask you the same question you've asked me:  Do YOU know what the difference between the two is?

[SilvaDreams]

3 minutes ago, Aeromancer said:

A simple macro application isn't going to scan an area for a specific resource then move/teleport the player to that resource to collect it before repeating the steps in a fantasy mmo, for example.  A botting program often does that and may also have macro functions built into it.  So I will ask you the same question you've asked me:  Do YOU know what the difference between the two is?

Yes because I've made bots on a macro program. Bots and macros are essentially the same thing, just a simple automated process that responds to an initial input.

Go pick up a macro program that isn't a cut down one from a keyboard or mouse, they are nothing more than a BASIC scripting tool that doesn't need to have the code compiled.

[Aeromancer]

5 minutes ago, SilvaDreams said:

Yes because I've made bots on a macro program. Bots and macros are essentially the same thing, just a simple automated process that responds to an initial input.

Go pick up a macro program that isn't a cut down one from a keyboard or mouse, they are nothing more than a BASIC scripting tool that doesn't need to have the code compiled.

Maybe when I decide to change my gaming peripherals or if I decide that I need to have a bot play a game for me, which isn't going to happen anytime soon.

[SilvaDreams]

2 minutes ago, Aeromancer said:

Maybe when I decide to change my gaming peripherals or if I decide that I need to have a bot play a game for me, which isn't going to happen anytime soon.

I was a beta tester for years before that job market kind of died with payed betas, one of the things we did was to help the developers defeat bots by making it hard for them to run.

Simple bots like those made like how I mentioned are easy enough to combat as they are fairly simple (But you can get complex in what you want them to do), the harder ones tend to be written in C and use Dll injection to read directly from the game or alter it if the devs left tools hidden in the client itself.

But those can be caught a bit easier too since they alter game files.

[Xgomme]

As soon as the macro is doing thing a human can do I don't give a sht, the guy is lazy, well, not my problem.

 

But some are totally unfair, and yep, for those they need to put some CD here and there, cause people abusing instant frame perfect slashjump in conclave is kinda not that fair for example. (An I'm not talking about anything you can spam with legit fingers  )

[Aeromancer]

1 hour ago, Xgomme said:

As soon as the macro is doing thing a human can do I don't give a sht, the guy is lazy, well, not my problem.

 

But some are totally unfair, and yep, for those they need to put some CD here and there, cause people abusing instant frame perfect slashjump in conclave is kinda not that fair for example. (An I'm not talking about anything you can spam with legit fingers  )

Cooldowns for actions like that in competitive modes would be something I can agree with.

 

To summarize my thoughs of everything in this thread:

1. Whether players are using a macro for their own reasons or able to perform actions faster than the OP due to better peripherals or simply having faster hands, no one should be limited to play at one person's pace whether it's because of envy or some other reason they have.
2. What the user decides to do with macro functions determines whether it remains harmless (input  key 'x' and 'y' on activation) or it begins to tread into botting territory (resource bot farming in a typical fantasy mmo).
3. Competitive modes (conclave and lunaro) are a different matter and the use of macros to gain an unfair advantage can be a problem.  Perhaps OP's proposal is better suited for those aspects of the game (for the sake of conclave players).

With that said, I'm done here.  There is nothing else to discuss.

Edited April 22, 2017 by Aeromancer
added summary

[(PSN)Crixus044]

I can understand many of the responses here. A lot more reason material and I just want to note some things. If you are lazy and want to usr a macro to do what you would normally be doing, that's more than ok. If you have a medical or physical disability and need a macro, that's ok. The only thing that i will not stand for is someone trying to usr a macro to do what some players break there fingers for and THEN go even more insane. Slide attacks are fine, my idea doesn't apply to sliding. It applies the spamming the slide attack, which is not a playstyle you really should be using anyways, but i understand and follow the idea of playing how you want, and what the developers want in terms of how you play is 100% up to them. My suggestion was for those who wish to take this tactic to the extreme, which is not right. I don't know why, but judging from most of the responses, this idea has not been understood. Whether my description failed to convey that or not is a separate reasonable discussion, so i hope what i just said will clear it up.

Again the key is that it will not affect your playstyle at all if you're using slide attacks in melee combos, and minorly for slide spam, which completely getting rid of the superhuman reflexes macros give you.

From what i understand, a bot is an automated program while macros Jay activate a perfect timed button sequence. This may be wrong, but thst is my understanding

[Arniox]

On 4/22/2017 at 0:10 AM, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

The playstyle itself is not well liked already, but not everybody wood be able to do it at ridiculous speeds. Macros make this playstyle, normally reserved for people with "hands of steel", accessible to all those without any sort of effort, with the threat of taking it to the extreme. While this will nerf melee spam for some players,  it will not hurt you all that much. And if you cannot handle going at 2 slides per second, I highly doubt that you will be unable to figure out another similar or fun and effective playstyle.

1- that play style is only disliked by a few Nerf warriors. Most people don't care or enjoy the playstyle.

2- would. Not wood :P

3- who cares if only the 'hands of steel people can naturally get that fast. Not all gameplay needs to be balanced around everything and everyone. Spin attacks are fun, but when a 'hands of steel' guy comes along, I think it makes the game even more entertaining.

4- it would hurt me and a lot of other vets alot because we've gotten used to the speed at which we can play. DO JOT TAKE IT AWAY FROM US.

5- I don't think you fully read my last comment. Not many people want this. hardly anyone likes this idea. So,  either get gud and as fast as us, or don't play at all. Do not go around calling out for nerfs. We don't need them. The system is fine and fun as it is. 

[Bl4zko]

I'm yet to see an issue of someone using macros, unless it's playing the whole game for them, and by the way macros can also help people with certain disabilities.

Edited April 23, 2017 by Bl4zko

[(PSN)Crixus044]

1 hour ago, Arniox said:

1- that play style is only disliked by a few Nerf warriors. Most people don't care or enjoy the playstyle.

2- would. Not wood :P

3- who cares if only the 'hands of steel people can naturally get that fast. Not all gameplay needs to be balanced around everything and everyone. Spin attacks are fun, but when a 'hands of steel' guy comes along, I think it makes the game even more entertaining.

4- it would hurt me and a lot of other vets alot because we've gotten used to the speed at which we can play. DO JOT TAKE IT AWAY FROM US.

5- I don't think you fully read my last comment. Not many people want this. hardly anyone likes this idea. So,  either get gud and as fast as us, or don't play at all. Do not go around calling out for nerfs. We don't need them. The system is fine and fun as it is. 

Thank you for catching that spelling error. My phone has the dumbest autocorrect for swype. You're post honestly seems to just just boil down to "don nerf ma sh**!", which I can understand your point, but i don't think something like that is helpful to the game. I've logged in 1700 hours into this game, with about a years worth of time on hiatis. I still remember the days of Viver and E Gate. Long live Draco. I have also "studied" this game enough to make what I call now, the Playbook. Full of unique setups, spreadsheets, and game history (college classes can be quite boring that I have to find something else to do)

 Little bit of devil's advocate here and speculation based on history. Spamming anything in this game likely gets nerfed eventually. Remember the Viver nerfs to excal, trinity, and mag? That's because everybody was doing it or taking part in it. With slide melee, we have no nodes to take away, and I have a feeling DE will nerf. It's not only the nerf warriors. A lot of people are against it. Believe me I can see it on region chat, and before telos Boltace nerf, everybody wanted it gone, yet that weapon isn't even the strongest slide spam melee, just that TB made it so popular that people thought the weapon was the problem. 

Don't get me wrong, TB nerf is fine by me, I don't need it, but if slide spamming was the problem with it, it still will be a problem once people figure out the new weapon for it. Now again....I AM NOT IN FAVOR OF THIS PLAYSTYLE, BUT IF YOU ARE DOING IT MANUALLY, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH IT AND THIS POST DOESN'T APPLY TO YOU. I'm just not in favor of macros doing it for people, reaching ridiculous speeds. Just look up the YouTube videos and you'll see. A .5 second cooldown between slides makes it so that you can't spam at a superhuman speed so easily and everybody is on an even playing field. Hell, I wouldn't mind a smaller cooldown, how about .25 second cooldown? But .5 is not bad at all