Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

42 minutes ago, -Defeater- said:

i think hes just saying he doesnt have the drive anymore to argue that oberon could still use some work when DE are probably done tweeking him at this point. which is where im at atm. ill just stick to other frames, its just sad they put all this time into reworking him just to leave him in a place where hes more useful than before but out shined by a lot of other frames. 

Every frame can be outshined. Trinity has no cc, limbo is squishy outside the rift, Rhino cant kill anything above lvl 60. My point is...this is a good rework. Theres always goin to be someone who says otherwise...but pound for pound, obe can survive, destroy, and heal....not bad.

[FelanGrey]

5 minutes ago, Alusdrann said:

Last rework only changed range of HG and how Iron Renewal is applied. But aside from that nitpick...

Smite is still needing fixing. More P.Strength makes its scaling weaker beause the fixed-at-35% scaling is split between orbs. More orbs = less damage per orb.

Hallowed Ground's only reason for allies to stand on it after they get Iron Renewal is that it provides status immunity. Now that range is less of an issue, this is more reasonable to be the only bonus you get. If they made it always a circle and made range mods give 100% of the bonus to radius, I'd be pretty satisfied with it. Aside from the obvious wanting it to look less gross, anyway.

But Smite is the first his ability, it using less energy than any of his other skills and against one goal - it will cause all the damage regardless of the number of spheres. Which is very effective against the bosses. Thats why I think it's ok.

As for Hallowed Ground, I like those arc idea, but it too helpless against Nullifier.

[Alusdrann]

4 minutes ago, FelanGrey said:

But Smite is the first his ability, it using less energy than any of his other skills and against one goal - it will cause all the damage regardless of the number of spheres. Which is very effective against the bosses. Thats why I think it's ok.

I don't think you get that it's not OK that more P.Strength dilutes the damage and makes it weaker. That's arguably a bug.

They could just give each orb a flat 6% damage or so instead of splitting the scaling damage, and it would do basically the same damage at base, while actually benefiting from P.Strength.

There is no excuse for how it currently functions.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Alusdrann

[KnightCole]

8 hours ago, residente said:

What the F*** did I just read? Rhino is one of the best CC frames in the game.

Oberon is not bad but boy, Rhino is several light years ahead of him.

Naw, hes really not.  The best kind of crowd control is that which eliminates the crowd, so that there is no crowd to control, AKA: Killing the bastards.  Rhino is more like a cat playing with it's prey, just throwing them around the room.  His stomp even has a neat bug, which ive seen far to many times, where mobs are invulnerable while in stasis, meaning you cant even take advantage of the stasis to kill them with your weapon. 

In addition, the throwing them around the room, it takes more time to search around the room, find where the stomp threw everyone, look for heads and weakspots, then it does to simply hide around a corner, abusing the terrain, press 2 and just shoot the mobs all dead like ducks in a row.  Then, in order to make his chief asset of Iron Skin worth while, you take away from other skills duration, making the other skills basically useless.  If you buff up Iron Skin, your Stomp will cost like 30% of your total power(130@73% Eff), if not more.  Its duration will be mere seconds, not worth the energy to cast it.  And you wont have energy to recast Iron Skin when it ultimately breaks. 

His Roar is a joke to, I never noticed to much of an increase in damage out put.  I find putting the right elements and using the right physical on your gun has a far bigger impact then his miniscule Roar buff. 

Rhino is Iron Skin, hes easy street god mode.  Hes great for solo play, or for when you need to revive a teammate.  Good for a momentary pause in combat, but thats not great CC, when the rest of your team will just make the whole room vaporize.

He'd be better for what he is if Stomp only cost like 20 energy, Roar was 50 energy and lasted 1 minute, attracted aggro, applied 50% damage reduction to Rhino, and buffed up damage output by like, oh, idk, 250%.  If his Charge was a OHK for the single target that it hit and sent shrapnel flying in the direction of the charge causing damage and slash procs to everything beyond the target. 

 

[-Defeater-]

 .

Edited May 26, 2017 by -Defeater-

[-Defeater-]

31 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Every frame can be outshined. Trinity has no cc, limbo is squishy outside the rift, Rhino cant kill anything above lvl 60. My point is...this is a good rework. Theres always goin to be someone who says otherwise...but pound for pound, obe can survive, destroy, and heal....not bad.

trin is a tank healer and a source of infinite energy. limbo is almost never out of the rift now that his dash puts him in it for 0 energy, the rift gives him energy, and hes got a cc to lock down entire rooms indefinitely. Rhino can most certainly kill level 145 enemies with 0 problems, has best damage buff in game, biggest aoe stun in game, and is tanky af. they all do everything oberon does better. any mission you can bring oberon, you can bring one of these frames and be a bigger asset. they want oberon to be jack of all trades and make him mediocre at everything while there are so many jack of all trade frames already in the game that can be modded also for specific purposes and are a clearly better pick in 99% of situations. theres no outshining these frames, theyre interchangeable, they all bring giant benefits to the team while oberon give only heal over time and minor cc, best case scenario you get some decent armor stripping, but in order to build for his 3 and 4, modding ends up being pretty much the same for all builds, rage flow efficiency and if you want to do high level stuff pheonix renewal is almost a must due to the fact you most likely will end up getting one shot while trying to get energy at a certain point. you probably need vitality in there too, so best case scenario you end up modding almost entirely for the drain on his 3rd ability, with 2 or 3 mod slots for power str and maybe stretch. meanwhile, trin can be modded for ev bless or a hybrid build with ease, theres infinite builds for rhino between focusing on roar cc or tankiness, limbo can be used for room locking or you can throw narrow minded on him for pod defense. being forced to mod for one ability on a jack of all trades frame doesnt make any sense.

[residente]

9 minutes ago, KnightCole said:

Naw, hes really not.  The best kind of crowd control is that which eliminates the crowd, so that there is no crowd to control, AKA: Killing the bastards. 

Yeah no that's not what Crowd Control is. By that rule Equinox and Mesa are the best Crowd Controllers in the game, lol.
There's no need for room clearing abilities when you have room clearing weapons. Stomp allows you to paralize the entire room and the next one.

9 minutes ago, KnightCole said:

His Roar is a joke to, I never noticed to much of an increase in damage out put.

Roar builds can give allies a minimum of 100-120% damage increase on everything, both guns and abilities. If that's a joke then it's a damn good joke.

9 minutes ago, KnightCole said:

Rhino is Iron Skin, hes easy street god mode.  Hes great for solo play, or for when you need to revive a teammate.  Good for a momentary pause in combat, but thats not great CC, when the rest of your team will just make the whole room vaporize.

Yeah, maybe if you're MR10. When you bring Rhino to serious content, Iron Skin is the most useless skill of his kit.

 

The only real issue with Rhino is, if you build for one skill, you can't use that well others: Solo build is high Power Str and high Efficiency. Buff build is high Duration and high Power Str. And Stopm build is high Duration and high Range. And that is not a problem per se, most frames suffer from this issue.

 

Not sure what kind of builds do you use on him or if you even have decent mods to put on him but I'm telling you, paralyzing everything 60 metters around you for 15 seconds is a really serious deal.

edit: anyway I thought this was about Oberon. Oberon is not even good at the things you're mentioning. He wont clean S#&$ with his low damage abilities and his crowd control is also a joke compared to Rhino's.

Edited May 26, 2017 by residente

[Leonix13]

14 hours ago, Hellmaker2004 said:

Yes this is true, and he can heal for a decent chunk as well. However it is extremely clunky and if you consider Chakram to be a good healing skill, then boy are you in for a surprise after you try Renewal or even Well of Life.

 

Also

He offers 200 Armor with Iron renewal before power strength, and it is currently effected by that. And 200 armor equals 200/(300+200) = 0.4

So he offers 40% Damage resistance with the default value of armor he grants. Now i agree that frames with high armor may not be as effected by this as other frames are due to diminishing returns, but saying that he offers pitiful DR may be a overstatement.

To be fair that armour is VERY subjective to the enemy, so no its not the same thing as actual DR.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

20 minutes ago, -Defeater- said:

trin is a tank healer and a source of infinite energy. limbo is almost never out of the rift now that his dash puts him in it for 0 energy, the rift gives him energy, and hes got a cc to lock down entire rooms indefinitely. Rhino can most certainly kill level 145 enemies with 0 problems, has best damage buff in game, biggest aoe stun in game, and is tanky af. they all do everything oberon does better. any mission you can bring oberon, you can bring one of these frames and be a bigger asset. they want oberon to be jack of all trades and make him mediocre at everything while there are so many jack of all trade frames already in the game that can be modded also for specific purposes and are a clearly better pick in 99% of situations. theres no outshining these frames, theyre interchangeable, they all bring giant benefits to the team while oberon give only heal over time and minor cc, best case scenario you get some decent armor stripping, but in order to build for his 3 and 4, modding ends up being pretty much the same for all builds, rage flow efficiency and if you want to do high level stuff pheonix renewal is almost a must due to the fact you most likely will end up getting one shot while trying to get energy at a certain point. you probably need vitality in there too, so best case scenario you end up modding almost entirely for the drain on his 3rd ability, with 2 or 3 mod slots for power str and maybe stretch. meanwhile, trin can be modded for ev bless or a hybrid build with ease, theres infinite builds for rhino between focusing on roar cc or tankiness, limbo can be used for room locking or you can throw narrow minded on him for pod defense. being forced to mod for one ability on a jack of all trades frame doesnt make any sense.

However, each one has a weakness... No frame is meant to be without balance.

Edited May 26, 2017 by (PS4)big_eviljak

[Obe-Ron-Kenobi]

Just now, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

However, each one has a weakness... No frame is meant to be eithout balance.

So Oberon's weakness is consistently not having energy when it's needed on a more caster oriented frame? 

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Just now, Oni_Spartan4 said:

So Oberon's weakness is consistently not having energy when it's needed on a more caster oriented frame? 

I have a -45% efficiency build and have zero problems with energy consumption... provided im not plsyin with a SOTD nekros.

I kill, heal, and do just fine. Its not perfect...leech eximus are always a bother but for the most part, no problems. Maybe the problem is with the user.

[-Defeater-]

Just now, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

However, each one has a weakness... No frame is meant to be without balance.

meanwhile, oberons weakness isnt in gameplay or being unlucky like getting caught by a insta kill while leaving the rift or iron skin for one second, his weakness is the need to mod him almost entirely for his 3, which i feel if youre going to play a frame, the challenge shouldnt come before you even get in a game. 

even then oberon has issues in gameplay with needing to be hit for rage energy, which like i said is playing chicken with going down at higher levels, and at lower levels it actually becomes a challenge to let enemies hit you, because chances are your team will be killing everything before you have the chance to get energy

 

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Just now, -Defeater- said:

meanwhile, oberons weakness isnt in gameplay or being unlucky like getting caught by a insta kill while leaving the rift or iron skin for one second, his weakness is the need to mod him almost entirely for his 3, which i feel if youre going to play a frame, the challenge shouldnt come before you even get in a game. 

even then oberon has issues in gameplay with needing to be hit for rage energy, which like i said is playing chicken with going down at higher levels, and at lower levels it actually becomes a challenge to let enemies hit you, because chances are your team will be killing everything before you have the chance to get energy

 

So noone has energy problems with any other frame? Not a single other frame runs out of energy ever? Hogwash

[-Defeater-]

1 minute ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

I have a -45% efficiency build and have zero problems with energy consumption... provided im not plsyin with a SOTD nekros.

I kill, heal, and do just fine. Its not perfect...leech eximus are always a bother but for the most part, no problems. Maybe the problem is with the user.

i threw blind rage half ranked on him, with -50% efficiency, so your numbers will be 5% better, but with that, its 3 energy a second, and 4.5 for every heal. this means, healing jsut yourself, youre taking up 7 energy a second. but chances are youre going to have a sentinel/pet which will also be getting shot, which is just over 10 energy a second when youre both being shot. then youu have 3 team mates, all with a sentinel or a pet, who will be getting hit, so youre going to be using 9 more energy per team mate. maybe they wont all be getting hit at once, but the possibility of losing over 30 energy a second, not including casting of hallowed ground or nekros shadows seems pretty hard to keep up unless youve got 2 energize sets constantly going off.

[KnightCole]

21 minutes ago, residente said:

Yeah no that's not what Crowd Control is. By that rule Equinox and Mesa are the best Crowd Controllers in the game, lol.
There's no need for room clearing abilities when you have room clearing weapons. Stomp allows you to paralize the entire room and the next one.

Roar builds can give allies a minimum of 100-120% damage increase on everything, both guns and abilities. If that's a joke then it's a damn good joke.

Yeah, maybe if you're MR10. When you bring Rhino to serious content, Iron Skin is the most useless skill of his kit.

 

The only real issue with Rhino is, if you build for one skill, you can't use that well others: Solo build is high Power Str and high Efficiency. Buff build is high Duration and high Power Str. And Stopm build is high Duration and high Range. And that is not a problem per se, most frames suffer from this issue.

 

Not sure what kind of builds do you use on him or if you even have decent mods to put on him but I'm telling you, paralyzing everything 60 metters around you for 15 seconds is a really serious deal.

edit: anyway I thought this was about Oberon. Oberon is not even good at the things you're mentioning. He wont clean S#&$ with his low damage abilities and his crowd control is also a joke compared to Rhino's.

Well, ive been playing a hellva lot more Oberon since his rework, and I can tell you, he smokes Rhino.  I look at my Rhino and go "meh", and go back to Oberon.  (I have 56% Rhino time), I used to love Rhino and played him basically exclusively.  Oberon is simply a better frame. 

Oberon is tougher then Rhino, in that he has the armor buff+healing+rage that gives him the sort of effective overall survivability I wish Rhino had.  Where Rhino gets his IS popped, there isnt much under neath, Oberon has a sustainable heal+armor buff that can be kept up basically forever.  My Oberon has only died a hand ful of times and that was because I wasnt paying attention and got hit by a mob that suddenly did ALOT more damage then the other mobs around me.  Namely: Supra Gunners, Bombards, and when I get my Heal turned off by a nully bubble(no I dont go skirting through them), but occasionally, I nick one in a heated battle.  Overall, Oberon's survivability is immense compared to both Rhino and the old Oberon. 

On Damage out put?  LOL Oberon does a S#&$ load more damage then Rhino.  Rhino cant kill a lvl 15 Corpus Moa with his stomp.  My Oberon kills entire rooms of Sedna grade Grineers and puts a world of hurt on the Heavies.  Yesterday, was on Oxomoco, my carpet alone, killed like 20 Corrupted in a matter of seconds.  It was actually surprising to see.  Oberon's damage output is immensely more powerful then it used to be. 

As for Crowd Control, yeah, just stunning mobs, making  them stand around looking pretty, thats good for a game like Everquest, WOW or something like that, but in this game, rapid dispatch of large groups of enemies is best crowd control.....simply make it where there is no crowd to control......so, yeah, I guess your right, Equinox and Mesa, best CC.  Nidus does a good job to. 

[Obe-Ron-Kenobi]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

So noone has energy problems with any other frame? Not a single other frame runs out of energy ever? Hogwash

>zenurik

[-Defeater-]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

So noone has energy problems with any other frame? Not a single other frame runs out of energy ever? Hogwash

im not saying no other frame runs out of energy, but most frames that have a a lot of energy usage either dont have drain abilities, making it posible to use trin/zenurik, or have channel abilities that take FAR less energy and allow them to kill everything for all the energy they want. needing rage on every oberon build is kind of a crutch that he has to walk on. on frames like inaros and nidus, they dont need rage, it supplements the build but isnt required

[nonbinarysunset]

Pretty happy with the hotfix tweaks to HG and Reckoning. Still think HG needs to give allies more incentive to stand on it, and still wish it was circular by default, but really I think the thing that needs the most consideration at the moment is Renewal still. It healing allies and their companions as it always has done is good, but I'd rather the base cost per second be higher and it not have the cost-per-target scaling. Or as a middle ground; it still scales per target, but the only targets that count for scaling are allied players and defense/rescue npcs. Ideally it'd still heal allied companions with no extra cost, and it can either heal summoned minions at a lower rate or not at all, I don't really mind there But at the moment the drain makes me want to stick to playing solo, or ask my friends not to cast SotD or Mind Control if they're on Nekros or Nyx, and having to ask someone not to use features of the frame their playing is kind of counter to my idea of fun.

On the topic of him being extremely energy hungry, the current incarnation is a cool idea thematically, and way better than the last one, but in his current state if I want to support people I'm playing with properly, or even stay alive consistently playing solo, I can't give up bringing a Sentinel with Vacuum. The energy orbs are way, way too important, and this is coming from someone with 10x Arcane Energize on their syandana with Oberon. And as Vacuum being a universal thing still seems unlikely, I wanna make a suggestion for an alternate passive that I think would help out a lot;

Quote

Righteousness/Internalized Resilience
Whenever Oberon has a melee weapon drawn he loses his shields, in exchange gaining an increase to his maximum hp equal to his maximum shields, and also increasing his threat level. While in this state, every 100 points of health he loses will grant 10 points of energy to himself and any allies within 15 meters.

So without Vitality/Vigor/Redirection slotted, he'd have 675 health to work with, and be able to restore 60 energy before dying without any healing going on. while Renewal is active, he'd obviously get more milage out of this, and it'd bolster any energy gained via Rage a little bit if that's slotted. I don't think 100 health = 10 energy is too overpowered, especially considering you have to invest very heavily in power strength to get renewal anywhere near 100 health per second recovery, but I could be wrong on that. Octavia's Inspiration is just a flat regen over 30 seconds without putting her survival at risk, after all. Maybe it would need to work at percentage based thresholds of his health, but then the more you invest in health the less effective it'd be, which seems kind of unfortunate.

(sidenote: maybe Mag's passive should be an innate 10% (or less) rage effect, but on her shields instead of her health? she has similar energy problems after all, and that'd be pretty thematic.)

Edited May 26, 2017 by glutularphysics
added clarity

[Leonix13]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

So noone has energy problems with any other frame? Not a single other frame runs out of energy ever? Hogwash

Iron Renewal and Phoenix Renewal both require Renewal to be active at all times to work, thats kinda the hiccup.

[(PSN)XxDarkyanxX]

8 minutes ago, -Defeater- said:

meanwhile, oberons weakness isnt in gameplay or being unlucky like getting caught by a insta kill while leaving the rift or iron skin for one second, his weakness is the need to mod him almost entirely for his 3, which i feel if youre going to play a frame, the challenge shouldnt come before you even get in a game. 

even then oberon has issues in gameplay with needing to be hit for rage energy, which like i said is playing chicken with going down at higher levels, and at lower levels it actually becomes a challenge to let enemies hit you, because chances are your team will be killing everything before you have the chance to get energy

He's actually somewhat versatile when modding,
Mini nuke,
Health battery
CC
Damage buff
Instant revival support

Most players going for his 3 is just about the same as Everyone going for Ev Trinity, it's only like that because it's overrated.
Keeping Renewal up isn't a necessity, it's just a good idea in general, which mean you have plenty of energy usage for the other 3 powers.

Edited May 26, 2017 by (PS4)XxDarkyanxX

[Leonix13]

Also why does Renewal have a flat heal when 90% of the time you are only using the HoT?

[-Defeater-]

Just now, (PS4)XxDarkyanxX said:

He's actually somewhat versatile when modding,
Mini nuke,
Health battery
CC
Damage buff
Instant revival support

Most players going for his 3 is just about the same as Everyone going for Ev Trinity, it's only like that because it's overrated.
Keeping Renewal up isn't a necessity, it's just a good idea in general, which mean you have plenty of energy usage for the other 3 powers.

i wouldnt call it a nuke, its ok cc and now does some decent armor stripping, but anything lvl 40 and over theres little chance youre going to be donig any major damage with it. him having a health battery and not a lot of health doesnt help the situation, making vitality required if youre going to be playing sorties with him. you end up coming close to death trying to get energy. if you dont play him to heal with his 3, i feel there are better choices of frames. pretty much all he has going for him is that health over time, which granted not many other frames can do in such a large radius, and i say large but i find it hard getting everyone with the buff if you dont get it out right at the start of a mission. that leaves his cc, which there are better picks for

[(PSN)toaha48]

great I was just about done with my Oberon video now I need to wait for this to come on ps4 and redo it but maybe i'll just show my build here hope you can all see it still new to putting pictures on forums thing

Edited May 26, 2017 by (PS4)toaha48

[(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam]

Seeing Oberon just get better and better is amazing i love it.

Also Rhino is a really great support tank as well dunno why we need to put 1 frame down to praise another lol. In fact those two would synergize great in a team. IR n iron skin. Roar + anything oberon does lol. Hallowed reckoning + stomp to freeze em on the Hallowed reckoning lol.

[-Defeater-]

1 minute ago, MarrikBroom said:

I like this as it fits thematicly, encourages a playstyle that puts Oberon as a defender.

this would be nice but if they just gave him close to nidus health with no sheilds to start it would be an easier fix. i like the idea of shields turning into health but i think thats too much to ask DE for since im fairly certain theyre done with him at this point.