Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[Music4Therapy]

13 minutes ago, Koed said:

Agreed. The only reason I put Tank in there was with solo play in mind. It's quite meta as well to be tanky.

 

The funny thing is, we are talking about how Healing/Tanking aren't major factors in Warframe and those were the biggest additions to Oberon's kit post rework. 

Outside of healing/armor buffs he received some scaling damage on his 1 and some some armor stripping that isn't consistent enough to actually be relevant. Because he lacks any means of producing energy within his kit like other synergistic combo-casters ala Nidus, Limbo, Octavia, and Saryn he struggles to actually keep up his healing which costs an additional 5 e/s per ally effected by it.

IMO, if they were to make his kit less energy gated by making ways within his kit to produce energy I can see ways that a rng+str build could work on him if they tweak the numbers some more, very similar to Nidus. But right now, I feel like he requires Rage in order to function and I can't imagine playing him without max Efficiency, as well.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[Scarmeow]

I'm seeing a lot of people criticizing Oberon and his rework both here in the forums and in game. Some people make valid points and some not so much. I'm not here to point fingers or call anyone out.

The general concensus is that Oberon needs to specialize in one area or another. Ok.... and? I have seen very little (reasonable) suggestions as to how to make this happen. Some people want him to nuke, some want a tank, some want a healer, some just criticize everything about him without offering ANY suggestions which is honestly the least helpful of all.

Some think he should be a viable healer, tank, damage dealer, and dedicated CC all in one package. But where would that leave other frames? If Oberon could heal like Trinity, tank like Rhino, nuke like Ember, and CC like Vauban what would be the point of using any of those frames?

He may not be top-tier in any one area but there is nothing inherently wrong with that. Many other games have a "jack of all trades" characters that are well received. I'm just so curious about why everyone hates on Oberon so much.

[Music4Therapy]

7 minutes ago, Scarmeow said:

I'm seeing a lot of people criticizing Oberon and his rework both here in the forums and in game. Some people make valid points and some not so much. I'm not here to point fingers or call anyone out.

The general concensus is that Oberon needs to specialize in one area or another. Ok.... and? I have seen very little (reasonable) suggestions as to how to make this happen. Some people want him to nuke, some want a tank, some want a healer, some just criticize everything about him without offering ANY suggestions which is honestly the least helpful of all.

Some think he should be a viable healer, tank, damage dealer, and dedicated CC all in one package. But where would that leave other frames? If Oberon could heal like Trinity, tank like Rhino, nuke like Ember, and CC like Vauban what would be the point of using any of those frames?

He may not be top-tier in any one area but there is nothing inherently wrong with that. Many other games have a "jack of all trades" characters that are well received. I'm just so curious about why everyone hates on Oberon so much.

Despite my criticism of the frame, with the tools DE gave him he really does have the potential to be great.

The issue is that unlike other frames that rely on synergy in their kit such as Saryn, Nidus, Octavia, and Limbo he doesn't have ways in his kit to produce the energy to fuel his VERY high cost combos. Max efficiency and Rage are p much required on him. If he had an energy gain mechanic he wouldn't be required to use 3-4 mod slots (Streamline, Fleeting Expertise, Rage, Primed Flow) on energy and at the minimum 1 addition mod on range and would instead be able to invest in other stats. He has the potential to be a mass armor stripping, support frame if only he wasn't so highly gated by severe energy deprivation.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[Koed]

4 minutes ago, Scarmeow said:

I'm seeing a lot of people criticizing Oberon and his rework both here in the forums and in game. Some people make valid points and some not so much. I'm not here to point fingers or call anyone out.

The general concensus is that Oberon needs to specialize in one area or another. Ok.... and? I have seen very little (reasonable) suggestions as to how to make this happen. Some people want him to nuke, some want a tank, some want a healer, some just criticize everything about him without offering ANY suggestions which is honestly the least helpful of all.

Some think he should be a viable healer, tank, damage dealer, and dedicated CC all in one package. But where would that leave other frames? If Oberon could heal like Trinity, tank like Rhino, nuke like Ember, and CC like Vauban what would be the point of using any of those frames?

He may not be top-tier in any one area but there is nothing inherently wrong with that. Many other games have a "jack of all trades" characters that are well received. I'm just so curious about why everyone hates on Oberon so much.

I made a post yesterday about possible solutions that got put in to the megathread but I will gladly offer suggestions.

Passive: When Oberon is in your squad enemies have a much higher chance to drop health orbs/Enemies affected by radiation do that. Health Conversion and Equlibrium can now be used = He is 500% better.

Delete hallowed ground and all backup files related to it.

Make renewal only use energy when actually healing, lower cooldown from Phoenix Renewal to 30 seconds and let it be a cooldown for the one who goes down, give more armor like 300-500 with no need for other abilities, up the range to the level of Trinity.

Reckoning is now his 3 and strips between 40-60% armor.

New 4th ability: Anything really. I've seen suggestions for an Exalted Shield which sounds cool. The thing though is, that DE won't make a new ability so it seems kinda pointless to be too creative. We could have hallowed grounds be a 25m aoe that granted damage reduction using traditional duration - either as a carpet or an aura that followed Oberon.

[Music4Therapy]

If Oberon had a legit, great energy gain mechanic similar to Limbo or Nidus he wouldn't be required to use 4-5 mod slots on atleast 1 range mod and Streamline/Fleeting Expertise/Rage/Primed Flow and would be abe to invest more in other stats. He has the potential to be an amazing armor-stripping, support, CC frame if only he didn't suffer of severe energy deprivation. With an awesome energy production mechanic like Limbo or Nidus, he has the potential to be a really solid frame.

[LazyKnight]

8 hours ago, LuckyCharm said:

Oberon is the master of status removal. Not always important but has bailed my butt out of trouble more than once. 

That's another thing, that I think he was balanced around and that too is sorta of in a weird place. A few of the more durable warframes can become immune to status effects and the less durable ones simply can't survive the damage that applied the status effect in the first place.

8 hours ago, LuckyCharm said:

His armor buff is a little underrated here imo. You're pretty much giving your squishies an extra 40% damage reduction just for free while theyre being healed up. Sure its no trin but its the only non % increase i can see which makes it golden for frames like trin or banshee with their 10 base armor. 

His armor buff is rated. It's only good on something that already has armor, so it then pushes the armor into a higher DR range. 

In order for his armor buff to give a meaningful impact, it has to give at least 450 armor (60% DR) to a Warframe with 15 armor for it to function. That currently requires Oberon to have 225% power strength listed in the Ui.  I know 450 armor seems like a lot, but 40% DR is not worth the energy cost.

It would be a great effect if it did not use as much of Oberon's energy. 

P.S. I put 229% before because it's what a maxed blind rage and intensify would yield. 

Edited April 29, 2017 by LazyKnight

[LokiTheCondom]

Can we seriously convince the devs to let Reckoning make enemies drop health orbs from being primed by it rather being killed by it.

[Music4Therapy]

Let's be real guys, if we were able to drop a load of power strength and range with some duration on Oberon like we can on Nidus we'd actually have a very solid frame. He has too many required mods though. Couple that with the energy drain on his Renewal and the fact that he needs to use Hallowed Ground in order to benefit from the high cost synergies in his kit and he is energy deprived without some kind of energy mechanic. He has the potential to be an awesome armor stripping, front line support if DE implements a great energy gain mechanic.

The fact that he needs atleast 1 range mod and 3-4 energy mods (Streamline, Fleeting Expertise, Rage, Primed Flow) holds him back. Not counting the exilus slot, that only leaves him with only 3-4 slots for survivability, augments, and much needed strength and duration.

If he had a way to gain energy in his kit like other frames that are heavily combo reliant like Saryn, Limbo, and Nidus that would free up mod space and allow him to truly excel.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[n_0x]

And to compound on that note of "Oberon being the master of status removal"  big reminder that you have to stay on HG to continually benefit from it meanwhile Titania let's you run around with status immunity free to do whatever you please with it.

[Epitheton]

Here's my feedback/suggestions for Oberon.

Armour increased to 300 (or more, more is good).

1. Smite’s damage feels weaker than it was for starchart content and feels like it is only better than before (not by much) on high-level enemies. Smite’s scaling damage should not be distributed evenly among wisps as it makes building for power strength worse with it also increasing the number of wisps created. Smite instead blinds the target instead of knocking them down. Since Smite already inflicts radiation procs it can friendly fire. This way the smote target takes more damage if followed up with melee because of stealth multipliers. Wisps should do pure radiation damage because it is a wisp and because it is a wisp it should have a chance to also inflict radiation proc.

2. Hallowed Ground costs a considerable 50 energy to cast for primarily status immunity over a less than ideal area. And to gain it’s effects you must be standing on it and the radiation procs feel almost negligible when irradiated enemies can still kill you. Hallowed Ground should be cast as a full circle centered on Oberon and its base radius increased to that of Reckoning’s. To keep the synergy aspect while making it being remotely useful alone, allies on Hallowed Ground are clad in Hallowed Fire, gaining invulnerability for the initial brief duration (think Rhino's Iron Skin), granting power strength and damage reduction indefinitely but has a lingering duration when outside Hallowed Ground. This way, not only Oberon is stronger inside Hallowed Ground but so are his allies. Unpopular opinion: I don’t think Hallowed Ground should ever be an aura, it just needs other things to make it feel strong and useful.

3. As much as I like the toggle, Oberon has an energy pool of 150 like most fighters and has very little means to sustain it aside from Rage and Energy orbs while toggled. And as you would know, if you’re drained of energy, you stop providing regeneration to your allies. I suggest Renewal to send out a wave (as currently is) with increased range and travel speed that heals on contact and grants a health regeneration buff for a good duration. This is removes the energy drain from healing multiple allies while the regeneration remains in effect in the case you get drained of energy. If Oberon casts Renewal while standing on Hallowed Ground, Renewal also grants the Hallowed Fire buff, meaning allies can get the buff or a refresh of it, invulnerability included, some distance away from Oberon and his Hallowed Ground.

4. Remove the bonus damage on irradiated targets with Hallowed Fire granting power strength. Armour stripping should not require enemies to be standing on Hallowed Ground. Still thinking of something to improve it.

With these changes I'm sure he'd be far less energy reliant and should curb the need to increase his energy pool because I feel that he is foremost a fighter with some caster capability.

This is all for now.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Epitheton

[LokiTheCondom]

4 minutes ago, n_0x said:

And to compound on that note of "Oberon being the master of status removal"  big reminder that you have to stay on HG to continually benefit from it meanwhile Titania let's you run around with status immunity free to do whatever you please with it.

If I'm not mistaken, Renewal removes status chance too once you reach full health.

[n_0x]

It does but it's a difference between detroying an energy pool and waiting just to get rid of a status versus hitting 1 by a teammate.

[LOD07]

For me personaly Oberon has great potential to be a solid all around Warframe.

 

But even after the rework he seems to me very squishy and energythirssty for nothing.

My thoughts about a Revisit, not a Rework:

 

1. Ability Smite

                  Reduces the current health of the targeted enemy by 5/10/20% and and deals a fixed Dmg of 200/300/500.

 

[Gravitus123]

His ability range is also too short without using max range which nerfs the % of radiation proc chance,amount of healing,armor gain and armor stripping

[LokiTheCondom]

Nope, Smite is fine as it is. 

Renewal and Reckoning needs more attention as of now.

[Gemenai]

1 - Is okay-ish.

2 - Needs more frontal length, to the sides the spread is good. Why was there a need to limit the amount of 2s simultaneous active to 4? Before i could lay down as many carpets as I wanted - there's no need for a limit here!

3 - 40 health/sec. is rather weak, especially with Oberons low base armor value. The additional armor from his "synergy" with his 2 doesn't change that noteworthy - a percentagewise dmg reduction would be much better here.

The range is also pitifull - I would have to call my team to my position, wait for them to stand on my 2 and then cast my 3. The range should be unlimited like before the "rework" and give allies the iron renewal buff as long as I the caster stand on my 2 at the time of my 3 reaching them. Before the "rework" I could cast my 3 and prolong the bleed out timer, as I was making my way towards the downed teammate, while also figuring out the relative distance between me and that teammate based on the time the projectile needed to reach said teammate. Now I can just hope to get there in time, as it is not always guaranteed, that my team has my renewal buff on them.

4 - Needs more range just like before the "rework". The damage was never a real issue in my eyes, as it was allways :turd: - I used it mainly for cc and to apply the radiation status on enemies. Now I can do even more damage with it if a target is radiated, which is nice, but not needed - especially as I am now even more cautios about spending my energy with how his 3 works. I use my 4 way less then before the "rework" and way less than I would actually want to.

passive - Is a sidegrade to the previous one, but not that good in the end (like the previous one). If I would make a change, it would be to combine those 2 passives.

Additionally those animals under your control should have their stats scaled to an appropriate level to make a dent in that mission and also get the non race specific mods of your kubrow/kavat. Those mods would be applied with with a lesser mod lvl, as well as the behaviour of those animals would be the same as your companion. If you have a Raksa kubrow, then they would be more defensive, while with a Sunika as companion, they would act more aggressiv. The duration for those animals under your controll should get extended to 40 sec. and the range for the passive to take effect should also get a slight increase.

Another solution would be to just allow Oberon users to have 2 companions of the same species active at the same time. An Oberon user could aquire a second incubator, which would be active only while using Oberon. This would not only allow to have 2 companions at the same time, but also 1 active companion and 1 just roaming the ship and providing Oberon with a real unique passive among the other available warframes.

 

All in all Oberon wants to spend energy like there is no tomorrow, energy he doesn't have not even with primed flow. He is still squishy, even with his "iron" renewal and he lacks range on his 2,3 and 4. On his 3 even more than before the "rework" as it has now a limited range instead of the unlimited range, projectile based variant like before.

He can do a bit more damage now, which is nice but shouldn't be the main priority with Oberon, as he isn't a "damage frame" but a jack of all traits, whos role it is to supplement his team and support it, while preventing damage via direct and indirect means.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Gemenai

[Koed]

12 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

'Give them an inch and they want a mile.' {DE}Scott.

I'll be honest - I wasn't too thrilled about that comment either.

[LokiTheCondom]

14 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

'Give them an inch and they want a mile.' {DE}Scott.

I don't see where he's coming from. i want to, but considering I play Oberon all the time MAYBE his kit would be OK... if he had an infinitely large energy pool to let him spam like the current iteration seems to want to. As is any positives of his kit (Renewal being a Super Regen is a neat trick, Smite's damage is *Shrug* but it offers great knockdown and a quick 'oh that guy? DOWN!' for cheap, and Hallowed Ground's area coverage got a nice buff.

 

My problem is none of that matters becauseI can't use any of it because I'm constantly energy starved.

More like giving us rubbish when we want a decent meal. What's so hard about tuning a frame they've been ignoring for so bloody long to actually scale into higher levels? 

[Gelkor]

Kinda echoing the thoughts of others here that Oberon definitely feels like he needs some kind of energy rebate or regeneration mechanic.

Like, enemies who die on hallowed ground spawn energy orbs or something.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Gelkor

[Argentus]

Its not like Oberon was a super useful on a battlefield to begin with.

Somehow they mange to make him even worse.

On the other hand, Hydroid is not the worse warframe right now.

Do I need to emphasize, that I dislike this rework?

[LazyKnight]

16 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

I just hope i'm genuinely reeading too much into that and it's my paranoia and cynicism talking, but I'm afraid the 'let's give it a weekend to cook' is polite talk for 'we want you to stop talking because we're not doing anything. We'll act like we will just to make you shut up.'

I did not get that vibe from the stream. He wants to see a consensus after a few days on what is wrong and if there is one he'll do some tweaks.  That's the biggie, it wasn't clear what was wrong because people were asking for a bunch of different things in different directions.

If he was done with Oberon he wouldn't have bothered to make it clear he'll take a look over the topics on it next week. 

 

Edited April 29, 2017 by LazyKnight

[Fallen_Echo]

3 hours ago, Koed said:

ok healing but impractical since units might die before actually healing the squad.

Im maybe wrong here but since when inaros has any tricks to heal squad members?

 

On a sidenote i agree with what you wrote, Oberon is the one what most people call "true" jack of all trades.

A guy who could handle anything at low levels but fails insanely fast as enemies become "tougher"

[LokiTheCondom]

Just now, Fallen_Echo said:

Im maybe wrong here but since when inaros has any tricks to heal squad members?

 

On a sidenote i agree with what you wrote, Oberon is the one what most people call "true" jack of all trades.

A guy who could handle anything at low levels but fails insanely fast as enemies become "tougher"

His Smite is insane now tho, wrecks Level 120 Juggernaut easily.

As for Inaros, Scarab Swarm.

[Fallen_Echo]

1 minute ago, LokiTheCondom said:

His Smite is insane now tho, wrecks Level 120 Juggernaut easily. Gonna test this out.

As for Inaros, Scarab Swarm.

Care to explain? I never noticed scarab swarm doing anything for my teammates.

[LokiTheCondom]

Just now, Fallen_Echo said:

Care to explain? I never noticed scarab swarm doing anything for my teammates.

When you launch the scarab to leach enemy health, it heals nearby allies.