Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[Zeclem]

30 minutes ago, InsanityKey said:

Except he really doesn't.  A.  You have to be standing on the disc whenever Oberon randomly decides to cast his Renewal or you get nothing B.  Renewal's range isn't even that far so unless you're all huddled together in a tight ball you won't be getting heals most of the time anyway.  And I never said he was on per-nerf Limbo level.  I'm simply saying he's not good enough to really merit taking.  Anything he can do another frame could do better, even if it's via a different method.  I personally really like Oberon, I've always liked him, he's still my most played frame from back in the day.  But as things have gone on he's just fallen off, and I'm not saying this rework is "bad" for him but that it's not nearly enough.  Every other frame that got a rework made people actually want to play that frame again and it was enjoyable, Oberon got a few QOL tweaks and then they pushed him on his way.  The Oberon "rework" could have just as easily been in any random patch notes in the "Changes" section.  I'm not mad about the changes, I'm mad that this means Oberon's not gonna get touched for however long again and he was barely improved.

1-yeeaaah except you do get quite a large amount of healing. and hallowed ground has a massive range with just stretch. its not that hard to not get the buff even in random pubs.

2-....dude renewal doesnt have a short range. its base is 25 which is like pretty damn large so stop making S#&$ up. 

3-read properly cus ive never said you saw him as pre nerf limbo dumbass.

none of the crap youre sprouting makes any sense. literally no frame in this game can do as much useful stuff at once as oberon. this rework only made him stronger in that field. but then why do i even take you seriously? you claim trin has cc and rad procs are useless cus they only work when theres more than a single target and many more other stupidities. 

im seriously sick of this games community when it comes to balance, especially cus of people like you in forums. you have absolutely 0 idea what youre talking about yet you still claim you do. go learn how to play first. in fact, just go away. that would do just fine.

Edited May 9, 2017 by Zeclem

[Ceadeus]

26 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

No, she does NOT offer more, that's the whole point of my comment.

She is better at what she offers, but Oberon offers MORE.

You are missing or maybe activly ignoring my entire point in your banter...

 

Offering 50 cents in various coins is not offering me more than offering 1 dollar in a single bill

[Ceadeus]

Just now, Hopakkiin said:

yes. That's how it works. How else are you going to soak up more damage?

By having abilities and inherent stats that make you a tank like Rhino, Chroma, Frost, etc

[45neo]

10 minutes ago, InsanityKey said:

Well, there's also the fact that we can either compare these 2 by themselves or in a hypothetical team.  Solo, I would give the damage category to Trin, because of the fact that she replenishes all the resources she's consuming to do that damage while also keeping herself alive, where Oberon does minimal damage, only a few seconds of CC, and is typically VERY power hungry meaning he'll quickly get overwhelmed.  If we compare them in a team, then I give the CC category to Trin, because by CC'ing enemies with EV or WoL, you'd be giving your teammates the means to kill off the enemies for you without a problem, where Oberon's CC really only delays things for a little bit, save for the one enemy you might be able to pull off a finisher on before they're recovered.

wrong Oberon does have better cc the thing is that trin has WAYYYYYY better support.

[p3z1]

12 minutes ago, InsanityKey said:

Well, there's also the fact that we can either compare these 2 by themselves or in a hypothetical team.  Solo,

Contradictory statement right there.

12 minutes ago, InsanityKey said:

 I would give the damage category to Trin, because of the fact that she replenishes all the resources she's consuming to do that damage while also keeping herself alive, where Oberon does minimal damage, only a few seconds of CC, and is typically VERY power hungry meaning he'll quickly get overwhelmed.

Minimal damage. Pls refer to Smite (PERCENT DAMAGE). About energy, sure you make your point. This is why energy plates exist. And so does rage and zenurik. CC portion though, trinity can only lock down 2 enemies with her 1 and 2. Oberon can spam knockdowns in 1 and 4 and unreliable rad procs on 2. In a 1v1 scenario trinity wins, but in a mob set-up (lots of enemies, typical in warframe), do you think trinity can lock down all those enemies, or at least stagger them all?

12 minutes ago, InsanityKey said:

If we compare them in a team, then I give the CC category to Trin, because by CC'ing enemies with EV or WoL, you'd be giving your teammates the means to kill off the enemies for you without a problem, where Oberon's CC really only delays things for a little bit, save for the one enemy you might be able to pull off a finisher on before they're recovered.

EV builds have low duration usually. Tell me how 4 seconds of CC to up to 2 targets compare against a ROOM-WIDE KNOCKDOWN + RAD PROC. Team effort? Slowva and Oberon (MP-reckoning) and Frost and Oberon (reckoning in snowglobe) are a few examples.

Now let's go to builds. I assume your EV Trinity has low duration, meaning you have minimal time on link and blessing DR numbers, compensated with decent range and high power str. You'll lock down 2 enemies in less than 10 seconds (ave. 5 seconds). Meanwhile a max-range/efficiency Oberon can just chokeslam enemies while he gains energy from an external source. Oberon casts 1 skill, while Trinity needs 2 AND aiming to boot.

I'm not saying Oberon is in a good state. I am pointing out his role in a team.

2 minutes ago, 45neo said:

Also in terms of healing yes sometimes you need healing over time and revives are nice but free energy INSTANT healing and a damage reduction buff are not just situational. In other words 9 out of 10 instances the instant full healing and damage reduction will be better than healing over time and the free energy is useful in all circumstances. Meanwhile Oberon's renewal is useful mostly in mid  tier missions where periodic instant healing + damage reduction accomplish the same effect. Not to mention that in it's current state renewal drains A TON of energy when you have a lot of  allies causes the ability to last for only about 2 seconds.... so much for a continuous heal....

This is why I gave that to Trinity. I am saying that Oberon does situational healing, while trinity doesn't.

[Ceadeus]

1 minute ago, Zeclem said:

1-yeeaaah except you do get quite a large amount of healing. and hallowed ground has a massive range with just stretch. its not that hard to not get the buff even in random pubs.

2-....dude renewal doesnt have a short range. its base is 25 which is like pretty damn large so stop making S#&$ up. 

3-read properly cus ive never said you saw him as pre nerf limbo dumbass.

none of the crap youre sprouting makes any sense. literally no frame in this game can do as much useful stuff at once as oberon. this rework only made him stronger in that field. but then why do i even take you seriously? you claim trin has cc and rad procs are useless cus they only work when theres a single target and many more other stupidities. 

im seriously sick of this games community when it comes to balance, especially cus of people like you in forums. you have absolutely 0 idea what youre talking about yet you still claim you do. go learn how to play first. in fact, just go away. that would do just fine.

 

1.  Maybe for passive heals, sure, but under fire that does just about nothing.  And I think "massive" is a bit of an overstatement, not even considering the fact that unless you're in a point defense mission most people won't slow down long enough to stand on the carpet for your buff anyway.

2.  25 is pretty short.  Again for anything other than point defense you're gonna be struggling.

3.

21 minutes ago, InsanityKey said:

sorry not every frame is on pre-nerf limbo level.

And no, I said the exact opposite, I said it DOESN'T work if there's a single target.  So judging by those last two comments I'd say you're the one who doesn't know what you're talking about.  Also you're getting real mad, real fast.

[Hopakkiin]

1 minute ago, InsanityKey said:

By having abilities and inherent stats that make you a tank like Rhino, Chroma, Frost, etc

Rhino is one of the most brain-dead frames out there, and you still need mods to make all of these "tanks" capable of tanking. Don't argue against Mods. Every frame needs them and every Frame will die, while Standing still and doing nothing, so yeah, you need to seek cover every now and then.

[(PSN)TrollyThyTrinity]

We Dont have to Defend Oberon People Found a way to make Him Work For "Them"i

Bringing up Smite his First power with a 25 energy cost. 

You Hear Scale and you want a One Shot or Stripped Armor 

DE didnt Create the Meta You Did.

the Problems not Oberon Trust me 

[Ceadeus]

4 minutes ago, 45neo said:

wrong Oberon does have better cc the thing is that trin has WAYYYYYY better support.

Oberon has better raw CC, but if I offer to freeze the room for 4 seconds 2 times, or consistently lock down the most dangerous targets for the duration of the mission while giving you the resources to kill or survive all the rest, it's pretty clear which is gonna wind up being more useful.

[Zeclem]

Just now, InsanityKey said:

1.  Maybe for passive heals, sure, but under fire that does just about nothing.  And I think "massive" is a bit of an overstatement, not even considering the fact that unless you're in a point defense mission most people won't slow down long enough to stand on the carpet for your buff anyway.

2.  25 is pretty short.  Again for anything other than point defense you're gonna be struggling.

3.

And no, I said the exact opposite, I said it DOESN'T work if there's a single target.  So judging by those last two comments I'd say you're the one who doesn't know what you're talking about.  Also you're getting real mad, real fast.

1-when youre under heavy fire not even trins heal can save you cus you will get oneshotted. at least oberon can actually give you res/bleedout time. let me know when trin is capable of doing that.

2-25 is short? i think you failed to read properly again. ITS A BASE RANGE FOR A LOT OF ABILITIES IN GAME IF NOT MOST. its not short youre just making S#&$ up to prove your point or just really dont know that you should stick with your squad which is a git gud problem, not oberon problem.

"And I never said he was on per-nerf Limbo level.  I'm simply saying he's not good enough to really merit taking." this is what you said. 

"sorry not every frame is on pre-nerf limbo level. " this is what i said. i said cus people keep S#&$ting on the rework for their lack of game sense and expecting every rework to produce an absolute op frame like limbos rework did before he got nerfed afterwards. and what i did was a typo. i didnt have proper sleep yet and dumb people like you on this forums get on my nerves with their idiotic commentary so excuse me.

[45neo]

1 minute ago, p3z1 said:

Contradictory statement right there.

Minimal damage. Pls refer to Smite (PERCENT DAMAGE). 

Yes exactly the percentage damage trinity does is MORE than the percentage damage that of Oberon's smite. I meant what I said and have made no contradictions.

 

4 minutes ago, p3z1 said:

 

CC portion though, trinity can only lock down 2 enemies with her 1 and 2. Oberon can spam knockdowns in 1 and 4 and unreliable rad procs on 2. In a 1v1 scenario trinity wins, but in a mob set-up (lots of enemies, typical in warframe), do you think trinity can lock down all those enemies, or at least stagger them all?

EV builds have low duration usually. Tell me how 4 seconds of CC to up to 2 targets compare against a ROOM-WIDE KNOCKDOWN + RAD PROC. Team effort? Slowva and Oberon (MP-reckoning) and Frost and Oberon (reckoning in snowglobe) are a few examples.

Now let's go to builds. I assume your EV Trinity has low duration, meaning you have minimal time on link and blessing DR numbers, compensated with decent range and high power str. You'll lock down 2 enemies in less than 10 seconds (ave. 5 seconds). Meanwhile a max-range/efficiency Oberon can just chokeslam enemies while he gains energy from an external source. Oberon casts 1 skill, while Trinity needs 2 AND aiming to boot.

 

um..... I said that i agreed that Oberon has superior cc didn't I?

5 minutes ago, p3z1 said:

 

This is why I gave that to Trinity. I am saying that Oberon does situational healing, while trinity doesn't.

Actually in your post you did not mention who won that category saying 

28 minutes ago, p3z1 said:

Healing:
- Trinity can heal from anywhere, instantly. EV gives energy.
- Oberon can heal anywhere, albeit regen. Augmented heal can revive. I can use energy plates to give energy to allies.
- Depends on needs really. Sometimes you need full heal, sometimes regen.

this does not look like a decisive category.

[Chewarette]

42 minutes ago, InsanityKey said:

The part about mass control might be true if his kit didn't glitch out all the time, not properly locking down enemies during the animation and letting them come up and smack you and your teammates, and since he can't do much damage at all, they can do it pretty much without any consequence because you'll go down a lot faster than they will.  As far as his tanking goes, I disagree.  From what I've seen Oberon does not "tank".  You can not run into a group of enemies and expect to survive easily.  Oberon has passive heals that allow him to recover from the damage you take if you play him carefully.  His mechanic is similar to taking cover in an FPS once your screen starts flashing red.  You can't tank, you just aren't guaranteed to die after you take enough damage like frames without healing are.

Well, I never had any issues with Reckoning. Check your connection, maybe. It always stunlocked everything at its full range for me. Well, except Bubbled Nullis (of course) and Flying Nightmares that are immune to nearly everything, but hey, that's the problem of every frame.

Regarding his tanking, I tried it yesterday. Rage + Quick Thinking + Renewal and you're basically invincible...

[Ceadeus]

3 minutes ago, p3z1 said:

Contradictory statement right there.

Minimal damage. Pls refer to Smite (PERCENT DAMAGE). About energy, sure you make your point. This is why energy plates exist. And so does rage and zenurik. CC portion though, trinity can only lock down 2 enemies with her 1 and 2. Oberon can spam knockdowns in 1 and 4 and unreliable rad procs on 2. In a 1v1 scenario trinity wins, but in a mob set-up (lots of enemies, typical in warframe), do you think trinity can lock down all those enemies, or at least stagger them all?

EV builds have low duration usually. Tell me how 4 seconds of CC to up to 2 targets compare against a ROOM-WIDE KNOCKDOWN + RAD PROC. Team effort? Slowva and Oberon (MP-reckoning) and Frost and Oberon (reckoning in snowglobe) are a few examples.

Now let's go to builds. I assume your EV Trinity has low duration, meaning you have minimal time on link and blessing DR numbers, compensated with decent range and high power str. You'll lock down 2 enemies in less than 10 seconds (ave. 5 seconds). Meanwhile a max-range/efficiency Oberon can just chokeslam enemies while he gains energy from an external source. Oberon casts 1 skill, while Trinity needs 2 AND aiming to boot.

I'm not saying Oberon is in a good state. I am pointing out his role in a team.

This is why I gave that to Trinity. I am saying that Oberon does situational healing, while trinity doesn't.

 

That wasn't contradictory, that was just two different ways I was saying we could look at it...

And I'm not sure if you're aware but Trin's abilities also scale with enemy health.  Hence why I can do 5,000 damage per tick on the bigger enemies with Trin.  As far as energy costs go, waiting for an energy plate in a swarm of enemies like you're saying is not going to get you much and will likely get you killed, where Trinity can cover a massive portion of the map in hundreds of energy per second.  She doesn't need to lock them all down because she can easily survive them all and let her team survive them and give them the resources to kill them.

The build might have low duration, but that's not what matters, the important part is the animation length, which doesn't give a S#&$ about your build.  That's why it's spam-casted.  And Oberon's abilities are prone to glitching out and not properly knocking down or even grabbing their targets in the first place, which gives them plenty of time to run up and smack you in the face for your long cast-times.

[45neo]

5 minutes ago, InsanityKey said:

Oberon has better raw CC, but if I offer to freeze the room for 4 seconds 2 times, or consistently lock down the most dangerous targets for the duration of the mission while giving you the resources to kill or survive all the rest, it's pretty clear which is gonna wind up being more useful.

and Oberon ALSO locks the most important targets up with his ult. as well as the trah mobs.... if it were not for the massive amount of energy it requires Oberon could easily stunlock a room with his ult (including said priority targets).

[Ceadeus]

6 minutes ago, Hopakkiin said:

Rhino is one of the most brain-dead frames out there, and you still need mods to make all of these "tanks" capable of tanking. Don't argue against Mods. Every frame needs them and every Frame will die, while Standing still and doing nothing, so yeah, you need to seek cover every now and then.

 

I know, and I'm not saying you're not allowed to use mods or whatever.  But you can't use them to say your frame is a tank, because then I can slap them on every other frame and they're all proportionally the same as they were without the mods.  The point of tanks is that they inherently have the ability to stay in the fight longer.

[Ceadeus]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)Nzza_News said:

We Dont have to Defend Oberon People Found a way to make Him Work For "Them"i

Bringing up Smite his First power with a 25 energy cost. 

You Hear Scale and you want a One Shot or Stripped Armor 

DE didnt Create the Meta You Did.

the Problems not Oberon Trust me 

 

What?  No.  I don't want him to one-shot things, but I also don't want every single one of his abilities to do less damage than a single shot of my primary (Which can proc better CC statuses more reliably)  The problem is very much Oberon.  Again, I didn't say it was impossible to play him, but that he's not nearly what he should be.

[Hopakkiin]

2 minutes ago, InsanityKey said:

I know, and I'm not saying you're not allowed to use mods or whatever.  But you can't use them to say your frame is a tank, because then I can slap them on every other frame and they're all proportionally the same as they were without the mods.  The point of tanks is that they inherently have the ability to stay in the fight longer.

Your argument is, that you can't stay long in a fight with a frame, that can control crowds and heal himself and others?

[Zeclem]

4 minutes ago, InsanityKey said:

I know, and I'm not saying you're not allowed to use mods or whatever.  But you can't use them to say your frame is a tank, because then I can slap them on every other frame and they're all proportionally the same as they were without the mods.  The point of tanks is that they inherently have the ability to stay in the fight longer.

another proof that you have no idea what youre saying. you seriously think every mod has the same exact effect on every frame? ok go slap all the armor mods on banshee and be a tank. i really wanna see how it turns out.

[Ceadeus]

5 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

1-when youre under heavy fire not even trins heal can save you cus you will get oneshotted. at least oberon can actually give you res/bleedout time. let me know when trin is capable of doing that.

2-25 is short? i think you failed to read properly again. ITS A BASE RANGE FOR A LOT OF ABILITIES IN GAME IF NOT MOST. its not short youre just making S#&$ up to prove your point or just really dont know that you should stick with your squad which is a git gud problem, not oberon problem.

"And I never said he was on per-nerf Limbo level.  I'm simply saying he's not good enough to really merit taking." this is what you said. 

"sorry not every frame is on pre-nerf limbo level. " this is what i said. i said cus people keep S#&$ting on the rework for their lack of game sense and expecting every rework to produce an absolute op frame like limbos rework did before he got nerfed afterwards. and what i did was a typo. i didnt have proper sleep yet and dumb people like you on this forums get on my nerves with their idiotic commentary so excuse me.

 

1.  Well if we're assuming that it's at 1-shot levels then Oberon wouldn't be able to do much of anything to begin with.  I was talking about even mid level enemies do more DPS than you can heal out.  Though if I were determined to keep my team alive as a Trin, probably could do it even at that stage because you can spam-cast her heals at any range.

2.  No, it really is short for an ability like that.  The game is built around speed and mobility, so how is having a small bubble of heals going to be very useful in that scenario?  You'd have to follow your teammates like a lost puppy and hope to god none of them broke off on their own like literally everybody always does.

3.  No, because you assume us being dissatisfied with the rework means we want him to be OP.  But frankly I don't think requesting that he do more than a single shot of my primary (which can more reliably proc much more useful statuses than the radiation that Oberon's kit is built around) is too much to ask when his other abilities don't do enough to make up for it either.

[aligatorno]

Just now, InsanityKey said:

 Though if I were determined to keep my team alive as a Trin, probably could do it even at that stage because you can spam-cast her heals at any range.

 

Nope. 50m is the cap of Trinity's healing.

[Ceadeus]

9 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

Well, I never had any issues with Reckoning. Check your connection, maybe. It always stunlocked everything at its full range for me. Well, except Bubbled Nullis (of course) and Flying Nightmares that are immune to nearly everything, but hey, that's the problem of every frame.

Regarding his tanking, I tried it yesterday. Rage + Quick Thinking + Renewal and you're basically invincible...

 

He's had issues with Reckoning since he first came out, if you recast too quick enemies just won't be affected by any of the CC, they'll take the damage (not that it matters) but that's it, otherwise they'll still just come at you as normal.

[Ceadeus]

6 minutes ago, Hopakkiin said:

Your argument is, that you can't stay long in a fight with a frame, that can control crowds and heal himself and others?

No my argument is that he's being called a tank when he's not.  Someone who can recover quickly when left alone is not a tank.

[p3z1]

6 minutes ago, 45neo said:

Yes exactly the percentage damage trinity does is MORE than the percentage damage that of Oberon's smite. I meant what I said and have made no contradictions.

Fair enough. I was just pointing out as well that Smite scales in % (albeit not the main target).

6 minutes ago, 45neo said:

um..... I said that i agreed that Oberon has superior cc didn't I?

This was reserved for someone else, not yours.

6 minutes ago, 45neo said:

Actually in your post you did not mention who won that category saying 

My bad. But yes, generally flat heals are better anyways.

6 minutes ago, 45neo said:

this does not look like a decisive category.

Exactly. You can't compare trinity to oberon in the first place, because they have different  "specialties." Trinity, healer. Oberon, jack of all trades. You can compare 2 stealth frames (Ivara vs Loki) under the same category, but never in different categories.

And, yes, situational.

6 minutes ago, InsanityKey said:

That wasn't contradictory, that was just two different ways I was saying we could look at it...

And I'm not sure if you're aware but Trin's abilities also scale with enemy health.  Hence why I can do 5,000 damage per tick on the bigger enemies with Trin.  As far as energy costs go, waiting for an energy plate in a swarm of enemies like you're saying is not going to get you much and will likely get you killed, where Trinity can cover a massive portion of the map in hundreds of energy per second.  She doesn't need to lock them all down because she can easily survive them all and let her team survive them and give them the resources to kill them.

Then why construct statement like that in the first place?

I know EV scales. Sadly, enemy armor scales grossly as well. This is why CC becomes better later on.

Energy plates are cheap and spammable. Zenurik gives enough energy in between casts. Others may be running energy siphon (pubs). I could bring energy-replenishing syndicates (Entropy or Blight). Again, I get the energy argument, but there are band-aids/hole fillers for that.

9 minutes ago, InsanityKey said:

The build might have low duration, but that's not what matters, the important part is the animation length, which doesn't give a S#&$ about your build.  That's why it's spam-casted. 

I could just run behind a crate and cast reckoning. With enough range I can affect an entire room (just not open maps). Trinity requires you to aim, meaning showing a portion of yourself to die.

11 minutes ago, InsanityKey said:

And Oberon's abilities are prone to glitching out and not properly knocking down or even grabbing their targets in the first place, which gives them plenty of time to run up and smack you in the face for your long cast-times.

This is why you have a team to cover you, right? Same with trinity, but Oberon, again, affects more in a shorter amount of time (cast-wise, depends on enemy count really).

[Ceadeus]

5 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

another proof that you have no idea what youre saying. you seriously think every mod has the same exact effect on every frame? ok go slap all the armor mods on banshee and be a tank. i really wanna see how it turns out.

 

That's not at all what I was implying.  My point was that if you're using armor/health/shield mods to call a weaker frame a tank, you can do the same thing to any other frame and it gains just as much proportional tanking ability.  IE: if you raise the armor of every frame by 100%, no frame has now become a better tank than any it wasn't before the change.

[Zeclem]

9 minutes ago, InsanityKey said:

1.  Well if we're assuming that it's at 1-shot levels then Oberon wouldn't be able to do much of anything to begin with.  I was talking about even mid level enemies do more DPS than you can heal out.  Though if I were determined to keep my team alive as a Trin, probably could do it even at that stage because you can spam-cast her heals at any range.

2.  No, it really is short for an ability like that.  The game is built around speed and mobility, so how is having a small bubble of heals going to be very useful in that scenario?  You'd have to follow your teammates like a lost puppy and hope to god none of them broke off on their own like literally everybody always does.

3.  No, because you assume us being dissatisfied with the rework means we want him to be OP.  But frankly I don't think requesting that he do more than a single shot of my primary (which can more reliably proc much more useful statuses than the radiation that Oberon's kit is built around) is too much to ask when his other abilities don't do enough to make up for it either.

1-dude. IT GIVES YOU A GODDAMN RES AND/OR BLEEDOUT TIME. how are these "nothing"? are you really that stupid? and before those levels oberon can keep you alive just fine.

2-its. not. small. you are just @(*()$ horrible appearently. 25 meters is around  two rooms in this game, if not more. and its @(*()$ base range and range mods exist. 

3-the thing is your arguments of him being too weak is $&*&*#(%&. each and every single one of them. hes very much perfect where he is now. so when someone says theyre dissatisfied with this rework i'll say theyre either wanting a super broken op frame or has no idea about the game. which one of those are you? man why do i even ask its clear youre the latter. or both, since you cant play normal frames you need op stuff to get a kill or something.

4-you dont gain "just as much", as ive said before. not every frame gets the same value of a mod cus that %100 is as much as your frames base armor which is not the same for every frame, as ive said before. you have no idea how this game works, as ive said before. 

 

 

Edited May 9, 2017 by Zeclem