Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[Music4Therapy]

20 minutes ago, blacklusterseph said:

My point was exactly that engaging players in the thread is a waste of time based on the range of 'feedback' I've seen so far. 90% of it is contradicting, and engaging people directly is only an exercise in how well they can wield the English language to craft vitriol and hyperbole. If I was a programmer looking at this thread for some constructive sense of the player sentiment, the net result doesn't have any value to guide the design ideas.

Agreed.

I have mixed feelings. On one hand, I love the rework. Particularly the fact that his Renewal being a toggled effect makes Phoenix Renewal much more reliable. In turn, Phoenix Renewal in conjunction with Rage, Vitality, and (Primed) Flow allows him to come out the worst of situations ahead and refueled. It is through those synergies and 170% efficiency that I've been able to take him as far as 90 minutes solo in Mot (without the use of the cheese that is Naramon) and solo sorties with ease.

On the other, without Phoenix Renewal he is susceptible to burst damage and makes an energy hungry frame like him susceptible to burst damage and energy deprived.

I've been able to have great success with my build, but outside of that very tight build that I run he struggles without an energy gain mechanic. Something as simple as allowing Zenurik and/or Energy Siphon to function while Renewal is draining energy (Similar to Day/Night Equinox's 3 or Volt's Riot Shield) or giving him some sort of energy gaining mechanic (I proposed in the early stages that the projectiles created by Smite should grant Oberon energy upon hitting targets) would go a long ways in opening build paths for him.

Edited May 24, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[Raniu]

What you suggest, OP, is not a rework but a slight change. And it wouldn't change much.

The augment mod is not too creative. I'd rather it got an actual rework. Example: while under the effects of Renewal, damage you take is reduced based on your current hp (the less hp - the more damage reduction). Just an example though.

[KnightCole]

12 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

Agreed.

I have mixed feelings. On one hand, I love the rework. Particularly the fact that his Renewal being a toggled effect makes Phoenix Renewal much more reliable. In turn, Phoenix Renewal in conjunction with Rage, Vitality, and (Primed) Flow allows him to come out the worst of situations ahead and refueled. It is through those synergies and 170% efficiency that I've been able to take him as far as 90 minutes solo in Mot (without the use of the cheese that is Naramon) and solo sorties with ease.

On the other, without Phoenix Renewal he is susceptible to burst damage and makes an energy hungry frame like him susceptible to burst damage and energy deprived.

I've been able to have great success with my build, but outside of that very tight build that I run he struggles without an energy gain mechanic. Something as simple as allowing Zenurik and/or Energy Siphon to function while Renewal is draining energy (Similar to Day/Night Equinox's 3 or Volt's Riot Shield) or giving him some sort of energy gaining mechanic (I proposed in the early stages that the projectiles created by Smite should grant Oberon energy upon hitting targets) would go a long ways in opening build paths for him.

Yeah, allowing energy gaining mechanics to regen his energy while his abilities are active would be great.....would add some true use to Energy Pizza and Trinity's #2. 

[(PSN)lhbuch]

I agree that the mod could be reworked but with current life regen and armour that Oberon can have, if you have this mod on, and still dying more than once every 90s, it is time to leave the mission. 

This mod will actually become useless when you start getting one hit doesnt matter your armour, life regen etc... which starts happening at levels where 99% of the players dont even play.

Tried Oberon in a sortie 3 corpus survival which is low level but is where the game is balanced right now and didnt even need the mod. It acts like a safety net when you are caught off guard.

[Music4Therapy]

My comment was deleted by someone #offended so I will rephrase nicely.

 

You shouldn't be dying more than once every 90 seconds. As stated above, it's a great safety net for yourself and allies.

[Music4Therapy]

In the grand scheme of things, the flat armor buff isn't a huge deal. It's a bonus. A nice bonus that we didn't have before. Bottom line, the flat armor doesn't even matter after a certain point once the 1 shots start rolling in.

The common ground we have is the energy issue, and I provided solutions for that in the above comment of mine. I also agree that the energy drain should be capped in some way, that is obnoxious when used near a Nekros.

[SDGDen]

1 hour ago, Blood_Poppy said:

Oberon are support + mid healing frame, but you limit his Healing/Support capabilities with ridiculous requirement.

no.... oberon is a jack of all trades master of none. thats his entire role in the game.

[Music4Therapy]

Just now, SupremeDutchGamer said:

no.... oberon is a jack of all trades master of none. thats his entire role in the game.

This often repeated trope is going to give me cancer. Why do people repeat this phrase over and over as if it means anything? Octavia is a JOAT, Volt is a JOAT, Rhino is a JOAT, Nezha is a JOAT. Like, what's your point?

[(PSN)joshw1400]

1 minute ago, Music4Therapy said:

This often repeated trope is going to give me cancer. Why do people repeat this phrase over and over as if it means anything? Octavia is a JOAT, Volt is a JOAT, Rhino is a JOAT, Nezha is a JOAT. Like, what's your point?

Some of these aren't even JOATs. Octavia, and Volt and Rhino are very unique.

[SDGDen]

3 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

This often repeated trope is going to give me cancer. Why do people repeat this phrase over and over as if it means anything? Octavia is a JOAT, Volt is a JOAT, Rhino is a JOAT, Nezha is a JOAT. Like, what's your point?

no.... rhino is a tank. he specializes in taking S#&$loads of damage, octavia is DPS/buff, since she specializes in DPS and buffing the team, volt is CC, since he mainly has CC. nezha is tank/CC, since he specializes in taking damage and controlling the enemy with divine spears.

 

oberon is the only frame that can do DPS, area denial, CC, healing, tanking and buffing. but in exchange for being able to do all of that he is weaker at each individual thing compared to other frames.

if DE didnt do that we would have an oberon that could heal like trinity, CC like nova and excalibur, DPS like ember, tank like rhino, do area denial like vauban, buff like octavia etc.

[Music4Therapy]

Just now, (PS4)joshw1400 said:

Some of these aren't even JOATs. Octavia, and Volt and Rhino are very unique.

Wtf?

Octavia has CC, Damage, buffs, squad stealth, squad energy regen.

Volt has CC, Damage, Buffs, Squad protection via his shields, Squad Shield regen and Overshields via his Capacitance augment.

Rhino has CC, Damage, Buffs, High Durability

Nezha has CC, Damage, Squadwide status immunity/clears, Healing

Oberon? CC, Status Immunity, Healing, Buffing.

[Music4Therapy]

1 minute ago, SupremeDutchGamer said:

no.... rhino is a tank. he specializes in taking S#&$loads of damage, octavia is DPS/buff, since she specializes in DPS and buffing the team, volt is CC, since he mainly has CC. nezha is tank/CC, since he specializes in taking damage and controlling the enemy with divine spears.

 

oberon is the only frame that can do DPS, area denial, CC, healing, tanking and buffing. but in exchange for being able to do all of that he is weaker at each individual thing compared to other frames.

Read above.

[(PSN)joshw1400]

Just now, Music4Therapy said:

Wtf?

Octavia has CC, Damage, buffs, squad stealth, squad energy regen.

Volt has CC, Damage, Buffs, Squad protection via his shields, Squad Shield regen and Overshields via his Capacitance augment.

Rhino has CC, Damage, Buffs, High Durability

Nezha has CC, Damage, Squadwide status immunity/clears, Healing

Oberon? CC, Status Immunity, Healing, Buffing.

That's not what I meant. Warframes have their own unique way of CC or damage, but with Oberon, they tried to combine that. Say if you're in the void, and one person wants a random to bring Trinity for heals, but you know nobody likes to play her a lot. This person also wants to do damage. 

[SDGDen]

3 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

Wtf?

Octavia has CC, Damage, buffs, squad stealth, squad energy regen.

Volt has CC, Damage, Buffs, Squad protection via his shields, Squad Shield regen and Overshields via his Capacitance augment.

Rhino has CC, Damage, Buffs, High Durability

Nezha has CC, Damage, Squadwide status immunity/clears, Healing

Oberon? CC, Status Immunity, Healing, Buffing.

 

2 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

Read above.

first of all. you can multiquote.

 

second of all.

squad stealth is buffs, energy regen is also buffs. octavia still has no tanking, healing or area denial as far as im aware.

squad shield regen is buffs, overshield is buffs, squad protection via shields is just realy S#&$ty area denial since enemies can walk through the shields. still no healing, no tanking. so not a JOAT.

rhino also still has no area denial and no healing. so not a JOAT

nezha might come close, but still no area denial and only a realy minor buff to the point where its irrelevant.

oberon can do CC with his 1st and 3rd skill, and sort of with his 4th. he can buff using his 2nd and 3rd, he can tank with his 2nd and 3rd due to iron renewal buff, he can heal with his 3rd and to some extent his 4th due to health orb drop rates, he can do dps with his 4th and 1st and to some extent his 3rd, and area denial with his 2nd.

[KX297]

I think it could be changed too.

I dislike using it because of the timer on it, and think it would be cool to have it lowered. I don't want the entire team to have Wukong's Defy, because that would be dumb, but I do think the current cooldown is just too long.

I also wouldn't be opposed to changing it all together as others have mentioned, such as something like damage reduction based on health remaining. 

Either way, +1 for altering the modification.

[Music4Therapy]

 

8 minutes ago, KX297 said:

I think it could be changed too.

I dislike using it because of the timer on it, and think it would be cool to have it lowered. I don't want the entire team to have Wukong's Defy, because that would be dumb, but I do think the current cooldown is just too long.

I also wouldn't be opposed to changing it all together as others have mentioned, such as something like damage reduction based on health remaining. 

Either way, +1 for altering the modification.

Changing it to damage reduction would be a MASSIVE nerf of such epic proportions you may as well delete the frame. 

He already has enough tankiness to wreck the star chart. His invulnerability is what allows him to thrive and come out ahead in even the worst of situations. It is what allows his build to work in high level play. It's a VERY powerful ability as is. Changing it to damage reduction would just make him "win more" in star chart content while making him prone to burst damage. The safety net that Phoenix Renewal currently provides is *massive* and when used correctly turns him into a monster. Lowering the CD would make it OP and changing it to DR would be a nerf.

 

Edit: I still have no clue how people are dying more than once every 90 seconds, so much so in fact that it's a problem. 

Edited May 24, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[KnightCole]

1 hour ago, MarrikBroom said:

I just find it puzzling I'm being punished by a greater energy drain for being a team player.

LOL, I know right?  Teamplay OP, nerf teamwork!!!

Guess thats how you do it...

[(PSN)MrNishi]

1 hour ago, Raniu said:

What you suggest, OP, is not a rework but a slight change. And it wouldn't change much.

The augment mod is not too creative. I'd rather it got an actual rework. Example: while under the effects of Renewal, damage you take is reduced based on your current hp (the less hp - the more damage reduction). Just an example though.

That change he would make it function like a previous version of Blessing.

I think the Augment allowing instant revive makes it unique at the moment.

My suggestion is to allow Phoenix Renewal to build revival stacks like Vazarin New Moon.

•1 Revive per Rank 1/2/3/4 (Could have a cap of 20 revive stacks)* 

•Stacks can retain 90 sec cooldown, but that means every 90secs Oberon can add revives stacks to Phoenix Renewal 

-This has some trade offs as current Phoenix Renewal can revive entire Trial/Raid party at very start of mission. 

Proposed change would need at least 90 secs for two separate Phoenix Renewal Casts to have added up to 8secs.

However, any long endless mission would allow Oberon to continually build Phoenix Renewal stacks, with the caveat that he would need deactivate current Renewal to gain Phoenix Renewal stacks.

 

UI indicators:

Upper Buff indicator can be Phoenix Renewal icon with x1 (like New Moon revive stack)

Cooldown for Phoenix Renewal stacks can be Renewal ability icon on bottom-rift with a Focus like cooldown ring-meter-bar (Like how Focus has circular meter that fills. Renewal would gain a circular meter that fills every 90 secs)

 

*Not sure if 20 stack limit is sufficient if Phoenix Renewal is to be drained by summons such as Nekros SOTD (Infested Chargers suicide), Maggots (Nidus), Inaros Sand Minions, Atlas Rumblers, or if Phoenix Renewal would allow Sentinels to Heal let me Regen?

I think the Augment could allow Oberon a Niche support that would promote use over Trinity.

[Alusdrann]

Lol@DE safeguarding Oberon Prime Access by throwing in Sybaris Prime. It's like they already know Oberon alone won't sell the pack.

But yeah, it looks like DE is preparing to shut the lid on the Oberon rework, after asking for our feedback and then doing almost nothing with all of the ridiculous amounts of feedback they've gotten.

 

GG guys.

[KnightCole]

Lol, Oberon seems to be a pretty famous and popular frame. 

[Alusdrann]

3 minutes ago, KnightCole said:

Lol, Oberon seems to be a pretty famous and popular frame. 

People like his concept, and want to see the rework be done well. Unfortunately, so far DE seems perfectly content with leaving him overtly incompleted.

Edited May 24, 2017 by Alusdrann

[LODESAMONEY]

So what is the ideal build for Oberon these days? I have yet to buy any Primed mods until I know exactly how I want to build it. 

Right now this is how it looks: 

Corrosive Projection, Power Drift, Stretch, Continuity, Flow, Intensify, Streamline, Natural Talent, Vitality, Rage

 

I'm probably going to dump Natural Talent for Steel Fiber, now that Oberon can get more significant armor numbers (though I don't know how higher armor plays with Rage), but then again casting speed might be important so I don't know. I'm not a fan of "cursed" mods, so I'd like to avoid those if I can. I can also drop Continuity and take Quick Thinking or something else in that slot. Power, Range and Cost Efficiency are what I need, not Duration.

 

So what should I keep, what should I Prime, and what should I replace with something else?

Edited May 24, 2017 by LODESAMONEY

[Alusdrann]

1 hour ago, MarrikBroom said:

Even though I've been one of the louder voices calling for more work to be done he's not in a TERRIBLE place. He's Fine, but as I have said. All he is, is 'fine.' He gets the job done. I find him nicer to play than Chroma (who I feel Oberon's current 'meta' build of rage/QT/Prime Flow is most compared to,), because chroma is 'press 2 and 3, refresh as needed.' Trinity is in the same boat, except 'try not to actually die because you are super squish.'

Besides Oberon now has a function other frames do NOT have other than augment chroma, and even everlasting ward chroma needs to constantly refresh. He can provide team armor... provided you can herd everyone onto the carpet and pray to RNGesus none of them are nekros, nidus, atlas, nyx, or inaros and want to use their ability to generate extra allies. It isn't OP because at the levels where Oberon himself stops being effective, his armor buff starts to get made irrelevant due to one-shotting. So why further nerf it by gating iron renewal behind hallowed ground?

That's all I'm asking guys. DE. I might not like the reason you give, but giving a 'why' would be appreciated.

 

Unrelated: As bad as blocking mechanics are in game. I'm glad i picked up the silva & aegis mod from ambulus reborn so I can have syndicate procs. It'd be nice if silva prime had an autoblock mechanic. Granted it'd be even nicer if the silva mod looked at incoming damage before block damage reduction. It'd be even nicer if it wasn't so clunky to use charge attacks. Even nicer still if it was a suda or red veil augment instead because energy generation but more health + Rage is more energy, right?

Most people would generally expect a rework to make all of a Warframe's abilities at least somewhat decent, as opposed to only one skill being decent and only when force-paired with another terrible ability. But even if for some reason you don't share that viewpoint, I'm sure we can all agree that severe design oversights (such as Shadows of the Dead making Renewal unusable) are a clear indicator that there is still work to be done.

Though, in my professional opinion as someone who works in game development, the current design of his skills is severely unrefined and needs much more iteration to actually feel complete.

 

Edit: Since my main feedback was originally posted in an update thread (Hotfix 20.3.1), I'll link it into here for posterity.

Base changes to Oberon:

Changes to Oberon's augments:

 

Edited May 24, 2017 by Alusdrann

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

I have a low efficiency hollowed ground nuke build in which i heal wen i need it... And a phoenix renewal build. Neither i have at a high efficiency. Duration help with efficiency...

 

The only change i would like to see is not having to use energy drain for shadows, rumblers and such. Trinity doesnt have a higher blessing cost wen she heals... Neither should oberon, especially since hid heals are smaller.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

On 5/22/2017 at 11:05 PM, (Xbox One)Cash201293 said:

I found Oberon quite enjoyable after the changes. I always thought Oberon should've been great at spreading Radiation but his lacklusting skills say otherwise before. Especially Hallowed ground. It was such an awful skill to me. Now it's way better than before if you ask me. Oberon now is a pretty decent frame. 

Agreed. Use his hollowed ground augment snd a high duration/power strength.... Everything dies

Edited May 24, 2017 by (PS4)big_eviljak