Can we talk about Ivara's Navigator?

[yles9056]

So I just got Ivara recently. As a bow lover, I really like Artemis Bow. It's satisfying to use. But it didn't take before I realized that Navigator has a lot of problems.

Using Navigator often cost a lot of energy. The energy cost per second is pretty high even with high efficiency and duration. What's worse, a lot of energy used are actually wasted.

 

There are several major issues with Navigator:

1. Mini map does not follow the projectile. I spend more time on searching enemies than actually hitting them.

2. Motion blur makes it hard to aim or spot enemies. Also results in wasting time and energy.

3. Player has very little control over projectile speed. When I  was using Navigator with Dread, there are only two speed options: fast and super fast. Player cannot slow down the projectile and there is no transition between fast and super fast. It's usable in open maps, but a lot of tile sets have small room and narrow hallways. It's difficult to navigate with such speed. If player misses a target, he will end up spending a lot of time adjusting direction and thus wasting a lot of energy.

 

I hope these issues can be addressed. Navigator should be more viable, not just an ability to make Zenistar stronger.

[SDGDen]

1: this is an actual thing that would be neat. having the arrow inherit radars

2: simple. turn off motion blur.

3: you can slow it down with right click and speed it up with left click if im correct.

[yles9056]

10 minutes ago, SupremeDutchGamer said:

1: this is an actual thing that would be neat. having the arrow inherit radars

2: simple. turn off motion blur.

3: you can slow it down with right click and speed it up with left click if im correct.

 

2. I almost forgot there is a motion blur toggle.

3. I tried, but nothing happens. I can only slow down the arrow if I speed it up first. It only returns to normal speed and cannot be slowed down further. Could this be a bug?

Edited June 17, 2017 by yles9056

[SDGDen]

3 minutes ago, yles9056 said:

 

2. I almost forgot there is a motion blur toggle.

3. I tried, but I cannot slow down the arrow. I can only slow down the arrow if I speed it up first. It only returns to normal speed and cannot be slowed down further.

weird... the not being able to slow down thing is on your end though... i can do it just fine.

[LSG501]

Yeah navigator could really do with being looked at, it's pretty hard to use in any meaningful way due to some of it's mechanics and as such I just can't say I use it even though I have a build for it.

1 minute ago, SupremeDutchGamer said:

weird... the not being able to slow down thing is on your end though... i can do it just fine.

It does 'slow down' but it doesn't go any slower than the launch speed which for some is too fast.

Edited June 17, 2017 by LSG501

[yles9056]

58 minutes ago, SupremeDutchGamer said:

weird... the not being able to slow down thing is on your end though... i can do it just fine.

I just tested in Simulacrum with every projectile weapon I have. It's still the same, the projectile speed cannot be slower than initial speed.

Edited June 17, 2017 by yles9056

[AlphaPHENIX]

3. You think that's bad? Try a Daikyu with Terminal Velocity...yes I have Terminal Velocity on my Daikyu, don't ask why.

Fun Fact: A Daikyu with Terminal Velocity and Jetstream from Zephyr makes the arrow almost fast enough to be considered hit-scan at medium range.

[Diamondmatter]

I agree completely. It's just not worth using at all with how hard it is to spot enemies while putting all your focus on not hitting an obstacle with how fast you're going, let alone hitting enemies. Most of the time (that time being pretty much entirely in the simulacrum because I just can't find a use for Navigator in the field) it feels like it doesn't actually hit them but I can't be sure.

Edited June 17, 2017 by Diamondmatter

[(XBOX)Onyx Schnee]

After ages of using her, i can say with absolute confidence that navi is only useful with glaives.

pump dmg into it, punch through and the +4 bounces mod(rebound right?)

and you're good. The dmg multiplier of navi will be decent.

 

^and all that, unfortunately, is the problem. Thrown melee and a select few secondaries(castanas....and despair.....yeah, so one quality secondary....) and launchers are the only weapons navi is good with.(not saying hitscans should be used....) navi is pretty much pointless because there's no way im giving Ivara explosives.

she has some of the lowest stats when it comes to survival.

[Kezriak]

Idk, i'd like to see it reworked to something with a little more offensive utility like the buzzloks alterate fire or something silly like that but eh, stealth frames aren't my thing.

[DatDarkOne]

On ‎6‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 7:42 AM, Kezriak said:

Idk, i'd like to see it reworked to something with a little more offensive utility like the buzzloks alterate fire or something silly like that but eh, stealth frames aren't my thing.

No!!  It works just fine with all my thrown melee weapons and guns with slower projectiles.  I control it just fine and I use a controller on PC.  

[Kezriak]

10 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

No!!  It works just fine with all my thrown melee weapons and guns with slower projectiles.  I control it just fine and I use a controller on PC.  

Okay? That's your opinion though, at the end of the day the ability is more for show than any practical application that I've seen. 

[Ev1dentFir31]

On 6/17/2017 at 7:04 AM, yles9056 said:

So I just got Ivara recently. As a bow lover, I really like Artemis Bow. It's satisfying to use. But it didn't take before I realized that Navigator has a lot of problems.

Using Navigator often cost a lot of energy. The energy cost per second is pretty high even with high efficiency and duration. What's worse, a lot of energy used are actually wasted.

 

There are several major issues with Navigator:

1. Mini map does not follow the projectile. I spend more time on searching enemies than actually hitting them.

2. Motion blur makes it hard to aim or spot enemies. Also results in wasting time and energy.

3. Player has very little control over projectile speed. When I  was using Navigator with Dread, there are only two speed options: fast and super fast. Player cannot slow down the projectile and there is no transition between fast and super fast. It's usable in open maps, but a lot of tile sets have small room and narrow hallways. It's difficult to navigate with such speed. If player misses a target, he will end up spending a lot of time adjusting direction and thus wasting a lot of energy.

 

I hope these issues can be addressed. Navigator should be more viable, not just an ability to make Zenistar stronger.

Wanna have more fun with Navigator? Get a Staticor. Fully charged Staticor shots travel nice and slow, and do tons of AOE damage on top of the initial hit box damage, and best of all CAN be controlled by Navigator. Build the Staticor for Radiation and Corrosive and about 4 formas later you will be 1 hitting groups of 50+ enemy's and anyone left standing will fight amongst themselves cause of radiation. ;)

[TaylorsContraction]

I've only tried using navigator once with my detron. It has a lot of punch through and every time I tried using it I had no idea what was going on.  Right clicking to slow projectiles wasn't helping any,  I think the bullets constantly flew through a wall or something.  It was confusing and impossible to control,  while I still use ivarA I haven't used navigator since those futile attempts at understanding what the ability is supposed to do.

[Paradoxbomb]

Honestly I think this skill would be better off if it just had a flat energy cost rather than draining energy per second. It's more of a fun and niche ability rather than something that sees a lot of serious applications, but losing half my energy pool after bouncing my projectile off the walls and/or missing my intended target entirely kinda saps some of the joy out of using it.

Better acceleration/deceleration would be a welcome addition as well.

[Ashkeuron]

As a avid Ivara user I do agree Navigator could use some polish.

1) This is also a problem when enemies only spawn in adjacent tiles to your warframe. I've had high puncture shots and flown entire maps with nothing to hit because their all back wandering around an invisible Ivara. So for short, around the corner shots, this skill works, but for us long range hunters... kind of a miss.  Side note: Buzlok's homing round with navigator then burst firing high puncture normal rounds 

2) I Never use Motion blurr. It makes the game hard to focus on when your moving at high speeds (Volt?)

3) I agree; a good fix would be hold aim to slow down more for control, and fire to speed up shots, maybe to a percentage?

 

We definitly need a Augment... maybe [Yondu's Song] ?

[DatDarkOne]

2 hours ago, Ashkeuron said:

 

We definitly need a Augment... maybe [Yondu's Song] ?

I'm Mary Poppins, Y'all!!  

I couldn't resist.  :D

[Nezha_Rose]

On 6/24/2017 at 8:04 PM, Ashkeuron said:

 

We definitly need a Augment... maybe [Yondu's Song] ?

You know what, something like that could benefit Ivara tbh.

 

For real tho, I wonder if energy gain per kill could benefit Ivara to keep the chain going, the the energy gained isnt as big as the energy being drained in a given time. Meaning you can keep the combo for longer without getting too much energy and loosing too much of it. Think of it a rapidly draining life support bar and youre trying to refill it with life support again but at a slow pace that keeps you on edge to keep the combo going.

Alternate example of this energy gain and lost would be like timed mode in a puzzle game that give you extra time the bigger and faster combos you pull off. (Idk if I explained this well enough)

[DatDarkOne]

32 minutes ago, Nezha_Rose said:

You know what, something like that could benefit Ivara tbh.

 

For real tho, I wonder if energy gain per kill could benefit Ivara to keep the chain going, the the energy gained isnt as big as the energy being drained in a given time. Meaning you can keep the combo for longer without getting too much energy and loosing too much of it. Think of it a rapidly draining life support bar and youre trying to refill it with life support again but at a slow pace that keeps you on edge to keep the combo going.

Alternate example of this energy gain and lost would be like timed mode in a puzzle game that give you extra time the bigger and faster combos you pull off. (Idk if I explained this well enough)

As much as that would be cool, I can already hear the "that's OP please nerf it now" crowd.  Even without having ever used Ivara or navigator they would scream like somebody shot their Momma.  Sad really.  

[Desperado14]

I think maybe if it cost energy per enemy hit rather, and a slower energy drain between enemies, but honestly, it would be seriously op if it just had slower energy drain... everyone would be pissed if Yondu kill-stole the whole game.