Ember's Deluxe Skin Feedback

[Grimm]

13 hours ago, Orabell said:

Understandable. I know I must sound fangirly right now but I got mad respects for what you've done!

most of us do, ignusdei's designs are what made some of the better body designs for warframes. if de would let tennogen modify the warframe body model within limitations of mass increase to mass decrease (i mean like size of the body) and poly limits, i think those who want ignus DEIsigns and have modeling skills would work with him to design them for tennogen entries 

[UrielColtan]

On 10/18/2017 at 6:08 AM, Grimm said:

she has candle flames on her if you look closely. but i think she just looks like a rehash of banshee prime which is similar to zephyr in the whole bird design 
candles on the hips and on her helmet 

No, Banshee Prime actually looks decent, unlike this Ember deluxe or  Zephyr. I actually like that one, and it doesn't even look like a bird, it has a wispy ghost look(and some subtle features of a bat.), more like, as a banshee should.

Edited October 19, 2017 by UrielColtan

[UrielColtan]

On 10/18/2017 at 1:34 PM, Hypernaut1 said:

 

It's true though. WF uses unconventional design aesthetics. it's not the kind of thing that reads well when first looking at it. 

People tend to gravitate towards easily recognizable design tropes. Korean MMOs have this in spades. The artwork is absolutely gorgeous, but very familiar... It's an easy draw. I don't think WF strives to be all sleek and edgy. It's the easy way out. 

 

In shill land it may seem like that but in reality not so much. "Edgy" and "easily recognizable", really, these are the two descriptions you want to try and convince us with in regards to Feyarch or Strega? People gravitate toward what looks at best symmetrically, spectrally, texturally and chromatically alluring, be it familiar or not. There is little thinking outside of the box with this new Ember Deluxe Skin, she is just a Rooster, which, disregarding the fact that its not a fetching concept to go with for a female frame, its unatttactive to boot. This mohawk obsession is also edge personified, to the point of hindering art decisions.

Edited October 20, 2017 by UrielColtan

[(PSN)PillarOfWar]

It's the first time I looked at DE's try at the ember deluxe skin. Yuck! Like puke yuck!

[UrielColtan]

15 hours ago, IgnusDei said:

I am more than willing to start mending that bridge, but DE has got to meet me half-way.

 

I would really hope the hatchet could be buried on this and you two could have a nice collaboration again. Also, a question, did the suggestion of an optional auxillary toggle for DE's additions to your Ember deluxe design ever come up in discussion? Because I think that would have been a good compromise if DE really wanted those additions. 

Edited October 20, 2017 by UrielColtan

[UrielColtan]

On 10/18/2017 at 5:49 PM, Rhekemi said:

Indeed.

I won't sign the petition, but I understand it as a symbolic gesture.

I don't understand it as a serious measure to force a company to re-hire an employee they've parted ways with. I say re-hire because I don't think DE can just slap the skin into the game without paying IngusDei, the artist, or working with him to bring it to completion. I admit that I'm somewhat confused as to why the skin is so different from the original design, while IngusDei's Mag deluxe is still quite faithful to his original design.

Either way, the petition disregards the employee's wishes or the company's wishes just so we can have a beautifully designed deluxe skin for Ember.

I'd ask the petitioners to realize that the petition is inherently selfish. I do not say that lightly or to offend.

I truly wish we had IngusDei's deluxe Ember skin. We don't. We'll live.

Ignusdei was never officially employed at DE, they wouldn't exactly be hiring him back to their office, just using his work, which we want to pay both for.

Inherently selfish....they are trying to sell us a product, not give us a skin as a gift, what we want should matter.  They also really should not expect us to respect their "artistic vision" if they clearly can't for another artist, probably because he was not officially on the art team, since they let a guy designing Zephyr deluxe, develop her to their whims, and take their sweet time making her(I believe even referring to it as a "passion project" in one devstream.). Its one thing if the old Ember deluxe skin was something completely unfitting and was just a girl in white overalls and red shirt like the Fire Flower power up in Mario or something, but no, it wasn't anything unfitting like that. The Ignusdei skin was actually a fitting skin that looked nice, and those paltry additions DE wanted could have easily just been toggles.

 

 

Edited October 20, 2017 by UrielColtan

[Grimm]

8 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

Ignusdei was never officially employed at DE, they wouldn't exactly be hiring him back to their office, just using his work, which we want to pay both for.

Inherently selfish....they are trying to sell us a product, not give us a skin as a gift, what we want should matter.  They also really should not expect us to respect their "artistic vision" if they clearly can't for another artist, probably because he was not officially on the art team, since they let a guy designing Zephyr deluxe, develop her to their whims, and take their sweet time making her(I believe even referring to it as a "passion project" in one devstream.). Its one thing if the old Ember deluxe skin was something completely unfitting and was just a girl in white overalls and red shirt like the Fire Flower power up in Mario or something, but no, it wasn't anything unfitting like that. The Ignusdei skin was actually a fitting skin that looked nice, and those paltry additions DE wanted could have easily just been toggles.

 

 

amazing. couldn't have said it better 

[Grimm]

33 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

 

I would really hope the hatchet could be buried on this and you two could have a nice collaboration again. Also, a question, did the suggestion of an optional auxillary toggle for DE's additions to your Ember deluxe design ever come up in discussion? Because I think that would have been a good compromise if DE really wanted those additions. 

ikr, de shouldn't have pushed of ingusdei's idea for compromise 

Edited October 20, 2017 by Grimm

[CY13ERPUNK]

22 hours ago, IgnusDei said:

I doubt that's the reason: they had no problem using the Mag Deluxe, after all.

THIS RIGHT HERE... says SOOOO much 

all this 'beef' over the 'bladehawk' ... so much emo-rage that they {DE} completely scrapped the original deluxe design ... 

this kind of artist vs artist drama is toxic imho and not a good sign of things to come =/ 

clearly there was no drama over the mag design so DE went ahead with the original design, but becuz someone got their feelings hurt, they scrapped the Ember design and now the whole community loses a great skin... =/ SMDH =[ 

[-ToH-Eternity]

Signed.  Deluxe to both nova & Ember will be the only one that I won't  buy. Ignus made perfect skins :(

[UrielColtan]

On 10/18/2017 at 7:22 AM, Grimm said:

loki, mag, ash, rhino, trinity, frost, banshee, oberon. those are the ones i'm sure he did. i know he didn't do nova, excal xD, nyx xD. i'm not sure about saryn, chroma. chroma feels like ignus design style but im not sure if its his 

The Excal and Nemesis skins barely count as new skins since they were carry over from Dark Sector design, and just now got PBRed after years of it being asked for, so substantially better. 

Chroma Dynasty skin is DE and does not look enough like an Ignusdei skin, with that very basic design, and its something that looks more like it belongs in Monster Hunter. Its serviceable in that it isn't as bad as Nova's Asuri skin, and not much else.

Saryn is DE and was the only new skin from them I moderately liked, though they went a bit overboard with how large the petals were, and added questionable features like the giant wart on the side of her leg.

The Octavia deluxe concept, from what I could make out, looks like it may be good, but then we got stinkers like the Volt Deluxe. It seems that they can't get a momentum going with decent looking deluxe skins, and need help.

Edited October 20, 2017 by UrielColtan

[(PSN)i7081277]

Just give us Octavia deluxe while the rest of de gets their S#&$ together with this skin

[IX-44]

No support, I like the new one.

[UrielColtan]

On 10/18/2017 at 6:35 AM, Datam4ss said:

Well, yeah, some people would like Ignus Dei's skin for Ember. My opinion is well, just an opinion. I pretty much only like the helmet he/she designed. DE's chicken helmet is a massive no no. duh.

TBH I was hoping for something demonic, and neither does the DE Deluxe nor Ignus Dei skin fulfill that criteria, but as mentioned, it all boils down to taste. I'd say, DE should scrap everything and start from scratch again. It seems like a Faux Pas this time that almost no one likes. Frost Harka was good. Mag Pneuma was good. Banshee Soprana was ... ok. Loki Knave is a pain to color, but ok. Saryn was meh. Nova was ... eh, polarizing. Nyx Nemesis and Proto Excalibur are just Darksector so no comment. 

 

What does "demonic" mean?

As for the others, Loki suffered from bad proportions in transference to model initially, though looks like it was revisted as it looks much better to me than on original release, Frost seems to suffer from a bit of rigging issues in regard to his waste garment, height portions and alternate helmet proportions not scaling with the model(Despite doing this more with Saryn's deluxe, the one they designed, who also had different proportions from vanilla.), but still generally good in spite of this because Ignusdei's design is that good. Banshee was altered a bit from the initial concept designs, though still good, especially with the prime helmet.

Edited October 20, 2017 by UrielColtan

[JefPlays]

Spell checker, do you use it?

[Rhekemi]

9 hours ago, UrielColtan said:

Ignusdei was never officially employed at DE, they wouldn't exactly be hiring him back to their office, just using his work, which we want to pay both for.

1

In the same post, you'll note that I mentioned the contradiction: DE did use IngusDei's Mag deluxe skin without any qualms, meaning they probably could have for Ember, too. The reasons they didn't only DE knows.

 

Quote

Inherently selfish....they are trying to sell us a product, not give us a skin as a gift, what we want should matter.

 

We might want our wishes to matter, but I don't think they matter much regarding design choices. Mechanics? Gameplay? Rewards? More likely. Design? Not so much, and DE isn't alone in making design and aesthetic choices according to their own compass. I'm sure most developers are the same.

So, yes, it is inherently selfish. It's all about what we want, and I freely admit I want the IngusDei Ember skin, or the most faithful representation of it DE can manage.

But I won't sign a petition in any form.

I'd like to see DE and IngusDei, one day, mend their relationship (as alluded to by Ingus himself a few posts back), so they can work together again. 

The petition, though, is all about us and getting the skin, period. It's not about respecting IngusDei's vision, or DE's choices, or even trying to understand them.

It's about hating the new skin being designed and wanting the gorgeous one.

I'm not angry, I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm just being blunt and calling it as I see it.

I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

Quote

They also really should not expect us to respect their "artistic vision" if they clearly can't for another artist

 

I'll snip your post here. The rest of it is about why DE and IngusDei parted ways and how easy his skin was to implement, all of which amounts to conjecture.

Who believed DE expected us to respect their artistic vision? I didn't see DE asking us to, so I'm not sure I follow. DE designed a new Ember skin. We're venting about how much we dislike it (I dislike it, too). It won't change a thing and DE will finish and sell the skin (just as they have with other poorly received skins in the past).

Our opinions, suggestions, and feedback are taken into consideration in many aspects of the game, but on aesthetics, I don't think DE finds our opinions very relevant.

Incidentally, the vast majority of the playerbase does actually respect DE's artistic vision (myself included). That vision is as much a part of what makes Warframe the game we love as anything else. We just have a burning hatred for a handful of skins.

Edited October 20, 2017 by Rhekemi

[Deshiel]

I agree. It's time for the chicken to go back to the barn.

[UrielColtan]

2 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

In the same post, you'll note that I mentioned the contradiction: DE did use IngusDei's Mag deluxe skin without any qualms, meaning they probably could have for Ember, too. The reasons they didn't only DE knows.

We know the reason, there was a big topic and follow up revelations, its petty reasoning, getting in the way of what the audience wants. They also still used the frost design, which came after Ignusdei was fired.

2 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

We might want our wishes to matter, but I don't think they matter much regarding design choices. Mechanics? Gameplay? Rewards? More likely. Design? Not so much, and DE isn't alone in making design and aesthetic choices according to their own compass. I'm sure most developers are the same.

So, yes, it is inherently selfish. It's all about what we want, and I freely admit I want the IngusDei Ember skin, or the most faithful representation of it DE can manage.

But I won't sign a petition in any form.

I'd like to see DE and IngusDei, one day, mend their relationship (as alluded to by Ingus himself a few posts back), so they can work together again. 

The petition, though, is all about us and getting the skin, period. It's not about respecting IngusDei's vision, or DE's choices, or even trying to understand them.

It's about hating the new skin being designed and wanting the gorgeous one.

I'm not angry, I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm just being blunt and calling it as I see it.

I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

Nope , this particularly silly and rather submissive kind of response is not very filling to my palette I am afraid. Not one bit of a collective petition for this, is selfish. If anything, something we are directly being asked to cough up dosh for, should also require our input, and we have an item on hand to reference in this particular situation.

What other devs do is a non-argument, I don't want DE to be like "most developers" anyway, many of which are just soul-less vampires, trying to suck out what ever profits they can from IP's and studios, EA style, and then casting them aside like lifeless husks on a whim when they become even mildly pertubed. I don't want DE's relationship with the likes of Ignusdei or similar artists to be like EA with the likes of Visceral.

 

2 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

I'll snip your post here. The rest of it is about why DE and IngusDei parted ways and how easy his skin was to implement, all of which amounts to conjecture.

Who believed DE expected us to respect their artistic vision? I didn't see DE asking us to, so I'm not sure I follow. DE designed a new Ember skin. We're venting about how much we dislike it (I dislike it, too). It won't change a thing and DE will finish and sell the skin (just as they have with other poorly received skins in the past).

Our opinions, suggestions, and feedback are taken into consideration in many aspects of the game, but on aesthetics, I don't think DE finds our opinions very relevant.

Incidentally, the vast majority of the playerbase does actually respect DE's artistic vision. That vision is as much a part of what makes Warframe the game we love as anything else. We just have a burning hatred for a handful of skins.

Edited just now by Rhekemi

Dude.

"Either way, the petition disregards the employee's wishes or the company's wishes just so we can have a beautifully designed deluxe skin for Ember.

I'd ask the petitioners to realize that the petition is inherently selfish. I do not say that lightly or to offend."

No conjecture at all, auxillary toggles exist in the game, Ignusdei has shed some light on the situation regarding his skins and what he would be open to, Zephyr Skin was teased nearly 2 years ago now back at devstream 67 and when brought up again in devstream 86, I recall DE saying they let the person working on it (Kary) have some time to work on it when they felt like it because its a passion project of sorts for them, and that they usually work on weapons.

 

Your reasons given for why people should not be demanding a better skin or Ignusdei's work despite them still going through with Pnuema (and technically Harka, since that was released shortly after they let Ignusdei go.), betrays your claimed disapproval of DE's decision, and you are blatantly reinforcing the bad decision in your attempts to trivialize those that want the better skin, or a better one in general, since you are saying they shouldn't care what we like when it comes to aesthetics, despite them trying to sell us a cosmetic. If that were true, they might as well not do things like lighting upgrades, PBR and other graphical features either, because clearly it does not matter if we like the visuals. 

The appeal of DE's aesthetics was initially the concept of space ninja's(which they have woefully gotten away from.), and how DE have been open to or inspired by many audience artistic concepts, actually. 

DE's designs are inspirations from other creator's visions too, no doubt including Marc Silvestri, who they even collaborated with for a videogame tie-in of one of his comic book works. Guyver is also an obvious artistic inspiration. Then we got the likes of the Lotus, who is an evolotution of an Alyx Vance concept they had for the early version of Dark Sector, the Glaive is inspired from the movie "Krull", Operators are Shinji clones, and Stalker is actually derived from concept fanart, as have been many things in the game. DE's "artistic vision" does not exist in a bubble, and can't stay in a bubble if they wish to continue the crowd sourcing nature of the game's foundation, and the potential evolution. Ignusdei's design is actually good and does not harm the aesthetics of the product one bit, only improves them.

 

Edited October 20, 2017 by UrielColtan

[phoenix1992]

1 minute ago, UrielColtan said:

Your reasons given for why people should not be demanding a better skin or Ignusdei's work despite them still going through with Pnuema (and technically Harka, since that was released shortly after they let Ignusdei go.), betrays your claimed disapproval of DE's decision, and you are blatantly reinforcing the bad decision in your attempts to trivialize those that want the better skin, or a better one in general, since you are saying they shouldn't care what we like when it comes to aesthetics, despite them trying to sell us a cosmetic. If that were true, they might as well not do things like lighting upgrades, PBR and other graphical features either, because clearly it does not matter if we like the visuals. 

 

I am sorry but I did not see that.
I saw rather... er bleak and dark pessimism. on how DE takes decisions based on the past. Please do not imply thing like  "betrayal"  and accusations of "reinforcing " with ease.

[UrielColtan]

12 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

I am sorry but I did not see that.
I saw rather... er bleak and dark pessimism. on how DE takes decisions based on the past. Please do not imply thing like  "betrayal"  and accusations of "reinforcing " with ease.

Yeah, thats exactly what telling people they are "selfish", to be quiet, and believing that that DE should not care about what we think of the visuals, actually is. Their actions are counter to their claim of being against the decision in particular.

"Either way, the petition disregards the employee's wishes or the company's wishes just so we can have a beautifully designed deluxe skin for Ember.

I'd ask the petitioners to realize that the petition is inherently selfish. I do not say that lightly or to offend."

So don't try to sell me porkie-pies and call it icecream.

"Dark pessimism" heh, no doubt thats what he and you feels, but submissiveness is not a particularly persuasive or good argument with me, and little more than softshoe caping for bad decisions by a company.

Edited October 20, 2017 by UrielColtan

[phoenix1992]

Just now, UrielColtan said:

Yeah, thats exactly what telling people they are "selfish", to be quiet, and believing that that DE should not care about what we think of the visuals, actually is. Their actions are counter to their claim of being against the decision in particular.

"Either way, the petition disregards the employee's wishes or the company's wishes just so we can have a beautifully designed deluxe skin for Ember.

I'd ask the petitioners to realize that the petition is inherently selfish. I do not say that lightly or to offend."

So don't try to sell me porkie-pies and call it icecream.

"Dark pessimism" heh, no doubt thats what he and you feels, but submissiveness is not a particularly persuasive or good argument with me, and little more than softshoe caping for bad decisions by a company.

And you do it again ^^

"I don't like the skin, but I don't think that DE will change it" is a statement does not mean that anyone is submissive. 
"The petition is selfish " - if anyone can say with poker face that they don't want the change due to personal reasons, well that person should visit a doctor. 
 

[UrielColtan]

23 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

And you do it again ^^

"I don't like the skin, but I don't think that DE will change it" is a statement does not mean that anyone is submissive. 
"The petition is selfish " - if anyone can say with poker face that they don't want the change due to personal reasons, well that person should visit a doctor. 
 

That's the very definition of a submissive position, actually. Wading in the pool of marketed fatalism, has made some poor souls unaware of this and and blind to their true potential, tsk tsk.   A petition is collective, hardly selfish, it takes into account the positions of people who outnumber the staff of DE by droves.  And I love how we like to play fast and loose with what we label "selfish'. Us paying DE is so selfish. "Personal reasons"  counter is a non argument, looking at DE's decisions in regard to the Ember deluxe skin.

Edited October 20, 2017 by UrielColtan

[Rhekemi]

On 10/18/2017 at 11:42 PM, Grimm said:

i agree i am selfish wanting this skin. but its so beautiful of a design, i have been hyped for it since they showed us the design ignus made. his warframe design style is amazing and i myself wish de would carry on using him just to finish more designs with ingus beautiful touch to them. they either need to make there own design for ember better than ignus or give us both. il update the petition. 

The petition creator has already acknowledged that they are being selfish. 

I'm not sure why you, @UrielColtan, are taking the word as an insult or an offense when I clearly stated it wasn't one. It's a statement of fact. The petition is about what you want--the IngusDei deluxe skin. The petition doesn't exist to benefit Ember, the game, or take into consideration anyone's wishes but the players who want the skin. That is selfish. It's okay to admit it. You're also welcome to continue saying it isn't selfish, but it's certainly not altruism driving the petition.

On 10/20/2017 at 6:36 AM, UrielColtan said:

Nope , this particularly silly and rather submissive kind of response is not very filling to my palette I am afraid.

 

You're welcome to your opinions, but my post was never made to satisfy you. I'm completely indifferent as to whether or not you find it filling. Your satisfaction (or dissatisfaction) with my post is irrelevant. I wanted to post my thoughts and I have. 

If you want to drag this out into an argument about the nature of the petition (and whether it's selfish or not), then this will likely be my last post. 

Quote

Not one bit of a collective petition for this, is selfish.

1

I invite you to read the petition creator's post I quoted above.

Quote

If anything, something we are directly being asked to cough up dosh for, should also require our input, and we have an item on hand to reference in this particular situation.

1

Skins aren't mandatory purchases. If we don't like them, we don't purchase them. But, as I said in my other post, DE is big on community input on various areas, but not aesthetics or design.

By community input, I don't mean highly-trained or highly-skilled artists (like IngusDei, or others who've created Warframe concepts that have gone on to influence DE greatly). I'm talking about the input of us, the masses, telling them what we want in an aesthetic design as players.

DE has never, to my knowledge, listened to us in that way. Why should they? 

I pointed out mechanics and gameplay because those are things we happen to understand on fundamental and intricate levels after years of gameplay. 

Even if we're right on IngusDei's skin being better than the current design (and trust me, we are), that doesn't set a precedent for DE to accept our input on aesthetics and design. Most of us aren't graphic or traditional artists. DE is under no obligation to accept our input, nor should they liberally seek it.

If we like a skin, we can buy it. If we hate it, we won't buy it.

But petitioning DE into using our favored skin won't work.

Quote

What other devs do is a non-argument, I don't want DE to be like "most developers" anyway, many of which are just soul-less vampires, trying to suck out what ever profits they can from IP's and studios, EA style, and then casting them aside like lifeless husks on a whim when they become even mildly pertubed. I don't want DE's relationship with the likes of Ignusdei or similar artists to be like EA with the likes of Visceral.

2

I specifically said what developers do on design, aesthetics, and artistic vision. I'm well aware of DE's penchant for listening to us on other matters. But with regard to design, DE is much like other devs and rightly so.

Quote

No conjecture at all, auxillary toggles exist in the game, Ignusdei has shed some light on the situation regarding his skins and what he would be open to, Zephyr Skin was teased nearly 2 years ago now back at devstream 67 and when brought up again in devstream 86, I recall DE saying they let the person working on it (Kary) have some time to work on it when they felt like it because its a passion project of sorts for them, and that they usually work on weapons.

3

Okay. I'm not going to contest this point any further. You're convinced that the skin could have been implemented with relative ease.

Quote

Your reasons given for why people should not be demanding a better skin or Ignusdei's work despite them still going through with Pnuema (and technically Harka, since that was released shortly after they let Ignusdei go.), betrays your claimed disapproval of DE's decision, and you are blatantly reinforcing the bad decision in your attempts to trivialize those that want the better skin, or a better one in general, since you are saying they shouldn't care what we like when it comes to aesthetics, despite them trying to sell us a cosmetic. If that were true, they might as well not do things like lighting upgrades, PBR and other graphical features either, because clearly it does not matter if we like the visuals. 

4

Oh, you're free to demand whatever you want. My point is it's pointless and selfish and will not work, in my humble opinion.

Whether you believe what I posted earlier (that I dislike the new skin and would've loved IngusDei's skin) is also, quite frankly, irrelevant. I have no reason to lie.

As for aesthetics, I've addressed it in my previous post and above, but I'll address it again.

DE is under no obligation to seek our input, opinions, crowd-sourced ideas, or suggestions on artwork, design, aesthetics, and artistic vision.

Another area that matches that is lore and story. We may make up our own lore all the time, but DE is under no obligation to accept our lore and story submissions when we disagree or dislike their storytelling choices. Many hated the Operators and supplied alternate theories or ignored them all together. DE didn't, however, backtrack and say, "Okay, guys. We make the game for you, you don't like Operators, so we'll remove those and put in something that explains what the Tenno are in a way you prefer."

On the flipside, DE has chosen to seek our input, opinions, crowd-sourced ideas and suggestions on gaming mechanics, gameplay, ability tweaks and other things of that nature because we are gamers first, all of us. It's our expertise (regardless of the fact that many of us are highly skilled artists or authors), and that is the area DE trusts us to give them our input on the most. 

That was my point and the distinction I was making.

PBR, lighting, and the other things you mentioned are improvements to the game, yes, and DE routinely shows us the progression of these improvements.

Of course, we should care about aesthetics, but no, DE is under no obligation to heed us when we make petitions about design or their artistic vision.

Quote

The appeal of DE's aesthetics was initially the concept of space ninja's(which they have woefully gotten away from.), and how DE have been open to or inspired by many audience artistic concepts, actually.

 

This doesn't change what I said. Part of the reason we love DE and Warframe is their unique artistic vision, taste, and choices.

Every story, every movie, every game, every comic, and every piece of artwork is inspired by those that came before. Every artist stands on the shoulders of those who came before them. 

This is as true for DE as it is for IngusDei, so if your point is DE's artistic vision is made up of more than just their core art team's original ideas, yes, and? So what? 

Nowhere in my post did I claim it existed in a bubble, so you're refuting a point I never made, and reading into my post things I never said.

Quote

Ignusdei's design is actually good and does not harm the aesthetics of the product one bit, only improves them.

 

I'm lost. When did anyone ever claim his design harmed the aesthetics of the game? We all love IngusDei's work, so you've truly lost me here.

On 10/20/2017 at 6:51 AM, UrielColtan said:

Yeah, thats exactly what telling people they are "selfish", to be quiet, and believing that that DE should not care about what we think of the visuals, actually is. Their actions are counter to their claim of being against the decision in particular.

2

I can no more silence, or tell anyone to be quiet than you. I'm not a moderator. I don't have that power. I do have a voice and strong opinions. If you disagree with them, that's fine, but changing them into opinions I don't have and haven't espoused (that everyone should be quiet) won't work.

We may want DE to care what we think of the visuals, but reality and facts show they don't have to, and often don't. We hated Mag's Nova's Asuri (I think it's Asuri), but they followed through and added it to the game. 

Quote

"Dark pessimism" heh, no doubt thats what he and you feels, but submissiveness is not a particularly persuasive or good argument with me, and little more than softshoe caping for bad decisions by a company.

2

1

You mistake realism for submissiveness, and you continue to mistake my opinions and points as arguments that fail to persuade you.

Have a good day.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Rhekemi

[phoenix1992]

33 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

That's the very definition of a submissive position, actually. Wading in the pool of marketed fatalism, has made some poor souls unaware of this and and blind to their true potential, tsk tsk.   A petition is collective, hardly selfish, it takes into account the positions of people who outnumber the staff of DE by droves.  And I love how we like to play fast and loose with what we label "selfish'. Us paying DE is so selfish. "Personal reasons"  counter is a non argument, looking at DE's decisions in regard to the Ember deluxe skin.

Uriel I will say it frankly only one time

Do not put words in my mouth, do not assume and do not equalize things.  Stop attaching insulting words you half read trough the dictionary to people.  
I really don't care how pompous you think it is to call people submissive, or how much you want to bend what selfish means (hint using others in order to gain what you want is still counted as selfish), but please stop doing that.  You trying to compare DE's staff to "droves of people" also falls flat on its face, due to the assumption that 1 person = 1 vote, this is not voting bulletin.

DE will do whatever the hell they want (and have done so on multiple occasions), you are welcome to input opinion based on that doing (as is the case of the rest of us), but that this doe snot mean that this opinion is well constructed, valid or will be taken in consideration, which was mostly the point of @Rhekemi. 

PS: Before you start jumping to assumptions and attaching other fancy names (as you have done before) : I do not like the skin, or the current business model, or the direction the game is heading towards, and have made my point about those things on multiple occasions. That does not mean I will sheepishly jump to any anti DE statement.

Edited October 20, 2017 by phoenix1992
Typo in the name, was not made on purpose.

[Hypernaut1]

13 hours ago, UrielColtan said:

In shill land it may seem like that but in reality not so much. "Edgy" and "easily recognizable", really, these are the two descriptions you want to try and convince us with in regards to Feyarch or Strega? People gravitate toward what looks at best symmetrically, spectrally, texturally and chromatically alluring, be it familiar or not. There is little thinking outside of the box with this new Ember Deluxe Skin, she is just a Rooster, which, disregarding the fact that its not a fetching concept to go with for a female frame, its unatttactive to boot. This mohawk obsession is also edge personified, to the point of hindering art decisions.

You lose my respect if you start off your response with lame buzz words like "shill". I was going to respond, but I won't dignify your post any further.

Edited October 20, 2017 by Hypernaut1