Lets talk about ember for a minute...

[phoenix1992]

Ok, let's clean up some mess because... why not? 
I am tired of half baked excuses to change Ember coming from the point of view "I have a voice, hence I should totally execute the right to use it".
Here is the deal :
What you see in your Alerts, Invasions and fissures is not Ember. 
What @polarity showed is an Ember.
This is an Ember


Even more this is Mine, Ember : 

 

A profile old enough to Defy the new Galatine Prime, Akstiletto prime and so on.
Is this enough for Bragging and Credibility? Hope so, because I am not in the mood to disclose more profile information.
So here is the Deal towards OP and many other forum dwellers that are fast to trow the stone, but slow to get dirty and painstakenly year by year check out how Ember Holds up.

1. Ember weaknesses :

They are present. Some of them are fair trade offs - During WoF you can't pick gain Energy from support frames. You are relatively squishy. You are Fire. Some are not fair or questionable at best, let's see them: 
a) WoF has a hard cap at currently effected targets - One of the very few abilities that have that. What, you never did read what exactly WoF does - sure, go check it now. You can't face melt half of the map all together. This is reserved for other AoE frames.
b) The passive  - You can't use it reliably outside of certain missions with fire modifier, and it does not trigger during WoF. So.... If you are fighting Hyeka masters, you would most likely be in WoF and... the passive won't do anything. 10/10 DE, 2015 design at its finest.
c) Fireball - The only "1" elemental ability that does not have a native buffer. Hydro can hold for more power and range, Volt has the charge up, Frost hits with a lot better status and interacts with his globes.
d) Painful matchmaking. Let's play on the last part a little bit more.

2. Matchmaking :
a) Infested - BURN, ALL SHALL BURN. Unless Eximus, then we have to smack the face a little bit.
b) Corpus - Oh boy. Ember can't break Nulifiers bubbles. And guess what happens in most Sortie Corpus - Nulifer zerg rush. Because DE never could balance the Corpus faction in another way (and I still tip my hat to them).
c) Grineer - I am pretty sure that the Grineers all come from alternative timeline in which Nazzi Germany won, because those boys love them Blitzcraigz. They are more than able to ravage Ember faster than a rule 34 Warframe post. Add on top of that the Hyeka Master and the Long range units that just snipe you outside of your Abilities range and you are in for a fun time.

3. Ember in "high level content"

Can you even Play Ember in high level - yup. And it can be fun as hell. But you are not a DPS frame. I don't know if this was the original intention, but this is the result in post U18 (sortie update) - you, as an Ember player have to be fast, agile and implement any Guerrilla Warfare tactic you can think off. Hit and run, smash enemies with finishers due to your augments, deny face to face confrontations, use heavy elemental weaponry, alone. No support can save you, most buffs can't get to you in time and you better think fast when you see Nulifiers or mines.

Does Ember need some change?
Yeah, she does. That passive and 1 do nothing with big impact. Arguably her 3 is also out of touch next to other abilities. 
Does Ember need a rework?
Not yet. Maybe if we start meeting level 100+ eximus units more often we will speak again.
But my "Low level/T3 sorties!"
Balancing the game around low level content is Kubrow Dung. All the salt in the world won't change this fact.
Balancing the game around Sorties is another cringe moments. Sorties are not hard because the enemies are big. Sorties are "hard" because of additional modifiers you see once per day. The point there is to pick proper gear, not to sneeze at the task and for it to die (which happens due to power creep, but this is another topic).
 

[(XBOX)blazephoenix118]

6 hours ago, phoenix1992 said:

Does Ember need some change?
Yeah, she does. That passive and 1 do nothing with big impact. Arguably her 3 is also out of touch next to other abilities. 
Does Ember need a rework?
Not yet. Maybe if we start meeting level 100+ eximus units more often we will speak again.
But my "Low level/T3 sorties!"

 

this is exactly what I was trying to convey. ember does not need a rework, but she does need changes. I couldn't agree with you more

[polarity]

How about these changes:

• Passive - Wild Fire:  Any fire proc caused by other players within 20m of Ember (who are not another Ember, or things could get crazy), or at any range when caused by Ember's weapons, has a 50% chance to spread to other enemies within 5m, almost guaranteeing everything gets procced in tightly packed groups (only applies to the initial proc, not re-applications while active, because server load).
• Fireball - Gains an effect called Melt, which gradually reduces enemy armor by up to 100% over the course of any fire proc it causes (that's 100% on the target, and 50% on anything within 5m of it), or immediately when applied to an enemy that is already under the effect of a fire proc (so it can benefit from her passive).
• WoF - Changed from immediate fixed damage to an initial 50% of the target's current health (affected by armor), and then (as it already is) a fixed amount if it also causes a status proc, or (new mechanic) one is already present, with both the chance (in the first case) and damage amount determined by power strength.

Why these?

• Passive - As some of her abilities now require fire procs to be present on targets to gain maximum or immediate benefit, this makes them more likely on tightly packed groups of enemies, essentially giving her weapons the same small AoE status effect as her Fireball ability.
• Fireball - It needs a reason to be used besides something to cast while reloading (especially if one of its existing effects is given to her weapons).  Having a targeted, small AoE armor removal gives Ember a way amplify damage against small groups/tougher enemies, without making her too OP by letting her combine large AoE armor stripping with large AoE damage (also encourages more tactical play through the use of choke-points).
• WoF - No longer one-shots everything in lower levels, giving other players time to get kills in, however, it can still get kills over time and through repeat applications if the Ember decides to play solo (the passive is there to assist with the over time part of this, where a build favors range over power strength, and the resulting low status doesn't guarantee that an over-time part will occur).  Now scales infinitely, provided you can wait for multiple applications to individual targets to cause kills, as the over-time part will still fall off in damage.

tl;dr:

Better ability synergy, useful passive, better scaling, less OP at lower levels while in groups, while still being OP while solo, has an ability to help avoid the major weaknesses incurred by being heavily reliant on a single damage type.

Edited September 17, 2017 by polarity

[(PSN)Iron--Phantom--]

In all honesty, Ember is like last on the list of "Warframes that need a rework"

in my opinion warframes that need a much needed rework are.

1-Zephyr

2-Chroma

3-Ash

These 3 desperately need a rework more than ember

[(XBOX)Knight of Dis]

I'm just about to be farming Ember for the first time, and shortly there after working on grinding corrupted mods to make her a killer for relic farming. I don't see a change coming, maybe eventually but there are other warframes that just feel useless after a point, if not entirely at all because they just aren't worth getting. Cough... Atlas... Cough. I hate archwing, so unless I run into someone who's willing to run the whole thing with me (read: Do the Missions for me) I won't even be looking at him. Aside from Atlas however, as has been pointed out, the Oberon and Hydroid reworks were... lackluster. I'd rather then work on new frames or better yet, even more content for us to play than taking the time to rework a frame that for all intents and purposes works as intended.

[Flaezon]

I hope DE never ever Nerf Ember's World on Fire. She's a Goddess. A true Orokin deadly machine, even on Axi Fissures, it's just run around and let the other Tenno eat your dust. Exterminate missions, capture missions, they're finished in no time. I totally agree, she needs a buff because why not, we want to see the World on Fire.

Spoiler

bump

 

Edited September 20, 2017 by Venoct

[IrisDragoon]

honestly the only thing about her kit that needs a rework is fireball. it's just a waste of energy like the Odanata's seeking fire except, well... it can fire proc. sometimes.

the only way i can think of it being useful without completely repealing and replace removing the ability is if DE gives it something similar to the nightwatch napalm mod for ogris where a zone of fiery ash is placed on the ground after detonation that can cause low damage to you but has a high chance of causing a fire proc. this gives synergy for her passive as lets face it, you will rarely get fire proc'd unless you go out of your way to get it and most of the time its from a enemy that unless you kill in the next 2 seconds will murder your &#!... also its a fire-proc-ing zone that can help to keep a small corridor CC'd.

but that's just my 2cents on the ability, i dont main ember so fireball may have some great use that i wouldnt know of since im the type of person who just spams 2 followed up by 3 in a Flash Accelerant build.

[MadHatHacker]

On 9/15/2017 at 11:20 PM, polarity said:

7.47 times damage multiplier before Growing Power, Energy Conversion or Flash Accelerant bonuses.

Used with a Vaykor Hek and Jat Kusar with pure fire builds, and a Rad/Viral/Corrosive Tysis in cases anything resists that element.

Her abilities do work together, because you're usually following up Accelerant with either Fire Blast or WoF.

That build is going to be awful to play with, possibly even if you have a full stack of Energize and maxed Zenurik. Your supplemental stats are awful and your actual maxed power strength is going to be available so rarely it kinda seems pointless. 

Not to mention the glaring lack of survivability and the fact  that there are better frames for DPS that will have similar output with less investment and none of the scaling issues. 

[Heatnix.]

Love Ember's design and fire characters. Hate her tool kit. It's basic, it's boring and it's annoying to everyone else. I play alone when I use Ember so that I don't bother anyone by just... pressing one Key and running around as if I were doing something to deserve all those kills.

[polarity]

42 minutes ago, MadHatHacker said:

That build is going to be awful to play with, possibly even if you have a full stack of Energize and maxed Zenurik. Your supplemental stats are awful and your actual maxed power strength is going to be available so rarely it kinda seems pointless. 

Not to mention the glaring lack of survivability and the fact  that there are better frames for DPS that will have similar output with less investment and none of the scaling issues. 

The difference between you and me though, is I have actually played that, found it both perfectly viable, and a lot of fun to play, and have decided on it as my default Ember build.

I used something similar to do T4 defenses to 40 minutes, with Energy Siphon replacing Growing Power, and Handspring replacing Flash Accelerant.  I have no arcanes, and I was using Vazarin focus back then.

The fact that you're regularly casting Accelerant covers half of survivability.  Vazarin covers the other (only needed because I was diving head first into nullifier bubbles, and clearing them of bombards and gunners, and it did occasionally go wrong.  More often I was using it to rez others, who couldn't cope as well with the level of content as my Ember).

As for available power strength, constantly fire proccing with my primary (at least, it still has I/P/S), and having a low reload, large magazine, high fire rate, bullet spewing Stinger on my sentinel with rad/viral at ~20% status chance, ensures I have at least 3 statuses up almost constantly.


I suggest you spend more time actually playing the game, and less theory-crafting.


 

[ShadesofWhites]

On 9/16/2017 at 1:34 AM, polarity said:

You seriously need to learn how to play Ember if you think she needs another defensive ability.  Try actually reading the ability descriptions for starters, and then stop building for constant WoF.  The only thing that makes Ember boring is bad players' reliance on the push-4-to-walking-simulator ability, and refusal to combine her other abilities with moving and shooting.

Yeah. And you need to learn how you use to play Ember.

Not LITERALLY one way.

 

You could OH and go full power strength, while reducing Range to near nothingness, to have a Tank Nuke.

You could go Range+Efficiency to have an average enemy level AoE.

You could go Efficiency+Strength to have a medium range nice damage AoE, and partial tankyness.

 

Now you have, "use these exact mods we made, virtually specifically for one frame, after the fact to fix what we screwed up with Ember" Build. Which seems to be exactly what's happening to every Frame.

Edited September 20, 2017 by ShadesofWhites

[(XBOX)calvina]

Just dropping this here since it's an Ember related thread, in regards to some suggestions on her first ability.

Proposed changes:

Keep fireball as if is, however, add a splash effect where after making contact, the fireball explodes and throws out globs of fire that drop and make puddles of flames which burns and inflicts fire status on enemies walking over it.

Additionally: Holding the ability down will instead allow ember to slam the ground and make a firewall that also burns enemies that walk over it. (I'm sure this can be a thing, since hydroid benefits from holding the ability button to "charge up")

 

And yes, if these suggestions sound familiar, I am ripping off scorch from Titanfall 2. :D

Spoiler

 

 

[Knight_Ex]

When I see these threads my first reaction is a facepalm followed by seeing how old the account is and to which I reply, Your're not old enough to be suggesting changes to the games mechanics, play the game for a year, enjoy the other things warframe has to offer before you start "suggesting" reworks and changes, and if you're one of those people that say this is your new account and that you have a MR 23 account then post your damn question on that account and more people will likely take you seriously, this just smells of another new player that got blindsided by an Ember in one of the low leveled missions that was killing everything, its almost as bad as the "Omgz Ember 2 OP nerfz naow!".

[Trowicia]

On 9/17/2017 at 1:17 AM, polarity said:

How about these changes:

• Passive - Wild Fire:  Any fire proc caused by other players within 20m of Ember (who are not another Ember, or things could get crazy), or at any range when caused by Ember's weapons, has a 50% chance to spread to other enemies within 5m, almost guaranteeing everything gets procced in tightly packed groups (only applies to the initial proc, not re-applications while active, because server load).
• Fireball - Gains an effect called Melt, which gradually reduces enemy armor by up to 100% over the course of any fire proc it causes (that's 100% on the target, and 50% on anything within 5m of it), or immediately when applied to an enemy that is already under the effect of a fire proc (so it can benefit from her passive).
• WoF - Changed from immediate fixed damage to an initial 50% of the target's current health (affected by armor), and then (as it already is) a fixed amount if it also causes a status proc, or (new mechanic) one is already present, with both the chance (in the first case) and damage amount determined by power strength.

Why these?

• Passive - As some of her abilities now require fire procs to be present on targets to gain maximum or immediate benefit, this makes them more likely on tightly packed groups of enemies, essentially giving her weapons the same small AoE status effect as her Fireball ability.
• Fireball - It needs a reason to be used besides something to cast while reloading (especially if one of its existing effects is given to her weapons).  Having a targeted, small AoE armor removal gives Ember a way amplify damage against small groups/tougher enemies, without making her too OP by letting her combine large AoE armor stripping with large AoE damage (also encourages more tactical play through the use of choke-points).
• WoF - No longer one-shots everything in lower levels, giving other players time to get kills in, however, it can still get kills over time and through repeat applications if the Ember decides to play solo (the passive is there to assist with the over time part of this, where a build favors range over power strength, and the resulting low status doesn't guarantee that an over-time part will occur).  Now scales infinitely, provided you can wait for multiple applications to individual targets to cause kills, as the over-time part will still fall off in damage.

tl;dr:

Better ability synergy, useful passive, better scaling, less OP at lower levels while in groups, while still being OP while solo, has an ability to help avoid the major weaknesses incurred by being heavily reliant on a single damage type.

Although I don't use WoF for damage but instead, for CC, I wholeheartedly accept this proposal as far as her ability & passive changes goes. I'd love to put Fireball to more use and a bit of armor shredding attributes is a godsend.

(Pls make this happen DE as a late birthday gift to me ;_;)

[(PSN)Silverback73]

On September 16, 2017 at 2:17 AM, (Xbox One)blazephoenix118 said:

I'm not saying she's weak. With the right mods she can be a powerhouse. What I am saying though is that these warframes that have been getting a rework have had their abilities tweaked to where they work with one another. Ember needs something like that , and some other warframes too. I'm not asking for a rework where you turn a bad warframe into a good one, I'm asking for a good warframe to be turned into an AMAZING one. Like nidus level good

Firequake augment.  

[MadHatHacker]

20 hours ago, polarity said:

The difference between you and me though, is I have actually played that, found it both perfectly viable, and a lot of fun to play, and have decided on it as my default Ember build.

I used something similar to do T4 defenses to 40 minutes, with Energy Siphon replacing Growing Power, and Handspring replacing Flash Accelerant.  I have no arcanes, and I was using Vazarin focus back then.

The fact that you're regularly casting Accelerant covers half of survivability.  Vazarin covers the other (only needed because I was diving head first into nullifier bubbles, and clearing them of bombards and gunners, and it did occasionally go wrong.  More often I was using it to rez others, who couldn't cope as well with the level of content as my Ember).

As for available power strength, constantly fire proccing with my primary (at least, it still has I/P/S), and having a low reload, large magazine, high fire rate, bullet spewing Stinger on my sentinel with rad/viral at ~20% status chance, ensures I have at least 3 statuses up almost constantly.


I suggest you spend more time actually playing the game, and less theory-crafting.


 

Bruh, I've got almost five thousand hours on this game. I've played so much Ember, I remember when she was a dude with parachute pants and everyone played her as a melee brawler. And I can tell you that the build you're using, while it may be fun and it may cater to your playstyle, is grossly difficult to play, doesn't address the issues with her scaling, and is extremely inefficient. That doesn't mean you can't make it work, or that it can't be good in many scenarios, or anything else. If you're skilled enough to make it work and you enjoy it, great! That's really awesome and that diversity of play is one of the things I love about Warframe! 

Buuuuut the build is still extremely niche and in most cases will be outclassed by more a more generalist loadout. You're pushing the hard wall she hits as enemy armor scales perhaps a couple dozen levels farther away, while crippling the supplemental stats that make her an excellent cleaner.