Riven Mod Luck

[Mippy]

Just hit me hard

 

 

[Gremlin]

Yeah its not horrible. Id probably roll it though.

[(PSN)s3d_sas]

Roll it!!!!!

[Miser_able]

What's the second Stat? 

[Mippy]

1 minute ago, Miser_able said:

What's the second Stat? 

damage

[Blacksonfive]

They should really increment this horrible lottery RNG system, let us roll each stat individually, awarding some sense of accomplishment 

[TqLxQuanZ]

4 minutes ago, Blacksonfive said:

They should really increment this horrible lottery RNG system, let us roll each stat individually, awarding some sense of accomplishment 

Agree, I've seen over hundred of rerolls still receive bad stats on it. Let us decide which stat to stay and which to reroll would be great.

[Blacksonfive]

21 hours ago, TqLxQuanZ said:

Agree, I've seen over hundred of rerolls still receive bad stats on it. Let us decide which stat to stay and which to reroll would be great.

Indeed, I'm fine with the rng to obtain a riven (which is kinda low but understandable), then the lucky to get it for a certain weapon (again, I understand the reason for that) but keep in mind, those are already 2 layers of heavy rng, then again, you have the lottery of rolling stats, you can roll a thousand times and still get crap stats, there's no accomplishment by farming kuva and rolling stats, you have not even the slightest control or influence about it, it doesn't matter what you do

I think this was suggested before but i was thinking the other day and being able to roll each stat individually would be perfect, you'd still have some rng but it would be more of a controllable environment 

Edited September 27, 2017 by Blacksonfive

[Hypernaut1]

Wait.... Are those supposed to be horrible stats? I'm confused here

[khangalanga]

13 minutes ago, Blacksonfive said:

Indeed, I'm fine with the rng to obtain a riven (which is kinda low but understandable), then the lucky to get it for a certain weapon (again, I understand the reason for that) but keep in mind, those are already 2 layers of heavy rng, then again, you have the lottery of rolling stats, you can roll a thousand times and still get crap stats, there's no accomplishment by farming kuva and rolling stats, you have not even the slightest control or influence about it, it doesn't matter what you do

I think this was suggested before but i was thinking the other day and being able to roll each stat individually would be perfect, you'd still have some rng but it would be more of a controllable environment 

This would literally ruin the riven economy

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

31 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Wait.... Are those supposed to be horrible stats? I'm confused here

Agreed, I don't understand why there's an implication that this roll is bad at all. It's freaking fantastic.

[Blacksonfive]

1 hour ago, khangalanga said:

This would literally ruin the riven economy

I don't really see that happening, its an economy that thrived on a really bad mechanic that's not healthy for the game overall, the market would still operate under the concept of free market, good rivens are not priced at "2k" for instance, that's what the seller thinks it's worth, if he finds a buyer that agrees with that, good for them, you still can buy good, if not better, rivens for lower prices, this mentality wouldn't change.

I do agree that the prices would change, with a tendency to drop, because now you would have more rivens competing with stats that are similar, but the other rng layers would keep this in balance, i don't believe the toll would be too strong, "prices" range is really too far apart nowadays, there is a huge gap to fit if the influx of those rivens would happen to exist at this scale

And after all, this would be a balance, remember when spintace, simulor, tonkor, and so on balance happened? I liked those mechanics, but it was for a better game experience overall, although prices would be affected (even though i believe i would not be a total ruin), this sugestion is to increase a game mechanic performance

Edited September 27, 2017 by Blacksonfive

[khangalanga]

6 minutes ago, Blacksonfive said:

I don't really see that happening, its an economy that thrived on a really bad mechanic that's not healthy for the game overall, the market would still operate under the concept of free market, good rivens are not priced at "2k" for instance, that's what the seller thinks it's worth, if he finds a buyer that agrees with that, good for them, you still can buy good, if not better, rivens for lower prices, this mentality wouldn't change.

I do agree that the prices would change, with a tendency to drop, because now you would have more rivens competing with stats that are similar, but the other rng layers would keep this in balance, i don't believe the toll would be too strong, "prices" range is really too far apart nowadays, there is a huge gap to fit if the influx of those rivens would happen to exist at this scale

And after all, this would be a balance, remember when spintace, simulor, tonkor, and so on balance happened? I liked those mechanics, but it was for a better game experience overall, although prices would be affected (even though i believe i would not be a total ruin), this sugestion is to increase a game mechanic performance

At its current state, whether people like it or not, the lure of rivens is that you can greatly boost your weapons' capabilities at the risk of pure chance and luck. By picking what stats you get to keep, you will get a huge saturation of rivens with perfect mods because people will literally only pick the best stats available. At its current state, the randomness prevents thousands of perfect rivens and keeps the riven game interesting. With the proposed mechanism, everyone will have the perfect mods, making the game stale.

[phoenix1992]

1 hour ago, khangalanga said:

This would literally ruin the riven economy

The... what now?

Please elaborate how the only form of P2W in Warframe is something that we should protect.

[khangalanga]

4 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

The... what now?

Please elaborate how the only form of P2W in Warframe is something that we should protect.

1. Because tons of people like it and the randomness of the rolls keeps the game interesting. Sometimes you settle on a decent roll on a riven, sometimes you keep getting more and more kuva to keep the rolls going hoping to get an ever better set. By letting people pick the stats they want, the game can essentially get more stale because what is essentially being implemented is a "make your own mod" subgame. Though not a lot of people are fans of RNG, it keeps the game exciting by not giving everyone the exact same gear.

2. Any flow of platinum is good for a game standpoint. DE needs to make money, and by keeping the plat flowing, you're helping both DE by eventually putting plat into other people's hands who can put it into reactors/catalysts/forma/etc. and new players by giving them a chance to roll a great riven and hit the jackpot. Lots of veterans are just hoarding plat (I'm no veteran, but that's even what I'm doing), and rivens keep the plat flowing. 

[phoenix1992]

9 minutes ago, khangalanga said:

1. Because tons of people like it and the randomness of the rolls keeps the game interesting. Sometimes you settle on a decent roll on a riven, sometimes you keep getting more and more kuva to keep the rolls going hoping to get an ever better set. By letting people pick the stats they want, the game can essentially get more stale because what is essentially being implemented is a "make your own mod" subgame. Though not a lot of people are fans of RNG, it keeps the game exciting by not giving everyone the exact same gear.

 

This is arguable statement. If you can say with poker face that everyone plays for the meta min maxing in order to get CC, CD and DMG - be my guest, but let's be honest - this is not the case. By letting people pick the stats they want, they still have to wrestle with 2 rng gates (getting the riven type and the riven weapon) from a not small pool.

 

9 minutes ago, khangalanga said:

2. Any flow of platinum is good for a game standpoint. DE needs to make money, and by keeping the plat flowing, you're helping both DE by eventually putting plat into other people's hands who can put it into reactors/catalysts/forma/etc. and new players by giving them a chance to roll a great riven and hit the jackpot. Lots of veterans are just hoarding plat (I'm no veteran, but that's even what I'm doing), and rivens keep the plat flowing. 

This is also extremely arguable. 
I could enter details about Potatoes and slots that are honestly TMI, but let's say for the sake of argument that neither potatoes or formas are nearly as hard hitting as people assume. "Keeping the platinum flowing" can be said only based on the assumption that platinum is used, and you just stated that a lot of "veterans are hoarding plat" (that they are). So... If they are hoarding plat, how does the flow go?

But this ignores my main point. This is an extreme pay to win mechanic, that on top of that is tied to RNGesus to the point of gambling. I don't know what you have sold as rivens, and I would not require this information from you (after all, some personal integrity), but from the bypass of Opticor, Soma, Galatine, Sicarus and others that have unlocked in the past weeks... It is ugly mate. 10-20$ (with 75% discount) for a riven that has nothing to do with my personal skills. DE was able to make money before the riven system, either via the Prime access or by providing quality content inside the game with heavy visual customization or lucrative packs (like Hunhow for example).

Edited September 27, 2017 by phoenix1992

[Blacksonfive]

33 minutes ago, khangalanga said:

At its current state, whether people like it or not, the lure of rivens is that you can greatly boost your weapons' capabilities at the risk of pure chance and luck. By picking what stats you get to keep, you will get a huge saturation of rivens with perfect mods because people will literally only pick the best stats available. At its current state, the randomness prevents thousands of perfect rivens and keeps the riven game interesting. With the proposed mechanism, everyone will have the perfect mods, making the game stale.

My thing is that i don't believe that the saturation would be huge, but it's hard to speculate without proper data (knowing the ratio or number of rivens dropped daily, what weapon is being given and so on) although i believe that those many layers or rng without any sense of accomplishment or progression, where you either hit the jackpot or blow you head off, do not provide freshness to the game, i think its easier to get burned out than invested on this system

I am not happy with the current riven system, i think it could be tweaked some more (even by influencing the kuva farm, or other indirect change), my suggestion could be too extreme too, i think we are still missing a middle ground approach, something that would not rely so much on rng, or even if relied on it, the player would still accomplish something

Edited September 27, 2017 by Blacksonfive

[khangalanga]

12 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

This is arguable statement. If you can say with poker face that everyone plays for the meta min maxing in order to get CC, CD and DMG - be my guest, but let's be honest - this is not the case. By letting people pick the stats they want, they still have to wrestle with 2 rng gates (getting the riven type and the riven weapon) from a not small pool.

 

This is also extremely arguable. 
I could enter details about Potatoes and slots that are honestly TMI, but let's say for the sake of argument that neither potatoes or formas are nearly as hard hitting as people assume. "Keeping the platinum flowing" can be said only based on the assumption that platinum is used, and you just stated that a lot of "veterans are hoarding plat" (that they are). So... If they are hoarding plat, how does the flow go?

But this ignores my main point. This is an extreme pay to win mechanic, that on top of that is tied to RNGesus to the point of gambling. I don't know what you have sold as rivens, and I would not require this information from you (after all, some personal integrity), but from the bypass of Opticor, Soma, Galatine, Sicarus and others that have unlocked in the past weeks... It is ugly mate. 10-20$ (with 75% discount) for a riven that has nothing to do with my personal skills. DE was able to make money before the riven system, either via the Prime access or by providing quality content inside the game with heavy visual customization or lucrative packs (like Hunhow for example).

For the first part, I never said everyone plays to min-max. There are a ton of casual players, like myself, who get content with a decent riven, and when we get it, we get all gitty and excited because it was a decent role from uncertainty. By guaranteeing at least one outcome, it becomes less of a "oh nice i got a damage roll!" to a "ugh I didn't get CC to match my CD/Dam/-zoom riven." You lose the element of surprise and excitement like a kid on christmas day and replace it with a suboptimal tax return.

The vets hoard platinum, but when they find a riven they like, they are more likely to dump some of that hoarded platinum. If they can make their own riven with guaranteed outcomes, people are less likely to spend platinum when they can get it themselves at a much cheaper alternative. Also, I wouldn't really call this a pay to win mechanic. Does it make your gear better? Yes. Is the game unplayable without it? No. They make a few aspects of your weapon better, but you'll notice almost every single build that someone recommends is a build WITHOUT a riven. Why is that? Because the game and weapons are not meant to be designed around rivens. With your proposal, the rivens will have guaranteed outcomes and will quickly become a "must have or this build cannot function." In other words, the game WILL end up revolving around rivens. The reason they don't right now is because of the RNG.

Yeah, DE was able to make money before rivens, but that doesn't mean they aren't making more money with them. They are coming out with big projects like PoE and as such need some kind of support for it, that being the consistent flow of platinum throughout the game. 

[phoenix1992]

Just now, khangalanga said:

For the first part, I never said everyone plays to min-max. There are a ton of casual players, like myself, who get content with a decent riven, and when we get it, we get all gitty and excited because it was a decent role from uncertainty. By guaranteeing at least one outcome, it becomes less of a "oh nice i got a damage roll!" to a "ugh I didn't get CC to match my CD/Dam/-zoom riven." You lose the element of surprise and excitement like a kid on christmas day and replace it with a suboptimal tax return.

 

I did not mean that.
(And I would certainly want to hear more about "casual players", because I am pretty sure that there will be a big mismatch there.)
I meant one of the functions of riven that does not make them "valuable"" by a long shot - making obscene stat balances just for the sake of it. Like fire rate, range and so on. 

 

3 minutes ago, khangalanga said:

The vets hoard platinum, but when they find a riven they like, they are more likely to dump some of that hoarded platinum. If they can make their own riven with guaranteed outcomes, people are less likely to spend platinum when they can get it themselves at a much cheaper alternative. Also, I wouldn't really call this a pay to win mechanic. Does it make your gear better? Yes. Is the game unplayable without it? No. They make a few aspects of your weapon better, but you'll notice almost every single build that someone recommends is a build WITHOUT a riven. Why is that? Because the game and weapons are not meant to be designed around rivens. With your proposal, the rivens will have guaranteed outcomes and will quickly become a "must have or this build cannot function." In other words, the game WILL end up revolving around rivens. The reason they don't right now is because of the RNG.

 

I am pretty sure that "vet" also means different thing for us two.
Am I vet enough?  
Maybe, most likely no (where is my founder pack QQ).
I am not going to even to poke the statement about recommend builds with a stick, due to multiple factors that more or less end with "well  it does not matter, because Mot  is not the be all end all". But even without the rivens, we are able to out damage content to around 150 without many hiccups so... 

6 minutes ago, khangalanga said:

Yeah, DE was able to make money before rivens, but that doesn't mean they aren't making more money with them. They are coming out with big projects like PoE and as such need some kind of support for it, that being the consistent flow of platinum throughout the game. 

How DE are making money is a looooooooooooooooong af topic that is not for this tread.
But please, make no mistake - as someone that worked in the game industry, including on F2P games, and with enough experience with DE - Ninjas that play free and deal with trade chat, are valuable assets. Not as valuable as image, something that DE is loosing the past year. We are maybe 23 million loo.. users, but the turn over rate is obscene at best. 

But this is your point of view, and I will not argue with you over that. I don't want to enter a loop of is "Pay 2 win" good for DE in the long run or how they are acting when it comes down to "love letters towards vets".  Have a good evening.