My Clan Was Stolen!!! - A cautionary tale

[TheGodofWiFi]

1 minute ago, vvhorus said:

I would be extremely pissed for being booted out of the house that I built myself...

If your clan leader left/is on hiatus and it's that important to you to have an active leader, leave the clan and find another one. Don't just usurp someone else's, especially if you didn't make any effort in contributing to any of the research or construction...

Hear, hear. Spending all this time and effort building a house only to have someone kick you out of it, would be beyond infuriating.

I seriously don't understand why there is a limit on a Warlords absence in the first place. A good clan does not need a Warlord to function. The guy who swindled the OP clearly was doing it purely because he wanted to reap the benefits of someone else's work, since he apparently kicked all the officers of the clan soon after he got control.

[PrVonTuckIII]

2 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Hear, hear. Spending all this time and effort building a house only to have someone kick you out of it, would be beyond infuriating.

To use your own analogy, if you leave your house unattended without taking the proper measures beforehand, like handing the keys to someone you trust, or whatnot, then expect to get robbed. At least in the OP's scenario, they should have done something to prevent it from happening. If he had a medical emergency or something, then I wouldn't be saying this stuff. 

Does it suck that a newbie walked in and did such a thing? Yes, of course. Should a newbie be able to be promoted that far? No. Should they be able to make a complaint? Yes. Then the next highest ranking person would be selected for the position.

[-Temp0-]

9 hours ago, DaftMeat said:

While I feel bad for your situation, I also feel bad for all the players who were left behind in your clan without any active leadership.

You hardly need it. There's a very limited things you can't do without a warlord.

Also a perfect example why solo clans is the best that happened in WF hands down even if you get the short end of the stick in the events.

[TheGodofWiFi]

1 minute ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

worst-case, you simply ask someone else to do it for you

Isn't asking someone to go onto your account against the EULA? 

5 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

They probably do have a reason; we just don't know it.

Would love it if they informed us. I hope DE isn't taking a YouTube approach.

6 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

I said before the emergency

Not all emergencies give the victims a few weeks notice beforehand.

[PrVonTuckIII]

1 minute ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Isn't asking someone to go onto your account against the EULA? 

At this point, we're going into rules-lawyering, but IMO, asking a friend/parent/relative to quickly log in and then log out isn't really going to hurt DE. For all intents and purposes, you might as well be logging in.

2 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Not all emergencies give the victims a few weeks notice beforehand.

With the exception of life-threatening medical emergencies, almost every emergency I can think of gives you at least five minutes to send a notice to your clan, or kick the members.

 

[TheGodofWiFi]

2 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

To use your own analogy, if you leave your house unattended without taking the proper measures beforehand, like handing the keys to someone you trust, or whatnot, then expect to get robbed.

So say you took all the necessary precautions beforehand, informed your officers and such. But you still have that one person who privately messages DE and requests command of the clan based on your absence. Will DE send an email to the Warlord, or ask one of the officers? Apparently not. It definitely seems like taking over a well-organised clan is entirely possible. That needs to change.

[TheGodofWiFi]

3 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

With the exception of life-threatening medical emergencies, almost every emergency I can think of gives you at least five minutes to send a notice to your clan, or kick the members.

Again, if an emergency does happen, a video game clan wouldn't be the first thing on peoples minds. Also your solution to not being overthrown is to kick all the members? 

The point is this is all anecdotal stuff, so lets just agree to disagree. Proper precautions need to be made by the Warlord, but DE also need to meet them halfway by making sure they at least send a warning email.

Edited October 6, 2017 by TheGodofWiFi

[vvhorus]

3 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

Again, in a scenario where you don't have an access to a computer/internet, 99% of the time, you will be able to inform people before hand, so things don't happen, or kick your clan members while you're away. In terms of medical conditions, where you're confined to a bed.... worst-case, you simply ask someone else to do it for you, or whatever. There's a solution for practically anything you bring up. 

Again, ignorance is not an excuse. If you didn't know, then that's your fault.

They probably do have a reason; we just don't know it. Again, like I stated above, I'm not against a re-looking at the system. Someone who's completely new shouldn't have the ability to be promoted that far. I'm definitely for the idea of support notifying players beforehand that someone is advocating for their kicking, so that they can respond accordingly to prevent themselves from being kicked.

Seriously, I'm with you here on everything, except for the fact that this is DE's fault. The OP should have done something, especially since this was no emergency. 

"BEFORE." I said before the emergency, one should have a method. For example: evacuation due to weather/natural events: Undoubtedly you'll be given several days of warning beforehand. Therefore, once other things are taken care of, take a minute to notify your clan, or support of your absence.

Edit:

I said I didn't look into things like the Warlord limit. I know exactly how Clans function, considering I was a Warlord of one for a while, and am in a fairly large one at the moment. 

Sorry, but your disconnect from reality staggers me.

If I'm a victim of a natural disaster or suffer from an illness/accident/life circumstance, informing clan members in a video game would be the LAST THING on my mind.

Like I said in my previous post:

15 minutes ago, vvhorus said:

If your clan leader left/is on hiatus and it's that important to you to have an active leader, leave the clan and find another one. Don't just usurp someone else's, especially if you didn't make any effort in contributing to any of the research or construction...

Right now I have family and friends in Puerto Rico who have no power. Do you think any of my friends who play this game care about their clan membership/ownership more than their safety or well being? You need a reality check, my friend...

[PrVonTuckIII]

9 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Proper precautions need to be made by the Warlord, but DE also need to meet them halfway by making sure they at least send a warning email.

Regardless, this is one point I 100% agree with you on. There does need to be a warning system to indicate that you need to do something if you don't want to be kicked. In fact, I'll ask DE for you on the next devstream, because I do agree that while the system works, it needs tweaking to be a bit more forgiving.

7 minutes ago, vvhorus said:

If I'm a victim of a natural disaster or suffer from an illness/accident/life circumstance, informing clan members in a video game would be the LAST THING on my mind.

It's like you didn't read anything I said. In almost every scenario, you will have ample time beforehand (once you've finished any other, more important things) to take whatever measure you wish. The only one I admit that you won't be able to plan for is a life-threatening medical emergency. 

However, this is a moot point. Unless you go into a coma or something (in which case, getting kicked from a clan is the least of your worries), then you should be out of the hospital in a matter of days/weeks - not nearly long enough for your kicking as clan leader to be warranted.

10 minutes ago, vvhorus said:

Right now I have family and friends in Puerto Rico who have no power. Do you think any of my friends who play this game care about their clan membership/ownership more than their safety or well being?

I'm assuming you're referring to the aftermath of the hurricanes? Like I said, assuming people in those areas play, then there were evacuation warnings a good deal of time in advance. Once you've taken care of actually important things (aka - your wellbeing), then you can take 10 minutes to deal with Warframe.

[(PSN)OmegaSlayer]

I came back to this with the Billion Dollars questions...

What do Warlords have to organize nowadays?

What's the life of a clan nowadays?

With the Armistice going on, the researches fully funded and events once in a blue moon, what do clans do?

[WhiteCr0w]

9 hours ago, DaftMeat said:

While I feel bad for your situation, I also feel bad for all the players who were left behind in your clan without any active leadership.

This right here. I'm sorry OP, but your clan wasn't stolen. It was abandoned, and it adapted within the rules that DE has set forth for us. What happened may not seem fair, but you yourself allowed it to be possible, and it happened.

The clan I created (Cosmic Memory) has existed since clans were a possibility. We all take breaks from games for various reasons, but I always made sure there would be enough members around (Who I trust) that could allow the clan to progress.

I would never leave a clan with only one person able to make changes, or others that were also inactive.

[Sziklamester]

4 hours ago, o0Despair0o said:

A whole month, buddy. You should be be happy that the "leader" of your clan isn't like the leader of my old clan before I and some friends decided to go our own way and create a new clan, because he kicked everyone who hasn't been online for just 2 weeks.

Like literally, you went on vacation or something for 2 weeks, and you're kicked.

 

That's the good thing about most smaller clans that big ones - you're less likely to get kicked for some nonsense like this.

That is a sad thing and not really a nice person who kicks just for weeks. In my clan the limit of hiatus was 1 full year after that we kicked peoples whom was inactive during that year but I never made competitive clans and most of them turned out to be something but I always left my clans after I finished my duty there. Now there are 8 ghost clan 3 shadow 2 mountain and 2 moon clan what I made but developed into. 

All is pretty much depending on the person who leads the clan. I also sadly learned what can happen if you invite the wrong persons and promote them. My third or fourth clan was where I promoted some friend but those turned against me and they decided to kick me from the clan and kicked wildly persons just to shape the clan for their likes. No need to say I ignored them instant and moved away.

[vvhorus]

13 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

Regardless, this is one point I 100% agree with you on. There does need to be a warning system to indicate that you need to do something if you don't want to be kicked. In fact, I'll ask DE for you on the next devstream, because I do agree that while the system works, it needs tweaking to be a bit more forgiving.

It's like you didn't read anything I said. In almost every scenario, you will have ample time beforehand (once you've finished any other, more important things) to take whatever measure you wish. The only one I admit that you won't be able to plan for is a life-threatening medical emergency. 

However, this is a moot point. Unless you go into a coma or something (in which case, getting kicked from a clan is the least of your worries), then you should be out of the hospital in a matter of days/weeks - not nearly long enough for your kicking as clan leader to be warranted.

I'm assuming you're referring to the aftermath of the hurricanes? Like I said, assuming people in those areas play, then there were evacuation warnings a good deal of time in advance. Once you've taken care of actually important things (aka - your wellbeing), then you can take 10 minutes to deal with Warframe.

Again, reality check.

If I know of an impending natural disaster, informing my clan is the least of my worries. This is not a job that I need to report to. It's just a f... video game...

Maybe Warframe is of such importance to you that you feel compelled to log in to the game just to inform of your clan mates of your impending absence. Good for you. That doesn't mean that this game should be high on other people's priority lists, especially in the face of disaster/personal well being.

Whatever reasons the OP had for leaving the game, it's no excuse for someone else to usurp what's not rightfully his/hers.

Edited October 6, 2017 by vvhorus

[TheGodofWiFi]

21 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

Regardless, this is one point I 100% agree with you on. There does need to be a warning system to indicate that you need to do something if you don't want to be kicked. In fact, I'll ask DE for you on the next devstream, because I do agree that while the system works, it needs tweaking to be a bit more forgiving.

Great. It’s not just about being a little more forgiving, it’s making sure conmen like the one OP encountered do not happen to anyone. 

Edited October 6, 2017 by TheGodofWiFi

[Sziklamester]

Also there are many competitive clan which rotates the rooster if many peoples not so active in daily they kick them for a more active people. The burn out often happens in these clans because many need teamspeak or discord for chat and only invite peoples whom have headset and any other voice chat options. Another which why is the weird requirements to play 7/24 which is mad because a lot of us have no that time to play so much and otherwise normally everyone plays as much as much they want. I tested some clans where the communication was bad and the player migration was high for various reasons. Normally any clan stay ghost level because the cheapest research costs otherwise not really worth to improve into higher tiers because of the lack clan competitions and there are no tournaments.

Also a normal clan doesn't kick peoples just for degrade their clan level cause the Hema research for example. These things pointing out the players are unpatient and many have competitive mindset and the devs not really bothered to check the consequences. Also any normal clan give enough time to their players and not kicking out them. Also a normal clan leader promote trusted persons to do the same level where he can coordinate and do things because there need active clan coordination and contact.

Edited October 6, 2017 by Sziklamester

[Kaotyke]

7 hours ago, fatpig84 said:

My clan makes it a 3 months rule.
Honestly 30 days is too short to start booting folks.

Yet alone change the Warlord.

Depends actually. Bigger clans can effort that. My lowly Ghost Clan cant. The innactivity thing is what makes me wary of going to Shadow Rank.

[TennoPain]

IMO all clan leaders should be online (most of the time) and yes i do understand there is real life.

[PrVonTuckIII]

29 minutes ago, vvhorus said:

If I know of an impending natural disaster, informing my clan is the least of my worries. This is not a job that I need to report to. It's just a f... video game...

Maybe Warframe is of such importance to you that you feel compelled to log in to the game just to inform of your clan mates of your impending absence. Good for you. That doesn't mean that this game should be high on other people's priority lists, especially in the face of disaster/personal well being.

Whatever reasons the OP had for leaving the game, it's no excuse for someone else to usurp what's not rightfully his/hers.

Do you not know how to read? I literally said, that in the event of such an emergency, it was the least of your concerns. Again, in the event of a natural disaster (which you will hear about in advance), once you've taken care of real life, that still leaves you with more than enough time to deal with your clan.

And don't be hypocritical. If Warframe matters that little to you, then losing clan leadership in the event of an emergency should also be nothing to you. Therefore, your point is moot. If it does matter, but real life is still more important, then, like I said, deal with RL first, then take what minutes you have left to wrap things up with your clan.

In the OP's specific scenario, s/he was not leaving for any emergency. They wanted a leisurely break. Therefore, they should have taken precautions. And like I said, I'm fully on-board for taking a look at changing the system, especially to give more of a warning to leaders, and prevent newbies from gaining high positions of power instantly.

[vvhorus]

52 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

Do you not know how to read? I literally said, that in the event of such an emergency, it was the least of your concerns. Again, in the event of a natural disaster (which you will hear about in advance), once you've taken care of real life, that still leaves you with more than enough time to deal with your clan.

And don't be hypocritical. If Warframe matters that little to you, then losing clan leadership in the event of an emergency should also be nothing to you. Therefore, your point is moot. If it does matter, but real life is still more important, then, like I said, deal with RL first, then take what minutes you have left to wrap things up with your clan.

In the OP's specific scenario, s/he was not leaving for any emergency. They wanted a leisurely break. Therefore, they should have taken precautions. And like I said, I'm fully on-board for taking a look at changing the system, especially to give more of a warning to leaders, and prevent newbies from gaining high positions of power instantly.

I'm not being hypocritical, and I did read your posts. On one hand you say that we should attend to life matters first, and on the other, you say that we should inform the clan of an absence in the case of one anyways. I say screw the clan. My real life situation is more important than a clan in a video game. In the event of a situation, my mind is on that, not on the clan. I'm sorry if that's too hard to comprehend. If my clan members feel lonely and need a new daddy, they can leave and find another clan, not kick me out of mine. Or better yet, leave the clan and CREATE YOUR OWN...

Now, having said that, I do not own a clan (yet), but in the event that someday I might, if I spend my precious real time and real money putting together one and something happens that I can't tend to it in X period of time for whatever reason, it would be comforting to know that it will not be usurped by some power-hungry random with delusions of grandeur whom I had the decency to invite to the clan so he can take advantage of my hard work.

I guess we agree that some sort of change needs to be implemented to protect clan creators. See? I know how to read...

[PrVonTuckIII]

8 minutes ago, vvhorus said:

On one hand you say that we should attend to life matters first, and on the other, you say that we should inform the clan of an absence in the case of one anyways. I say screw the clan. My real life situation is more important than a clan in a video game. In the event of a situation, my mind is on that, not on the clan. I'm sorry if that's too hard to comprehend. If my clan members feel lonely and need a new daddy, they can leave and find another clan, not kick me out of mine. Or better yet, leave the clan and CREATE YOUR OWN...

Why are you assuming that these are mutually exclusive? One can both deal with real life, and once that is complete, take a few minutes to attend to your gaming life. This is, of course, assuming that you care enough to do so. If you don't then this discussion is useless, because such a person wouldn't complain about being kicked from a clan in a game they don't care about.

Seriously, the discussion only has one answer: it's the OP's fault, but DE does need to take a look at the system to stop exploitation.

[K0bra]

Wow this sounds unacceptable and i hope DE rewatch this.This dude clearly hijacked your clan and kicked everyone who could ask uncomfortable questions.Cant believe this because 30 days is really nothing.

I hope you get YOUR clan back.

Best wishes.

[Heavywpnguinea]

Many clans have kick periods shorter than 30 days and if the leader is gone for 30+ days then people in the clan have every right to want a new leader. Literally just a single log in would reset that 30 day timer.

Real life happens, but then what are the rest of your clan members supposed to do if they need to upgrade/decrease clan size or join/leave an alliance or if dark sector ever returns do stuff with that? And as someone said before we don't know how long the topic creator was gone for, just that it was at least 30 days, could have been longer. And even if it was 30 days on the dot, everyone else has no idea when or if the leader is coming back.

[vvhorus]

1 minute ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

Why are you assuming that these are mutually exclusive? One can both deal with real life, and once that is complete, take a few minutes to attend to your gaming life.

I guess you've never experienced a natural disaster. I was born and raised in Puerto Rico, and I've experienced not one, but several hurricanes. Once you are made aware of an impending natural disaster, your main focus is the preservation of the self, loved ones, and those around you. I still remember hurricane Hugo. Before the hurricane, the race was on to get water and provisions, no time to do anything else. After the hurricane, we spent a couple of months without power, and I remember my father having to make hours-long lines just to get ice, water, or fuel. You assume that people will find the time/energy/will in a real-life situation like that to do something as trivial and unnecessary in the greater scheme of things as informing game clan members of an absence...

[vvhorus]

10 minutes ago, Heavywpnguinea said:

Real life happens, but then what are the rest of your clan members supposed to do if they need to upgrade/decrease clan size or join/leave an alliance or if dark sector ever returns do stuff with that?

How about leaving and joining another clan?

[PrVonTuckIII]

8 minutes ago, vvhorus said:

Snip

You're correct; as a Canadian, I have no experience of natural disasters. However, you only support my point: if natural disasters are something that are relatively common to you, and they are of such high priority, why in the world are you giving a crap about something as trivial as clan membership in some game? At least for me, I would have learned to forgo such things, considering the lifestyle a person in your situation would have.