Konzu's Bounty reward system is horrible. Here's how to fix it. (TL;DR: Token System)

[NebbyOtt]

Listen DE, i know it, you know it. You say you want to decrease the grind and then you make it a million times worse, why would an old man give you the most random useless bs at random for doing all this work. Again i have to suggest tokens, completing abounty would yield 1-3 (Yen or whatever) * the level of the bounty, so a level 1 bounty would wield 1-3, a level 2 bounty would yield 2-6, all the way up to 5, which would yield 5-15, and then you could redeem these Yen for items using them as a currency, a token system. random mods would cost 1-2 yen, all the way up to Eidolon Lens BPs costing like 30 Yen. God please don't do the random rewards BS again, i realize you were rushing this out and its easy to just do

reward = random_integer = (rand()%9);

rather then designing a whole new system but what i'm asking is that you don't just leave it that way, please, PLEASE, make a token system, maybe it can extend throughout everyone in Cedus, do some bounties for Konzu, get some Yen, buy an Eidolon Lens BP and a special deluxe mask from the mask girl.

Its the perfect blend of working for getting an item, and having it be acquirable fairly and in a non frustrating, and really fun way. Not only would this be super fair and make things better, but its just more fun getting money then a random grandma present. Right?

Comment down below if you think this should be how it is!

MAKE DE do this for 22.5!!

Edited October 13, 2017 by TennoHack
Added TL;DR

[BlackCoMerc]

This.

A token system should have been in from the get go. More RNG loot tables we do not need.

Moreover, clearing out posts and fighting in free roam could pay small amounts of tokens.

[NebbyOtt]

20 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

A token system should have been in from the get go

[DE]Steve: We know the grind in this game is horrible and we like the RNG about as much as you do, we're looking to decrease the amount of grind, and RNG, while still keeping the idea that you have to work for what you want.

Community: ADD A TOKEN SYSTEM! TOKEN SYSTEM! ADD A TOKEN SYSTEM! WE ALL WANT A TOKEN SYSTEM!

[DE]Steve: Lets add more RNG. A. LOT. more.

 

But seriously like i said its easy and bugfree and just takes a second to just add a "reward = random_integer = (rand()%9);" to the code. Its a day or two, minus bugs to add a new marketplace instance, a new currency to keep track of (even though they just added a ton new resources), have the marketplace check that currency instead of plat or credits or ducats, come up with new sprites for it, bugcheck, and thats all fairly easy, i would guess it would be done in a max of 2 days, but with everything else that was going on i totally understand their haste. But now that the brick is dropped its time to start clearing the dust. After the initial bugfixes are done, this should be a priorety, seeing as how important and impacting it is to the plains.

For the love of god, DE employee who is reading this, PLEASE HELP US.

20 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Moreover, clearing out posts and fighting in free roam could pay small amounts of tokens.

Oh yes! That sounds like a great idea! Maybe you could build up like, "Bounty" as you do things freely in the Plains, much more if you disable a camp, much less if you mine or fish, and you could turn that in for Yen. The amount of Yen you get for each point of Bounty would be exponential, so 1000 bounty would yield 1 yen, 2000 would yield 3 total, 3000 would yield 6 total, and the balancing feature is the more Bounty you have, the more grineer troops will activally spawn and hunt you down, and the higher level those bounty hunter parties would be, so at 1000 bounty, level ~7 parties would show up every so often, at like 6000 bounty, level ~40 parties would be all over you, and you could pay someone with credits that is bounty*10, (so 10 credits for every 1 point of bounty), and they'll claim your bounty and give you the Yen. or something like that.

Edited October 13, 2017 by TennoHack

[CrazyCatLad]

Aye. The missions are too damn repetitive (I assume variety will be added) and they're too long for the bad rewards.

 

Token system is the way to go but we all know DE refuses to implement such systems that would gain fans and cool the flames of annoyance.

[BlackCoMerc]

Even Activision has reduced Grind and RNG in their big online shooter. Don't you think, DE, that those dudes know JUST A LITTLE BIT about player retention versus player burnout?

You think it retains people, but it doesn't. The ability to work toward goals that you KNOW, with certainty, CAN BE achieved retains people.

Eventually, people get tired of gambling their time away. Player numbers will rocket up...and by November 1, they'll drop off again, as players realize they cannot actually achieve anything in this game, that it's all just a dice toss.

Edited October 13, 2017 by BlackCoMerc

[NebbyOtt]

7 minutes ago, Lanieu said:

we all know DE refuses to implement such systems that would gain fans and cool the flames of annoyance.

It sure as hell feels that way, and i almost want to say its true, if i were to get a job at DE i would PUSH for token systems.

One for Cedus

One for Primes. (They already have the ground work for it! They just need to swap around some features and add some prices)

any other places i'm forgetting? Don't want to many, it would get confusing.

OH right Sorties.

8 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Don't you think, DE, that those dudes know JUST A LITTLE BIT about player retention versus player burnout?

You think it retains people, but it doesn't. The ability to work toward goals that you KNOW, with certainty, CAN BE achieved retains people.

Eventually, people get tired of gambling their time away. Player numbers will rocket up...and by November 1, they'll drop off again, as players realize they cannot actually achieve anything in this game, that it's all just a dice toss.

This is kinda dark, but its kinda really true. Its a dice toss that takes 20+ minute. I've burned out of warframe several times because of exactly what you described. I'm not still playing warframe so i can grind away forever doing bounty after bounty after bounty, Sortie after Sortie after Sortie, i keep playing because warframe is fun, The RNG grind doesn't keep me around, it literally drives me away. Collecting raw resources in the Plains, especially given the number of ways to do it, thats ok, spending 20+ minutes of my time to roll a nine sided die, that's not ok.

[MobyTheDuck]

DE: Transmuting Rivens is bad because adds another layer of RNG

Same DE: Lets reuse out terrible Void Key-era rewards system, with good time/effort rewards sharing the same drop table with 1k credits, 50 endo, 1 ayatan star and common mods. Also the player shouldnt get more than 100 standing per bounty.

[djtotato]

i have done the first 3 bounties 3 times each among a few hours and got no gara or any uncommon/rare.

poe is just like normal mission mixed together but you spending more time travelling from point a to point b. you get 3 more rewards from running 4 missions by the time you finished 1 bounty with a single worse reward...

and you cannot even try again to get what you want until later.

this is crazy

Edited October 13, 2017 by djtotato

[BlackCoMerc]

1 minute ago, TennoHack said:

It sure as hell feels that way, and i almost want to say its true, if i were to get a job at DE i would PUSH for token systems.

One for Cedus

One for Primes. (They already have the ground work for it! They just need to swap around some features and add some prices)

any other places i'm forgetting? Don't want to many, it would get confusing.

OH right Sorties.

This is kinda dark, but its kinda really true. Its a dice toss that takes 20+ minute. I've burned out of warframe several times because of exactly what you described. I'm not still playing warframe so i can grind away forever doing bounty after bounty after bounty, Sortie after Sortie after Sortie, i keep playing because warframe is fun, The RNG grind doesn't keep me around, it literally drives me away. Collecting raw resources in the Plains, especially given the number of ways to do it, thats ok, spending 20+ minutes of my time to roll a nine sided die, that's not ok.

This mirrors how I feel.

I love the game play. But as soon as I start thinking about the rewards system, it reminds me I'm just gambling. It's depressing and I quit for a time.

Those "times" are getting progressively longer, and more common. 

I want to work toward goals. Craft a thousand melee weapons just to try them all. I want to KNOW I will unlock new mods.

Because one day soon, I'll look up from space ninja game play, realize I'm grinding for slot machine pulls...and walk away again. And this time, there isn't any big, open world update looking to pull me back in.

[Illithar]

18 minutes ago, djtotato said:

i have done the first 3 bounties 3 times each among a few hours and got no gara or any uncommon/rare.

poe is just like normal mission mixed together but you spending more time travelling from point a to point b. you get 3 more rewards from running 4 missions by the time you finished 1 bounty with a single worse reward...

and you cannot even try again to get what you want until later.

this is crazy

I was really interested in the custom weapons system, but it has a huge barrier to entry in form of standing and resources that are needed. Fish scales! For a sword!

Right now I am only running the Bounties to try and get the parts for Gara. Everything else is just too much right now. Unless something changes I wont be messing around to much with PoE after I have Gara.

Edited October 13, 2017 by Illithar
Clarification

[Xarteros]

We've been after Token systems for sorties, raids, and basically everything. DE just never seem to hear us

 

[Gravitus123]

They seriously need to stop tying rng to every single damn reward.Rng only makes people angry when its overused.RNG only works in small doses stop being lazy and either give us guaranteed rewards or a token system

The grind in this update is insane its worse then anything we have ever seen in warframe

Edited October 13, 2017 by Gravitus123

[Twelvelight]

SO basicly u want everything after 1 week?? Nothing is allowed to be rare in a game?

[Vesperos]

An possible solution to "counter" the rng system could be an guranteed reward system after x bounties.

For example after completing 5 high rank bounties the players can choose from an "exclusive" loot table what they want (like Gara bps to throw something in the room).

Also the easier the bounty tier the more bounties are required for the guranteed "choose your reward bonus.

Sorties are already enough rng with an even greater loot table that is only once per day available. Sure PoE might have more chances (reset every 150 mins(?)) but it still is to much rng involved in it considering the time and travel a bounty needs to complete it by runnig from point a to b to c and then run back from nowhere + hope to run in the right direction cus of no indicator where the gate is.

I would even go so far to say that PoE bounties take longer then sorties in comparision to complete for the reward.

[NebbyOtt]

This needs to be a thing!

This can't not be a thing!

[LordLokai]

yea, give us a token system already, nobody can even get Gara because her BP NEVER drops... nothing good drops its all common crap everyone has already... i have played NON-STOP since this thing dropped having almost no bugs at all... and i haven't seen ANY of the new drops at all, not one... hell i was shocked when a lens dropped like what? i didn't get another vitality or endo? oh man this is like sorties amped up to 11... and nobody liked seeing Endo drop for the 11 billionth time BUT i hate to say this i dont see it changing...  DE seems hell bent on RNG hell for this game.

[NebbyOtt]

1 minute ago, LordLokai said:

-everything he said-

Well, give them a chance, we only just let them know we want a Token system in Warframe...

...several years ago...

Edited October 14, 2017 by TennoHack

[Marvelous_A]

We suggested this sh1t back when sorties just came out, and now we have PoE yet the fu@king token system is still not a thing.

[Xriborg]

I can understand using RNG for a lot of the prime stuff and other drops since it earns DE money, but most of the stuff on the plains can't be bought with plat. This would be more of a QoL thing than a moneymaking thing so...why not?

It's very discouraging to get a handful of credits after doing all those mini missions.

[Rakiss]

There is a token system.

Syndicate standing is just that.

The problem is that it's not used for the things people want it to be used for.

Have a new NPC in Cetus sell a cycling inventory of bounty rewards for syndicate reputation.

Keep the RNG rewards in bounties as well because it's more satisfying to get a random reward than a number.

Increase syndicate standing gain (treat any day plains action as if you were wearing an Ostron sigil and any night plains action as if you were wearing a Quills sigil?)

[Teridax68]

2 minutes ago, Rakiss said:

There is a token system.

Syndicate standing is just that.

The problem is that it's not used for the things people want it to be used for.

This is true, and I think this could be at least a step forward in eliminating the worst cases of RNG-based grinding. Currently, some rewards are just purely dependent on random chance, so if you don't get them you've essentially just wasted however much time you spent trying to do so: using standing as a less inefficient, but reliable way of acquiring loot, e.g. mods, parts, blueprints, etc., could help with that upper bound of grinding where you can be sure to get your reward eventually, even if you do happen to be spectacularly unlucky otherwise. I still think the diluted bounty reward table is a horrible idea that should be changed, but this could at least potentially achieve a compromise between extending play time and giving players what they've worked for.

[Rakiss]

2 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

This is true, and I think this could be at least a step forward in eliminating the worst cases of RNG-based grinding. Currently, some rewards are just purely dependent on random chance, so if you don't get them you've essentially just wasted however much time you spent trying to do so: using standing as a less inefficient, but reliable way of acquiring loot, e.g. mods, parts, blueprints, etc., could help with that upper bound of grinding where you can be sure to get your reward eventually, even if you do happen to be spectacularly unlucky otherwise. I still think the diluted bounty reward table is a horrible idea that should be changed, but this could at least potentially achieve a compromise between extending play time and giving players what they've worked for.

The reward table itself is a whole other mess.

 

Personally I'd have each stage be a rotation.

A-Rotations (stages 1 and 2) would reward the common drops from the current tables.
B-Rotations (stage 3 or stage 3 and 4 in 5-stage bounties) would reward uncommon drops.
C-Rotations (the final stage) would reward uncommon or rare drops.

These would appear as unidentified rewards that would be obtained upon finishing the bounty (as with caches in sabotage missions). While it would be more engaging to see rewards appear instantly, it would allow for significant cheesing of drops or bounties only allowing one attempt.

[double1]

Yeah I hate the rng on the plains I haven't gotten a single good thing from the bountys just creds, stars and useless mods