Direction of warframe

[Defmoon]

Plains of eidoden if it was a stand alone game it would not do very good. DE doesn't fully get why warframe has so many players. The list is short and simple but complex.

1. Generated maps, sounds stupid and should be at the bottom of the list. BUT the same map layout would get old very very fast like diablo 3's map. Keeps the feeling I haven't been here before providing a sense of exploration.

2. Power, finding the best frame and weapon with the best mod's to use them with to make the most powerful setup to last the longest is the biggest goal of warframe. Experimenting, researching and setting a goal is the biggest backbone of warframe.

3. Mod's, modding is a big part of it aswell. Getting and maxing a mod is hard. Which falls inline with goals. But what DE fails to understand is a mod with low attributes maxed give's no motivation. A mod that gives 440% increase gives a end game goal. along with having to forma a frame or weapon to fit it properly. BUT a mod that gives only a 20% increase gives NO motivation or end game goal. You gonna spend 30 hours to max out a 15% increase mod?

4. Looking cool and having cool things and people seeing you looking cool.

Plains of eidolon has none of these. Could be a very big step for DE if their goal is set on being 10x bigger in the scope of things. But if they are not willing to compete with real open world games like fallout, skyrim and star citizen then it is only a step in the wrong direction. People will complain about this post, but in the end the numbers will show.

 

PS, archwing was one of the biggest selling points of plains of eidolon And you made it useless.

[Kainosh]

1.  You still have your beloved generated maps. They are 90% of Warframe. 

2. Yes it is...and PoE provided some new weapons and mods to work with. I dont see any issue there.

3. There were MANY useless mods even before PoE.  Like Rifle aptitude or Lightning rod.  Dunno why they exist tbh...

4. ???

[Lunaina]

Grind isn't inherently a bad thing, grinding can be relaxing. People enjoy diablo games, in spite of playing the same content over and over again because it's not incredibly difficult, and it doesn't require 8 people to coordinate. Warframe used to be just like diablo, run your maps, eventually get your drop, collect the things you want and make builds around it. Then things started to go south, I remember back when nova was nerfed into the dirt was the first time I really noticed it. This dev team seems to be all over the place when it comes to decision making. Nerfing things just because they see a youtube video about how powerful it is... I mean really...

Content that explicitly excludes solo players, content that excludes new players, content that excludes people who aren't geared into the meta. New stuff that isn't tested properly, refusing to play their own game without cheats enabled.

Posts in various places with collated data offered freely to the team running the game for the betterment of the product being ignored for... reasons?

More than just the game is a mess right now.

[DSpite]

To the OP:

I think you are ignoring one of the foundational ideas of Warframe. Nothing in this game is set in stone. Things change, evolve, get upgraded, and even scrapped and reworked sometimes (ie, Focus).

You basically stated "this first implementation of PoE is not to my liking" when the rest of us know that if we stepped away for six months and then came back, PoE might be larger, have more missions then you can waive a stick at, and even look or play totally different.

PoE right now is just "something else we can do other then missions in tile sets". I for one look forward to what DE will do to it next, but there is little point saying "PoE is bad" because it's not a case of "here it is, like it or leave it", it's a case of "here is what we have so far, please offer feedback so we can make it better".

[Defmoon]

15 hours ago, Kainosh said:

1.  You still have your beloved generated maps. They are 90% of Warframe. 

2. Yes it is...and PoE provided some new weapons and mods to work with. I dont see any issue there.

3. There were MANY useless mods even before PoE.  Like Rifle aptitude or Lightning rod.  Dunno why they exist tbh...

4. ???

About 3. I know DE really really regrets making 440% boost mods. Thats why you see in archwing things likey fury, only a 10% melee attack speed. 1. I know the maps are there but if their concentration is going to be PoE and not developing other parts are what I am worried about. I love warframe, I have been playing it for 4 years starting on the PS4. Thats why I made this post, I'm not bashing on PoE. Its really awesome that DE would go for something like this, but it doesn't stack up any where near other open world games is all I am pointing out. There's no mystery to PoE, there's like 5 things you can do in it. Do 1 of 5 missions, collect resourses, mine, fish and kill the Eidolon Teralyst. Once players get to know PoE like the back of their hand they are gonna loose interest.

[Defmoon]

I think if DE can incorporate 1. and 2. this would be the best direction for PoE.

[Defmoon]

On 10/19/2017 at 4:28 AM, DSpite said:

To the OP:

I think you are ignoring one of the foundational ideas of Warframe. Nothing in this game is set in stone. Things change, evolve, get upgraded, and even scrapped and reworked sometimes (ie, Focus).

You basically stated "this first implementation of PoE is not to my liking" when the rest of us know that if we stepped away for six months and then came back, PoE might be larger, have more missions then you can waive a stick at, and even look or play totally different.

PoE right now is just "something else we can do other then missions in tile sets". I for one look forward to what DE will do to it next, but there is little point saying "PoE is bad" because it's not a case of "here it is, like it or leave it", it's a case of "here is what we have so far, please offer feedback so we can make it better".

Basically your saying DE is gonna fix it like I said. If it is not their main focus then its a step in the wrong direction. "I for one look forward to what DE will do to it next". Iike it or leave it is no where near what I was saying. Iv been here 4 years and dont want a game more to succeed. Warframe is at the top of my 140+ games I have played in my life. Being nice to make someone feel better gets that person no where life. Being honest and letting someone know where they are will only help no matter hard the truth is.

[Defmoon]

Final bump, then I'll let it die out since I wrote it on the weekend.

[(PSN)BlitzKeir]

On ‎10‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 6:14 AM, Lunaina said:

Posts in various places with collated data offered freely to the team running the game for the betterment of the product being ignored for... reasons?

Can you elaborate on this? I'm curious.

[TaylorsContraction]

The thing is poe is a starting area. De is considering adding more such maps on other planets if poe is successful. 

Whatdoes it mean for PoE to be successful? I don't really know, but probably players accessing and spending time on the plains. Higher level or more challenging open world maps on later planets with more rewarding loot is a real possibility.

Take the PoE mod sets for example. Useless to a vet, but pretty good for a new player 10 hours into the game.

[MealeaYing]

I dont agree at all but I am also new.

I like the game as I started but almost instantly began to feel hemmed in and constrained to what I think you guys refer to as grind. The planes came out when I had had the game for a few weeks and did so just in time, I love it.

The planes to me are a place to run amok, have fun and get my butt kicked. Its beautiful and I want it to be bigger. I want there to be places like Gaia, and I want the other planets moons and so on to have stuff like this too, each with its one set of stuff. To me, now, going into space is optional, I get a lot more stuff quicker, but its not the same, its like there are piles of stuff laying about that i didn't earn. In the planes you have to go get it, get it and take it from the graneer who definitely dont want you to have it. I have said this in other threads complaining that a place you dont have to go is bothersome in some way. If you dont like it, dont go, its that simple. The whole rest of the game is still there, you have nothing to gripe about I dont think.

On 10/19/2017 at 1:00 AM, Defmoon said:

PS, archwing was one of the biggest selling points of plains of eidolon And you made it useless.

Selling points? No it wasn't, I dont have access to that yet, I'm still level four, I need to be level five before I can even start making that work and you know what? I dont care, it will happen when I have earned it. The selling point was, and still is freedom, and its got that by the ton. The most recent hotfix made it so you can bail out of squads if you want to keep running amok like I often do, now I have no problems other than picking fights I cant win and that is my own doing and I enjoy the hell out of it. I have tried them, people can give them to others and it was pretty friggin great. I have some work to do to get them and its going to be a blast.

Last point: Do you actually think this is all they are going to do? That they just plopped this in and it will be the last thing they add to this game? Again I'm new so I could be wrong, but I think that if that's what you believe then you are mistaken, this game has a gigantic future, I think its going to be amazing. I think its going to go interstellar, then intergalactic, with huge worlds like PoE to go nuts in. Possibly you will have new places to gripe about, I should be so lucky!

[(PSN)BlitzKeir]

17 minutes ago, MealeaYing said:

-snip-

Right now, you're in the golden era. I've always said Warframe is at its best in the first 60 hrs. You have a lot to work for, but it feels within reach. Even if you can't get what you're after, you still make progress in some area. And things acquiring most resources will become easier as you progress. The mechanics are still being laid out and everything feels fresh. Enemies under lv10 die in one hit, but most enemies take a little effort to put down, so you can still be challenged by things that aren't outright one-shots.

For someone who's maxed all the mods they'll ever use and obtained every Prime item? Who has 3-6 Forma and working builds for every frame and hundreds of weapons? Who can explain in detail how all status types work and offer ideal setups to amp them without deferring to meta? There's nothing left to learn, and no pre-existing way to get stronger. So the game becomes about acquisition. And when acquisition only outputs reward every 20-50 hrs, you're just grinding against a wall for increasingly miniscule gains that don't accumulate. Which is where the term originates.

Sure, you can avoid "loot caves" or whatever analogy, but by that point nothing can challenge you unless it outright one-shots you. And everything can, in late-game content. The core combat falls apart because numbers are too inflated on both players' and enemies' sides. Basic gameplay stops being fun.

These are problems DE has been wrestling with for a couple years now. It's coming to head now that there are several persistent mutually-exclusive grinds (no Prime items or ducats in PoE). With the introduction of PoE, there are new potential solutions for these problems. Which is good. But solutions are needed.

While it is useful to see things from the perspective of a new player, it's generally not beneficial to you or others to be reductionist about their experience. It's like my experience with Shadow of War. In chapters 1-3, I was having a great time. The team did an amazing job expanding the Nemesis system. I was skeptical as to whether they could really outdo the first game - studios have been trying to create something like that for a decade, after all - but they knocked it outta the park. I saw people complaining about "grind" in chapter 4 and figured, "Maybe they played it too mechanically and stopped having fun." From the mechanics as I'd experienced so far, I couldn't see how the game would change like they vaguely described. But once I got to chapter 4, I understood their complaints. It's not "grindy". You're still fighting and dominating captains, except on a larger scale, and that part is still enjoyable. But there are several faults in interacting mechanics that cause the game to collapse in on itself, and the amount of work required just to progress the story, and how much you can lose in ways that feel so arbitrary, strips much of the fun out. It's not quite as bad as people say, but it's still pretty serious. The game has no future unless things change.

But again, WF isn't that bad off. There's easily a couple hundred hours of fun to be had. Things don't start to break down until the idea of 3 Forma in one weapon doesn't intimidate you.

[Lost_Cartographer]

On 10/19/2017 at 7:14 AM, Lunaina said:

Grind isn't inherently a bad thing, grinding can be relaxing. People enjoy diablo games, in spite of playing the same content over and over again because it's not incredibly difficult, and it doesn't require 8 people to coordinate. Warframe used to be just like diablo, run your maps, eventually get your drop, collect the things you want and make builds around it. Then things started to go south, I remember back when nova was nerfed into the dirt was the first time I really noticed it. This dev team seems to be all over the place when it comes to decision making. Nerfing things just because they see a youtube video about how powerful it is... I mean really...

Content that explicitly excludes solo players, content that excludes new players, content that excludes people who aren't geared into the meta. New stuff that isn't tested properly, refusing to play their own game without cheats enabled.

Posts in various places with collated data offered freely to the team running the game for the betterment of the product being ignored for... reasons?

More than just the game is a mess right now.

Warframe is, unfortunately, a game developed by a studio with ADHD that doesn't really know how to design well, just cool.

This is actually encouraged or at least allowed by a community that has a tendency to bark and bark and bark about things that frustrate them until they're pointed to a way around the frustrations, then proceed to ignore the problem and belittle those that continue to bring up the issue with sometimes reasonable but more often varying degrees of subtly elitist (or inane) counter-arguments for why things should just stay the same.

The player base is kind of enabling this messy developing process.  "If it's not a problem for me, then it's not really a problem.  Git gud."

Edited October 25, 2017 by Littleman88

[Defmoon]

2 hours ago, MealeaYing said:

I dont agree at all but I am also new.

I like the game as I started but almost instantly began to feel hemmed in and constrained to what I think you guys refer to as grind. The planes came out when I had had the game for a few weeks and did so just in time, I love it.

The planes to me are a place to run amok, have fun and get my butt kicked. Its beautiful and I want it to be bigger. I want there to be places like Gaia, and I want the other planets moons and so on to have stuff like this too, each with its one set of stuff. To me, now, going into space is optional, I get a lot more stuff quicker, but its not the same, its like there are piles of stuff laying about that i didn't earn. In the planes you have to go get it, get it and take it from the graneer who definitely dont want you to have it. I have said this in other threads complaining that a place you dont have to go is bothersome in some way. If you dont like it, dont go, its that simple. The whole rest of the game is still there, you have nothing to gripe about I dont think.

Selling points? No it wasn't, I dont have access to that yet, I'm still level four, I need to be level five before I can even start making that work and you know what? I dont care, it will happen when I have earned it. The selling point was, and still is freedom, and its got that by the ton. The most recent hotfix made it so you can bail out of squads if you want to keep running amok like I often do, now I have no problems other than picking fights I cant win and that is my own doing and I enjoy the hell out of it. I have tried them, people can give them to others and it was pretty friggin great. I have some work to do to get them and its going to be a blast.

Last point: Do you actually think this is all they are going to do? That they just plopped this in and it will be the last thing they add to this game? Again I'm new so I could be wrong, but I think that if that's what you believe then you are mistaken, this game has a gigantic future, I think its going to be amazing. I think its going to go interstellar, then intergalactic, with huge worlds like PoE to go nuts in. Possibly you will have new places to gripe about, I should be so lucky!

Coming from a guy that has 40 hours of game play compared to a guy that has 1400 hours of game play. That much of a difference our views will be different no matter the game. I would recommend dont comment on posts like this till you have more hours of game play please.

[Defmoon]

1 hour ago, (PS4)BlitzKeir said:

I'd say I kinda lost interest and took a break about 600-700 hours. Came back and now at 1400, I don't play like I used to and your right he is in the golden age of warframe hours. I didn't realize those starting hours are amazing till I was in my brothers account showing him how to play and kinda missed being a noob underdog.

 

[Defmoon]

3 hours ago, TaylorsContraction said:

The thing is poe is a starting area. De is considering adding more such maps on other planets if poe is successful. 

Whatdoes it mean for PoE to be successful? I don't really know, but probably players accessing and spending time on the plains. Higher level or more challenging open world maps on later planets with more rewarding loot is a real possibility.

Take the PoE mod sets for example. Useless to a vet, but pretty good for a new player 10 hours into the game.

Thats my hope, I said that in the few other comments before. But the really need to find a way to keep things interesting and random. When players get to know something through and through and no randomness is PoE's biggest down fall.

[Lisztomaniac]

while i despise the OP playstyle (im aware this is the general mentality of the warframe player, big numbers, big crits).

the OP is right because by having no endgame the only endgame is to get stronger so i understand why most people only care about that (i rather try to find what kind of combination work and what kind of diferent builds i can try rather than how strong i can get).

however i dont support the OP in assuming this is how the game should be, i think fighting lvl 200 enemies doesnt seem more enticing than fightig lvl 50's, and here is well PoE really droped the ball i thinnk, night time was the oportunity to give people like the OP something to aim for, a place so hard that only people with a complete grasp of understanding and descent builds could make it through, i dont think the game should be as its always been with pointless farming and nowhere to aim for, but i think PoE direction is even worse, nigthtime was the endgame i was expecting and its not even harder than a 1st stage sortie.

[Defmoon]

2 hours ago, Lisztomaniac said:

while i despise the OP playstyle (im aware this is the general mentality of the warframe player, big numbers, big crits).

the OP is right because by having no endgame the only endgame is to get stronger so i understand why most people only care about that (i rather try to find what kind of combination work and what kind of diferent builds i can try rather than how strong i can get).

however i dont support the OP in assuming this is how the game should be, i think fighting lvl 200 enemies doesnt seem more enticing than fightig lvl 50's, and here is well PoE really droped the ball i thinnk, night time was the oportunity to give people like the OP something to aim for, a place so hard that only people with a complete grasp of understanding and descent builds could make it through, i dont think the game should be as its always been with pointless farming and nowhere to aim for, but i think PoE direction is even worse, nigthtime was the endgame i was expecting and its not even harder than a 1st stage sortie.

Being OP has been my end game in every game I have played, not sure what else can be considered end game other then some of the armored core games I have played. Where you can't just fit the biggest gun without sacrificing mobility causing you to die. Where every pro has a con and every con has a pro, finding the right balance to get the best performance for a single task. If you can think of something else can you share it.

 

[Lisztomaniac]

26 minutes ago, Defmoon said:

Being OP has been my end game in every game I have played, not sure what else can be considered end game other then some of the armored core games I have played. Where you can't just fit the biggest gun without sacrificing mobility causing you to die. Where every pro has a con and every con has a pro, finding the right balance to get the best performance for a single task. If you can think of something else can you share it.

 

well i just dont see a point in playing the same game with diferent numbers, farm and then do the same thing with diferent numbers, thats exactly what PoE is too, its only a diferent playstyle that you dont like, but its the same principle, farm to get stronger, get stronger to farm more, this is diferent from games like say WoW (not comparing them its just an example) where you want to get stronger and farm to get stronger but at the end you have a goal in mind "become OP so you can finally face that content you werent able to face before", and i ask what content do lvl 200 enemies offer over lvl 100 enemies? (i heard this lvl its what DE considers as endgame when balancing) im not saying you shouldnt play the game like that, im just saying there is really no purpose to farm just to get better at farming and being able to say "hey i killed lvl 200 enemies for 40 minutes in survival", to me thats bland "i killed the teralyst" would have sound better but the teralyst is a joke, my point is, its ok if you want your endgame to revolve around how much damage you can put ouf, but i wish they had implemented something that gave all your damage a meaning, and i feel like the teralyst is a wasted chance at that (the whole night time really).

[Defmoon]

13 hours ago, Lisztomaniac said:

 

My example of end game is a little different then get the biggest gun compared to finding the right balance for a task. Its still being OP but requires more skill and planning. But I asked what do you think a good end game design would be?

I understand your frustration and I agree with it but you should give your thoughts on how to do it differently.

 

Edited October 26, 2017 by Defmoon

[Lisztomaniac]

2 minutes ago, Defmoon said:

My example of end game is a little different then get the biggest gun compared to finding the right balance for a task. Its still being OP but requires more skill and planning. But I asked what do you think a good end game design would be?

I understand your frustration and I agree with it but you should give your thoughts on how to do it differently.

 

oh ok, well i think the night time was the perfect chance wasted, starting with the teralyst he could have required cooperation between, operator-warframe-archwing, having weak points over his head and such.

 the dificulty should not be in him being a health sponge swarmed by rocket launcher minions, it should be in aiming and dodging, weakpoints, maybe even climbing on him (what happened to all the parkour we have), more attacks that require you to be aware instead of just beefy (i love the starfall ability because its chaotic but avoidable), the teralyst should be bigger in my opinion to reflect his end game boss status there should be about 4 or 5 enemies the size of the current teralyst with at least 2 varitions on playstyle that worked as sub-bosses, and instead of just bombalyst roaming the plains (which in my opinion offer no challenge at all and id rather face grineer by day) there should also be conculysts and battalysts, and i dont mean one here and one 200m away, i mean at least 3 battalyst/conculyst  on top your squap most of the time during the night, night should be so hard that new players should get absolutely destroyed the second they set foot in there.

for obvious reasons the dependancy eidolon hunting has in itself would have to be fixed first.

 it wouldnt hurt to add things to the map like rare mods on heavily guarded grineer vaults or an ayatan sculpture hidden in the map every 24h, this would make people want to play the new map, new players by day, endgame by night.

i also think the map should be 8 player available i mean, isnt that already possible on raids? (not much of a raid person myself)

 

[ikkabotz]

On 10/19/2017 at 4:28 AM, DSpite said:

To the OP:

I think you are ignoring one of the foundational ideas of Warframe. Nothing in this game is set in stone. Things change, evolve, get upgraded, and even scrapped and reworked sometimes (ie, Focus).

You basically stated "this first implementation of PoE is not to my liking" when the rest of us know that if we stepped away for six months and then came back, PoE might be larger, have more missions then you can waive a stick at, and even look or play totally different.

PoE right now is just "something else we can do other then missions in tile sets". I for one look forward to what DE will do to it next, but there is little point saying "PoE is bad" because it's not a case of "here it is, like it or leave it", it's a case of "here is what we have so far, please offer feedback so we can make it better".

Except how often are things really returned to after implementing them?

There's bugguy companions, headless warframe, connection to host failures, a focus system from WW dark side/light side not in use. .deluxe skins unreleased, no alternate skins on old frames. .let's see what else. ."Many many Riven reworks" (so far zero). .there's more, someone help me out 

[Defmoon]

On 10/26/2017 at 2:13 PM, komoriblues said:

Except how often are things really returned to after implementing them?

There's bugguy companions, headless warframe, connection to host failures, a focus system from WW dark side/light side not in use. .deluxe skins unreleased, no alternate skins on old frames. .let's see what else. ."Many many Riven reworks" (so far zero). .there's more, someone help me out 

Archwing needs a good polish, more end game missions other then nightmare alerts and sorties, more to the dojo would be nice.

[Defmoon]

On 10/25/2017 at 4:12 PM, (PS4)BlitzKeir said:

Right now, you're in the golden era. I've always said Warframe is at its best in the first 60 hrs. You have a lot to work for, but it feels within reach. Even if you can't get what you're after, you still make progress in some area. And things acquiring most resources will become easier as you progress. The mechanics are still being laid out and everything feels fresh. Enemies under lv10 die in one hit, but most enemies take a little effort to put down, so you can still be challenged by things that aren't outright one-shots.

For someone who's maxed all the mods they'll ever use and obtained every Prime item? Who has 3-6 Forma and working builds for every frame and hundreds of weapons? Who can explain in detail how all status types work and offer ideal setups to amp them without deferring to meta? There's nothing left to learn, and no pre-existing way to get stronger. So the game becomes about acquisition. And when acquisition only outputs reward every 20-50 hrs, you're just grinding against a wall for increasingly miniscule gains that don't accumulate. Which is where the term originates.

Sure, you can avoid "loot caves" or whatever analogy, but by that point nothing can challenge you unless it outright one-shots you. And everything can, in late-game content. The core combat falls apart because numbers are too inflated on both players' and enemies' sides. Basic gameplay stops being fun.

These are problems DE has been wrestling with for a couple years now. It's coming to head now that there are several persistent mutually-exclusive grinds (no Prime items or ducats in PoE). With the introduction of PoE, there are new potential solutions for these problems. Which is good. But solutions are needed.

While it is useful to see things from the perspective of a new player, it's generally not beneficial to you or others to be reductionist about their experience. It's like my experience with Shadow of War. In chapters 1-3, I was having a great time. The team did an amazing job expanding the Nemesis system. I was skeptical as to whether they could really outdo the first game - studios have been trying to create something like that for a decade, after all - but they knocked it outta the park. I saw people complaining about "grind" in chapter 4 and figured, "Maybe they played it too mechanically and stopped having fun." From the mechanics as I'd experienced so far, I couldn't see how the game would change like they vaguely described. But once I got to chapter 4, I understood their complaints. It's not "grindy". You're still fighting and dominating captains, except on a larger scale, and that part is still enjoyable. But there are several faults in interacting mechanics that cause the game to collapse in on itself, and the amount of work required just to progress the story, and how much you can lose in ways that feel so arbitrary, strips much of the fun out. It's not quite as bad as people say, but it's still pretty serious. The game has no future unless things change.

But again, WF isn't that bad off. There's easily a couple hundred hours of fun to be had. Things don't start to break down until the idea of 3 Forma in one weapon doesn't intimidate you.

I'd say I kinda lost interest and took a break about 600-700 hours. Came back and now at 1400, I don't play like I used to and your right he is in the golden age of warframe hours. I didn't realize those starting hours are amazing till I was in my brothers account showing him how to play and kinda missed being a noob underdog.

 

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

On 10/25/2017 at 5:52 PM, TaylorsContraction said:

The thing is poe is a starting area. De is considering adding more such maps on other planets if poe is successful. 

Whatdoes it mean for PoE to be successful? I don't really know, but probably players accessing and spending time on the plains. Higher level or more challenging open world maps on later planets with more rewarding loot is a real possibility.

Take the PoE mod sets for example. Useless to a vet, but pretty good for a new player 10 hours into the game.

As a player early on in a new account (I launched a new PC account so I could play with a couple friends who were interested), I only set foot in the Plains in order to move past it to the next Earth node. There's a lot more and better time to be spent working your way around the Starchart than dorking around Brownsville looking for fish, as far as I can tell.

That's one of my problems with the update -- it's not clear to me who it's meant for. New players are better off circling the starchart, but things like those mods aren't all that useful for vets. Newer players won't benefit from (and may be spoiled by) the Eidolon/Operator stuff, but as a veteran Xbox player I don't have anything on PoE I want, so it's not really good for me either (I recognize of course that I'm on the "I Don't Do Operator Stuff" side of the argument, so I'm not representing everyone).

Newer players are taught that you gain loot by missions, but PoE has loot that is specifically gained by activities that are strictly about gaining that specific loot (e.g. fishing/mining), rather than your loot stocks building organically via the normal Warframe gameplay of running, jumping, shooting, and looking good.

Edited December 5, 2017 by (XB1)CannyJack