Focus 2.0: Focus Exp = Not Fun

[Ceryk]

10 minutes ago, Nation_X said:

Brozime also has a vid coming out, think he mentioned it will be out soonish. 

Would you mind linking when and if that video comes out?

[Rinteru]

Well, what i meant is that DE has to make some decision about focus if they leave it as it is nowy there will be again almost none using, if they would make this an end game thing again they would have to destroy everything they've done up till now. I hope thou it stays at core gameplay level and new end game system will be implemented to get attention of vets. Also we can kill  eidolon with them, also vombalysts. So I decided to go and look how would tenno first rank quill amp perform vs sentients on lua. And it was quite suprising result. I took chroma with vectis buffed myself to 100% additional dmg, and i shot sentient 6/7 times. Well guess what operator did 5 shots to kill one from pencha. So i suppouse operators will become sentient killers in the future. 

[Ceryk]

10 hours ago, Rinteru said:

Well, what i meant is that DE has to make some decision about focus if they leave it as it is nowy there will be again almost none using, if they would make this an end game thing again they would have to destroy everything they've done up till now. I hope thou it stays at core gameplay level and new end game system will be implemented to get attention of vets. Also we can kill  eidolon with them, also vombalysts. So I decided to go and look how would tenno first rank quill amp perform vs sentients on lua. And it was quite suprising result. I took chroma with vectis buffed myself to 100% additional dmg, and i shot sentient 6/7 times. Well guess what operator did 5 shots to kill one from pencha. So i suppouse operators will become sentient killers in the future. 

I would not be surprised if we had more content that involved more Sentients coming down the line. They've been wanting to put them in the game for awhile in more places. And making Operators adept at dealing with them gives them the opportunity to do just that. But it will end up being frustrating if we can't actually do a reasonable amount of work on our Operators to be efficient at that content. And right now our big issue is that even just trying to participate in Focus 2.0 is unreasonable.

Edited October 25, 2017 by Ceryk

[(PSN)OmegaSlayer]

The biggest problem I see is the pool.

Specifically unlocking pool with the same focus you use for nodes.

Unlock the pool with the experience/time the player gets by actually play as Operator.

Like give me one pool slot for every 30 minutes I play as Operator, that would make sense.

[Rinteru]

So i guess we've got an update https://twitter.com/rebbford/status/923181128780877824

[Kinetos]

I meant to post here but it went to the post I found this one from. 

Agree with everything. 

Quick napkin math puts daily cap at 12 hours for me, running something I currently find fun, but would stop finding fun if I had to do it every day, but I *can't* because it takes more time than a full time job and I have to do one of those already. 

Edited October 25, 2017 by Kinetos

[Xriborg]

I'm glad to see the community voicing their opinion on this. Focus should be another reward for playing the rest of the game, not another chore to grind.

[Skaleek]

Focus is an unreasonable grind for little to no power added to your character. It's the ultimate middle finger from DE. Just like convergence orbs, which was the worst thing they ever did to focus.

[Fihuren]

I'm totally agree with you !

Between the beginning of August and the 13th of October (release of PoE), I only played warframe for daily loot and sorties.
Even then, I still dig up a bit in the focus system. But now, it's over. I have dig in the focus 1.0 system : I earned the 5 schools and 4 to 7 nodes in each of them...

Spoiler

Here's the comparison between focus 1.0 and focus 2.0 for the school I've most advanced : Vazarin.
Vazarin 1.0 - at max rank : Mending tides/Mending tides mastery/New moon/Disciplined Approach/Mending Shower/protecting Ward et command word and 27 focus path

Vazarin 2.0 - at max rank : Mending Unity/Mending soul and 29 focus path.
- non completed : enduring tides and rejuvenating tides, still blocked at the way bound...
I feel a little bit hurt by looking at that that way

[Ceryk]

4 hours ago, Rinteru said:

So i guess we've got an update https://twitter.com/rebbford/status/923181128780877824

Nice to at least know they are working on a solution. Thanks for linking that, haven't had a chance to go through twitter yet.

3 hours ago, Xriah said:

I'm glad to see the community voicing their opinion on this. Focus should be another reward for playing the rest of the game, not another chore to grind.

Yeah, especially now that the system is changed to something less end game oriented than the previous system. And really, we have things we need to do in the game already. I am looking for Cyclone Kraken and getting Kuva when I'm not doing something on the Plains. I can at least have some fun with those activities and mix them up to prevent monotony from setting in. Do a few runs looking for the stance, then go run a couple of Kuva missions which have built in variety. And instead of getting a reasonable amount of Focus for those activities, I'm getting bupkiss.

[TaylorsContraction]

Preaching to the quire brother. I hope DE reconsiders the current insane costs.

[UltraLYT]

Maybe they are running out of ideas for designing new exciting warframes, so they started to shift the focus to a kidframe.   

But I don't believe people came here mainly to play a kidframe (the star under Focus 2.0), I spent so many formas on my warframes and the weapons, I for one do not have interest to play a kidframe called operator.

[Rinteru]

53 minutes ago, modalmojo said:

Maybe they are running out of ideas for designing new exciting warframes, so they started to shift the focus to a kidframe.   

But I don't believe people came here mainly to play a kidframe (the star under Focus 2.0), I spent so many formas on my warframes and the weapons, I for one do not have interest to play a kidframe called operator.

There are so many people that makes this argument that its making me sick (no offfence). Look nobody came here for opertors. Nobody expected them. With what i said that operators are core gameplay mechanic right now, i didnt mean you have to use them, because you dont. You still have to use warframes, no matter what, because they does damage and other stuff. Only instance right now where you have to use operator and there is no other way is 1.eidolon and his little adds 2. Kuva. DE already said that they are not planning on making opertor this super duper powerful thing as warframes, quote "warframes always will be necessary for combat" - i belive is what Rebecca said, corect me of im wrong. I dont belive they are running out of ideas for frames. Just look at fan concept art community for warframes and you will see tons of ideas. They might have not said it directly but im sure they inspire themselves with those from time to time. And btw since i am an artist also i can assure you there is no such a thing as running out of ideas. If you still dont belive me just look at Marvel or DC comics.

[Ceryk]

19 minutes ago, Rinteru said:

There are so many people that makes this argument that its making me sick (no offfence). Look nobody came here for opertors. Nobody expected them. With what i said that operators are core gameplay mechanic right now, i didnt mean you have to use them, because you dont. You still have to use warframes, no matter what, because they does damage and other stuff. Only instance right now where you have to use operator and there is no other way is 1.eidolon and his little adds 2. Kuva. DE already said that they are not planning on making opertor this super duper powerful thing as warframes, quote "warframes always will be necessary for combat" - i belive is what Rebecca said, corect me of im wrong. I dont belive they are running out of ideas for frames. Just look at fan concept art community for warframes and you will see tons of ideas. They might have not said it directly but im sure they inspire themselves with those from time to time. And btw since i am an artist also i can assure you there is no such a thing as running out of ideas. If you still dont belive me just look at Marvel or DC comics.

Yeah, they are definitely not running out of ideas. I seem to recall them saying that have more ideas for frames than they can probably get to any time soon just from the ideas pitched by DE staff members alone. Add fan concepts in and there's too many to ever realistically make.

Not to mention, the next big update is frame oriented specifically because they feel like they've been very Operator heavy with trying to add more the story, lore, and more fleshed out mechanics into the game.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Ceryk

[UltraLYT]

1 hour ago, Rinteru said:

There are so many people that makes this argument that its making me sick (no offfence). Look nobody came here for opertors. Nobody expected them. With what i said that operators are core gameplay mechanic right now, i didnt mean you have to use them, because you dont. You still have to use warframes, no matter what, because they does damage and other stuff. Only instance right now where you have to use operator and there is no other way is 1.eidolon and his little adds 2. Kuva. DE already said that they are not planning on making opertor this super duper powerful thing as warframes, quote "warframes always will be necessary for combat" - i belive is what Rebecca said, corect me of im wrong. I dont belive they are running out of ideas for frames. Just look at fan concept art community for warframes and you will see tons of ideas. They might have not said it directly but im sure they inspire themselves with those from time to time. And btw since i am an artist also i can assure you there is no such a thing as running out of ideas. If you still dont belive me just look at Marvel or DC comics.

I said: "Maybe they are running out of ideas for designing new exciting warframes", not "Maybe they are running out of ideas for designing warframes".   This is my personal feeling toward recent warframes, this is not an argument. 

Of course there is no such thing as running out of ideas, only a fool would think otherwise, it is just a matter of good or bad ideas, and especially as an artist you should know better that creativity is not something one can mechanically produce all the time, sometimes a master of an art field could be less or even not creative in certain periods.   

[Rinteru]

1 hour ago, modalmojo said:

I said: "Maybe they are running out of ideas for designing new exciting warframes", not "Maybe they are running out of ideas for designing warframes".   This is my personal feeling toward recent warframes, this is not an argument. 

 

By the argument i meant that you came not for operator, cuz there is a ton of ppl saying that and i triggers me haha cuz nobody did. And if it comes to ideas, well creativity depends on how much somone thinks about a concept and how much he liked a subject. What i found by learning to become concept artist for video games (not yet there) that most ideas for art are not coming from luck. Most concept artists does trilliards of sketches and after contacting art director, he choses one or comes and takes a bit of every and says to try again. Thats in triple A studios especialy. And thats why you cannot run out of ideas. What i feel might be thing for DE is that before they start thinking about a system they dont recall a purpouse and consider every aspect of what it should be. For example for focus system i dont feel like they totaly considered that it will become core gameplay mechanic if they put so much stuff into it and if it does what conseqences it will bring. If it comes to warframes its like with league champions. You need a lot of thought proccess amd to do that you need a lot of people. DE has only around 200 ppl working on a game. There are programmers,  enviroment artists, 3d artists, concept artists...  And more jobs to be done. What Warframe came to be is just from those people. LoL on the other hand has mutliple concept art teams ( i belive its around 10 artists for a team ) and if they dont come up with good idea they merge those teams to get even better ideas. Thats why quality of their work is way better than warframes. Im not telling warframes ideas are bad.  However i belive that they should hire more ppl. Thats why there are tennogen skins btw. They dont have enough artists to make them. I would love to join our warframe devs to help in the future but im not as good as i would like to be to even try (working it thou haha).

Edited October 26, 2017 by Rinteru

[Slaviar]

I agree with all your points.

For me worst thing is combination of both extremely slow gain in regular missions and hard cap. Why does it matter if I cap focus in half an hour or five hours if I still can't get more than 250k per day?

I have a feeling DE will introduce more operator content in the future. If focus remains unchanged everyone who didn't grind their arse off will be at (potentially severe) disadvantage.

If DE really doesn't want to increase focus gains they should cut one zero from every ability cost and remove way capacity. It would still be grind but people wouldn't be looking at five years wait if they don't want to farm focus.

But I have a funny feeling devs will pull Hema again and will 'honor' those who maxed all trees.

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

16 minutes ago, Slaviar said:

 

But I have a funny feeling devs will pull Hema again and will 'honor' those who maxed all trees.

The longer they do nothing the more likely this stupid logic of theirs is likely.  Shouldn't have applied to the Hema, and shouldn't apply here.  Imagine if this logic applied elsewhere:

"We determine guilt or innocence with a 10% fail rate" 

 --"UM thats a bad idea"

"Yeah but we already put 500 innocent people to death so to honor them we will leave the system in place"

 

 

Edited October 26, 2017 by (XB1)Tucker D Dawg

[Kinetos]

"I didn't join Warframe for Operator". Of course I didn't. Operators weren't a thing when I started, probably not even an idea. 

"I didn't ask for Operator". I didn't do this either. Operator was a complete surprise. 

Do either of those statements automatically mean I dislike the Operator? Of course not! 

"[insert game feature here] doesn't work well and is unpopular because it doesn't work well, clearly the solution cannot possibly be making it work well, and doing so equals the devs physically assaulting us". I don't understand why this opinion is so common. It doesn't make any sense. 

[Kalvorax]

On 10/23/2017 at 1:15 AM, Fallen_Echo said:

Remove convergence orb and increase the passive gain to 10% of the affinity atleast

10% for basic lens, 25% for greater and 40% (or 50%) ediolon?

it would make it SSOOO much easier to calculate per kill how much focus Im getting.

edit to above: and I mean total in some way, meaning if you have all 4 slotted while in a party, obviously it would be around those numbers TOTAL. if you have just the warframe, it would be the same...basically no matter how many lens's you have installed....just this way you are always gaining focus at a meaningful degree.

On 10/23/2017 at 1:15 AM, Fallen_Echo said:

If desired give us a consumable what increases the passive gain to 30% for 3 minutes

I would be fine with this. I for am getting sick of HAVING to go after Convergence orbs just to get DECENT focus gains.

 

 

On 10/23/2017 at 1:15 AM, Fallen_Echo said:

Give us actual quills quests where we can earn focus and their reputation

would be awesome.

 

On 10/23/2017 at 1:15 AM, Fallen_Echo said:

Kills with operators should turn 100% of the affinity into focus

also awesome...would encourage use of the operator more.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Kalvorax

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

1 minute ago, Kinetos said:

"I didn't join Warframe for Operator". Of course I didn't. Operators weren't a thing when I started, probably not even an idea. 

"I didn't ask for Operator". I didn't do this either. Operator was a complete surprise. 

Do either of those statements automatically mean I dislike the Operator? Of course not! 

"[insert game feature here] doesn't work well and is unpopular because it doesn't work well, clearly the solution cannot possibly be making it work well, and doing so equals the devs physically assaulting us". I don't understand why this opinion is so common. It doesn't make any sense. 

Well, first this thread was about farming costs not the popularity of the operator.

That said, people like myself who don't like the operator are saying "I didn't join for the Operator" and "I didn't ask for the Operator" BECAUSE I dislike the operator.  The statements are the result of the dislike, the dislike is not the result of the statement. Of course what you are trying to apply is the inverse of what we feel.  As the logical inverse is not true in all cases, of course it doesn't make sense.

 

[Kinetos]

1 minute ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

Well, first this thread was about farming costs not the popularity of the operator.

That said, people like myself who don't like the operator are saying "I didn't join for the Operator" and "I didn't ask for the Operator" BECAUSE I dislike the operator.  The statements are the result of the dislike, the dislike is not the result of the statement. Of course what you are trying to apply is the inverse of what we feel.  As the logical inverse is not true in all cases, of course it doesn't make sense.

 

Someone else brought it up. 

I don't like Ember spam. Saying I didn't join the game for Ember spam sounds like a nonsense way of saying that. 

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

9 minutes ago, Kinetos said:

Someone else brought it up. 

I don't like Ember spam. Saying I didn't join the game for Ember spam sounds like a nonsense way of saying that. 

At least one big difference is they are not cramming Ember down your throat forcing you to play her (at most some quick boss kills to farm her, then a few missions to level her up, mastery fodder and completionist done)

They also didn't take away (insert your favorite frame here) while forcing you to use her (as they did with some nodes of focus.

There are plenty of ways to avoid ember spam - But how much kuva  can you farm kuva without an operator?  how many eidolons can you kill without an operator?  how many passive focus abilities can you activate without using your operator?

The same is true for fishing and mining. I like WF because its a fast paced shooting space ninja game.  The more they move away from that, the less i like it. What is hard for you to understand about that?

Back on topic, I don't mind the grind for most things in WF because for the most part, progression is relatively quick.  The hema and the new focus are not.  

 

Edited October 26, 2017 by (XB1)Tucker D Dawg

[Kinetos]

There's the physical assault. 

[Chaosdreamer]

I completly agree : 

I did avoid focus 1.0 as much I could , I did work it as I could for the 2.0 rework but what we need :

1- Remove the daily cap it is useless and slowing the game process , I would like to farm one full days and never do it ever

2- the convergence orb should be either a permanent bonus or a mod or Aura or Exilus mod

3- greatly improve the rate of focus earning it is not fun to do this

4- Like mod to endo something to convert into more focus (no eidolon shard)

5- maybe daily quest to get some focus like in sortie/syndicat quest maybe?