Let's talk about what we think the Operator should and shouldn't be

[RedRiot14]

TLDR: Just skip to the bold text

 

So, when TWW was released I was a bit concerned with the direction DE was taking for our Tenno. I was further worried when the Chains of Harrow quest came along and in addition to being at odds with what Red Veil was established to be, that quest also has an npc presume to call players out to appear in their "true form." I had a pretty negative reaction to that for a number of reasons due to what Warframe had already shown about what the Tenno child represents and the role they play, but I must move on to get to the point rather than elaborate. Long story short, I saw DE taking things in a direction that I wasn't okay with, but wasn't overly concerned since I gave them the benefit of the doubt for the long run. After all, they had won me over pretty hard with how they handled things in The Second Dream. So when POE hit and it seems like they are embracing and even exacerbating what I feel were mistakes, I finally felt strongly enough to speak up about it. Eventually I even wrote about it in something I actually put a good bit of time and effort into: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/870525-why-i-think-poe-is-bad-for-wf/?do=findComment&comment=9145460

But that aside I was interested and encouraged to see that I am not alone in much of my sentiment. So, I decided to take it upon myself to compile a rough list of what people think the Operator or Tenno ought to be. I am very curious to hear from all of you. I am sure I will be surprised. Hopefully the flames will be minimal, but I brought marshmallows just in case.

 

Edit: If you don't want to just boil it down into a simple list of bullet points and would rather just discuss the issue at length here, that's cool too.

THE LISTS: Below are two lists of things. One showing what people say they want Operators to be/do/have and one showing what they don't. The lists will be populated by what people submit and ordered based on what appears to be most clearly and widely expressed. The list can include things how they are currently and how you like/hate them or things that could be and how you wish or do not wish that to be the case.

 

This is going to be a rough approximation based only on those who feel like posting. That being the case, please remember that there will be nothing absolute about our findings, although I'm sure it will be interesting regaradless. Things that seem to be contentious I will just be dropping from the lists. I will try to keep this updated daily. Things that are unclear or overly long I will try to rephrase for clarity and brevity. Things that are similar or already show up negated on the opposite list I may try to combine if it makes sense to do so. If you can make a strong case that an item already shown is unrelated or inappropriate, please do so and I will consider removing it. Likewise, if you see a redundancy, feel free to point it out. If you think you can come up with a better way to word something, feel free to share and it might get adopted.

The list is going to start populated with my own opinions. I fully expect that not all of my positions will be widely held and some might get taken off. Feel free to read over the list so far for ideas and repeat anything in your post you feel strongly about, and if you strongly oppose which list it is in, simply put it in the other list in your post. Try to keep it short and limited to what most matters to you for the sake of emphasis. If something really needs a more detailed explanation to be meaningful, I will give it a pithy bold title outlining it and then elaborate in nonbold text after that. 

Things that seem to be split roughly evenly between want and do not want I will simply strike from both lists since this is supposed to be a list of things that people are mostly agreed on. I will be trying to arbitrate things by taking them in context and with as little bias as possible, and I may or may not factor in upvotes. I strongly encourage people to get creative and obscure with what they come up with, so long as it is something that genuinely matters to them.

 

If you wish to contribute please simply state what you DO WANT and/or what you DO NOT WANT for the Operator in clearly distinct categories.

 

 

DO WANT:

-Optional: pretty much the most resounding opinion in the thread so far. I suspect this view is exacerbated by the mechanic being shoved to the forefront with mandatory operator gameplay for much of POE's content. Probably wouldn't be this degree of discontent if some of the other things on the list were addressed.

-Warframe to continue being mostly about Warframes

-Tenno (operators) to feel important and powerful, and not necessarily in an overt (showing up and doing stuff themselves) way: as opposed to a clunky and irritating thing we are forced to use via hamfisted mechanics. This game sure does love invulnerability.

-Tenno should be able to do some things that Warframes can't and generally not have too much overlap

-Tenno appearing in gameplay should be infrequent to keep them from becoming too mundane: Manifesting in Tenno form too long or too often should be risky and carry some form of consequence or trade-off. Without at least some designed incentive for forbearance, Tenno mode would either have to be worse then our Warframe, in which case why would we bother with it; Good ONLY for very specific things that force us to use it, in which case that's not really fun; or Strictly better than our Warframe, in which case why bother having a Warframe?

-To have revealing what your Tenno looks like in person out of combat to be reserved for special occasions and not commonplace

-This isn't even my final form! Using powers or modes related to Tenno should be rare and feel special: to be reserved for dire occasions/when you just really want to merc' a Grineer that has wronged you.

-The true form of Tenno to remain largely a secret within the gameworld's lore. NPCs will not casually ask players to "show me your little child form please"

-Focus schools to be useful even when they aren't set as primary: note that I am including this as an example of something that they did that people actually approve of.

-Enemies that can attack or interact with our Tenno to be rare and scary: A great way to instantly distinguish the enemies the designers want us to take seriously. Instead of having our Tenno poof with almost no consequence against all enemies, maybe just have a handful of enemies/circumstances capable of stopping us with much higher consequences

-To have Tenno forms appear as vague energy forms to those who haven't completed The Second Dream: this may not seem like a big deal, but it at least would make it possible to prevent spoilers for The second dream. Could also reinforce the fluff by adding a canon reason why enemies don't know exactly what Tenno are and how they work since presumably it would represent what is normally seen.

 

DO NOT WANT:

-To wrestle with the clunky mechanic of juggling modes rapidly and often. Either make it less clunky, or have us do it less

-Huge crowds of creepy children milling around public areas

-To have our Tenno appear in the mundane flesh via the nebulous and vaguely explained physical transference: Kind of defeats the purpose of transference in the first place.

-Whack-A-Tenno: having ALL cases of our Tenno manifestation be easily dispelled by a trivial amount of damage from even the most mundane of enemies.

-Gear for our Tenno

-To grind gear for our Tenno

Edited November 16, 2017 by RedRiot14

[allibound]

"Let's talk about what the Operator should be"

 

Optional.

[RedRiot14]

23 minutes ago, allibound said:

 

Optional.

Short and to the point. I like that.

[freeformline]

I think operators should be what they were before the War Within: Remote controllers who fill an important role in the game's lore and allow for the existence of a focus system that enhances and complements the warframe combat system. As I see it, the only necessary role of the operator is to explain how a single Tenno can use multiple warframes with different body types and genders. I also like their potential for adding operator-warframe relationships in the quests, but I would really prefer that the operators have dialog and behavior that accurately reflects their long service as warriors rather than the immaturity they currently show. Character development focused on control, healing, and humanization would be more interesting to me than the maturation arc in the War Within.

Operators should not be a replacement for the warframes in combat. If they have any presence in combat, it should be as a supplement or as a background influence, preferably through focus passives and brief void energy bursts like those of Focus 1.0 actives, but shorter and more frequent. I do not think there should be anything resembling an operator mode outside of the orbiter. I liked my operator as an invalid because it gave my operator and warframe a sort of mind-and-body relationship that I enjoyed. I'm okay with the operator being up and at 'em again, but I feel that deploying the operator outside of the orbiter defeats the purpose of having the warframes in the first place.

The operator as the player's avatar in the game doesn't really work for me, either, but I think it's a fine option for players who like it. I had always identified as the warframes I played, so it didn't make any sense to shift my sense of identity into the random space child I found in the Second Dream, and the act of saving the operator in that quest ultimately made me feel protective and almost paternal toward the operator rather than seeing them as a representative of myself. If at all possible, I would prefer if future lore kept the player's identity distributed between the frames and the operator, rather than seating it entirely in the magic space child.

Edited November 3, 2017 by freeformline

[Madotsuki]

I don't know if I should even bother with this seeing as DE has shown time and time again they no longer care for player opinions, but eh.

The problem with the Tenno/Operator/Kiddo/Potato/Starchild is that it suffers from the problem of redundancy when applied as a seperate playable character like they are now. Too weak (like they were before), and they're obsolete. Too strong, and Warframes are obsolete. Right now DE seems to simply have taken the path of having some things force people to take their pet emo teen for a walk, like Kuva or Teralysts, and that really doesn't solve the problem at all, if anything it makes it worse by making those who don't like the starchild hate it even more.

The tenno was supposed to be mysterious, important, powerful but frail. Instead, we got a whiny teenager that everyone seems to know about, is worthless in most non-gimmicky situations both in gameplay and lore, is not particularly impressive, and 'frail' is represented by a light breeze being able to make them run crying home. It's not fun, it's just a bore and intrusive to regular gameplay.

IMO the tenno should have been reserved as a super saiyan form that's immensely powerful but short-lived. A desperation attack that's only used in dire situations, sort of like the new Dark Blast ability in PSO2. To put that in context, Dark Blast is an ability that requires charging up over time and kills throughout a mission, and upon using gives the player a 1 minute super mode that can only be used once per mission, during which players have a different set of abilities from usual but can deal massive damage and change the tide of combat if used well. It does not attempt to replace normal gameplay in any way, you are not forced into it, but instead it is just another skill to be utilized when the player thinks the time is right.

Operator mode should have been a similar concept. A limited, short-time desperation mode during which you are practically a physical god. It's not anything groundbreaking, it's not some new game mode and it's not some kind of required gimmick. It's just like a more elaborate warframe ability for you to use when YOU think it's the right time instead of the game demanding of it of you, that's also satisfying to use when you do it. I doubt anyone would really complain then.

[freeformline]

1 hour ago, RedRiot14 said:

DO WANT:

-To have revealing what your Tenno looks like in person out of combat to be reserved for special occasions and not commonplace

-The true form of Tenno to remain largely a secret within the gameworld's lore. NPCs will not casually ask players to "show me your little child form please"

-To have Tenno forms appear as vague energy forms to those who haven't completed Second Dreams: this may not seem like a big deal, but it at least would make it possible to prevent spoilers for The second dream. Could also reinforce the fluff by adding a canon reason why enemies don't know exactly what Tenno are and how they work since presumably it would represent what is normally seen.

-Optional

DO NOT WANT:

-Huge crowds of creepy children milling around public areas

-To have our Tenno appear in the mundane flesh via the nebulous and vaguely explained physical transference: Kind of defeats the purpose of transference in the first place.

I really like these points. I thought it was really cool to discover the operators in the Second Dream, and I figured it was a natural step to take missions on Lua with the explicit goal of rescuing other operators and maintaining the secret of their existence. It has always bothered me that operators are as visible in missions as they were even before the War Within, and I think your "vague energy form" suggestion is a great answer to that, as well as to concerns about spoilers.

[Fallen_Echo]

Heres what i want from the tenno mode teo lore fitting (i think) modes:

1) Void assasins, these are the demons of the void. INdoctrinated into genocidal maniacs and now under the hands of the Lotus, the fragile kids have grown up and became assasins. They can wall run (old wall run animation), jump higher (void jump with the height of a tripple jump), move faster (normal speed increased, sprint speed is atleast double) and use the traditional tenno gear with more efficiency ( general stat buff atleast +20% on all traditional ninja weapons including nikanas, thrown knifes and such). The void assasins possess increased survivability (base hp increased to 500), gained warframe specific armor (ember armor grants +30% fire damage, rhino grants +300 armor, ivara grants stealth field and so on) and the vast power of the void. Whenever a warframe would take lethal damage the safety systems of the transference mode would activate and eject out the operator to deal with the problems for the duration of the pre bleedout state (30 sec as an operator where you can revive yourself and 30 sec in bleedout if you failed that).

2) Fusion mode, when the need arises and the enemies are too much for you to take you can activate the operator fusion. When activated your frame loses 50% of its current health as a cost for great power. You gain +50% damage buff and +5% flat crit + status chance to all your weapons, while your warframe gains +100% power stat pre-set in the way you want (controlable in the arsenal you get a +100 points in the form of a slider slider where you can give this bonus to any of your stats). When in fusion mode your operator appears while wearing a shadow variant of the warframe you wear while having the same stats as you frame had when you activated the fusion mode. This mode is active for 1 minute total and It also has a cooldown system which prevents activating it more then every 2 minutes.

 

Also i want to actually customize them, i had enough of this ambigous kid.

 

[Xarteros]

3 hours ago, RedRiot14 said:

-To have our Tenno appear in the mundane flesh via the nebulous and vaguely explained physical transference: Kind of defeats the purpose of transference in the first place.

But it's not a manifestation of flesh, it's a manifestation of energy, held in place by our concentration. In order to manifest physical power, the manifestation needs to be physical. The only flesh form of the Operator is in the Orbiter's Transference room.

And it doesn't defeat the purpose of Transference at all. Piloting the Warframe allows the otherwise frail, slow bodies of the Tenno to be fast and powerful. It's the strength of the Warframe that allows us to punch blades through thick armour plates, and to absorb the recoil of massively powerful weapons without injury.

Sorry, I just felt like picking that point

[RedRiot14]

50 minutes ago, Xarteros said:

But it's not a manifestation of flesh, it's a manifestation of energy, held in place by our concentration. In order to manifest physical power, the manifestation needs to be physical. The only flesh form of the Operator is in the Orbiter's Transference room.

And it doesn't defeat the purpose of Transference at all. Piloting the Warframe allows the otherwise frail, slow bodies of the Tenno to be fast and powerful. It's the strength of the Warframe that allows us to punch blades through thick armour plates, and to absorb the recoil of massively powerful weapons without injury.

I would really rather it be that you were right, it would make more sense. But currently there is nothing that supports that. What we do have is the Queens calling us dumb for appearing "in the flesh" and risking our necks. We have npcs and enemies responding to and interacting with operators as if they were physically there. The Quill gives you a physical object that you equip. There is nothing that indicates there is any difference between the in mission transference and when we definitely physically leave the seat and get up and walk around the orbiter. No indicator of any kind either stated or implied that what we are doing is not physically appearing next to our Warframe, excepting the fact of how silly that would be.

If there is something in-game right now that supports what you are saying, I'd love to hear about it. It would be nice to see they still care about making some sense.

[RedRiot14]

2 hours ago, freeformline said:

I really like these points. I thought it was really cool to discover the operators in the Second Dream, and I figured it was a natural step to take missions on Lua with the explicit goal of rescuing other operators and maintaining the secret of their existence. It has always bothered me that operators are as visible in missions as they were even before the War Within, and I think your "vague energy form" suggestion is a great answer to that, as well as to concerns about spoilers.

Yea, it always struck me as a huge advantage that Tenno have is how it is a mystery how exactly they work and where the mind that controls them actually physically resides. Doing anything that would compromise that for no good reason strikes me as badwrong.

[RedRiot14]

2 hours ago, freeformline said:

I think operators should be what they were before the War Within: Remote controllers who fill an important role in the game's lore and allow for the existence of a focus system that enhances and complements the warframe combat system. As I see it, the only necessary role of the operator is to explain how a single Tenno can use multiple warframes with different body types and genders. I also like their potential for adding operator-warframe relationships in the quests, but I would really prefer that the operators have dialog and behavior that accurately reflects their long service as warriors rather than the immaturity they currently show. Character development focused on control, healing, and humanization would be more interesting to me than the maturation arc in the War Within.

Operators should not be a replacement for the warframes in combat. If they have any presence in combat, it should be as a supplement or as a background influence, preferably through focus passives and brief void energy bursts like those of Focus 1.0 actives, but shorter and more frequent. I do not think there should be anything resembling an operator mode outside of the orbiter. I liked my operator as an invalid because it gave my operator and warframe a sort of mind-and-body relationship that I enjoyed. I'm okay with the operator being up and at 'em again, but I feel that deploying the operator outside of the orbiter defeats the purpose of having the warframes in the first place.

The operator as the player's avatar in the game doesn't really work for me, either, but I think it's a fine option for players who like it. I had always identified as the warframes I played, so it didn't make any sense to shift my sense of identity into the random space child I found in the Second Dream, and the act of saving the operator in that quest ultimately made me feel protective and almost paternal toward the operator rather than seeing them as a representative of myself. If at all possible, I would prefer if future lore kept the player's identity distributed between the frames and the operator, rather than seating it entirely in the magic space child.

Yea, from what I have seen on the forums and heard from players in-game, your post as a whole seems pretty close to what the unspoken consensus is. I tried to capture the important parts of that in the list items. If there is a specific facet you think isn't covered, please let me know how to include it. Mind you, I also included some less extreme things that wouldn't make sense in the event of a drastic overhaul, but would just be nice band-aids in the meantime.

The section in bold above intrigues me. At some point they probably will get around to characterizing the Tenno through something more than the highly repetitive and occasionally relevant quips they spout during missions. When that time finally comes, I wonder how much in terms of choice we will really have.

[Xarteros]

4 hours ago, RedRiot14 said:

I would really rather it be that you were right, it would make more sense. But currently there is nothing that supports that. What we do have is the Queens calling us dumb for appearing "in the flesh" and risking our necks. We have npcs and enemies responding to and interacting with operators as if they were physically there. The Quill gives you a physical object that you equip. There is nothing that indicates there is any difference between the in mission transference and when we definitely physically leave the seat and get up and walk around the orbiter. No indicator of any kind either stated or implied that what we are doing is not physically appearing next to our Warframe, excepting the fact of how silly that would be.

If there is something in-game right now that supports what you are saying, I'd love to hear about it. It would be nice to see they still care about making some sense.

Well, we have a physical manifestation, but it's not the same as being in the flesh.

If we were in the flesh, death would mean death. Instead, in our Transference form, we are 'disrupted' or 'dispersed' in some form. The psychic energy is so shaken up that it recedes back into our Warframe (since we're using the Warframe like a psychic relay), and we have to re-form the energy to use Transference again.

Why are we then physical? Because in order to affect physical reality, we must manifest ourselves within reality. Otherwise, we'd be ethereal, and our power wouldn't affect objects around us.

As to amps, I think that they are just a similar manifestation. We manifest them physically so that they can project our energy on a physical level.

Of course, this all boils down to writing that hasn't been thought through properly

[RedRiot14]

15 hours ago, Xarteros said:

Well, we have a physical manifestation, but it's not the same as being in the flesh.

If we were in the flesh, death would mean death. Instead, in our Transference form, we are 'disrupted' or 'dispersed' in some form. The psychic energy is so shaken up that it recedes back into our Warframe (since we're using the Warframe like a psychic relay), and we have to re-form the energy to use Transference again.

Why are we then physical? Because in order to affect physical reality, we must manifest ourselves within reality. Otherwise, we'd be ethereal, and our power wouldn't affect objects around us.

As to amps, I think that they are just a similar manifestation. We manifest them physically so that they can project our energy on a physical level.

Of course, this all boils down to writing that hasn't been thought through properly

Again, your explanation irks me less than what is apparently the case currently but it is not backed up by anything in game. Go to the transference room in the orbiter with your Warframe and transfer back and forth while watching the chair. Your Tenno is just teleporting. There is even a graphic effect for the teleport. Currently, that's all it is. For your theory to be true, they'd have to always have their physical body staying put. I guess you could try to weasel out of it by saying that it is an actual teleport on the orbiter and something different in missions, even though they use the same graphic, but why bother to bend over backwards to cover-up what they are indicating?

And amps? I get that you are really trying hard to give them the benefit of the doubt, but you are reaching awfully hard here. What are the amps manifestations of then? The amp appears on your physical Tenno back on the orbiter. The simpler explanation is that the Tenno just teleport to and fro in order to be our new more permanent avatars, and anything they equip physically stays as a result. The dispersal thing is just as easily explained as when the Tenno take damage they teleport away instead of dying. The even simpler explanation is they are going with a concept that hasn't been very well thought out.

And unless the queen was wrong, we very much are appearing in the flesh. That could have been a miscommunication between the concept designers and the writers, but it is still there and hard to explain away without debunking that statement as false.

[Xarteros]

3 hours ago, RedRiot14 said:

Again, your explanation irks me less than what is apparently the case currently but it is not backed up by anything in game. Go to the transference room in the orbiter with your Warframe and transfer back and forth while watching the chair. Your Tenno is just teleporting. There is even a graphic effect for the teleport. Currently, that's all it is. For your theory to be true, they'd have to always have their physical body staying put. I guess you could try to weasel out of it by saying that it is an actual teleport on the orbiter and something different in missions, even though they use the same graphic, but why bother to bend over backwards to cover-up what they are indicating?

And amps? I get that you are really trying hard to give them the benefit of the doubt, but you are reaching awfully hard here. What are the amps manifestations of then? The amp appears on your physical Tenno back on the orbiter. The simpler explanation is that the Tenno just teleport to and fro in order to be our new more permanent avatars, and anything they equip physically stays as a result. The dispersal thing is just as easily explained as when the Tenno take damage they teleport away instead of dying. The even simpler explanation is they are going with a concept that hasn't been very well thought out.

And unless the queen was wrong, we very much are appearing in the flesh. That could have been a miscommunication between the concept designers and the writers, but it is still there and hard to explain away without debunking that statement as false.

I just typed a small essay, but that's tedious so i'll try to summarise my thoughts better.
 

• Nobody wants to have to run back to their transference chair in order to swap back to their Warframe. I'd say it's honestly a QoL feature, and it means the devs don't need to have sit/stand animations for the chair. I don't think it's meant to represent the underlying system, it's just a way to facilitate people mucking about in operator form.
• Ignoring the Mote amp, all your other amps have to be equipped directly on the ship. If Operators were always physical, why could they not just change amps down in the Quills den? I feel like it would have been easier for the Devs to make an Arsenal mode (like Conclave and Archwing) for Operators, if we were simply dealing with more gear. Of course, it might have been easier for them to just slap it on the Operator customisation screen, and we might just get an Arsenal tab for convenience. I'm ignoring the Mote Amp because it's better for the player to be introduced to a new feature without having much clunkiness. Having to go back to your Orbiter to equip your first Amp might be confusing for a lot of players, especially if they don't read the hint messages from Lotus.
• I feel like our 'deaths' in the War Within, during our Operator-only content are just a regular old case of Plot Armour. It gives you a different animation, showing you a specific cutscene rather than the simple backwards-drift of the Transference failure. The cutscene could be explained by the death taking place in a vision, rather than reality, given the pseudo-psychic nature of our Transference energy. 
• If we are always in the flesh, as you suggest, why were we even afraid of the Stalker in the Second Dream? If I use Transference to battle the Stalker in a normal mission, if he slays me, I just get dispersed. Why should we have been afraid of him then, but be able to face him regularly now?
• The only things I see that support the notion of always being in the flesh are a series of badly written plot lines and a bunch of convenient QoL features that allow the most amount of stuff to happen with the least amount of Dev work required.

[RedRiot14]

5 minutes ago, Xarteros said:

Nobody wants to have to run back to their transference chair in order to swap back to their Warframe. I'd say it's honestly a QoL feature, and it means the devs don't need to have sit/stand animations for the chair. I don't think it's meant to represent the underlying system, it's just a way to facilitate people mucking about in operator form.

So if the physical body is staying put, why does the chair become empty? Okay, okay fine: I see what you meant there. You are definitely saying they went with the teleport thing rather than having us get up and sit down. You are supposing that it's different from what happens in missions. That's fine. There's not exactly explicit evidence one way or the other so for now I can't really dispute anything. Only thing I can tell you for sure is that based on what I have seen, I am suspicious as all hell that it's a teleporting thing because they have lost their marbles and think Operator's need to be center stage and geared up like typical MMO avatars.

 

9 minutes ago, Xarteros said:

If we are always in the flesh, as you suggest, why were we even afraid of the Stalker in the Second Dream? If I use Transference to battle the Stalker in a normal mission, if he slays me, I just get dispersed. Why should we have been afraid of him then, but be able to face him regularly now?

I didn't say it. Elder queen said it, and DE is yet to have anything controvert it. I really don't want it to be the case, but I have seen no evidence to the contrary. Let me put it another way: if you can think of anything in game or direct from DE that implies the contrary of the teleporting physical bodies theory, I am desperate to hear it. I will acknowledge that we have only circumstantial evidence supporting this theory, but, unfortunately, absolutely nothing in the way of an alternative that I know of.

As for that part of second dream, let me answer your question with a question: How did Stalker AND Lotus get into our orbiter? That whole section has a lot to do with symbolism and drama but a lot less to do with a coherent narrative. That aside, like I said before: your Tenno doesn't die they just disappear. That could just as easily be them reflexively teleporting away from danger at the last moment as it is their projection being dispersed. And as you said elsewhere, The Matrix/Inception part of TWW was not actually happening so we were free to visualize the Tenno dying horribly without consequence.

I want soooo bad for things to not be this way: I'm with you, really I am. Your interpretations have real merit, and while not ideal to me they would still be preferable to the scenario that I suspect is currently the case. And It doesn't help that, for the most part, all I can do is second guess what DE is thinking. I just am disheartened to see DE indicating that they don't even care enough to make a distinction.

[Zanchak]

Do Want

- Tenno to be important, but not needed popping out of our Warframes that we spend SO LONG getting exactly the way we want them.

ie: Optional

- If their current form is to remain, an option to make them appear older is needed. (It's creepy, DE pls)

- Warframe to be about using Warframes

Do Not Want

- Tenno anywhere near gameplay. Period.

[BlackCoMerc]

On 11/2/2017 at 11:55 PM, allibound said:

"Let's talk about what the Operator should be"

 

Optional.

Seconded. And for ALL activities.

The less I HAVE to use Gimpy the Wonder Emo, the better. Perhaps with better movement and more engaging abilities, I wouldn't feel that way.

But if I have to move like I'm sludge while trudging forward with a single gun and no real powers...well, there's another game (or 6) where I can get that Experience. And NONE of them have crafting wait times.

Seriously, not only is Operator unfun...it's about the worst possible timing for taking the focus OFF the fun, fast, sleek and varied Warframe action. 

Titanfall 2, Destiny 2, CoD/Battlefield season. Fall game sales. All these opportunities to play bog standard shooters out or on the horizon...and you choose NOW to take the focus OFF your coolest, most unique feature?

Who makes these decisions? Was it Nullifier Guy again? It HAD to be Nullifier Guy. Seriously, you guys have GOT to stop letting him into the boardroom.

[BlackCoMerc]

1 hour ago, Zanchak said:

Do Want

- Tenno to be important, but not needed popping out of our Warframes that we spend SO LONG getting exactly the way we want them.

ie: Optional

- If their current form is to remain, an option to make them appear older is needed. (It's creepy, DE pls)

- Warframe to be about using Warframes

Do Not Want

- Tenno anywhere near gameplay. Period.

Seconding here, too. Namely: Creepy.

Our cold blooded, ruthless hired killer mercenary is...a CHILD? And has committed PATRICIDE at that.

Could there BE a more socially awkward time to introduce THIS plot twist than now? I mean...is no one else creeped out about this at all?

[Fallen_Echo]

49 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Seconding here, too. Namely: Creepy.

Our cold blooded, ruthless hired killer mercenary is...a CHILD? And has committed PATRICIDE at that.

Could there BE a more socially awkward time to introduce THIS plot twist than now? I mean...is no one else creeped out about this at all?

I wouldnt have problems with that if they would actually look like murderous children and not some lame emo with genocidal quotes.

[BlackCoMerc]

2 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

I wouldnt have problems with that if they would actually look like murderous children and not some lame emo with genocidal quotes.

Fair point. Their voice lines are so bad I silenced mine. It's like they just woke up, and someone else has been piloting the frames until now...

[Fallen_Echo]

4 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Fair point. Their voice lines are so bad I silenced mine. It's like they just woke up, and someone else has been piloting the frames until now...

I started playing the dragon age origins ultimate version and i just noticed that the tranquils (mages stripped down from emotions) are made with the exact same voice acting quality as our operators.

The difference their monotonous voice is fitting their lore not like ours. (skip to 0:35)

[racooperii]

If they're going to continue rolling out content for them, I would really want more synergy between the Warframe and the Operator. Remember that awesome scene where the Operator is about to get stabbed by Stalker to be saved by their Warframe? Why has this not become a thing in the game? Why not add Focus abilities that allow us to utilize the powers of our Warframes and also magnify them with the unbridled force of the Void the Tenno are supposed to possess in Operator mode? 

What I don't want is the dichotomy to deepen. As it is the Operator feels like just another weapon in the Warframe arsenal and frankly, not a very good one at that, and are just kind of becoming intrusive to the core mechanics to me.

[Xyhon]

Silly enough, Operators after quests, should allow us to JUST empower frames with void for short periods, like a skill tree it was supposed to be on focus 1.0. Not forcing as like with Kuva and Eidolon, to actually run around naked, shooting pea shots at uglies. Forcing many ideas this way, is making me play this game less and less.

[Pyradus]

 

On 11/3/2017 at 1:25 AM, freeformline said:

I really like these points. I thought it was really cool to discover the operators in the Second Dream, and I figured it was a natural step to take missions on Lua with the explicit goal of rescuing other operators and maintaining the secret of their existence. It has always bothered me that operators are as visible in missions as they were even before the War Within, and I think your "vague energy form" suggestion is a great answer to that, as well as to concerns about spoilers.

I agree. I think it was best during the Second Dream, when you first saw it. Strange, frail, silent little alien thing. Was it you? Is this me? It held massive, strange power that you didn't understand. It was mysterious, and actually cool. It was still Warframe.

I feel the direction things took after that is too different.

[RedRiot14]

So, and correct me if this seems off, the general impression I get when I look at the Operator, is that of something that has tried and failed to find a niche to fit into. Desperate attempts have been made, and their desperation has led to some decisions that only make the problem worse and seem to have really dampened the playerbase's view of the Operator.

For example, it feels like they tried to make operator mode be the anti-Sentient mode. This is strange from a lore perspective, considering Warframes were the weapons the Orokin created SPECIFICALLY to battle the Sentient. And on the practical end of things, the gameplay involved is generally awkward stuff you want to avoid when you compare it to the much more polished gameplay of a Warframe.

21 hours ago, CapnToaster said:

I agree. I think it was best during the Second Dream, when you first saw it. Strange, frail, silent little alien thing. Was it you? Is this me? It held massive, strange power that you didn't understand. It was mysterious, and actually cool. It was still Warframe.

I feel the direction things took after that is too different.

Yea, I feel like they need to take a bit more pride in the work they've done building that up. It just seems like such a waste to take this direction after all that.

Edited November 5, 2017 by RedRiot14