Is 'Skywing' not well balanced?

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

I've been using my archwing in the plains over the last couple days trying to find better solutions to dealing with the airborne enemies than the methods I've tried as a Warframe in Bounties above tier 2. 

From what I've been finding it seems the airborne enemies do infinitely more damage to our archwing (and our Warframes) than we can deal to them even with archwing abilities. This seems especially unusual considering how efficiently I can handle the same types of enemies when in actual archwing missions. 

Using my archwing, I've flown up to some of the aircrafts and pumped entire rounds of a 6 forma Amprex with pure Corrosive damage into them barely dealing a scratch (I'm aware some enemies have weak points). And enemies like the Ogma will chase you for miles constantly zooming around bombarding you with missile attacks unless dealt with. 

What methods do you use to deal with this in the plains other than only bringing tanky frames? Should 'Skywing' receive a damage and durability buff to airborne enemies to give more incentive to archwing combat that costs resources to even summon? Or, what am I missing?

[Kalvorax]

afaik skywing is really only intended to get around faster..not really for combat use.

[[DE]Grzegorz]

It takes way too little to take you out of the archwing and the whole system being based on consumables leaves bad taste in many people's mouths.

It is understandable that certain of these measures are there to prevent absolute cheese (which these mechanics fail at anyway, it's not possible to contain cheese), and ultimately result in confusing and not enjoyable mechanic.

First of all, I suggest that grineer caches should yield fish oil along with Iradite and Grokdrul, as to make them a consistent way to acquire all of the necessary resources for an archwing launcher instead of forcing people into the fishing minigame.

Second, something has to be done about being shot out of the air, but I have no idea how to approach this issue.

Edited November 22, 2017 by JuicyButthurt

[LSG501]

Skywing is basically a different game to archwing, the dev's said as much in devstream. 

Ogma are a pita on the ground (unless you use an opticor for one shot) but in the air they're pretty easy to kill, you just need to shoot from behind into their rear hatch, the other ones are the engines or from a part where there's no shield (or zenith's alt :))

 

Having said that it does have some really annoying issues.

Stopping a 'high speed' archwing is really awkward and slow compared with going forward, really wish they'd increase the 'slow down' speed so you can run up fast and then 'stop' and shoot. 

The one shot aspect of the game is annoying as anything because it's usually the 'silent missiles' that get you and well there's no way of avoiding something you don't know is coming.  This really defeats the point in them even being able to be used in combat imo and removes no end of tactical possibilities.  You'd think after all the complaints about archwing the dev's would actually want us to use them in an area where we actually 'enjoy' using them...

The cost doesn't seem like much but I'm going through 4 or more per mission on operation plauge star and well that soon adds up, especially for what is in most cases just being used for a taxi service.... I kind of wish they'd given us reusable hoverboards like unreal tournament 3 as an alternative 'high speed' travel at times, especially if they didn't want us to fight from the air (but then why the achievement)

 

The thing is that all these problems are only there when going against grineer, neither the eidolons or the infested have low level grunts that can one shot you from the archwing... and you know what fighting the infested from above in operation plague star has been really fun, it's a shame we can't do the same as easily with grineer....sometimes I feel like the dev's forget about this aspect of the game from time to time..

 

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2017 by LSG501
my sentance structure was really bad

[Eirshy]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

 Using my archwing, I've flown up to some of the aircrafts and pumped entire rounds of a 6 forma Amprex with pure Corrosive damage into them barely dealing a scratch (I'm aware some enemies have weak points). And enemies like the Ogma will chase you for miles constantly zooming around bombarding you with missile attacks unless dealt with.

Firbolg and Bolkors are very high Alloy (600 base; Bombards have only 500) over absurdly high Robotic health (8k Fir, 10k Bolk). Additionally, they are immune to bleed damage from slash procs, and I am unsure if Viral procs actually do anything to them.

Radiation is the element of choice against the dropships, as it gets a 75% armor ignore and either a +100% or +118.75% damage boon (not sure if rps multipliers are additive or multiplicative).

The Amprex is not a strong weapon, and is definitely not a strong proc weapon (due to Continuous status chance sucking). 6 forma means very little; you need a very strong riven to make the weapon usable outside of its intended low-level-room-clearing role. Strapping a jet pack to a tricked-out bug zapper doesn't suddenly make it Wing Diver's Thunder Sniper 40.

I do agree that they have a bit too much health- mag-dumping with a corrosive proc weapon with maxed Malevolence and Solar Eclipse at 200% power strength (so net 520% damage output with tripled status chance) shouldn't be as much of a slog through their health as it is. Of course, my Lanka has no trouble with a pure Radiation setup, so at least there's that.

Intentionally complaining about how hard it is to kill a tanky target with spitballs is fairly dumb.

 

As a note, the Ogma is Ferrite (500) over Cloned Flesh (600), and is thus similar to a Heavy Gunner (500/300). Corrosive Proc + Fire is your best bet, as the Ogma may also immune to bleed from slash proc (never tested this). Corrosive + Viral would be ideal, but that requires two toxin-based elements. Your Amprex build should be "okay" against them, since it gets a 75% ignore +75%, but the armor gets to be fairly thick fairly fast and you thus run into the fact that the amprex is kinda sh*t against bulk reeeeal quick.

Edited November 21, 2017 by TheBlueJelly

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

19 minutes ago, TheBlueJelly said:

 

My Amprex does have a Riven, and even without it has 125% crit chance, and i have 6.8x crit damage. 

I tear through sortie enemies with it regularly so it's not a weak weapon. You are right though that it is not a status weapon, and that could be a problem in this situation. I have several status weapons i use regularly but they are either short range or not hitscan so they're not the best to deal with rapid moving enemies.

[Eirshy]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

My Amprex does have a Riven, and even without it has 125% crit chance, and i have 6.8x crit damage. 

I tear through sortie enemies with it regularly so it's not a weak weapon. You are right though that it is not a status weapon, and that could be a problem in this situation. I have several status weapons i use regularly but they are either short range or not hitscan so they're not the best to deal with rapid moving enemies.

Then that's a 51 base damage weapon with a 25% chance of an x2 crit.
The Tenora, as an example, is at 23 *before* any crit is factored in.

Might be able to use it in sorties, but it's still not exactly good for killing heavies or superheavies- and definitely not capable of handling more than one armor type (outside of Hunter Munitions, probably). Not saying don't use it - hell, I use a Stradavar a *ton* and even with my extremely good riven (which unfortunately has -duration so I can't Hunter Munitions) it's trash past the mid-40s. Just saying for a DPS-test enemy like the dropships or, to a lessor extent, the Ogmas, you're very definitely using the wrong gun.

Edited November 21, 2017 by TheBlueJelly
fixed a hyphen-parenthetical to just be two sentences.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

41 minutes ago, TheBlueJelly said:

 

That's only one example, and not one of the main weapons i use. Unfortunately the main problem i come across is is the range and lack of hitscan.

Typically i use Rakta Cernos, Lens, Phage and Scourge. So they all suffer from that problem. 

I'm guessing I'll just have to get used to this then, because I'm not willing to use exclusively one type of weapon for the entire time sink expected for the largest update in this game's history just to solve an issue with one aspect of the update. I play every frame that exists, with various loadouts depending what works for the content. But that's usually based on specific missions, not entire regions. So I guess I'll be stubborn on this one. Lol

[(PSN)GhostZeroFour]

Mhh dont know for the highest level of em but alteast during secound highest bounty i usually play Interceptor with my Titania to clear sky.

wouldnt say i melt the furbolgs but i usually end one in my 60 shot mag before reloading

Using a Arca Plasmor as Primary with 4 R4 elemental mods , max chilling reload/hellschamber/blaze and a R6 Primed point blank (not enough forma atm to go higher)

Aura is Rifle amp (dont know if it even has an effect on plasma gun in fairymode, though i dont have any other Vpol auras atm and needed the slots)

 

I kinda like the lackings of AW in Plains as it gives my little fairy a special role wich is not so easily overtaken by more powerfull frames, kinda a shimmer of hope until she gets some needed buffs/bugfixes.

[Caelward]

13 hours ago, Kalvorax said:

afaik skywing is really only intended to get around faster..not really for combat use.

And this makes me really sad.

[Sasuda]

As stated using Radiation is your best bet, along with weapons that shoot fast, I switch from my Amprex to Akstilleto Primes they do well, although often I have Corrosive+Blast on them. Amprex I can take them up to level 40, beyond that I need other weapons though. Rakta Cernos will make it. Pandero will do the job. I've seen a number of Opticors that take them out. It seems to be the most effective. Haven't used it much myself.

[Transformau5]

Just take out their guns, the ships become useless past that.