Make Mirage better by making her augment Total Eclipse better

[RistN]

By doing just a slight tweak to Mirage's Total eclipse augment mod Mirage would be totaly viable for another way to build her.All it needs is more range because now with max range(overextended,strech,Augur reach) it has range of only 13.85 m.Other factors such as duration,strength and also at least one durability mod like vitality are important factors which make this build very hard to make.This way Total eclipse would't be OP because of Eclipse's mechanics.Variations between being in light (dmg buff) or dark (dmg reduction) are very incosistent.There are also a lot better and "easier to get" buffers than Mirage would be with this augment mod change so I dont see the problem.

My propasal on how to change it is just make range at least double from its base 5m it is now and make it work that allies who are in range of it when it is casted would be affected by it for the duration of its time(same as roar or everlasting ward for example) .

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

Many in the Warframe community feel that augments are already too heavily used as band-aids for broken aspects of frames. If improvements to an augment are necessary to fix that augment, then do so. But if the improvements are meant to fix the frame themselves then the solution needs to be work on the frame, not the band-aid. 

My response is in reference to the game in general, not specifically in Mirage's case.

[TKDancer]

21 minutes ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

Many in the Warframe community feel that augments are already too heavily used as band-aids for broken aspects of frames

the last thing mirage needs is for her improvements(which may or may not come) to depend on augments and make mod management an even bigger annoyance

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

21 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

the last thing mirage needs is for her improvements(which may or may not come) to depend on augments and make mod management an even bigger annoyance

Exactly. 

Changing the augment to fix the frame only further limits build diversity because it actually lessens the number of mod slots available to customize after the mandatory Augments are included. 

[DeliciousDoob69]

Her Total Eclipse is fairly underwhelming with it's measly range.

I know this is kind of off topic a little bit, so sorry for putting this here. I believe Mirage really needs to be looked at, because she doesn't work well with DE's new content. This post is just another example how she could use a little attention. Please, if you love Mirage and you have any spare time take a look at my post and comment. I appreciate your time, thank you.

 

 

Edited December 14, 2017 by deliciousdoobmaster69

[Draugurr]

The augments are band-aids to begin with. If anything it's the ability that needs fixing not the mod. 

[RistN]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

Exactly. 

Changing the augment to fix the frame only further limits build diversity because it actually lessens the number of mod slots available to customize after the mandatory Augments are included. 

You can fully build Mirage with this augment to buff alies using existing polarities.Mandatory augments?Well if something is worth using then people are going to use it and there is nothing "mandatory" about change I proposed.It only makes existing mod usuable and could  give Mirage one more role option.

 

3 hours ago, TKDancer said:

the last thing mirage needs is for her improvements(which may or may not come) to depend on augments and make mod management an even bigger annoyance

Whats up with all of the hate towards augment mods?I actually like them.To me frame that has several roles and could be used as dps,support and cc is the best Warframe.I dont like generaly used builds.

13 minutes ago, deliciousdoobmaster69 said:

Her Total Eclipse is fairly underwhelming with it's measly range.

Exactly my point.Very good augment but at same time it is crippled by its range.

[Ijaa-Aden]

Most augments are made to make powers benefit team instead of frame only, how is it a band-aid ? Most augments are made to favor teamplay.

[TKDancer]

7 minutes ago, RistN said:

Whats up with all of the hate towards augment mods?

cause some augments feel mandatory to make an ability worth a damn, making them feel like band-aid solutions, granted just adjusting the range of total eclipse wouldnt be bad, but she needs other adjustments more

[GinKenshin]

 So what? I agree that SOME augments need to be innate to the ability but you want eclipse augment to be innate too? 

 

I’m not disagreeing with the OP. For an augment meant to ‘change the playstyle of the warframe’ TE doesn’t do that, all it does is make you wanna stick to the one you wanna buff so a range buff is appreciated. But to the people saying TE should be innate with the range buff (if they are saying that) then no, just no 

[(PSN)lhbuch]

I agree that the range is bad but there is something even worse. What are you buffing when using mirage? Is it dark?  Is your team rdy to do damage and then its dark and everybody has dmg reduction? 

The ability itself is too inconsistent to know what the ... is going on. 

[zornyan]

2 hours ago, Talmac said:

Most augments are made to make powers benefit team instead of frame only, how is it a band-aid ? Most augments are made to favor teamplay.

Because many augments are 100% necessary to even make a frame useable

 

rhino *NEEDS* ironclad charge AND iron shrapnel to even become viable at high levels, without them his iron skin is worse then nezhas, and not being recastable leaves you open to death more often than not.

 

nyx *needs* assimilate for her 4, as it prevents allied fire from destroying her energy pool in 2/3 seconds and actually gives her survivability at high levels.

 

like I said, several frames just aren’t even viable without augments, and they shouldn’t be used as fixes for abilities that need actual tweaks (such as iron skin being recastable) 

 

2 hours ago, TKDancer said:

cause some augments feel mandatory to make an ability worth a damn, making them feel like band-aid solutions, granted just adjusting the range of total eclipse wouldnt be bad, but she needs other adjustments more

Exactly this^ 

 

Mod space  is precious enough as it is, having more mandatory mods for frames is just a poor solution in general.

 

before I can actually try to mod my rhino for different builds, I have to slot 2 augments and steel fiber (as iron skin scales from it) so nearly half the mod slots are gone before I even get to make a choice in what I want to slot

 

i mean, if you don’t slot assimilate on nyx, you leave yourself open to trolling (which happens a lot) and the skill as a stationary platform is nearly worthless (because allies can’t fire within a large radius) basically it turns nyxs 4 from an utterly worthless skill into a good one.

Edited December 14, 2017 by zornyan

[RistN]

Usage of words like mandatory and band-aid are so copy/paste words in this topic and they are just a poor attempt to diminish something and turn it into something bad.

It is like someone is forcing you to use this mods.If that is so than be a true Tenno and stop using all the mods that are mandatory,even better strip off all of the mods and go do lvl 100 mission vanila style.

For others who dont know what this words truly mean:

Band-aid mod=makes ability better

Mandatory mod= Better solution than any other mod you can put in that slot

[zornyan]

18 minutes ago, RistN said:

Usage of words like mandatory and band-aid are so copy/paste words in this topic and they are just a poor attempt to diminish something and turn it into something bad.

It is like someone is forcing you to use this mods.If that is so than be a true Tenno and stop using all the mods that are mandatory,even better strip off all of the mods and go do lvl 100 mission vanila style.

For others who dont know what this words truly mean:

Band-aid mod=makes ability better

Mandatory mod= Better solution than any other mod you can put in that slot

It’s because they make a frame go from useless, to useable.

 

without his augments, rhino lasts about 5 seconds at high levels (such as sorties, lvl 100 etc) and can easily be one shot by sortie bosses/kuva guardians etc

 

this is because

 

Iron skin offers little health at base

since it cannot be recast, even if you have 1hp left of iron skin, and can see incoming damage (say a napalm blast) you can’t do anything to absorb/prevent this, this leads to many situations where you have low amounts of iron skin left. Yet can’t recast to surivive, day reviving a downed team mate.

 

with his augments

 

his iron skin can scale much much higher (6k becomes 60k) which goes from a few seconds at high levels, to being an actual tank similar to nidus/chroma/inaros etc

 

can be recast, which is the most important thing, as instead of praying you take the “right amount” of damage, you can choose as and when, iron skin low but need to revive quick ? Pop iron skin again and go do it, manage to get a few enemies in a row for ironclad charge? Recast.

 

it literially takes rhino form very low tank levels (and overall a weak frame) to top tier tanking capabilities

 

augments should be just that, augmenting an ability to change how it plays, like excals chromatic blade, or frosts globe augment, not mandatory to make a frame viable for high level content

[Kevlareater]

51 minutes ago, RistN said:

Usage of words like mandatory and band-aid are so copy/paste words in this topic and they are just a poor attempt to diminish something and turn it into something bad.

It is like someone is forcing you to use this mods.If that is so than be a true Tenno and stop using all the mods that are mandatory,even better strip off all of the mods and go do lvl 100 mission vanila style.

For others who dont know what this words truly mean:

Band-aid mod=makes ability better

Mandatory mod= Better solution than any other mod you can put in that slot

Here's the thing regarding several "band-aid" mods:

• Hall of Malevolence is required for Mirage's clones to do any reasonable amount of damage.
• Irradiating Disarm is required for Loki for anything other than spy missions. Otherwise, he'll eventually be clubbed like a seal, and/or any foe outside of the cast radius will be killing him outside of invisibility.
• Regenerative Molt is literally required for Saryn to have a modicum of survivability beyond level 40 enemies. She has no CC options, and her kit ironically works against itself.
• Jet Stream is required for Zephyr to survive, since she has cardboard armor and 75% of her kit is counterintuitive to any mission outside of the plains.
• Resonance is damn near required for Banshee to have any relevance for content above level 40.

These examples are the more egregious. No one is forcing me to use any of these, but if I don't want to be a waste of space with no ability to crowd control, do damage to a foe, support the team and/or survive a hit, then taking these mods is the best option for me. Also: Tenno, like the ninja that predate us by real life centuries (or so many millennia in the Warframe universe), used whatever they had in their arsenal to complete their assignments, so that whole no true Scotsman thing I bolded is total crap.

[RistN]

18 minutes ago, Kevlareater said:

Hall of Malevolence is required for Mirage's clones to do any reasonable amount of damage.

Not required.This is actually very good and very strong ability.Augment only makes it even stronger.

25 minutes ago, Kevlareater said:

Irradiating Disarm is required for Loki for anything other than spy missions. Otherwise, he'll eventually be clubbed like a seal, and/or any foe outside of the cast radius will be killing him outside of invisibility.

Yet again not required.Simple fact is that loki without invisibility is dead either way.Thats his key ability.

27 minutes ago, Kevlareater said:

Regenerative Molt is literally required for Saryn to have a modicum of survivability beyond level 40 enemies. She has no CC options, and her kit ironically works against itself.

Waste of mod slot.Ever heard of Life strike,Furis with augment,Hirudo or the best of all Magus Elevate arcane set?

30 minutes ago, Kevlareater said:

Jet Stream is required for Zephyr to survive, since she has cardboard armor and 75% of her kit is counterintuitive to any mission outside of the plains.

Here is where you mixed all up...Turbulance is redirecting projectiles but its augment mod Jet stream only makes Zephyr and allies move faster and their projectiles ,which have travel time ,move faster.Big fail here...

39 minutes ago, Kevlareater said:

Resonance is damn near required for Banshee to have any relevance for content above level 40

Resonance is a very good mod but it is not required for Sonar to do its thing.You just need to recast it more without augment.

And here is another big fail and a insault to the player that absolutely loves Banshee.She doesnt have relevance above lvl 40?Man she is no.1 end game warframe.Nothing and I mean nothing in this game comes close to the buff she is giving.You do know her Sonar is capable of max 18x dmg multiplier?Name one that gives you 8x and then you will realize have powerful she is.

[zornyan]

18 minutes ago, RistN said:

Not required.This is actually very good and very strong ability.Augment only makes it even stronger.

Yet again not required.Simple fact is that loki without invisibility is dead either way.Thats his key ability.

Waste of mod slot.Ever heard of Life strike,Furis with augment,Hirudo or the best of all Magus Elevate arcane set?

Here is where you mixed all up...Turbulance is redirecting projectiles but its augment mod Jet stream only makes Zephyr and allies move faster and their projectiles ,which have travel time ,move faster.Big fail here...

Resonance is a very good mod but it is not required for Sonar to do its thing.You just need to recast it more without augment.

And here is another big fail and a insault to the player that absolutely loves Banshee.She doesnt have relevance above lvl 40?Man she is no.1 end game warframe.Nothing and I mean nothing in this game comes close to the buff she is giving.You do know her Sonar is capable of max 18x dmg multiplier?Name one that gives you 8x and then you will realize have powerful she is.

May I ask how to plan to use lifestrike, when at high levels (or low levels of MOT) saryn gets 70% of her life gone in 1 hit?

 

a corpus shotgunner in mot, can nearly 1 shot saryn with vitality + stee fiber, at lvl 35. You don’t want to be remotely in melee range of anything.

 

also.

 

Rhino needs 2 augments to be relevant at high levels.

 

nyx needs 1 augment to not lose all her energy to allies firing their weapons within a 15 meter radius

 

Fatal teleport is literially a fix for how buggy ash’s 3 is.

Firequake is the only way to make ember even relevant past lvl 50 mobs.

 

Corroding barrage is literially the only way for hydroid to kill enemies last lvl 50

 

Every nekros build either has shield of shadows or despoil in it (if not both) as without it desecrate isn’t sustainable, and without shield of shadows nekros goes down too fast

 

ivara is near enough unplayable due to how slow she moves without infiltrate, and that augment is the only reason she’s ever used above Loki for stealth missions.

 

Eternal war gives valkyr the only worthwhile build outside of hysteria (which you can’t really build for anyway since the nerf)

 

 

Repelling bastille is the only way to make basitlle remotely useful as a lockdown skill. More so against infested as they overwhelm the bastille in seconds requiring multiple casts of an expensive skill to even have a hope of working

 

 

[RistN]

2 hours ago, zornyan said:

it literially takes rhino form very low tank levels (and overall a weak frame) to top tier tanking capabilities

Dont know about you but nothing one shots my rhino.I have iron shrapnel augment on.Recasting Iron armor with it is enough,Ironclad charge is not needed.It does make some crazy amounts of armor for rhino but it also requires to build in a specific way.

Overal weak frame?

1)On one of my builds I have 9k ferrite armor which I can recast any time and also on the same build i have 2,65x dmg buff.

Tank and buffer not good? 

2)Try Rhino Stomp build.One of best if not the best cc in this game.62 m range(70 with Augur reach)...Without any augment mods.

Actually I would call Rhino one of the perfectly designed warframes that can be built for every single role.

[zornyan]

8 minutes ago, RistN said:

Dont know about you but nothing one shots my rhino.I have iron shrapnel augment on.Recasting Iron armor with it is enough,Ironclad charge is not needed.It does make some crazy amounts of armor for rhino but it also requires to build in a specific way.

Overal weak frame?

1)On one of my builds I have 9k ferrite armor which I can recast any time and also on the same build i have 2,65x dmg buff.

Tank and buffer not good? 

2)Try Rhino Stomp build.One of best if not the best cc in this game.62 m range(70 with Augur reach)...Without any augment mods.

Actually I would call Rhino one of the perfectly designed warframes that can be built for every single role.

Perhaps I shout reiteriste

 

for low levels, rhino is fine.

 

for high levels 9k iron skin is absolutely nothing, that is around 1 second of enemy fire at lvl 100, or around 2 shots from a lvl 30 MOT butcher/shotgunner.

 

thats 2 seconds or so of survival, for 50 energy.

 

9k iron skin is absolutely nothing, considering most sortie bosses like Kela can do 5x that damage per shot.

You yourself have iron shrapnel slotted, because as stated it is necessary for his survival at high levels, and if you plan on actually tackling difficult content then ironclad charge is needed too.

 

with 9k iron skin, kuva flood guardians can one hit you (if they crit) all the way to being in bleedout stage. Just as an example

 

yes. Without his augments rhino is weak.

 

this is coming from a rhino main since 2014

[DatDarkOne]

3 hours ago, zornyan said:

ivara is near enough unplayable due to how slow she moves without infiltrate, and that augment is the only reason she’s ever used above Loki for stealth missions.

Speak for yourself please. :D   Remember that not everyone thinks, views, or have the same opinion as you fellow Tenno.  My view and experience on this one matter just happen to be the opposite of your statement.  

[RistN]

14 hours ago, zornyan said:

May I ask how to plan to use lifestrike, when at high levels (or low levels of MOT) saryn gets 70% of her life gone in 1 hit?

And regenerative molt works like how?Healing you 50 health per second over 10 seconds.It gets better with mods on Saryn but it means it requires a build for it.Also this mod has a bug.This is augment mod I tryed using but there were always better ways to heal which are more effective.I don't use Life strike or Hirudo.I just named them as possible alternative.Furis with augment mod Winds of purity and Arcane set Magus Elevate are best alternative healers in the game and lot beter than Regenerative molt.Magus Elevate gives you 200 health in 1s time action and that is only what one set does because you can equip 2 sets of it...This makes every warframe heal not only Saryn.

[WARLOCKE]

On 12/14/2017 at 3:08 PM, RistN said:

Dont know about you but nothing one shots my rhino.I have iron shrapnel augment on.Recasting Iron armor with it is enough,Ironclad charge is not needed.It does make some crazy amounts of armor for rhino but it also requires to build in a specific way.

Overal weak frame?

1)On one of my builds I have 9k ferrite armor which I can recast any time and also on the same build i have 2,65x dmg buff.

Tank and buffer not good? 

2)Try Rhino Stomp build.One of best if not the best cc in this game.62 m range(70 with Augur reach)...Without any augment mods.

Actually I would call Rhino one of the perfectly designed warframes that can be built for every single role.

I had to log in to comment on this (I dont post anymore), 

9k iron skin is NOTHING past lvl 60. I am being generous.

Rhino is a mess once content gets past star chart levels. If you want to ever rely on IS past star chart you need Iron Clad Charge. NEED. Not a option. Iron Skin is actually the poster boy for augments being a band aid.