Oberons Passive

[(PSN)lhbuch]

I rly think that having vacuum for pets would  boost their usage. I know it seems lazy but when things get rough, its hard to walk around collecting loot.

Edited December 28, 2017 by (PS4)lhbuch

[Yperkeimenos]

1 hour ago, MuscleBeach said:

Yeah, angels come down and cleanse you of disease. And when Ember casts world of fire, she's actually calling in a favor Satan owes her and he's actually the one burning everything. 

It was a stab at your bathing in Fukushima to cleanse yourself.... Why don't you go cast his abilities and see if it makes divine light or summons an angel to find your answer. Maybe, just maybe, he's able to make his plants radioactive with the same divine powers that he cleanses you with. 

Whatever.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Yperkeimenos

[VoidWraith]

2 hours ago, MuscleBeach said:

Oberon Prime unleashes dogmatic retribution upon enemies, and supports allies with divine benevolence in equal measure. Featuring altered mod polarities for greater customization. 

 

1 hour ago, Yperkeimenos said:

Whatever.

Wow... so...someone explains it a lot better than I did, but I guess for you it's not good enough, because it defies "real-world" logic for you... Oh well... @MuscleBeach at least we tried.
Especially seeing as he's trying to force such logic into a "game-world".....

Edited December 28, 2017 by VoidWraith

[Sasuda]

Kinda sad our paladin became a druid. His original identity has really been shifted lore wise which has unfortunately carried over to his gameplay. Not really a fan of the animal buffing passive personally. Or the nature friendly frame Oberon has become. Maybe I just want a new frame to take the Paladin role at this point. Which he kind of functionally is a paladin more then a Druid, so it does bother me that this is the direction his abilities were changed to. Not a fan of grass growing either. Fine for a frame that is originally built to be a druid but eating away Oberon's identity is really unfortunate.

btw this was his release notes " - New Warframe: OBERON – the Paladin Warframe! Equally adept at healing friends or striking down the enemy. Oberon embodies the balance Tenno are sworn to uphold. Find him today by fighting Vay Hek!"

His radiation was originally due to light/holy themeing. Would be nice if his passive was related to radiation/light in my opinion. At this point the frame's in the awkward position of changing away from the druid theme also is as bad as changing him from paladin though. Unfortunately I think the passive he should have had is now built into his 4 abilities so deeply it'd almost be an entire rework to adjust them.

Overall I guess I'd just like to see it also affect sentinels, otherwise I think his passive is among the many relatively bad passives in game. Rather even if it did affect sentinels I think it's still not a great passive.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Sasuda
Bad sentence structure

[Yperkeimenos]

21 hours ago, VoidWraith said:

 

Wow... so...someone explains it a lot better than I did, but I guess for you it's not good enough, because it defies "real-world" logic for you... Oh well... @MuscleBeach at least we tried.
Especially seeing as he's trying to force such logic into a "game-world".....

It's one of the most dishonest methods of discrediting someone, when you take a sentence out of context,copy paste it into another text and turn it into something else. Why don't you include the whole comment to which i answered "whatever" and see, instead of copy pasting my answer from one comment onto another. Besides i answered that way because i didn't get the irony,if there was any, and had nothing more to add.

Edit : Oh and if it's unreasonable to force real world logic into a game world,then you wouldn't mind if Oberon's passive included sentinels. It's "game logic" not "real logic" anyway.

Edited December 29, 2017 by Yperkeimenos

[Yperkeimenos]

16 hours ago, Sasuda said:

Kinda sad our paladin became a druid. His original identity has really been shifted lore wise which has unfortunately carried over to his gameplay. Not really a fan of the animal buffing passive personally. Or the nature friendly frame Oberon has become. Maybe I just want a new frame to take the Paladin role at this point. Which he kind of functionally is a paladin more then a Druid, so it does bother me that this is the direction his abilities were changed to. Not a fan of grass growing either. Fine for a frame that is originally built to be a druid but eating away Oberon's identity is really unfortunate.

btw this was his release notes " - New Warframe: OBERON – the Paladin Warframe! Equally adept at healing friends or striking down the enemy. Oberon embodies the balance Tenno are sworn to uphold. Find him today by fighting Vay Hek!"

His radiation was originally due to light/holy themeing. Would be nice if his passive was related to radiation/light in my opinion. At this point the frame's in the awkward position of changing away from druid is also bad though. Unfortunately I think the passive he should have had is now built into his 4 abilities so deeply it'd almost be an entire rework to adjust them.

Overall I guess I'd just like to see it also affect sentinels, otherwise I think his passive is among the many relatively bad passives in game. Rather even if it did affect sentinels I think it's still not a great passive.

Yes i agree,at this point Oberon doesn't know what he wants to be. He tries to be a nature loving, tree hugging druid but at the same time rains down upon his enemies radioactive divine light,the way a paladin would. It's a mess, because these two don't mix well,......... extreme radiation and nature? Not a good combo.But i think his druidic kit is becoming more dominant all the more so because he is also a fairy king, with strong ties to nature. DE however needs to fix this and instead of him being a hybrid turn him into a pure Druid or Paladin. I don't think that this is gonna happen anytime soom though, so i'll settle for his passive affecting sentinels as well, even at half the strength.

Edited December 29, 2017 by Yperkeimenos

[Blade_Wolf_16]

Le 21/12/2017 à 17:14, Yperkeimenos a dit :

Again pls read more carefully,Oberons PASSIVE is unusable for players who use a sentinel, not the frame itself. That's the whole point of this topic.

Sentinels are already "better" than companions for a lot of people and they already buffed them by giving all Sentinels a Vaccum mod and some buffs to the Wyrm Prime. Oh that's true, there are Prime Sentinels with their Prime guns, but no Prime Kavat or anything (since it wouldn't really make any sense). Sentinels can deal heavy damage depending on how you build them or even decent CC (Wyrn, Diriga, Artax and Sweeper) at short/medium range, while companions can only melee. They can also regen ammo, shield (3 different ways) and hp and they can even revive you if you have the mod for it. 

The downside of Sentinels is how fragile they are (since they can't be revived forever). Other than that, there is nothing wrong with them. Companions, on the other hand, are clumsy (stuck in pretty much anything), can only melee and don't always follow you because they are affected by the enemies' CC. Kavats can buff you, but aren't always reliable (the Smeeta has a 30~ish% chance to give one random buff after 27 sec) and Kubrows have a variety of CC/support abilities, such as a (weak) disarm and loot grab, fear and shield egen (only one out of 5 can do that), 2 have the same kind of Finisher move that takes forever... Basically, very situational abilities. 

 

DE wanted Oberon to interact with companions for months if not years because it suits him. They changed his old, situationnal and problematic passive for this one and it's perfect. Most frames have passive that promotes something specific, such as Mesa's Pistol and hp buff (if no melee equipped), Loki's spider-man passive, Exca's Sword-only buff, etc. Those passives are "unusable" for players who don't use secondaries (some people prefer using their Primary or Melee) and use a melee weapon as a Mesa, or players who prefer to stay on the ground while using Loki, or people using Heavy Blades, Hammers, Whips, Blade and Whips, Daggers, Staffs, Polearms, etc. with Exca. 

Sentinels are good as they are, companions aren't quite equal to them. Oberon can buff the "worst" of the two, but you're not forced to use it, just like an Exca is not forced to use a sword. 

Try to consider the facts that we show you before saying we are not reading carefully. 

[Yperkeimenos]

1 hour ago, Blade_Wolf_16 said:

Sentinels are good as they are, companions aren't quite equal to them.

Obviously you haven't taken into consideration the hunter mod set,which buffs pets quite adequately. Sentinels don't have that , so that evens the field enough for me to ask for his passive to include sentinels too. But there is something else ,if the whole point of making Oberons passive not affect  Sentinels, is because pets are weaker, then why not buff pets more so that they can justify their high maintenance cost. Oberons passive affecting only pets seems more like a band aid than anything else,plus it excludes players who main a sentinel from benefiting from it. When i equip Oberon and since i use a sentinel, it's like i have no passive and i find this to be unfair and that includes any passive that's situational and excludes certain groups of players from benefiting from them. Other frames have passives that can be used or are beneficial to all. Take for example Volts passive,there is no restriction to using it even from players who prefer gliding, since they will eventually touch the ground and do some running. Besides as you said, sentinels are quite fragile, so they do have downsides of their own.

Edited December 29, 2017 by Yperkeimenos

[MuscleBeach]

6 minutes ago, Yperkeimenos said:

Obviously you haven't taken into consideration the hunter mod set,which buffs pets quite adequately. Sentinels don't have that , so that evens the playground enough for me to ask for his passive to include sentinels too.

Does anyone use any of that set besides hunter munitions? And with damage 2.5 the way it's currently looking, I doubt that set will be used anymore. Also, a pet dealing more damage isn't that big of a deal. Warframes already kill everything fantastically, that's why sentinels and their vacuums are so loved. I even remove the gun off my carrier to make sure it doesn't waste time attacking instead of sucking loot up and healing me. I'm simply trying to say that the playground still isn't even since they would need a utility purpose, not a killing purpose, which they still don't do well enough. 

[Yperkeimenos]

5 minutes ago, MuscleBeach said:

Does anyone use any of that set besides hunter munitions? And with damage 2.5 the way it's currently looking, I doubt that set will be used anymore. Also, a pet dealing more damage isn't that big of a deal. Warframes already kill everything fantastically, that's why sentinels and their vacuums are so loved. I even remove the gun off my carrier to make sure it doesn't waste time attacking instead of sucking loot up and healing me. I'm simply trying to say that the playground still isn't even since they would need a utility purpose, not a killing purpose, which they still don't do well enough. 

Correct, but if you re read my now edited post,you'll see that i proposed for pets to be buffed so they can justify their high maintenance cost,instead of having Oberon buff  only them as a way to cover their weakness. Also regardless of anything else,the hunter set is still there and readily available to whoever wants to use it and it does buff pets significantly.

Edited December 29, 2017 by Yperkeimenos

[VoidWraith]

2 hours ago, Yperkeimenos said:

It's one of the most dishonest methods of discrediting someone, when you take a sentence out of context,copy paste it into another text and turn it into something else. Why don't you include the whole comment to which i answered "whatever" and see, instead of copy pasting my answer from one comment onto another. Besides i answered that way because i didn't get the irony,if there was any, and had nothing more to add.

Edit : Oh and if it's unreasonable to force real world logic into a game world,then you wouldn't mind if Oberon's passive included sentinels. It's "game logic" not "real logic" anyway.

Perhaps it is, but I think everyone can go back to the entire back and forth between you two. He ( @MuscleBeach ) gave an explanation to you about Oberon's passive and how it works, and the theory-craft behind it, but you don't accept the explanation and blow it off. I don't really need to copy and paste the entire back and forth between the two of you, but I just basically summarized it down to what you two have come down to at the end. In the end, since you did not accept the theory-craft and went into sarcastic response to his explanation to you, he in turn responded with sarcasm as well, to which you blew it off with a "Whatever". 
Some people including myself have also explained why Oberon's passive works as such (at least we try to explain it according to what the powers actually are and a possible explanation of it). His powers are based on radiation. This is not disputed. But his other powers also benefit allies. Like granting armor, removing status debuffs (to certain extent), health-regen. His 4th ability if it kills enemies will have a high percentage to spawn health orbs, and it blinds nearby enemies. Another thing, while his passive doesn't buff sentinels, at least his third ability will still heal companions (pets and sentinels). This kind of works into the idea of him being the whole paladin/druid theme. Hurts or smites enemies while helping/healing/supporting allies.
This is not an answer to Oberon's passive not affecting sentinels.

 

Oberon's passive doesn't include Sentinels because of the fact that they are sentinels... they all explode upon death, which signal they are machine-like in nature. This is not to say they are not "alive" they probably have some amount of sentience. Pets like kavats and kubrows they leave an actual corpse and they are bio-organisms. Whether they were gene-spliced test tube babies, they are organic. A sentinel is like a no different from a corpus or infested drone, they are very much machine-like. They explode on death, and there is no way to res them aside from a regen or primed regen mod. Whereas for pets you can revive them as many times as they get downed (which is also a reason why the second part of the passive is 1 instant revive per mission). In a sense, Oberon's passive works like an arcane revive for pets I guess....

 

Although I may not mind Oberon's passive working for sentinels, I and a couple others were trying to give you an explanation of why it doesn't and perhaps why DE didn't include sentinels.

Edited December 29, 2017 by VoidWraith

[MuscleBeach]

10 minutes ago, VoidWraith said:

In the end, since you did not accept the theory-craft and went into sarcastic response to his explanation to you, he in turn responded with sarcasm as well, to which you blew it off with a "Whatever". 

You're right, I did do that. I was getting snarky with him because I thought my reasons were more than adequate and I was getting frustrated. Sorry Yperkeimenos. But let's drop this pointless bickering and continue with the other points that haven't been talked about as this is all against the code of conduct. At the end of the day, what we're arguing about is design philosophy, which is ultimately just a discussion of opinions. He wanted it to be either more realistic with what the devs went with or to branch out the parts that lack realism to include sentinels. I didn't agree with him. That conversation ends there. Let's keep it productive to the development of Warframe from here out so mods don't start locking threads. 

 

52 minutes ago, Yperkeimenos said:

But there is something else ,if the whole point of making Oberons passive not affect  Sentinels, is because pets are weaker, then why not buff pets more so that they can justify their high maintenance cost.

I 100% disagree that this is the reasons sentinels are excluded. I believe it's merely a coincidence that it worked out that way. I think some day a new warframe should be released that does something for sentinels and if they want to make a stab at sentinels being better, they can make the passive on that warframe crappy. Or they can just fix pets so that we can complain that sentinels don't get a warframe with a passive that loves them. So, I agree with you that pets need a buff (more than just damage) and that a Warframe should have a passive that works with Sentinels. But I disagree that the warframe should be oberon as I still believe it fits his theme and sentinels are not a part of it. 

 

Also, instead of justifying pets costs, I think they need to just remove those costs and also buff pets. The costs are really pointless and don't affect the game in any positive way that I can think of. But that's a talk for a different thread. 

[Yperkeimenos]

46 minutes ago, VoidWraith said:

Perhaps it is, but I think everyone can go back to the entire back and forth between you two. He ( @MuscleBeach ) gave an explanation to you about Oberon's passive and how it works, and the theory-craft behind it, but you don't accept the explanation and blow it off. I don't really need to copy and paste the entire back and forth between the two of you, but I just basically summarized it down to what you two have come down to at the end. In the end, since you did not accept the theory-craft and went into sarcastic response to his explanation to you, he in turn responded with sarcasm as well, to which you blew it off with a "Whatever". 
Some people including myself have also explained why Oberon's passive works as such (at least we try to explain it according to what the powers actually are and a possible explanation of it). His powers are based on radiation. This is not disputed. But his other powers also benefit allies. Like granting armor, removing status debuffs (to certain extent), health-regen. His 4th ability if it kills enemies will have a high percentage to spawn health orbs, and it blinds nearby enemies. Another thing, while his passive doesn't buff sentinels, at least his third ability will still heal companions (pets and sentinels). This kind of works into the idea of him being the whole paladin/druid theme. Hurts or smites enemies while helping/healing/supporting allies.
This is not an answer to Oberon's passive not affecting sentinels.

Your response is full of inaccuracies and i'll answer them one by one. First of all you acted in a dishonest way and admitted as much which doesn't set a good precedent nor is a good way of starting a conversation. Secondly simply because you or anyone else proposed or stated you opinions doesn't mean i have to accept them. I stated my own as well and didn't blow off anyone else's line of thought and even for the "whatever", which seems to bother you for some reason, i gave an adequate explanation. Thirdly i never answered sarcastically to his explanations ,i responded with irony to your post, which presented the idea that plants which emit intense radiation can actually cleanse all status and buff all players. Of course i wasn't being ironic towards you specifically but towards this whole mechanic which supposes that a nature themed frame can use radiation to cleanse and buff allies. It's like saying that going for a swim near Fukushima will cleanse you of all illnesses (stats) and make you stronger (buff), gamma radiation is so good for the skin after all.Thirdly ,in your comment you say that sentinels are mechanical in nature and very much machine-like. Can you point me to where in warframe lore does it specifically state that sentinels are just machines? I could argue,by the same logic, that they are made of living tissue,which makes them alive and they explode as part of a gas build up in their system.

Edited December 29, 2017 by Yperkeimenos

[Yperkeimenos]

8 minutes ago, MuscleBeach said:

You're right, I did do that. I was getting snarky with him because I thought my reasons were more than adequate and I was getting frustrated.

Just because you thought they were ,doesn't mean they actually were and getting frustrated simply because i didn't accept your line of reasoning isn't a good way to have a conversation. i still believe that sentinels should be included in his passive and have stated my reasons as to why this must be.So I agree to disagree on this one.

12 minutes ago, MuscleBeach said:

I 100% disagree that this is the reasons sentinels are excluded. I believe it's merely a coincidence that it worked out that way. I think some day a new warframe should be released that does something for sentinels and if they want to make a stab at sentinels being better, they can make the passive on that warframe crappy

Since we aren't the Devs ,there is no way of knowing is there? Perhaps that's the reason they were excluded to begin with, perhaps not, there is no way of knowing. In my view they were excluded as an oversight which i seek to point out with these posts. If they eventually do fix it ,it means i was right ,if they don't then this is the way they intended it  to be or are to busy to bother.

[VoidWraith]

5 hours ago, Yperkeimenos said:

Your response is full of inaccuracies and i'll answer them one by one. First of all you acted in a dishonest way and admitted as much which doesn't set a good precedent nor is a good way of starting a conversation. Secondly simply because you or anyone else proposed or stated you opinions doesn't mean i have to accept them. I stated my own as well and didn't blow off anyone else's line of thought and even for the "whatever", which seems to bother you for some reason, i gave an adequate explanation. Thirdly i never answered sarcastically to his explanations ,i responded with irony to your post, which presented the idea that plants which emit intense radiation can actually cleanse all status and buff all players. Of course i wasn't being ironic towards you specifically but towards this whole mechanic which supposes that a nature themed frame can use radiation to cleanse and buff allies. It's like saying that going for a swim near Fukushima will cleanse you of all illnesses (stats) and make you stronger (buff), gamma radiation is so good for the skin after all.Thirdly ,in your comment you say that sentinels are mechanical in nature and very much machine-like. Can you point me to where in warframe lore does it specifically state that sentinels are just machines? I could argue,by the same logic, that they are made of living tissue,which makes them alive and they explode as part of a gas build up in their system.

Well... First: My response isn't really full of inaccuracies, but there are some points that could be cleared up. I didn't really act in a dishonest way, but more just summarized what happened in the end, which the other person in the forum and you have appeared to react.

Secondly: While you are entitled to your opinion just as much as everybody else, I sense that you are aggressive in your response to others. I could be wrong on that point, since sometimes text can be misinterpreted. Everybody doesn't have to agree, and you do not have to accept the explanations given to you, but it's also not needed to respond as you did. The "whatever" quote was just use to summarize you "blowing off" the response to of the person you were quoting. I'm not saying this is a bad or good thing, but it is an actual fact of what it seems to look like from reading. But I guess in the end it doesn't matter if you take it negatively or neutrally. I'm just explaining what seems to make sense to me and how it appears to me.

Thirdly: You did come off as sarcastic in your post just before he responded about the angels being summoned from above and etc. I don't really mind how you take it as I was still in the end still summarizing and responding pretty neutrally, and explaining what seems to have happened. The other person has even admitted to it and wishes to end it, and wish to pursue this thread in a more positive and constructive way, so that's also cool. But onto the irony that the nature/druid/paladin themed warframe known as Oberon, uses radiated plants to cleanse and buff allies is kind of comical if you view it the way you did. Or as the previous poster said, it could just be a as the name of the skill suggests, Hallowed Ground, which "sanctifies the ground before Oberon with righteous fire, inflicting damage to any enemy that stands in the flames" -taken from the wikia and in-game codex. Although it doesn't state the other side effect of helping allies. But here is the his abilities to use as reference to at least what we used to explain his abilities. 

The second thirdly: I say that sentinels are more machine-like in nature because of how they seem to be built and how they die. Their mods also seem to suggest so. There is no definite warframe lore that state that they are in fact machines. For all we know, they can be a lesser sentient in which their intellect (AI) isn't as advanced as the actual sentient (hunhow and etc.) but that will still make them more machine like. Their deaths also seem to suggest it, at least to me it does. They explode on death, leaving no corpse or such, similar to corpus drones or those infested drones, and possibly the grineer rollers. They all explode on death. Where as the Warframes and pets leave behind a corpse when they get downed and need a revive or death. While this explanation doesn't help as warframes themselves also have some building materials that you can argue is pretty much similar in how a sentinel is built, but at least I'm trying to explain it that perhaps they are still essentially puppets with an AI pushed into them, same as how

Spoiler

a Warframe isn't really alive, and are just puppets that the Tenno use.

While the explanation is crappy, perhaps the warframe is just essentially keeping to his theme of being a druid/paladin/nature themed frame? I think Oberon Prime's trailer also kind of helps suggests that his powers seem to work in that direction. The forest is his domain, and he is its protector and intruders/invaders/outsiders will be rid of. 

Side note: The data fragments that you can scan on mars seem to suggest that the early sentinels were possibly an offshoot of the sentients that weren't aggressive when they were discovered, and were used to assist the tenno during missions. This is reflected in how most sentinels (those of tenno origin) tend to be more organic in appearance compared to those built by other factions (such as the grineer-built diriga).

Again, you can disagree with the explanation I have given because it isn't clear enough, but I'm at least going off of what DE has given us, and piecing together from my understanding of why the warframes powers work the way they do and etc. 

Well, this is basically all I have left to explain or contribute to the thread.

As I have said previously, I don't mind if DE decides to add in giving sentinels buff through Oberon's passive. To me it doesn't change my selection in companions (using smeeta for the charm ability).

Edited December 30, 2017 by VoidWraith