Oberons Passive

[Yperkeimenos]

On 12/26/2017 at 4:11 AM, Chipputer said:

The implication that there are no naturally occurring hostile environments that wouldn't allow life is actually absurd.

In the grand scheme of things,nothing is unnatural, since everything is a product of the universe we live in and its laws. The word Natural is used in the context of life and I've already commented on that, if you read my comments carefully enough. Intense radiation causes rampart mutations, aberrations and destroys life as we know it and the only reason this came up is because a fellow Tenno commented saying and i quote : 

On 12/20/2017 at 5:21 PM, GrazewoundZero said:

His current passive makes sense, as he's a nature-based warframe and kubrows/kavats have link-mods instead of standard ones.

to which i answered :

On 12/21/2017 at 5:12 PM, Yperkeimenos said:

I don't see how being nature based should prevent him from buffing sentinels as well. Besides ,by following your logic that he is nature based, his abilities shouldn't inflict radiation damage but elemental. Maybe toxin from the vines/plants his Hallowed ground spawns

He does spawn Fauna and Plants with his hallowed ground not radioactive waste, but that hasn't stopped DE from giving his ability radiation damage, which is in contrast to his green nature theme.So why shouldn't his passive also heal Sentinels. Besides Oberon is a spirit of the woods and King of the Fairies, have you ever heard of radioactive fairies? I haven't. So in keeping with his healing theme, his passive should also affect sentinels.

Edited December 27, 2017 by Yperkeimenos
grammar and syntax corrections

[Chipputer]

22 hours ago, Yperkeimenos said:

The word Natural is used in the context of life

No. It isn't. It's used in the context of the natural order of things. Your subjective interpretation of what the word means doesn't suddenly mean that your ideas for Oberon are correct-- not that it matters who is or isn't correct, here. Sentinels are not part of the natural order. According to the lore they're basically miniature sentients and the Sentient faction is as unnatural as it gets.

He affects animals with his passive. Animals. Part of nature.

Oberon has only started spawning plants because a bunch of people on the forums thought it looked cool in a trailer for Oberon Prime. Literally no other reason for it. It used to be a burning patch of carpet. Beyond all of that he used to be a paladin with a more natural theme to his looks and nothing else. His attack names even still reflect this. Smite? Hallowed Ground? Reckoning? Even still he's no king of the fairies nor is he connected to Titania in any conceivable manner. They chose the name based on his aesthetic.

In short? Stop applying subjective interpretation.

[shoopypit]

Why run with a sentinel with Oberon? With the hunter mod set available in bounties currently he is better off with the synergy that's brought with kavats and kubrows, especially with a rage build

[MuscleBeach]

15 minutes ago, shoopypit said:

Why run with a sentinel with Oberon? With the hunter mod set available in bounties currently he is better off with the synergy that's brought with kavats and kubrows, especially with a rage build

#1: Because pet maintenance is something I don't care to deal with. Pets are ranked to 30 then put into stasis until the next Riven mod forces me to take them out for a single mission.

#2: This is a farming game and I find running to everything to pick it up a hassle. This takes away from actually enjoying the game. 

Oberon's passive could make the pet indestructible and 1 shot anything in an AOE attack, even while they're in an invulnerable state. I still wouldn't use a pet over a sentinel due to the above two reasons. Not only would I have to deal with maintenance, I have to run around the 4 corners of the room (because most players tend to blow up entire rooms, not slash something up in front of them) or miss out on the loot. 

[shoopypit]

Pet maintenance just isn't all that difficult. It just costs credits. One 5-wave akkad run pays for like two days. I guess I'm used to just picking everything up. So if vacuum were inherent in every Warframe would you use a kubrows or kavat

 

[MuscleBeach]

1 hour ago, shoopypit said:

Pet maintenance just isn't all that difficult. It just costs credits. One 5-wave akkad run pays for like two days. I guess I'm used to just picking everything up. So if vacuum were inherent in every Warframe would you use a kubrows or kavat

 

And petting your pup. And something about boosting it over 100% with codes or whatever. It doesn't really matter that 1 mission on Akkad can pay for 2 days. It doesn't matter that 1 high stakes index run can pay for 5 days. It matters that my sentinel does much more for me with less hassle. I don't even equip the sentinel with a gun so it's not like it even contributes to combat. 

I would use smeeta as I think it has the most to do with loot or something? Maybe the crit one, whichever that is. Doesn't matter until I have a good reason to set sentinels aside. 

 

For the OP: Oberon's passive doesn't work on sentinels because he is about nature. Sentinels are robotic; not nature related. His passive before it was reworked was also for animals, not robots/MOA. They will not create a passive that doesn't fit the theme of the warframe, even if that means missing out on a cool idea. Maybe someday we'll get a robotic/transforming warframe that will do something with sentinels. 

For everyone saying they made his passive to make pets more viable, I highly doubt that. That's terrible design. They may have thought "And it also happens to promote pet use!" but I highly doubt they decided on this passive because of that. This passive stays true to his theme and the old passive he had, which had nothing to do with your pets. 

[Hypernaut1]

21 hours ago, Chipputer said:

Oberon has only started spawning plants because a bunch of people on the forums thought it looked cool in a trailer for Oberon Prime. Literally no other reason for it. It used to be a burning patch of carpet. 

I'm still mad about that. It should've been an Earth only thing. I much prefer the look (not the shape) of the old radiation carpet.

To me this is just another example of why the game shouldn't be designed by forum polls. The shrubbery is so cheesy IMO. I wish DE weren't with their first instinct is making it radiation.

I always saw Oberon as more of a paladin than a nature frame.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[Yperkeimenos]

On 12/27/2017 at 5:45 AM, Chipputer said:

No. It isn't. It's used in the context of the natural order of things. Your subjective interpretation of what the word means doesn't suddenly mean that your ideas for Oberon are correct-- not that it matters who is or isn't correct, here. Sentinels are not part of the natural order. According to the lore they're basically miniature sentients and the Sentient faction is as unnatural as it gets.

He affects animals with his passive. Animals. Part of nature.

Oberon has only started spawning plants because a bunch of people on the forums thought it looked cool in a trailer for Oberon Prime. Literally no other reason for it. It used to be a burning patch of carpet. Beyond all of that he used to be a paladin with a more natural theme to his looks and nothing else. His attack names even still reflect this. Smite? Hallowed Ground? Reckoning? Even still he's no king of the fairies nor is he connected to Titania in any conceivable manner. They chose the name based on his aesthetic.

In short? Stop applying subjective interpretation.

Even if what you say about Sentinels was true, lore wise, who said they aren't part of the natural order. They exist and operate within the boundaries of this universe. Who is subjective here? The sentients as well as the Sentinels were originally created by the Orokin,who are us humans, they didn't come from another reality. If we follow your interpretation of the word Natural, then not only living beings but anything within this universe is natural. In short Stop applying subjective interpretations.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Yperkeimenos

[Yperkeimenos]

18 hours ago, MuscleBeach said:

For the OP: Oberon's passive doesn't work on sentinels because he is about nature. Sentinels are robotic; not nature related. His passive before it was reworked was also for animals, not robots/MOA. They will not create a passive that doesn't fit the theme of the warframe, even if that means missing out on a cool idea. Maybe someday we'll get a robotic/transforming warframe that will do something with sentinels. 

And like i said time and time again if that was true and DE cared about frame themes that much, then his hallowed ground wouldn't spawn radioactive plants and fauna. It would make much more sense if it procced toxin damage, which is more in line with a natural theme. They can do whatever they want,whether it's in line with a theme or not and if that's the case,i'm asking for his passive to include Sentinels as well, so as not to exclude players who use them.

Edit: I really don't get players who try to justify this exclusion of sentinels,with the excuse that he is a nature themed frame ,as if DE would really care about themes, if they wanted to implement it.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Yperkeimenos

[MuscleBeach]

9 minutes ago, Yperkeimenos said:

And like i said time and time again if that was true and DE cared about frame themes that much, then his hallowed ground wouldn't spawn radioactive plants and fauna. It would make much more sense if it procced toxin damage, which is more in line with a natural theme. They can do whatever they want,whether it's in line with a theme or not and if that's the case,i'm asking for his passive to include Sentinels as well, so as not to exclude players who use them.

Edit: I really don't get players who try to justify this exclusion of sentinels,with the excuse that he is a nature themed frame ,as if DE would really care about themes, if they wanted to implement it.

And exactly what damage type would a king of faeries use for a mystical attack? Radioactive is a stretch to his nature theme (which is not his only theme) but I can assure you, in no lore in any universe ever does a faerie rule over mechanicals. Radiation damage was probably chosen for its proc effects, not the radiation specifically. I can even argue that his flower patch releases psychedelics that make enemies go crazy. Tadah, you have your nature themed reason to use radiation for its proc. I'm not disagreeing with you on the radiation, it is a stretch and toxin or even gas comes to mind first. The Radiation is geared more towards his mystical smiting theme rather than his nature theme. 

Yes they can do whatever they want. They're the developers. But you seriously think they (and other developers) don't care about themes? Go find me more examples outside of Oberon. And go read their tennogen requirements while you're at it if you think they don't care about themes. They don't just pick things because it'll sell or looks cool. They have thematic standards and everything must fit into the warframe universe properly. 

If you want a warframe that includes sentinels, start preaching for a mechanical/gyzmo/robotic/contraption/turret/sentinel based warframe where including sentinels makes sense. I'd be with you on this because a lot of the frames feel like DnD wizards in metal suits. I want more sci-fi themed warframes and slow down on the fantasy themed ones. But sentinels are not going to happen with Oberon. 

[Chipputer]

1 hour ago, Yperkeimenos said:

They exist and operate within the boundaries of this universe. Who is subjective here? The sentients as well as the Sentinels were originally created by the Orokin,who are us humans, they didn't come from another reality.

Operating within something and being inherently part of it are entirely different things.

Also, your logic would state that my computer is actually natural and not a man-made construct.

In short: Sentinels do not fit with Oberon's theme and you're never going to force them to.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Chipputer

[Yperkeimenos]

26 minutes ago, MuscleBeach said:

Radioactive is a stretch to his nature theme (which is not his only theme) but I can assure you, in no lore in any universe ever does a faerie rule over mechanicals

Can you point me at where exactly in warframe lore does it specifically state that Sentinels are purely mechanical? From my understanding they're semi organic. Tadah there's you reason for Oberon's passive to affect them., even if it is at half the strength.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Yperkeimenos

[Yperkeimenos]

34 minutes ago, MuscleBeach said:

And exactly what damage type would a king of faeries use for a mystical attack?

Elemental maybe? It would certainly make much more sense and be in better line with his nature theme.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Yperkeimenos

[Yperkeimenos]

And something else, if his passive doesn't affect Sentinels because they're not natural ,or not in line with his theme or whatever other reason some fellow Tenno, may come up with, then how is it that his renewal affects it? It shouldn't and since it does, his passive should as well.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Yperkeimenos

[MuscleBeach]

51 minutes ago, Yperkeimenos said:

Can you point me at where exactly in warframe lore does it specifically state that Sentinels are purely mechanical? From my understanding they're semi organic. Tadah there's you reason for Oberon's passive to affect them., even if it is at half the strength.

You're right, I don't know the lore behind sentinels but semi organic is no longer natural. But I didn't say organics, I said natural. By your logic, it should also apply to warframes. So sentinels are not natural animals and that's why it doesn't apply to them and we are getting way too nit picky and technical here for something that is really a simple explanation: It's not in his theme. 

41 minutes ago, Yperkeimenos said:

Elemental maybe? It would certainly make much more sense and be in better line with his nature theme.

So if his smite froze someone and sent out freezing orbs, that'd make more sense?

10 minutes ago, Yperkeimenos said:

And something else, if his passive doesn't affect Sentinels because they're not natural ,or not in line with his theme or whatever other reason some fellow Tenno, may come up with, then how is it that his renewal affects it? It shouldn't and since it does, his passive should as well.

Healing waves of energy flow outward from Oberon to his allies, regenerating health over time.

Oberon heals allies, not animals exclusively. If you want to argue "how is it that he can heal a robot like a summoned moa from my gear wheel?" (I have no idea if they actually can) then you have a fair point and my only response is, as a dev, you pick your battles. This game isn't exactly going for realism and we had to argue pretty in-depth to even reach this far. 

He has an affinity for animals.  "Oberon is one with nature and gains the following perks." A passive isn't an active ability choosing where it is and isn't applied. It's something that happens because of who they are, not what they do. His previous passive pacified wild animals. His new passive clearly sticks with that theme and excluding sentinels also sticks with it as he did not pacify infested previously. And his previous passive had nothing to do with your pet so it's not like that was a concept before. Anyone saying his passive is just a jab at sentinel users is just fabricating words out of the dev's mouths because I doubt that is the case considering what his old passive was and its previous theme, which they did not deviate from. 

[Yperkeimenos]

1 minute ago, MuscleBeach said:

o if his smite froze someone and sent out freezing orbs, that'd make more sense?

Yes

2 minutes ago, MuscleBeach said:

You're right, I don't know the lore behind sentinels but semi organic is no longer natural. But I didn't say organics, I said natural. By your logic, it should also apply to warframes. So sentinels are not natural animals and that's why it doesn't apply to them and we are getting way too nit picky and technical here for something that is really a simple explanation: It's not in his theme. 

You're right it should affect warframes as well, however as you stated and i agree,the game isn't going for realism, so they might as well make it so it affects sentinels too.

 

[Yperkeimenos]

20 minutes ago, MuscleBeach said:

Oberon heals allies, not animals exclusively. If you want to argue "how is it that he can heal a robot like a summoned moa from my gear wheel?" (I have no idea if they actually can) then you have a fair point and my only response is, as a dev, you pick your battles. This game isn't exactly going for realism and we had to argue pretty in-depth to even reach this far. 

Not only that but he can even heal Nekros Shadows,now that if it ain't unnatural and annoying since it depletes energy rapidly.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Yperkeimenos

[Yperkeimenos]

1 hour ago, Chipputer said:

Operating within something and being inherently part of it are entirely different things.

Also, your logic would state that my computer is actually natural and not a man-made construct.

In short: Sentinels do not fit with Oberon's theme and you're never going to force them to.

So a woolen shawl or a cotton blouse is unnatural because it is man made? By that logic the entire warframe universe is unnatural because it's made by the Orokin,who are humans. By that logic Oberon himself is unnatural , in which case why are we even having this discussion in the first place.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Yperkeimenos

[MuscleBeach]

 

33 minutes ago, Yperkeimenos said:

You're right it should affect warframes as well, however as you stated and i agree,the game isn't going for realism, so they might as well make it so it affects sentinels too.

I also stated that devs have to pick their battles with realism. You don't abandon a theme at a blatant level. You do it when things become too complicated. So far, this topic has only been complicated for you so I would say they made the right choice in not abandoning Oberon's themes of Animals (passive), nature (abilities), and mysticism (radiation damage). 

 

34 minutes ago, Yperkeimenos said:

37 minutes ago, MuscleBeach said:

o if his smite froze someone and sent out freezing orbs, that'd make more sense?

Yes

... I'm done here. I hope you learn to accept Oberon for who he is and not your idea of him. 

[Yperkeimenos]

35 minutes ago, MuscleBeach said:

 

... I'm done here. I hope you learn to accept Oberon for who he is and not your idea of him. 

That's why it's called a feedback, not all players agree with the way things are and DE has to be informed about it somehow. Hence this post. Who knows,they might even agree with me and fix it.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Yperkeimenos

[VoidWraith]

All this argument about his passive.... I think his passive makes perfect sense. And in a sense his abilities represent him being a guardian of nature. Sure he procs radiation, but his second ability spawns vegetation (grass, plants) and while it does proc radiation damage, it also acts to take off status effects and buff players as well as himself. His third ability even complements with his second.
His abilities only damage enemies, while benefiting himself and his team and pets.

I don't think his passive should touch or affect sentinels at all. 

 

Edited December 28, 2017 by VoidWraith

[Yperkeimenos]

2 hours ago, VoidWraith said:

Sure he procs radiation, but his second ability spawns vegetation (grass, plants) and while it does proc radiation damage, it also acts to take off status effects and buff players as well as himself.

Intense radiation,emanating from plants, that also cleanses, makes perfect sense and it's something quite common in the natural world. And i thought Radiation was harmful, silly me, how about we go for a swim near Fukushima. It will cleanse our bodies from any Disease (status) that might afflict it. Not only that but it'll make us stronger (Buff) as well. Even better, why don't we take a walk near the nuclear molten core, gamma radiation is so good for the skin.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Yperkeimenos

[MuscleBeach]

17 minutes ago, Yperkeimenos said:

Intense radiation,emanating from plants, that also cleanses, makes perfect sense and it's something quite common in the natural world. And i thought Radiation was harmful, silly me, how about we take a bath near Fukushima. It will cleanse our bodies from any Disease (status) that might afflict it. Not only that but it'll makes us stronger (Buff) as well.

Oberon Prime unleashes dogmatic retribution upon enemies, and supports allies with divine benevolence in equal measure. Featuring altered mod polarities for greater customization. 

[Yperkeimenos]

4 minutes ago, MuscleBeach said:

Oberon Prime unleashes dogmatic retribution upon enemies, and supports allies with divine benevolence in equal measure. Featuring altered mod polarities for greater customization. 

So how exactly does this invalidate what i said? Does he support allies with divine light? Does an angel come down from the sky cleansing and granting protection? And how is all that related at all with the radioactive plants.

[MuscleBeach]

23 minutes ago, Yperkeimenos said:

So how exactly does this invalidate what i said? Does he support allies with divine light? Does an angel come down from the sky cleansing and granting protection? And how is all that related at all with the radioactive plants.

Yeah, angels come down and cleanse you of disease. And when Ember casts world of fire, she's actually calling in a favor Satan owes her and he's actually the one burning everything. 

It was a stab at your bathing in Fukushima to cleanse yourself.... Why don't you go cast his abilities and see if it makes divine light or summons an angel to find your answer. Maybe, just maybe, he's able to make his plants radioactive with the same divine powers that he cleanses you with. 

Edited December 28, 2017 by MuscleBeach