Apostasy Prologue, what happens and what it could mean lore wise.

[Phobonaut]

1 hour ago, SingularEntity said:

Wasnt Ballas involved in the creation of the sentients? What if he hid Margulis or some part of her inside the sentient code before they were sent away. Upon return this part was singeled out as Natah, and sent back to the orokin, while hunhow continued to run the regular code; or at least some twisted version of it due to reprogramming themself again and again for so long.

He was involved in trying to get the creator of the Sentients and his entire corpus killed. But the other Executors thought the Sentients were a good idea and went along with it. Ballas was the only Orokin that really saw the dangers of the Sentients. Also, at that point in time the Sentients weren't very advanced. They were simple collections of "living" machines that could repair themselves and transform barren planets into Earth-like habitats.

Edited December 26, 2017 by Phobonaut

[SingularEntity]

The last paragraph of the detron imprint implies that it was a ploy and that Ballas and Perintol actually worked together to push this project through the board of excutors.

Quote

“You did better than I thought you would,” it was Ballas, the man, not the projection. “It would seem nobody truly knows they want a thing until you threaten to take it away.” He broke into a smile, “Wouldn’t you agree, Archimedian?”

By threatening the executors to make this project fail through the execution of Perintol, he got absolution from them to continue even though it did not comply with the seven principles, because the flaw did obviously not prevent the sentients from coming back.

Edited December 26, 2017 by SingularEntity

[(PSN)ForerunnerKnight]

Has anyone else noticed that both ballas and lotus converse as if you are not even there?

Edited December 26, 2017 by (PS4)ForerunnerKnight

[Helch0rn]

1 hour ago, Phobonaut said:

He was involved in trying to get the creator of the Sentients and his entire corpus killed. But the other Executors thought the Sentients were a good idea and went along with it. Ballas was the only Orokin that really saw the dangers of the Sentients. Also, at that point in time the Sentients weren't very advanced. They were simple collections of "living" machines that could repair themselves and transform barren planets into Earth-like habitats.

his disagreement was a ploy to get the others to agree

“You did better than I thought you would,” it was Ballas, the man, not the projection. “It would seem nobody truly knows they want a thing until you threaten to take it away.” He broke into a smile, “Wouldn’t you agree, Archimedian?”

[Phobonaut]

Whoops, I forgot about that part. Ignore my comment on Ballas and the Sentients then.

[jacobtron]

I think that this is going to be either a quest separate from the Sacrifice, or that this is the reason or build up for the sacrifice. I think that it can be a separate quest is cause of only one thing. the fact that it says Apostasy Prologue. but I am mostly thinking that it is the build up for the Sacrifice quest. 

[(PSN)A_Khanduit]

With something this Monumental, you'd thered be Teaser Trailers,  Dev hints and a general Media coverage of this. So why is it that the first mention of this I see is a Mogamu Playthrough on YouTube? Did I just miss something?

[SaferSaviour]

45 minutes ago, (PS4)TrueBenatic1 said:

With something this Monumental, you'd thered be Teaser Trailers,  Dev hints and a general Media coverage of this. So why is it that the first mention of this I see is a Mogamu Playthrough on YouTube? Did I just miss something?

Assuming this is the prequel for The Sacrifice, we've already had a lot of hype, a teaser trailer, and some press coverage.

[Blood_Elf_121]

did anyone get a transmission during their loading screen at any point after completing this quest???

[(PSN)A_Khanduit]

On January 2, 2018 at 2:22 PM, SaferSaviour said:

Assuming this is the prequel for The Sacrifice, we've already had a lot of hype, a teaser trailer, and some press coverage.

Well, we all know what assuming does. Anyway, this IS probably the case, though no official connection has been made. Several hints (including 1 from a certain DE Dev) have been made. I'd simply rather not rule anything out after already having waited over 2 years for Umbra.

[(PSN)Roca_Blade]

On 12/21/2017 at 7:09 PM, Ferah_Frithu said:

I'm pretty sure that the "Lotus" was a plan made by Ballas and Margulis all along. It was a plan to both "get rid of Margulis", as per the order of the 7 executors, but to keep Margulis and the Tenno safe/alive at the same time. Ballas couldn't simply let his loved one be killed like that, and Margulis couldn't leave the Tenno like that either.

They've erased Margulis' memory to a certain extent, much like they did with Ordis, and have used her to control, or rather pose as Natah, in order to bring down the sentient threat and control the Tenno at the same time. Why else would the Lotus suddenly decide to go with Ballas, after being disconnected from that obviously not-orokin-made pod? I think the pod contains Natah, or rather is Natah.

It was odd, though. Ballas, the one seemingly despising us the most, didn't even bother looking at us, while he was going towards the Lotus. The Lotus didn't seem to notice us either. As if we weren't really there.

Well, that's as far as my theory goes. Now my mind factory is on fire, regarding what "The Sacrifice" will be all about lol

That's impossible the lotus' original name was natah as stated in the quest natah

P.s. sorry for the spoilers for any who hasn't done the quest yet

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

The nature of that whole thing is so super questionable. Because of the helmet,  let's assume we were there at the same time. 

It would seem that lotus and ballas have something going on. There's plenty of speculations to be made. Just remember that Ballas is extremely powerful.

[Ferah_Frithu]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Roca253647 said:

That's impossible the lotus' original name was natah as stated in the quest natah

P.s. sorry for the spoilers for any who hasn't done the quest yet

Well, the entirety of the Sentient race is a creation of the Orokin, so nothing's impossible in that regard. Even more so, if you consider that Ballas did not kill/exterminate the Lotus, which implies she's actually not of sentient origin. You see, as the Sentients were the worst enemy to the Orokin, before the plague and the Tenno, Ballas wouldn't be foolish enough to free one of the most powerful Sentients and walk away with "it" hand in hand.

Ballas was/is one of the most powerful de facto rulers of the most advanced and most powerful civilization known in the Warframe universe. I truly doubt that he would free his certain demise from its shackles. Like I said, I believe that the pod/device, that the Lotus was strapped to, contained the sentient being known as Natah, and that the body itself is actually Margulis. This is further backed up by the fact that Hunhow himself is also depicted in the same way the Lotus is, wearing that very specific helmet. That's why I think that the helmet/device is the missing link, it's what the Sentients use to at all be able to appear "human-like" - They steal/borrow human bodies, and "infect" it with their sentient mind, using their technology. 

Nowhere in the lore did I read about Sentients ever having humanoid appearances. They were always depicted/described in their classical drone-like form, so why would Natah be the only Sentient that has an actual biological body?

 

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

Ballas must die. Nobody takes space mom away. Nobody.

[schilds]

11 hours ago, (Xbox One)Architect Prime said:

Because of the helmet,  let's assume we were there at the same time.

If it was a vision of past events in that location, then the helmet could still be where it was left behind.

[(PSN)Shade0217]

On 12/22/2017 at 9:06 PM, CaptainJLP said:

The warframe version of Batman vs Superman? Nah probably not. I'm already confused, Lotus is either Margulis in disguise or Margulis is Lotus in disguise. 

She's the chick playing a chick disguised as another chick.

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

52 minutes ago, (PS4)Shade0217 said:

She's the chick playing a chick disguised as another chick.

Tropic Warframe!

[(XBOX)TJC569]

Question:

If I recall the end of the Second Dream, doesn't the Lotus physically show up and put us in our orbiter pod? How did she do that if she was connected to the machine  Matrix style? Were we hallucinating or does she have some form of Transferance as well?

[KelsierSurvivor]

2 hours ago, (Xbox One)TJC569 said:

Question:

If I recall the end of the Second Dream, doesn't the Lotus physically show up and put us in our orbiter pod? How did she do that if she was connected to the machine  Matrix style? Were we hallucinating or does she have some form of Transferance as well?

I'm willing to bet that those cords were the only things she needed to have connected in order to still be controlled by Natah. I think that the cords, in a sense, were kinda like batteries for Natah. Or fragments of her body that kept Margulis under control. But since Ballas disconnected the cords, Natah lost control. 

Another way to put this is that the helmet could be fragment of Natah, but it doesn't have power without its batteries. This would explain why Margulis could take the helmet off without having to worry about anything. If the helmet was just a piece of a Sentient that didn't have any power, taking it off would be easy.

Edited January 25, 2018 by KelsierSurvivor

[arch111]

Is she still blind though.

[Wolfren-13]

I've seen a lot of people saying that perhaps Lotus is actually Margulis, but we know from the quests Natah and Chains of Harrow that Lotus is a sentient.

I know saying Chains of Harrow might not make sense but at one point Palladino calls Lotus "Sentient Queen". Since Palladino is able to acquire this information through more... supernatural means, she is likely to also be able to sense if there is to be a human body being puppeteered by the sentient which is Lotus. Perhaps Ballas is strengthening Margulis' memories within the Lotus? I have also seen a theory in which someone proposed that Lotus is actually pretending to be Margulis to deceive Ballas for some yet unknown purpose. But hey, that's just a theory.... A Game Theo-  OW! Who threw that?!

Edited January 29, 2018 by Wolfren-13
correction of grammar

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

Margulis is Natah's warframe. Transference ftw! 😂

[KelsierSurvivor]

10 hours ago, Wolfren-13 said:

I've seen a lot of people saying that perhaps Lotus is actually Margulis, but we know from the quests Natah and Chains of Harrow that Lotus is a sentient.

I know saying Chains of Harrow might not make sense but at one point Palladino calls Lotus "Sentient Queen". Since Palladino is able to acquire this information through more... supernatural means, she is likely to also be able to sense if there is to be a human body being puppeteered by the sentient which is Lotus. Perhaps Ballas is strengthening Margulis' memories within the Lotus? I have also seen a theory in which someone proposed that Lotus is actually pretending to be Margulis to deceive Ballas for some yet unknown purpose. But hey, that's just a theory.... A Game Theo-  OW! Who threw that?!

At least someone agrees with me on the whole "Puppeteering" thing. I used the phrase "Infesting" or "Taking Control Of" or "Reviving and utilizing", etc. But I personally think that this makes the most sense. 

Margulis was still killed at the ceremony thing or whatever you want to call that, (The Orokin sure found it enjoyable when someone died, so it might as well have been a ceremony) but Natah took her... uh... messed up remains (I don't have a clue on what methods the Orokin used to kill her.) and kinda nursed her back to life via special Sentient methods and took over her body so she could use a familiar face to guide the Tenno with. Or maybe the bit about her not actually being killed and somehow someone sent in a look-alike to be killed in Margulis's place. That's another theory that I found. Ballas wanted to save her, but for some unexplained reason he wanted to have Natah take control of her body. This was in response to the dialogue from the Sacrifice trailer, but it doesn't make much sense to me.

[Wolfren-13]

On ‎1‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 9:42 AM, KelsierSurvivor said:

At least someone agrees with me on the whole "Puppeteering" thing. I used the phrase "Infesting" or "Taking Control Of" or "Reviving and utilizing", etc. But I personally think that this makes the most sense. 

Margulis was still killed at the ceremony thing or whatever you want to call that, (The Orokin sure found it enjoyable when someone died, so it might as well have been a ceremony) but Natah took her... uh... messed up remains (I don't have a clue on what methods the Orokin used to kill her.) and kinda nursed her back to life via special Sentient methods and took over her body so she could use a familiar face to guide the Tenno with. Or maybe the bit about her not actually being killed and somehow someone sent in a look-alike to be killed in Margulis's place. That's another theory that I found. Ballas wanted to save her, but for some unexplained reason he wanted to have Natah take control of her body. This was in response to the dialogue from the Sacrifice trailer, but it doesn't make much sense to me.

I'm sorry, what I said came out wrong. I don't think Lotus is controlling or puppeteering Margulis. If I recall correctly from Chains of Harrow, Lotus and Palladino were having a slightly heated discussion on why Lotus didn't know about Rell. Palladino said that the reason why Lotus didn't know about Rell is because she gained her knowledge of Margulis from the dreams of the tenno (whatever that means). If she had Margulis' body, was conspiring with Ballas, or something similar; why would she gain knowledge from the Tenno's dreams?

Edit: Rewatched the chains of harrow quest and Palladino says "Great sentient queen, forgive me, but what you are, what you've made of yourself... is merely drawn from the dreams of these divine children. You are not she. You are not... Margulis."

I think Palladino would know and mention if Lotus was controlling or in possession of Margulis' body.

Edited January 30, 2018 by Wolfren-13
Additional Information

[(XBOX)TJC569]

1 hour ago, Wolfren-13 said:

Edit: Rewatched the chains of harrow quest and Palladino says "Great sentient queen, forgive me, but what you are, what you've made of yourself... is merely drawn from the dreams of these divine children. You are not she. You are not... Margulis."

I think Palladino would know and mention if Lotus was controlling or in possession of Margulis' body.

So Space Mom read our dreams and forged a personality from it? Hope she didnt see what else I might have been dreaming about for however long the Operator was asleep.