Gara is Abysmal After Update 22.8.2

[YUNoJump]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)Orcus Imperium said:

uuuuuh, problem; snowglobe is a level 3 power....MV is an "ult" or level 4 power. it should in fact be much stronger than SG, especially vitrify doesn't stack on itself.

i went into the sim today to test her out after the nerf...and my snowglobe can tank everything a level 115 corrupt bombard can throw at it. MV? not even a single rocket and 3 segments were lost. she was an amazing alternative to frost and limbo, AND her MV had other uses beyond simply being a wall....it's borderline useless now for defensive use.

The "powers in higher slots should be better" rule is much more of a guideline in Warframe than in other games. There are countless frames that are defined by their second or third skill rather than their 4th. Frost is the first thing that comes to mind, also Loki, Chroma, Oberon, Nyx, Wukong. Heck, Mirage's most famous ability is her 1. 

[(XBOX)Onyx Schnee]

5 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

The "powers in higher slots should be better" rule is much more of a guideline in Warframe than in other games. There are countless frames that are defined by their second or third skill rather than their 4th. Frost is the first thing that comes to mind, also Loki, Chroma, Oberon, Nyx, Wukong. Heck, Mirage's most famous ability is her 1. 

even so, as a 4th power, specifically a defensive power....MV comes off as.....severely underpowered after its nerf. rendering it useless.

[LuckyCharm]

MV needs a slight numbers tweak sure, but having it immortal was broken. With -range mods you could make yourself a tiny pillar of immortality for an extended duration that extends just over the target. Over a minute of enemies not being able to attack it was very game breaking whether you agree with me or not. And with larger ranges? Wheres the gameplay if none of your team can get attacked?

[NinjasPlay4Fun]

I agree with you, so I created a topic with suggestions that I believe would not only bring Gara back into the game, as they would make it one of the top Warframes and fun to play

 

My topic link (if ur interested  : https://forums.warframe.com/topic/910944-the-true-glass-warframe-gara-more-suggestions/

[(PSN)MrNishi]

17 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

Frost also has his armour-stripping Avalanche, but if you try and play a high-level mission with Frost and do anything other than hide in globes, then you die incredibly quickly. His entire kit benefits from not moving around, he has absolutely nothing to defend himself without staying still or using the "kill enemies before they hit you" strategy. He is THE defence frame. ...

I strongly disagree

Ice Wave Impedance slowing the enemy still allows Frost to be mobile and not have to solely hid in a Snow Globe even 2hrs+ in MoT survival or 60+ Waves on Aten

Where Snowglobe by itself starts taking so much damage without enemies being slowed that you are just spam casting to keep the 3 sec Invulnerability window up every 3 secs.

CC vs Defensive Bolstering

You can still be mobile with Ice Wave Impedance, more so than Globe Migration traveling. /Quote reply

 

On the topic of Gara Mass Vitrify:

I believe Gara should have been able to bolster the wall once it has been fortified. 

Like casting Spectrorage on the wall creates Reflecting Mirrors on the wall to reflect back the damage at enemies. Mitigating the damage to Mass Vitrify and increasing DPS.

Although I believe Spectrorage as a whole needed the Mirror damage threshold (Health) to be based on a percentage of the targets health. 

(This would allow Spectrorage to scale with enemy level and if allowed to be placed on Mass Vitrify would allow Mass Vitrify to last much longer while also dealing damage)

Edited January 25, 2018 by (PS4)MrNishi

[MuscleBeach]

12 hours ago, (Xbox One)Orcus Imperium said:

uuuuuh, problem; snowglobe is a level 3 power....MV is an "ult" or level 4 power. it should in fact be much stronger than SG, especially vitrify doesn't stack on itself.

10 hours ago, (Xbox One)Orcus Imperium said:

even so, as a 4th power, specifically a defensive power....MV comes off as.....severely underpowered after its nerf. rendering it useless.

Who says it's a defensive ability? You? Last I checked it's a damage buff with a defensive perk to it, just like Frost's Avalanche. It's more similar to Frost's Avalanche than his Snow Globe so maybe you're comparing it to the wrong skill for balance comparisons. Considering it suffers from the same dilemmas as Avalanche, you go for strength (damage buff) or you go for wall range duration (CC), I'd say this further reinforces my point. Stop comparing to to Snow Globe. If that's what you want it to be, fine, but that's not the skill it's most similar to to compare it to. And it appears the devs don't want it to be either. Its defense suffers from similar issues to Nezha's Warding Halo vs Rhino's Iron Skin. Why is this? Because it's not a purely defensive skill and would also be a direct copy if it was. 

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

4 minutes ago, MuscleBeach said:

12 hours ago, (Xbox One)Orcus Imperium said:

uuuuuh, problem; snowglobe is a level 3 power....MV is an "ult" or level 4 power. it should in fact be much stronger than SG, especially vitrify doesn't stack on itself.

10 hours ago, (Xbox One)Orcus Imperium said:

even so, as a 4th power, specifically a defensive power....MV comes off as.....severely underpowered after its nerf. rendering it useless.

Who says it's a defensive ability?

This sounds a bit silly. 

It's offensive purpose only comes from casting her 1st ability making it the additional effect.

Primarily the skills defends by crystalizing enemies and holding enemies outside.

[MuscleBeach]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

This sounds a bit silly. 

It's offensive purpose only comes from casting her 1st ability making it the additional effect.

Primarily the skills defends by crystalizing enemies and holding enemies outside.

I hope you read more than what you quoted of me. Octavia's existence in Warframe is silly, Hydroid summoning an actual Kraken in a puddle of water is silly. Being silly doesn't mean anything. MV holds people outside but not very well. Just like Avalanche doesn't hold people outside its range very well but the people that were in range? Yeah, they're pretty similar skills. One is damage buff the other is armor reduction. One is damage AOE the other is a weak wall and damage synergy option. Just because there's a barrier, doesn't mean it's more similar to Snow Globe. It has much more in common with Avalanche. 

16 minutes ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

It's offensive purpose only comes from casting her 1st ability making it the additional effect.

Are you unaware of the damage buff that is applied to anyone that gets covered in glass? 

Edited January 25, 2018 by MuscleBeach

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

6 minutes ago, MuscleBeach said:

I hope you read more than what you quoted of me. Octavia's existence in Warframe is silly, Hydroid summoning an actual Kraken in a puddle of water is silly. Being silly doesn't mean anything. MV holds people outside but not very well. Just like Avalanche doesn't hold people outside its range very well but the people that were in range? Yeah, they're pretty similar skills. One is damage buff the other is armor reduction. One is damage AOE the other is a weak wall and damage synergy option. Just because there's a barrier, doesn't mean it's more similar to Snow Globe. It has much more in common with Avalanche. 

Don't take it personally when I said silly. I'm not trying to offend you. 

All I'm saying is that it doesn't make sense as a primarily offensive move it you need 2 abilities to make it work. On its own the ability rests as a defensive move. Not a very good one, but we can't deny that it's defensive.

[(PSN)lhbuch]

After years in this game I started to be afraid everytime the nerf squad start to complain about anything because most of the time,( nerf = make something useless) here.

Edited January 25, 2018 by (PS4)lhbuch

[MuscleBeach]

1 minute ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

Don't take it personally when I said silly. I'm not trying to offend you. 

All I'm saying is that it doesn't make sense as a primarily offensive move it you need 2 abilities to make it work. On its own the ability rests as a defensive move. Not a very good one, but we can't deny that it's defensive.

I'm not offended.

It's not just a defensive skill. That's the point I'm making. You only see the offense in pressing 1 on it but you seem to be neglecting the damage buff applied to anyone that gets solidified by it. Instead of upfront damage, it has a wall with synergy. Instead of armor reduction, it has a damage buff. That's the only differences between it and Avalanche. There are a TON more differences between it and Snow Globe. The only similarity is that they are both barriers but that doesn't mean being a barrier is MV's main purpose. Even if you wanted to go that route, it makes sense to be weak because it can physically hold back melee while Globe can't. 

[MuscleBeach]

Just now, (PS4)lhbuch said:

After years in this game I started to be afraid everytime the nerf squad start to complain about anything because most of the time, nerf = make something useless here.

I'm not part of the nerf squad. I think MV needs a buff. What I don't agree with is the buffs that everyone is asking for, just trying to make another Snow Globe. Ask for the right things: Ask for 3 second invulnerability and damage absorption window that adds to its health like every other barrier and shield in the game has. Ask for a damage buff so that it's more useful offensively. Don't ask for ways to make it an invincible wall. 

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

16 minutes ago, MuscleBeach said:

I'm not part of the nerf squad. I think MV needs a buff. What I don't agree with is the buffs that everyone is asking for, just trying to make another Snow Globe. Ask for the right things: Ask for 3 second invulnerability and damage absorption window that adds to its health like every other barrier and shield in the game has. Ask for a damage buff so that it's more useful offensively. Don't ask for ways to make it an invincible wall. 

Dude that's cool. I'm with you on that bro.

I'm not about having DE Nerf something just so players can request the same exact thing in another way, but I do think that Garas wall is lacking.

I've suggested perhaps splinter storms damage reduction be applied to the Wall as long as Gara is within it's boundaries. Very different from Frost considering he's not confines to protecting his barriers.

Or perhaps Garas wall absorbs some of the health of the enemies crystalized by it when they're killed. That's a very active solution.

I just wanted to point out that yes, Garas 4th is lacking and should be addressed. I just think that there are unique way of doing so.

Also to add, there's nothing wrong with asking for nerfs. Sometimes things need to be nerfed if they trivialize the game. Garas original wall did just that. I don't judge anyone for being a part of a "Nerf Squad".

[MuscleBeach]

35 minutes ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

Dude that's cool. I'm with you on that bro.

I'm not about having DE Nerf something just so players can request the same exact thing in another way, but I do think that Garas wall is lacking.

I've suggested perhaps splinter storms damage reduction be applied to the Wall as long as Gara is within it's boundaries. Very different from Frost considering he's not confines to protecting his barriers.

Or perhaps Garas wall absorbs some of the health of the enemies crystalized by it when they're killed. That's a very active solution.

I just wanted to point out that yes, Garas 4th is lacking and should be addressed. I just think that there are unique way of doing so.

Also to add, there's nothing wrong with asking for nerfs. Sometimes things need to be nerfed if they trivialize the game. Garas original wall did just that. I don't judge anyone for being a part of a "Nerf Squad".

And I like both of those suggestions a lot, especially the second one :)  There's nothing wrong with making the wall more durable, as long as it's not in a set it and forget it way like Snow Globe. I see Gara as an offensive warframe who has defensive perks. I would call her abilities, including MV, more of a field disruption (like mag's abilities) rather than a barrier/wall. I think both your suggestions supplement what I perceive her as in a thematic way as well as improve her in a way that everyone who likes Snow Globe just so happens to want. I just don't like how people keep comparing it to Snow Globe, which is really what I was trying to point out this whole time. When you compare a skill to another similar skill (and imo, the wrong skill at that) your ideas get distorted on what kind of buffs the skill needs/should be. 

[Akimbo]

Just came back after quitting because of that terrible nerf. Why/how is this not fixed yet?

[(PSN)MegaSilk0]

1 hour ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

Dude that's cool. I'm with you on that bro.

I'm not about having DE Nerf something just so players can request the same exact thing in another way, but I do think that Garas wall is lacking.

I've suggested perhaps splinter storms damage reduction be applied to the Wall as long as Gara is within it's boundaries. Very different from Frost considering he's not confines to protecting his barriers.

Or perhaps Garas wall absorbs some of the health of the enemies crystalized by it when they're killed. That's a very active solution.

I just wanted to point out that yes, Garas 4th is lacking and should be addressed. I just think that there are unique way of doing so.

Also to add, there's nothing wrong with asking for nerfs. Sometimes things need to be nerfed if they trivialize the game. Garas original wall did just that. I don't judge anyone for being a part of a "Nerf Squad".

Yeah, some things do need to be nerfed. Despite that, Gara's 4 was definitely not one of those abilities. It had plenty of flaws, it was quite energy hungry and had no cover from the top. The timer wasn't even long enough to be incredibly broken when you consider how long the missions you'd use her in were.

At this point, even Limbo who was garbage a year ago would be better, because he does the exact same thing she did, locking down an area for just over a minute and taking away the ability to do anything from any enemies caught within. If he does the exact same thing she did then what happened with her to make her get nerfed?

[MuscleBeach]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)squishystar10 said:

Yeah, some things do need to be nerfed. Despite that, Gara's 4 was definitely not one of those abilities. It had plenty of flaws, it was quite energy hungry and had no cover from the top. The timer wasn't even long enough to be incredibly broken when you consider how long the missions you'd use her in were.

At this point, even Limbo who was garbage a year ago would be better, because he does the exact same thing she did, locking down an area for just over a minute and taking away the ability to do anything from any enemies caught within. If he does the exact same thing she did then what happened with her to make her get nerfed?

Limbo is not a new warframe, that is why he's not getting any attention right now. Gara is. Not everything is worked on the immediate second it's realized. I'm sure Limbo will be a part of the warframe ability audit and probably Gara too. Abilities like Stasis/snow globe/old MV should be kept to a minimum. 

 

It had no cover from the top? 1, how many attacks come from the top for it to matter? 2, you can jump in the air and cast it and it will cover everything below, making the opening up top not matter. 

Energy hungry? This was the only skill you needed energy for, being an impenetrable wall. Which also leads into the next point:

Timer wasn't long? I don't remember what the timer was but when you don't need more than one skill, it's easy to make it spam-able. If I can spam Avalanche on my frost prime 6 times before running out of energy on a Range Duration build, without flow or energy orbs or pads or a trinity/harrow/zenurik, I don't think having to recast in the comfort of your impenetrable wall is an issue. 

 

I think people need to reread this:

Gara is still relatively new as far as Warframes are concerned but since her release, we’ve found (and many players have found) that an invulnerable and almost impenetrable barrier doesn’t allow for a very engaging gameplay experience. We know that other Warframes also have Powers with similar issues, but adding a shattering component to Mass Vitrify is a change we could easily implement that is consistent with Gara’s glass theme while also making Mass Vitrify more interactive.

With these new changes, we can tweak the absorption and explosion values as necessary to make sure Mass Vitrify is both fun and effective. Please keep your feedback constructive and let us know what you think after you’ve had a chance to test these new changes.