Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited

[-Bv-Senju_Knight]

 disappointing with ember change because she is only good under 30 level, u cant even bring her to sortie and now range is Nerf.
enemy will one shot ember before she get in close range.

Edited February 3, 2018 by -Bv-Senju_Knight

[ljmadruga]

Personally, here’s my take on the changes

Ash- Great

Atlas- Add a synergy between Landslide and Tectonics where he can make the bulwark deal damage in an AOE and you’re golden.

Banshee- FINALLY

Chroma- I’d like to see Vex Armor be refreshable so that Allies that weren’t in range for the initial cast don’t have to wait.

Ember- The additional energy drain is not really necessary. Increasing the damage and bringing down the range over time is enough.

Gara- Don’t really use her much. It’s a nice touch to her wall though.

Mag- Overall Ok, will need to test in game.

Volt- HALLELUJAH 

Zephyr- Maybe rethink the new ability? So far so good, but I’d like to see a way for Zephyr to have some sustained uninterrupted flight. Also, tornadoes should probably get a small speed buff. Also, if the tornadoes are going to be bigger, I’d like to make them wider, not taller.

Edited February 3, 2018 by ljmadruga

[NovahX]

So far, the changes are looking pretty good, with few exceptions:

First up is: Atlas.

The changes that are mentioned in notes above are looking pretty great, but there are still troubles that concern me, most notable being Rumblers. My issue with them is simple: Scalability.

At star-chart levels (level 40-50), Rumblers more or less can handle enemies, until it falls flat when comes to higher level. To remedy that, I suggest:

• Rumblers use equipped melee mods to their attacks
• Melee combo counter

Yes, I am aware that they also pull aggro on themselves, but lets be honest: is their pull aggro even good enough?

Ember.

There are people who use Ember for "trash clearing", but there are also people who use Ember for Crowd Control aka "Firequake". By having the WoF range eventually get cut in half, it hinders the effectiveness of Crowd Control. I get where you're going at with the direction you're heading with, but do please think about the players who use Ember for Crowd Control.

Yes, I am aware of Ember 2, Accelerant, but that is soft CC, and the stun lasts only few moments, while Firequake keeps them knocked down more consistently.

Well, that is it for the moment, the reworks are looking good so far. Here's to for good update!

[MrJxt]

Skip to 1:02:00 (1 hr & 2 min) mark

 

The showcase of the Zephyr rework is on point imo.

Tailwind:

-The travel distance and speed improvements look perfect.

-Combining divebomb with tailwind is good.

-Charging tailwind to hover is a nice addition. I'm looking forward to seeing the hover animation.

 

"Air Burst - New ability replacing Dive Bomb. A projectile that causes an AoE burst on contact, ragdolling enemies. Can be fired into Tornadoes to make them bigger. "

-Seems alright, extra CC and synergy with Tornado is nice. I hope the aoe range is decent along the lines of base  >10m.

 

Tornado:

-Better at keeping enemies captured in a tornado is good, which means less enemies getting scattered around.

-Hitting a tornado will deal damage to all enemies trapped inside. I was expecting the damage to get split between all enemies trapped but it actually deals full damage to EVERY enemy. Very good!

-Tornadoes spawn around the your aim reticle. This is good and gives you more control of where you want them to appear. This is actually very good in smaller areas because you can now create choke points instead of relying on enemy positioning.

-The closest tornado will slowly follow your aim reticle. I think this is a controversial mechanic because it can be both useful and annoying. You can control a tornado and place it in a more strategic area but in some cases it can also block you and your squad's line of fire against enemies further away.

-Casting air blast on a tornado will make it bigger. Cool, hopefully it'll increase the damage and range of the tornado.

 

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, AcceptYourDeath said:

I am not sure if you mean what I think you do! You are probably talking about a bug where occasionally some enemys remain lying on the ground after a tornado has spit them out. That is not tied to Tornados duration, it`s just a bug where the AI completly derps out for some reason leaving enemys behind doing nothing, if tornados are active or not.

So we are simply talking about exploiting a bug, this has nothing to do with the intent crowd control of tornados. Normally enemys stand up again after leaving Tornados, and they will fix this problem by keeping enemys inside torndos anyhow. 

I'm not sure if this is a bug, since this has been around since I started playing Zephyr (early October), and enemies have ALWAYS gotten up after my tornadoes disappeared, unless they were stuck in very peculiar places.

[(XBOX)GuardianFafnir]

As another option to fixing the issue with Ember WoF I would suggest

 - a major decrease in WoF Base Damage from it's current damage to 1/4 Base Damage. However the damage will now scale based on health and armor of the enemies decreasing damage as the enemy health gets lower.

 - Increasing the status proc chance by 15%

 - Have the drain slowly increase over time, over the course of 60s to a max drain at 175% efficiency be 2 Energy Per second.

 - Keep Range as is but make it so that the range max caps at 195%

This way the lower level missions and defenses won't be completely overrun by afk seeing as the time to kill will drastically drop. However it will still provide a CC thats still effective and viable. This will also keep her as a viable late to end game option and solo option when paired with her Firequake Augment.

[Averath]

1 hour ago, Oz-Salem said:

Obviously dont know ember. She can go against level 80's at her max power. I run sorties almost exclusively with ember prime. WOF is the reason one plays her aoe paired with a status effect weapon are fantastic and tear down the greatest foes. Please if you do not play ember enough to know her tolerances you have no room to recommend a rework on an ability you cannot control. I am sorry i just could not sit back and see you bash Ember in such a way. Be well Tenno and always improve your understanding of your warframe. 

 

I have never once seen someone use Ember's WOF for the actual damage it causes in a Sortie. It's always the CC that it offers. DE is nerfing the ability because of the damage it deals to low level enemies making the content there trivial. This ability doesn't scale well as far as damage goes, especially vs enemies with a lot of effective health. This change is not going to help that, and she still suffers with a lack of survivability. If the ability stays as it is right now it's going to get nerfed again in the future because this will not solve the ability's inherent problem, which is that it requires no feedback. You press 4 and that's all there is to it. Damage happens automatically. You do not have to give any input for it. It just passively happens.

[Fire2box]

4 hours ago, LSG501 said:

Does no one else see an issue with needing to do a very specific approach to killing the enemies on a very specific map using specific frame(s) multiple times to reach a daily cap.... while playing the game normally nets you about 20-30k if you're lucky....maybe it's me but I like to mix up my gaming during the time I'm in the game...

No... leave inaros alone, don't even think about asking for any changes to him because it will just end up being a nerf.

they whined about banshee being nerfed in reference to a build like "brozimes easy focus farm". I made it known 3 other war frames can earn focus cap faster. Focus farming is an issue and until DE "fixes" it then that's literally all players can do apart from just passively earn like up to 5% of daily focus if they use lens at all. 

[(XBOX)DevilishSix]

DE Good job on nerfing Ember when what she really needs is a buff.  She is not vialble on enemies past 30 or past 50 with corr proj.  Her only viable ability is WOF and you reduce the range.  That is dumb as she can't take shots as it was with ranged CC, now she will be going down like ragdoll constantly.   Time to shelve that frame and you will lose alot of sales on Prime Unvaulting of Ember because of this poor decision.  Who would buy her when she will be unusable, lol.

[Fire2box]

4 hours ago, curather said:

What is going to stop them from nerfing these frames to stop keeping up the stealth buff?  I run Ivara every day for rep in adaro and it takes me around 10 minutes to run.  This is a significant time investment to get max focus every for over 250 days!

community backlash like IPS 2.5? 

[MrJxt]

Then don't use the charge mechanic? The distance and speed improvements fit your criteria for aerial movement.

32 minutes ago, Caelward said:

 When she stops moving, she dies. This is even more painful when you realize that turbulence is the most vulnerable to weapons fire from underneath. It's the constant travel that keeps a player safe.

Turbulence? Add more range?

[Amazerath]

Ember and Banshee

Both these frames need improvements to their kits, not just nerfs to the few things they are actually good at. Ember has a bunch of damage powers with no synergy whatsoever and a play style that is entirely focused on World on Fire. Banshee has interesting powers but all of them preform poorly. Both frames have to rely on augments and highly specialized builds to be able to compete with what some of the more recent frames can do right out of the box. Their biggest problem is being outdated.

[Fire2box]

3 minutes ago, (Xbox One)DevilishSix said:

DE Good job on nerfing Ember when what she really needs is a buff.  She is not vialble on enemies past 30 or past 50 with corr proj.  Her only viable ability is WOF and you reduce the range.  That is dumb as she can't take shots as it was with ranged CC, now she will be going down like ragdoll constantly.   Time to shelve that frame and you will lose alot of sales on Prime Unvaulting of Ember because of this poor decision.  Who would buy her when she will be unusable, lol.

kinda agree in some regard. if this change goes trough it should have damage reduction attached to it so she can actually be sneezed on and not die be snuffed out. 

[Averath]

One of the claims you make about the Chroma change are making his abilities consistent. If you're going to make his abilities consistent, than can you actually make his abilities fully consistent, rather than partially consistent? Alter his augment and make all of his buffs stick to party members like every other buff, so they're fully consistent! That will allow you to rework his augments to actually enhance his playstyle, rather than simply make it so that he's consistent with the rest of the game.

 

If you're so insistent on having people stay within range of Chroma to gain his buffs, then tie it to affinity range instead of an arbitrary number influenced by power range. As it is right now, Chroma is the antithesis of Warframe design philosophy, as Warframe is a game about being mobile and not being tied to a single location. Team members being required to hug Chroma to gain advantage of his buff are contrary to that design philosophy, and that can be addressed at the same time as these changes, and ***should*** be addressed at the same time. Sure Chroma needs a thorough look, but if you're going to make him consistent, then actually make him consistent!

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

1 hour ago, ShogunGunshow said:

So the answer for "how do we improve petrify? No one likes it" was "make everything reliant on it."

Not that it was obnoxiously bright, irritating to use, and slows you down, oh no! The problem was you didn't tie enough garbage into it.

Want to make Petrify good? It's real easy - in fact, you already did it, on another frame, in this very preview! Make it work like Chroma's new, free movement Spectral Scream! And make it so the effect isn't an ungodly huge whirlwind that obscures everything, but a horizontal glow extending a few inches to either side of the character's head at eye level.

Tying everything into Petrify when Petrify itself is genuinely unpleasant to use doesn't solve anything.

Nah an aura is better...

[ShogunGunshow]

39 minutes ago, atejas said:

idk if zephyr is even fixable at this point.

It'd be really sick if they tried.

[Fire2box]

55 minutes ago, (PS4)azul86sapphire said:

Make use of Accelerant to briefly stun enemies. Not only will this give you time to close the gap, but it will increase the fire damage further.

I'd rather use the augment mod for WoF for the 100% chance to knock them down then use even more energy. The only reason to use Accelerant after the change is if DE is wrong and Ember WoF isn't viable for higher level enemies like 50-80, stage 1, 2 sorties, etc. 

 

[(XBOX)DevilishSix]

2 minutes ago, Fire2box said:

kinda agree in some regard. if this change goes trough it should have damage reduction attached to it so she can actually be sneezed on and not die be snuffed out. 

Her one and three are garbage as is and two is a damage augment.  Her only viable ability is her four and it helps keep her alive.  She is a weak frame that isn't even end game viable, but she gets a nerf?  No offense but this is the kind of nerfing Bungie has done in Destiny that drove gamers away.  Hay but what do I know, I am only a gamer that enjoys and supports your game?  

[Vyrielle]

So far all the changes in here look like steps in the right direction.  I only have a few concerns.

1: Ember's changes for the most part don't do anything to her besides take away from her one role at the moment.  While the same thing was done to Banshee, she at least has another role in her sonar buff, and also was given a gift in return in the form of a new augment for her 4.  I like the premise of what you want to do to Ember, but she is basically getting very little in return for her loss of "murder all level 30s".  She wants a bone...throw her a bone.

2: While I understand it's impossible to tweak all the not-so-great warframes, one of the really lackluster ones was completely unaddressed: Titania.  Aside from her 4, which is fantastic, the rest of her kit is wonky at best, which is I'm guessing why she's been overlooked for this.  And considering the warframes released before (Inaros) and after (Nidus) and since (Octavia, Harrow, Gara, who incidentally did get looked at here) she stands out as this odd neglected child.  Her 2 is an insane energy investment for what little it does and her 3 has a habit of flying into the stratosphere, therefore losing all CC.  Her 1 is okay, although has the same problem as her 3.  But at least we're not relying on those enemies staying put to CC other enemies.  My recommendations are make her 2 a small AOE instead of a single target.  Spending a moderate-large amount of energy on mediocre buffs you have to collect one at a time is tedious.  Getting a bunch of buffs for one cast feels much better.  Her 3 I'd like to see tethered to the ground or nearby objects or really anything to it has some level of consistency.  Side note for this, having her augment change the tether from the ground to following her around would make sense with the melee buff it gives and make the augment more interesting and useful than a simple passive melee damage buff.

[Leilynn]

If Mag is CC, then Polarize and Crush should reflect that, not more damage and shield (which Polarize already provides). She already has good damage through Magnetize. And pull is also lackluster as it only makes enemies hard to shoot, and its CC "duration" isn't long.

[S0V3REiGN]

Overall I like the changes but I still feel that the upgrades for Ash are just not enough. First of all Shuriken its an outdated damage ability literally brings nothing to the table, I can kill faster with any weapon I equip, I'll even go as far as to say my sentinels weapons are more deadly. Its been mentioned on countless threads but please give it some form of utility like impaling enemies to walls or something else. Having to equip an augment mod to bandage the issue is not the correct way to go about things.

Can teleport be made free roam? Or at least target objects?

Bladestorm is a hot mess and I truly do appreciate you revisiting it and while you are definitely headed in the right direction there is stuff that always gets overlooked; Why do some melee mods affect its attack speed? Like Fury, Spoiled Strike and Quickening (when channeling with a melee weapon) but NOT beserker? Why is attack speed affected by Volt's speed? Are mods outside of Steel Charge even supposed to work with bladestorm to begin with? What is the benefit of me joining my clones in attacking enemies? Will the enemies at least die faster if I join in? If its all for show then don't even bother adding the join in mechanic, because it will lose its novelty really quickly. Can the marking ability be made a little easier? 

I think we as players do become attached to some warframes and think at times that we own them. With that said I truly feel like Ash gets glossed over with each update and when he does get changes I feel like the changes are coming from someone that  doesn't spend any real amount of time using the warframe. Again, I like the changes but I think more can be done with him, mostly in the utility department, cleaning up how bladestorm works.

[Fire2box]

5 minutes ago, (Xbox One)DevilishSix said:

Her one and three are garbage as is and two is a damage augment.  Her only viable ability is her four and it helps keep her alive.  She is a weak frame that isn't even end game viable, but she gets a nerf?  No offense but this is the kind of nerfing Bungie has done in Destiny that drove gamers away.  Hay but what do I know, I am only a gamer that enjoys and supports your game?  

Hey her 3 is viable on lephantis and it's plauge star clone. Also i'm not a DE employee, I'm also just a WF player. which is why I would of preferred to have her get damage reduction on using her 4 since now it's going to be a smaller range ablity based on building up power. 

[oSPoJellyz]

I'm an Ember main since I started to play WF, and honestly I'm happy that they decided to tackle on the changes for her. 

I do not understand why people see it as a nerf, she deserves some rework and now here it is. (Despite the fact that her passive and first skill are basically still close to useless, but hey, I suppose Frost also applied to that category) 

The only key we need to know is the actual numbers of the increased damage and energy cost, which hopefully will make her viable in high level situations such as Sortie 3, but still demand enough skills from the player to actually make her survivable in such situation. 

[(PSN)Rasmus_ep88]

Does anyone know if this vex armor change also affects the defensive element of it, or is it "only" the damage buff component which changes calculation method? 

[Mouse_Mendez]

So....tell me....after these changes...what reason in holy hell do I have to ever suit up Ember again?

I just want to know.  Please tell me.

You talk about what role she plays now, but what role will she have after you make these changes?

 

Edited February 3, 2018 by Mouse_Mendez