PoE destroyed Chroma

[rune_me]

8 minutes ago, NV1337 said:

You know what I think I'm fighting a losing fight right now.

In all honesty you were fighting it on the wrong front anyway. Even if you "won" the fight here on the forums, there's nothing at all we could do about it. I don't "want" a Chroma nerf. I understand why it is here, but if it weren't, I would have been fine without it. But I can't help you, my friend. I can not make DE not nerf Chroma. We are not DE's soldiers, so there was never any reason to fight this war against us.

11 minutes ago, NV1337 said:

DE must refine its foundations before adding more and more new content because it is starting to create a bubble that will bring about catastrophic consequences.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. Right now Warframe is just one giant mountain of concepts and barely working ideas piled on top of each other in the hope that they won't fall over.

[NV1337]

14 minutes ago, rune_me said:

If you don't see a reason to use Chroma then -wait for it- don't use Chroma. Whoa, that was a simple solution!

I doubt anyone actually thought that. Anybody who has seen how DE normally add new content knew that PoE would begin as a big broken mess of vague ideas and barely sketched out concepts, and that as time went by, some of that would get fixed and many other things would stay a broken mess, possibly for a very long time. I doubt anybody believed it would replace ranking up gear on Hydron, opening relics in fissures, credit farming in the index, etc, etc. 

No that was never a selling point. You were always forced to play the game the way DE's designs dictated. Personally, I prefer to play as a naked hippie chick dancing in moonlight while shooting rainbows out my nether regions, but sadly Warframe never gave me the freedom to choose that playstyle. So instead I had to play Excalibur, which is just not as fun.

I feel the need to atleast address this comment before I leave the thread.

For your argument number 1 which is "If you don't see a reason to use Chroma then -wait for it- don't use Chroma. Whoa, that was a simple solution!"

I see that you are one of those people who go all oh if you don't like the game then don't play it. If you read any of my previous comment it is pretty obvious that I have grown attached to the playstyle of chroma. He is essentially like a self insert something me and many other players project themselves into. That was one of the reasons I have grown attached to him and was willing to forma him a total of 10 times and farm for platinum to be able to buy his deluxe skin. I have grown to like the idea of playing as a dragon tank that grows stronger the more damage he takes almost like a berserker. To see what made him relatively unique or superior to other frames in that playstyle show signs of disappearing terrifies me. I want to have my faith in DE but knowing how many times the managed to fck these kinds of things up I wouldn't be surprised if they make him become completely irrelevant.

 

I doubt anyone actually thought that. Anybody who has seen how DE normally add new content knew that PoE would begin as a big broken mess of vague ideas and barely sketched out concepts, and that as time went by, some of that would get fixed and many other things would stay a broken mess, possibly for a very long time. I doubt anybody believed it would replace ranking up gear on Hydron, opening relics in fissures, credit farming in the index, etc, etc. 

As for your second point. Yes you have a point any veteran can tell that POE would be a plain disappointment. However, me and countless other players how have never experienced DE's shadiness have almost no clue of knowing that they would fck it up. My point with the POE argument was that it was hyped up to be the next big thing that will have players continuously playing on it and would have 100's of hours of content. Who would have thought that it would fck up this badly when warframe only grew into relevancy since around early 2017.

As for your third point about the playstyle thing. I would like to point out why I said freedom of playstyle is one of warframe's selling point. First off warframe's modding system can literally enable you to make your own playstyle. You wanna play as a exalted blade wielding excalibur mod for it. You want to become a nuclear javeling excalibur mod for it. Wanna spam blind as excalibur mod for it. Warframe has the system and capability to allow for such an immense range of freedom in playstyle. Sure you can't become a hippie shooting rainbows out of your asss but when it comes to gameplay overall there are so much freedom. Me and a lot of other players found comfort in using chroma as a solo tank that grow stronger the more he gets hit. But to all of a sudden take away that power fantasy that many people including me have spent 3 years getting comfortable in is what pisses us off.

 

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

10 minutes ago, NV1337 said:

. It seems that too many people just want chroma to be nerfed.

The audacity of letting players get used to a core mechanic of a chroma for 3 years and all of a sudden just nerfing it straight away out of nowhere with the only justification being eidolon fights are just too easy with chroma which is straight up a falasy because you do not need chroma for eidolon fights has severely left a bad impression on me.

Simply put no one asked for this nerf. NO ONE!!! 

People didn't necessarily WANT him nerfed - they understand WHY he was nerfed.  There is a big difference.

As for "audacity" - they have waited years before changing things plenty of times in the past, and I'm sure will do so again in the future.

No one asked for it, but people pointed out how the calculation was off, the damage output broken, and how it trivialized a few things in game.

 

No one knows for sure how it will be to play the new chroma.  THe only thing we know for sure is everytime any change is announced, all the chicken littles come out and scream about the world ending.  Believe it or not, many people have ENJOYED the changes to things that were "nerfed" over the years - including some people who doubted that the changes could even be viable.  

People need to calm down.

[NV1337]

1 minute ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

People didn't necessarily WANT him nerfed - they understand WHY he was nerfed.  There is a big difference.

As for "audacity" - they have waited years before changing things plenty of times in the past, and I'm sure will do so again in the future.

No one asked for it, but people pointed out how the calculation was off, the damage output broken, and how it trivialized a few things in game.

 

No one knows for sure how it will be to play the new chroma.  THe only thing we know for sure is everytime any change is announced, all the chicken littles come out and scream about the world ending.  Believe it or not, many people have ENJOYED the changes to things that were "nerfed" over the years - including some people who doubted that the changes could even be viable.  

People need to calm down.

That is the problem. They waited YEARS! If this nerf came out just 2 years ago hell even 1 year ago no one would have complained. But it took them 3 years and the only reason why they are even doing is because of the eidolons. This is what worries that fact that they are willing to nerf chroma because of eidolons shows that DE is not longer emphasizing refining the core foundations of the game but instead focusing on adding new content. They are doing what disney did to star wars. Kill off things that will get in your way of adding new content and ignore refining the foundations of a game.

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

2 minutes ago, NV1337 said:

They waited YEARS! If this nerf came out just 2 years ago hell even 1 year ago no one would have complained.

If they released him, then nerfed him the next day people would have complained. Thats what people here do.

Any chroma "mains" should have known his damage calcs were broken, and should have been expecting the change, and just been happy they got their kicks out of it while it lasted.

And like I said before, they waited YEARS before fixing, changing, or breaking other content, and it will happen again in the future.  Get used to it.

 

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

2 hours ago, Kiwinille said:

I know you're just mad because you probably abuse Chroma

I don’t care about Chroma at all. It’s DE’s blatant lying through their teeth that grinds my gears. He’s not working as intended, they say three years after his introduction into the game. Three years after content creators have made very popular builds and shared them on YouTube for everyone to see. Yea I don’t think so. No one’s buying that. I hate liars.

Don’t make assumptions. You don’t know me at all.

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

56 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

If they released him, then nerfed him the next day people would have complained.

Definitely not as much as they are now, because no one would hvae really gotten used to his mechanics yet. You simply cannot claim that the backlash to a day-after-release nerf would get the same reaction as a three year delay nerf.

59 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

Any chroma "mains" should have known his damage calcs were broke

They should have known that his damage calcs were broken based on what? DE’s total silence on the matter up until now? You act like people thinking that since DE weren’t talking about it for years one end that means its not broken, is stupid.

 

[(PSN)Leviathan6]

12 hours ago, peterc3 said:

You knowingly agree when signing up for this game that it is in beta, or to use a phrase less polluted by modern gaming, active development. If this were the case, that there is a period of time after which devs cannot fix bugs, the game/software industry shuts down. No hyperbole.

Every feature in this game has or will change, from minor alterations to being removed from the game entirely. DE cannot actively look at every piece of the game at all times, they must shift their focus and put resources into some things, some of the time. They are not EA, they are not Ubisoft. They can't just break it into pieces and give each to their 7 subsidiary studios.

The game is free, every person playing could just stop buying Plat tomorrow. That is their assumption. They have a budget today that will allow them to do X, Y and Z. With that, they have to make new content, look at old content and plan for the future. They have to get people to spend money on it. Every person that spends money on this game does so with either the explicit or expected understanding that the thing they are buying can and probably will change at some point.

Given the pace of development, there comes a time when something released shines a light on a previously released piece of content that causes a problem. Vex Armor is fine for 99.9% of the content in the game, even with the bugged math. DE introduces the Eidolon. Chroma is immediately able to one-shot the limbs. This is a problem. Time for VA to get the attention it didn't need before but needs now.

Arca Plasmor. Works fine for 99.9% of the time, but now an idea for a Harrow augment is implemented. This causes the devs to see an unintended interaction between the augment and a shotgun that is supposed to do CC and is now doing lots of headshots. This weapon was never supposed to be used like this, so they bring it in line with how they want it to work. This happened within a rather short amount of time, I guess you have to be OK with this one, right?

Vex Armor was out of control and was brought in line, what do you think is happening here?

Trinity is a ghost? Then I must be haunted.

That's it, Chroma was too popular. Didn't see anything but Chroma anywhere. It's always about money, namely the $0 that they charge to download and play the game. What connection is there between the Corinth and the Arca Plasmor?

All you're saying it that DE can do whatever they want. No one disagrees with that. I'm merely stating the obvious DE is killing Chroma, and sounds like you want this happen. Chroma wasn't out of control. Frankly, it took a lot of forma and time to get him to the point of being strong and that not a broken mechanic thats just a return on an investment. Furthermore, everyone keeps saying that Chroma has unbelievable damage, but that's not true; the weapons are what's strong and Chroma just enhances them. I fail to see the disconnect here, you have to invest time and mods into two different things to get a high return and even then there are still other frames that will out do Chroma. Banshee with sound quake is a great example, or octavia. Of course you're really only working on one thing it those cases. 

However, you made my point for me. DE is weakening old content to make way for new content. We're all on a treadmill here and there are some of us who don't like it. 

As for Trinity, its been weaken a few times. I remember the days when trinity was critical for survival but not so much anymore. So yes you might still use it, but trinity is no where near as useful as it use to be and for that matter popular. 

As for the Eidolons, as I said there is a perfectly viable way to stop Chroma from killing them to quickly. Just cap the damage a joint can take from a single shot. Just like manics and juggernauts. It's not hard and it'd be a lot less offensive to people who enjoy Chroma.

You don't see the connection between the Plasmor and the Cornith? The Plasmor is dominating the market, the utility is high the damage is high, overall its an excellent weapon. So the simple fact is that unless they weaken it no one will want to move on to the new guns, the corinth is just first in line. You can call the Arca overpowered but the fact is you still have to aim for headshots, at least when it counts. If I'm a foot away aiming at the face, that should be a headshot. Plus the tigris still hits harder, so why isn't it getting nerfed? Because it's not popular enough, not anymore.  My understanding is that DE is weakening the Plasmor to direct our builds toward status. Why exactly are they taking away the level of customization that makes warframe fun? 

From where I'm sitting it sounds like you just want to see Chroma nerfed. I don't what your motivation is but that's petty. 

 

 

[Tyrian3k]

As I see the current plan, Vex Armor will be hard to use as a buff on with the current Chroma builds, which typically sacrifice range in order to deal with the already very limited wiggle room. If they go ahead with the current plan, we'll have to not only mod for strength, duration, armor and health, but also for range to even affect our allies. Rhino for example can allow himself to not mod for health or range because his Iron Skin compensates for the lack of hit points while the fact that Roar stays with buffed allies once they are buffed can compensate for the lack of range. With Vex Armor being an aura and the requirement to get damaged in order to even activate its buffs, he has neither of those luxuries and has a much tighter build as a result, meaning that the buff will either have no range to affect the allies, too little duration to even use it effectvely or too little strength to compete with other buff abilities.

If Vex Armor is going to be a group buff aura like Elemental Ward now, they might as well fuse it into Elemental Ward and give Chroma a completely new ability. In that case, Chroma could actually function as a buffer if you equip Everlasting Ward.

Also, if they're going to rework Chroma, please give him a proper passive already. If being able to switch elements in the aresenal counts as a passive, then why does Equinox have a separate passive? Equinox can even switch forms on the fly, unlike Chroma.

[Vanille]

8 hours ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

I don’t care about Chroma at all. It’s DE’s blatant lying through their teeth that grinds my gears. He’s not working as intended, they say three years after his introduction into the game. Three years after content creators have made very popular builds and shared them on YouTube for everyone to see. Yea I don’t think so. No one’s buying that. I hate liars.

Don’t make assumptions. You don’t know me at all.

So you're gonna ignore that video where they acknowledge the bug? Are they blatantly lying or are you blatantly ignoring. You're calling them liars while theres video proof with even an explanation why it wasn't rush-fixed before, lmao. And you're right, I don't know you at all and you say you don't care about Chroma at all, yet your salty posts about Chroma's situation was a good assumption about it, hence why I used the word probably, yet you insist on being mad at DE because they're liars, when again you're the one deciding to ignore the proof.

[(PSN)Leviathan6]

2 minutes ago, Kiwinille said:

So you're gonna ignore that video where they acknowledge the bug? Are they blatantly lying or are you blatantly ignoring. You're calling them liars while theres video proof with even an explanation why it wasn't rush-fixed before, lmao. And you're right, I don't know you at all and you say you don't care about Chroma at all, yet your salty posts about Chroma's situation was a good assumption about it, hence why I used the word probably, yet you insist on being mad at DE because they're liars, when again you're the one deciding to ignore the proof.

Buddy they had three years; that's way more than enough time to do something if it really needed it. My question is why are you so salty that we're pissed about the chroma nerf. Is DE paying your bills or do you hate Chroma?

[Vanille]

8 hours ago, NV1337 said:

That is the problem. They waited YEARS! If this nerf came out just 2 years ago hell even 1 year ago no one would have complained. But it took them 3 years and the only reason why they are even doing is because of the eidolons.

And here's where the hypocrisy shines. Chroma's overly broken buff is only noticeable in 1shoting big hp pools, which until Teralyst, there wasn't much about it. This bug fix (nerf lol.) only affects Teralyst fight, which wasn't DE's intention to be able to get solo 1shot. It doesn't matter wether they fixed it years ago, it would have never affected Chroma anyway, until a balance issue woke DE up to rush and fix him, as there wasn't really a need for it before. Every player complaining and calling this a nerf, mentioning how they have kept it for years are just trying to find any escape excuse for the eidolon cheesing.

[(PSN)Leviathan6]

1 minute ago, Kiwinille said:

And here's where the hypocrisy shines. Chroma's overly broken buff is only noticeable in 1shoting big hp pools, which until Teralyst, there wasn't much about it. This bug fix (nerf lol.) only affects Teralyst fight, which wasn't DE's intention to be able to get solo 1shot. It doesn't matter wether they fixed it years ago, it would have never affected Chroma anyway, until a balance issue woke DE up to rush and fix him, as there wasn't really a need for it before. Every player complaining and calling this a nerf, mentioning how they have kept it for years are just trying to find any escape excuse for the eidolon cheesing.

You know I'm glad you made that argument, because all DE has to do is adjust the teralyst and its a much smaller problem. You can't one shot manics and you can't one shot through juggernaut armor. They already have these solutions at their disposal. So this nerf on chroma is uncalled for. 

[Vanille]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Leviathan6 said:

Buddy they had three years; that's way more than enough time to do something if it really needed it. My question is why are you so salty that we're pissed about the chroma nerf. Is DE paying your bills or do you hate Chroma?

I kept mentioning in my posts why, as well as they mentioned in the devstream. It wasn't an easy fix, and there was no need to rush it because there wasn't a fight Chroma could abuse and cheese so much and have any different impact than other warframes until Teralyst came out. I'm not salty at all, I'm just trying to make people open their eyes to their insisting ignorance because they can't accept change. I play Banshee and Ember for example, and I completely welcome their changes.

[Vanille]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Leviathan6 said:

You know I'm glad you made that argument, because all DE has to do is adjust the teralyst and its a much smaller problem. You can't one shot manics and you can't one shot through juggernaut armor. They already have these solutions at their disposal. So this nerf on chroma is uncalled for. 

Or they finally fix Chroma so they don't have to change Teralyst mechanics, or any big fight in the future at all? As I said before, outside of PoE, Chroma having his broken buff or fixed buff will not affect him at all, so what's the problem here, people simply just can't accept they can't 1shot Teralyst anymore, and are trying to make excuses calling it a nerf, when it's not. Why is it so hard to accept that you're not intended to 1shot that boss.

[(PSN)Leviathan6]

1 minute ago, Kiwinille said:

Or they finally fix Chroma so they don't have to change Teralyst mechanics, or any big fight in the future at all? As I said before, outside of PoE, Chroma having his broken buff or fixed buff will not affect him at all, so what's the problem here, people simply just can't accept they can't 1shot Teralyst anymore, and are trying to make excuses calling it a nerf, when it's not. Why is it so hard to accept that you're not intended to 1shot that boss.

Okay buddy. If the boss isn't intended to be one shotted then design the boss that way. By the way he doesn't get shotted. It's at least 5. 

As to your other point. It's not just chroma that can do this and your dreaming if you think that once they nerf chroma they won't replace him with something else to get sales. 

[(PSN)Leviathan6]

I mean look at Keyla or Vey Hek. Easy comparison. 

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

38 minutes ago, Kiwinille said:

So you're gonna ignore that video where they acknowledge the bug?

After three years of them not bothering to fix it? Yes I am refusing to believe that.

40 minutes ago, Kiwinille said:

yet your salty posts about Chroma's situation was a good assumption about it

No it wasn’t. Thats idiot logic.

40 minutes ago, Kiwinille said:

You're calling them liars while theres video proof with even an explanation why it wasn't rush-fixed before, lmao.

Yes I am calling them liars in the fact that in three whole years they didn’t sit down and bother with it. They didn’t care until Eidolons showed up. So yes they are blatant liars “lmao”.

[Vanille]

21 minutes ago, (PS4)Leviathan6 said:

Okay buddy. If the boss isn't intended to be one shotted then design the boss that way. By the way he doesn't get shotted. It's at least 5. 

As to your other point. It's not just chroma that can do this and your dreaming if you think that once they nerf chroma they won't replace him with something else to get sales. 

You don't have to get technical, you know exactly what people mean with 1shot. Feel free to show me/us any other warframe being able to do what Chroma does. As for your post below that quote, you're confusing mechanics with phases. Teralyst's "phases" are his limbs, thats how they stop you from directly 1shoting the Teralyst itself, and DE doesn't want you to 1shot every single limb before you 1shot the Teralyst, and it's not just a hit X% of hp bar to make it immune as other bosses that have no phase mechanics.

Edited February 5, 2018 by Kiwinille

[Vanille]

1 minute ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

After three years of them not bothering to fix it? Yes I am refusing to believe that.

Okay that's enough to not keep trying to discuss anything with someone. Have in mind that whatever you keep trying to excuse in this thread will not change anything and you'll just be complaining for nothing, specially not taken seriously after what you said. Don't bother replying.

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

1 minute ago, Kiwinille said:

Okay that's enough to not keep trying to discuss anything with someone. Have in mind that whatever you keep trying to excuse in this thread will not change anything and you'll just be complaining for nothing, specially not taken seriously after what you said. Don't bother replying.

Couldn’t actually come up with a smart reply. Unsurprising.

[(PSN)Leviathan6]

7 minutes ago, Kiwinille said:

You don't have to get technical, you know exactly what people mean with 1shot. Feel free to show me/us any other warframe being able to do what Chroma does. As for your post below that quote, you're confusing mechanics with phases. Teralyst's "phases" are his limbs, thats how they stop you from directly 1shoting the Teralyst itself, and DE doesn't want you to 1shot every single limb before you 1shot the Teralyst, and it's not just a hit X% of hp bar to make it immune as other bosses that have no phase mechanics.

No I do have to get technical, because if your participate then you are going to have to be right.

Moving on, other frames that do what chroma does. Sure, Rhino, Mesa, Ivara, Wukong, I'd say Loki (stealth bonus). I'm not sure what your disconnect is but Chroma is not alone by a long shot. 

And I'm not confusing mechanics with phases. I was making a point. There are other alternative that they have put in place. Tyr Regor seems like a good comparison too. DE doesn't want you one shot the limbs? Then adjust the boss not the frames. Why is that so hard for you? 

 

[LightningsVengance]

I think he needs a bit more fine tuning, the change ot Spectral Scream will be nice and osme of the Vex Armow changes will be too but... His Fire, Toxic and Lightning form are severely lack luster compared to his ice form and his effigy... Is debatable to say the least, but that's just my opinion. 

[CaptainZgred]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)Leviathan6 said:

Moving on, other frames that do what chroma does. Sure, Rhino, Mesa, Ivara, Wukong, I'd say Loki (stealth bonus). I'm not sure what your disconnect is but Chroma is not alone by a long shot. 

And I'm not confusing mechanics with phases. I was making a point. There are other alternative that they have put in place. Tyr Regor seems like a good comparison too. DE doesn't want you one shot the limbs? Then adjust the boss not the frames. Why is that so hard for you? 

 

Rhino? Nope. Not even close even after considering roar.

Mesa? Yeah, gets pretty close although excluding most of the "weakpoint" enemies.

Ivara? No.

Wukong? Maybe operator in void mode too in that case?

Loki? Since when Chroma is a crowd control frame?

 

Also, you would probably love to see bosses adjusted so that they take less damage from chroma specifically, right? What about the rest of the enemies? Are you going to adjust every last one of them so that Chroma does not do to them what he does now as efficiently? Then why not adjust Chroma?

[Vanille]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)Leviathan6 said:

No I do have to get technical, because if your participate then you are going to have to be right.

Moving on, other frames that do what chroma does. Sure, Rhino, Mesa, Ivara, Wukong, I'd say Loki (stealth bonus). I'm not sure what your disconnect is but Chroma is not alone by a long shot. 

And I'm not confusing mechanics with phases. I was making a point. There are other alternative that they have put in place. Tyr Regor seems like a good comparison too. DE doesn't want you one shot the limbs? Then adjust the boss not the frames. Why is that so hard for you? 

 

Yet I can't find any of those frames 1shoting every limb and the Teralyst. None of them is nearly close to a broken buff that lets them 1shot them, specially with no effort and on their own. Please if you have any video or something, share.

Tyr Regor is no different than any other 'hit X% hp boss", except he just jumps away instead of just waiting on his grey bar face. Again, why adjust a boss with more complicated mechanics, and with their direction of adding new big boss fights, when they could fix the problem (before anyone jumps again with the 'why now and not 3 years earlier, it's has already been said, it made no difference before). It's not hard for me at all, I accept all changes (I use Banshee and Ember a lot for example). I'm not clinging to any cheesing method and trying to deny or find an excuse to keep it, there's no logic reason for it.