1vs1 / basic competetive honor rules

[Loxyen]

Here is a quick look up + short explanation for the basic honor rules:

 

1. No ability spam! Their numbers might be altered in pvp, yet are they designed for pve zerg swarm killing, so there are a lot broken abilities which breake the balance. Without further agreements all of them are forbidden. Light version of that rule is enabling the use of abilities for the purpose of mobility benefit only!

 

2. No abuse of broken weapons/warframes/mechanics! Warframe is in an ever evolving and changing state so broken mechanics and broken loadouts will appear every now and then. To secure fair circumstances its prohibited to take advantage of those. Two examples are overpowered stats that fall out of the balance sphere and being able to glitch through walls.

also forbidden are lagswitching, hacks, ddos attacks, etc.

 

3. No 'red-/ running'! To ensure a smooth match with enough encounters and fight situations where the skill and nothing but the skill matters, it is forbidden to run away and go on a journey to grow your red orb collection! Tactical retreats and re positioning to gain back the strategic advantage on the map are allowed as long as you gonna engage again immediately. The collection of red HP orbs is only granted right after killing the opponent as abet of the fairness for the next engagement. If there is a long range fight and the players loose track of each other there will be no penalty.

 

4. No type killing! Some matches might get intense or unexpected things are happening. Most times a conversation is inevitable. Nevertheless as mentioned before those Conclave matches are a measure/a test of skill. You would only cheat yourself killing your opponent while he is busy and unguarded while typing. If it happens do excuse and a trade kill is an acceptable compensatory measure!

If you do not want to chit chat at all during the fight or if the chatting is getting to far let your opponent know. Before the match starts at best. If he is continuing to let you wait while he is typing or starts to abuse this rule you're granted to kill him right away and ignore the compensation measure for the rest of the match. An abuse example would be every time you shoot him he starts to stand still and is typing.

 

5. Be ready to record the match! (optional/tournament rule) This rule can be seen as optional, but is a sign of good will. If your opponent is asking for your point of view during the match be ready to record it. This rule can appear to be a tournament participation necessity as evidence of the fairness for your match!

 

 

Those are the basic rules you should comply with if there are no other agreements made.

Under tournament conditions or if there is a neutral judge present in a regular match his/her assess is valid.

If there is no judge the 3rd violation of those rules will cancel the match and invalidate the outcome as well as a tight win/even result made through violations without compensations.

Spoiler

This thread was made to please the rising occurrence of questions about the honor rules since there are a lot of rumors out there.

It is posted into the feedback section so that the pvp devs can easily find the rules if they are considered for further development reasons and as a reminder of what the dedicated Conclave community used to have agreed on.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2018 by Loxyen

[(PSN)Xx-Ribbium-xX]

I dont see how this is related to conclave feedback whatsoever, also i dont see how yet again pc should be able to dictate what happens on console.

Its also only official if it comes from de themselves, Not some random irrelevant pc player nobody has ever heard of. 

[_GoodLuck_]

Nice joke xDDD

You made my day

[Loxyen]

16 hours ago, (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX said:

I dont see how this is related to conclave feedback whatsoever, also i dont see how yet again pc should be able to dictate what happens on console.

Its also only official if it comes from de themselves,

 

4 hours ago, _GoodLuck_ said:

Nice joke xDDD

You made my day

These rules got formed, adapted and carried out for years by the dedicated Conclave community. Those honor rules were known as common sense since the implementation of Conclave, way before your time in Warframe. ;) Yet most of the Vets parted with Warframe while a lot of grasshoppers joined in so I merely wrote em down to please the growing amount of interest and to clarify rumors. 

About the console thing... Despite the facts that a lot of console conclave players used to follow these rules too without anything being dictated and that I don't give a damn what you console guys do these days, there is also this:

Spoiler

  On 11.2.2018 at 5:34 PM, (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX said:

But currently every change effects all of us and since 2 of the 3 platforms are going to be negatively effected by this proposed change it shouldn't happen 

And THAT is one of the biggest flaws Conclave has. There are differences in the gameplay between pc and consoles. Balancing them the same way despite those two completely different 'steering systemes' isn't reasonable at all!

What we get are random changes of perfectly fine balanced weapons nobody asked for resulting into more broken stuff flooding our matches. I bet its like that on both ends.

 

 

16 hours ago, (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX said:

Not some random irrelevant pc player nobody has ever heard of. 

And you are?  Nice assumption there, it made me laugh. I like it. 

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

This reminds me of  the PvP rules my 8year old makes with his friends.

• Take turns killing each other
• If you assassinate me, I get to assassinate you.

Break the rules - fear the wrath of the party host and be prepared to be kicked.

 

[Loxyen]

9 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

This reminds me of  the PvP rules my 8year old makes with his friends.

• Take turns killing each other
• If you assassinate me, I get to assassinate you.

Break the rules - fear the wrath of the party host and be prepared to be kicked.

Yet they worked as intended and created fair circumstances. You might be able to learn something from your 8year old, just a guess but you seem to have missed the intention of those rules too.

Here some hints:

Spoiler

20 hours ago, Loxyen said:

To secure fair circumstances

 

20 hours ago, Loxyen said:

where the skill and nothing but the skill matters

 

20 hours ago, Loxyen said:

Conclave matches are a measure/a test of skill

 

20 hours ago, Loxyen said:

You would only cheat yourself

 

 

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

Rules 1,2, and 3 appear to be addressing shortcomings of broken Warframe PvP.  And lets look at some of those a little:

• 1 Sounds a bit like asking people in battle with an auto rifle to only shoot one bullet a second.
• 2 sounds like PvP is just broken.  Well its an underplayed part of WF - should probably just remove it. Failing that, everyone can do the same thing.  Dont like the way a player plays? Ignore them and find someone else. (DDOS, hacks etc I believe to be expressly against DE's rules, probably their ISP's rules, and in the US at least- federal and state laws,  and such should need no further enumeration )
• 3 Can't retreat? regroup? what? Maybe they are retreating to think about their tactics and noodle on new ones.  Maybe they're setting up an ambush.  "Wait wait - come back here - I was about to kill you!"
• 4 Whats so important you have to yap about? rules 1,2, and 3? get a mic. start a party chat.  "Wait - wait come back I was about to ki*BLAM*"

8 Year olds make up their rules because they can't stand losing, and nowadays are getting coddled in the participation award mentatlity.

 

[JonBenj]

Ludicrous leaps of reality - such as Loxyen being able to "dictate" how other players should conduct themselves, let alone effect console balancing.

 

[Nighttide77]

Shouldn't this be in Players Helping Players for Conclave?  Wasn't there such a section or am I crazy when I look for it and it's not there...?

[Rabbid-]

Didn't know there were such rules in conclave, and the rules are rather funny
I fought a guy once, I was using Rhino and he was using Loki, I chased him down until his hp got low and then go invis, instead I press 1 and charged him off the map and he said, "you're using your skill that's not fair" while a second before he died he used invis and then makes a rule to not spam skills.
The point of ability is to be used, yea you can spam it, if you were killed by it then that's your fault to not run away 
 

[Loxyen]

16 hours ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

1 Sounds a bit like asking people in battle with an auto rifle to only shoot one bullet a second.

Spoiler

On 16.2.2018 at 12:05 AM, Loxyen said:

1. No ability spam!

how come you're talking about rifles? There are way enough high rate of fire weapons out there and DE just changed a couple slow rof weapons to have a faster firerate. e.g. Quartakk and Daikyu

 

 

17 hours ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

2 sounds like PvP is just broken.  Well its an underplayed part of WF - should probably just remove it. Failing that, everyone can do the same thing.  Dont like the way a player plays? Ignore them and find someone else. (DDOS, hacks etc I believe to be expressly against DE's rules, probably their ISP's rules, and in the US at least- federal and state laws,  and such should need no further enumeration )

Spoiler

Those rules are agreements of players for competitive weapon-play in 1v1s and tournaments since there are a lot ways to exploit abilities and bugs. This is a given because:

On 16.2.2018 at 12:05 AM, Loxyen said:

Warframe is in an ever evolving and changing state so broken mechanics and broken loadouts will appear every now and then.

pve changes affect pvp too since the pvp built IS the pve built with altered stats to gain a balanced basis. It could be better in my opinion but it is playable.

 

17 hours ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

Well its an underplayed part of WF - should probably just remove it.

Oh thats what its about... why are you even here then?

 

17 hours ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

3 Can't retreat? regroup? what? Maybe they are retreating to think about their tactics and noodle on new ones.  Maybe they're setting up an ambush.  "Wait wait - come back here - I was about to kill you!"

Spoiler

This rule was made to get rid of 'pacifistic' play styles since a couple players started to avoid any further confrontation in the match. Literally vanished just running away while collecting red orbs if they got shot on the move. This type of 'play style/tactic' went inglorious instantly, because you're getting into a 10 minute match for the fight, not to see clouds of dust every time you popped his shields. Tactical retreats or regroups in team-death-matches are still possible under that rule. You're allowed to break the line of sight, even to kite your opponent as long as you don't waste minutes of the game with running away. Also those rules were made to form a basis of agreements, a common sense, nobody said that you're not allowed to make own rules with your opponent/friends/or whoever if you feel like.

 

17 hours ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

4 Whats so important you have to yap about? rules 1,2, and 3? get a mic. start a party chat.  "Wait - wait come back I was about to ki*BLAM*"

Spoiler

not everyone has the ownership of a mic and not everyone of the people you're fighting is using teamspeak, discord, etc either. At least on pc most people have muted the in-game voice chat because it really isn't the best and a major part of the people using it don't have the best mics either. Do you want to hear screeching and scratching noises from peoples dying mics all the time?

 

17 hours ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

8 Year olds make up their rules because they can't stand losing, and nowadays are getting coddled in the participation award mentatlity.

Or they noticed that something is going wrong, that they've been deceived and want to change that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Loxyen]

12 hours ago, JonBenj said:

Ludicrous leaps of reality - such as Loxyen being able to "dictate" how other players should conduct themselves, let alone effect console balancing.

IKR!? :D merely did this as someone who experienced the whole development of Conclave and the 'common sense rules':

On 16.2.2018 at 12:05 AM, Loxyen said:

This thread was made to please the rising occurrence of questions about the honor rules since there are a lot of rumors out there.

 

 

4 hours ago, Rabbid- said:

Didn't know there were such rules in conclave, and the rules are rather funny
I fought a guy once, I was using Rhino and he was using Loki, I chased him down until his hp got low and then go invis, instead I press 1 and charged him off the map and he said, "you're using your skill that's not fair" while a second before he died he used invis and then makes a rule to not spam skills.
The point of ability is to be used, yea you can spam it, if you were killed by it then that's your fault to not run away 

 That rule was born in the 1.0 version of Conclave, because pve loadouts were used there. So nuking the entire map wasn't rly hard to do. Later in the current version a lot of forth and back changes were made and some of those abilities were still sticking out to be considered as broken while others literally had no effect. It has gotten better now but we still have broken abilities such as the one handed ones. Soul Punch for example. With a constant gain of energy each second clusterfucks are preordained and your choice of 'useful' Warframes is limited because their abilities vary that much. Also those energy orbs don't even have that much tactical weight with the energy regeneration each second to say that abilities are a fair tactical addition to the core weapon play. Thats why the community decided to keep the rule in the current Conclave built.

They are known as a basic code of conduct to keep things fair. You and you're opponent are free to make own rules as you please.

 

7 hours ago, Nighttide77 said:

Shouldn't this be in Players Helping Players for Conclave?  Wasn't there such a section or am I crazy when I look for it and it's not there...?

Was it? idk.

On 16.2.2018 at 12:05 AM, Loxyen said:

It is posted into the feedback section so that the pvp devs can easily find the rules if they are considered for further development reasons and as a reminder of what the dedicated Conclave community used to have agreed on.

Since we are asking for server browsers etc. all the time an option to create lobbies with own limiters would be nice as well. Remember the time we got those random mutators on Conclave matches? Being able to set the conditions of our own matches would be a great tool to spice things up. Together with a server browser the people can see what mutations are applied.

[_GoodLuck_]

Everyone plays as they want. Stop to propagandize these "important rules".

And this topic shouldn't be in this subforum.

Edited February 19, 2018 by _GoodLuck_
Grammar error fix

[Loxyen]

17 hours ago, _GoodLuck_ said:

Everyone plays as they want. Stop to propagandize this "important rules".

Spoiler

On 16.2.2018 at 7:43 PM, Loxyen said:

These rules got formed, adapted and carried out for years by the dedicated Conclave community. Those honor rules were known as common sense since the implementation of Conclave

 

On 17.2.2018 at 2:59 PM, Loxyen said:

They are known as a basic code of conduct to keep things fair. You and you're opponent are free to make own rules as you please.

 

 

 

17 hours ago, _GoodLuck_ said:

And this topic shouldn't be in this subforum.

Spoiler

On 16.2.2018 at 12:05 AM, Loxyen said:

It is posted into the feedback section so that the pvp devs can easily find the rules if they are considered for further development reasons and as a reminder of what the dedicated Conclave community used to have agreed on.

 

On 17.2.2018 at 2:59 PM, Loxyen said:

Since we are asking for server browsers etc. all the time an option to create lobbies with own limiters would be nice as well. Remember the time we got those random mutators on Conclave matches? Being able to set the conditions of our own matches would be a great tool to spice things up. Together with a server browser the people can see what mutations are applied.

 

 

Anything else?

[sanghije]

Loxyen's attempt to tell "Honor Rules" is not to dictate what or how you play your Conclave 1v1 matches but, instead, to lay down an almost universal set of rules most would, probably, agree upon for an Honor Duel. The same way Dojo Duels had their own version of Honor Rules and even historical events in real life such as Gentlemen Duels. It gives both parties a sense of structure and security for their match. Will everyone agree with Loxyen's version of Honor Rules, maybe. However, it can now serve as a know version of Honor Rules, something for new and old players to consider, and maybe give some tweaking of their own. 

Edited February 18, 2018 by sanghije
Grammatical Error

[Loxyen]

5 hours ago, sanghije said:

Loxyen's attempt to tell "Honor Rules" is not to dictate what or how you play your Conclave 1v1 matches but, instead, to lay down an almost universal set of rules most would, probably, agree upon for an Honor Duel. The same way Dojo Duels had their own version of Honor Rules and even historical events in real life such as Gentlemen Duels. It gives both parties a sense of structure and security for their match. Will everyone agree with Loxyen's version of Honor Rules, maybe. However, it can now serve as a know version of Honor Rules, something for new and old players to consider, and maybe give some tweaking of their own.

THANK CHU

[_GoodLuck_]

7 hours ago, Loxyen said:

-s-

Don't hold me for stupid. You are in 2.0 version of Conclave. All these rules is not acceptable in 2.0 due to many reasons.

Okay. Let's analyze these stupid rules:

1. No ability spam...

Are you seriously? Okay. No weapons! Just frame feet (yes, they deal a damage on bullet-jump)!

2. No abuse of broken weapons/warframes/mechanics!

*feature

3. No 'red-/ running'!

The one of most useful tactic for light frames. You suggest me die quickly because i use light frame? Lol xDDD Nope!

MORE MECHANICS RESTRICTIONS!!!

4. No type killing!

Yes. Yes. Yes! A good moment for start typing at a middle of fight. Again. Are you seriously? When I play, I play, I not typing. You can freely type when you have been killed. Or just hide anywhere else and type many text as you can!

5. Be ready to record the match! (optional/tournament rule)

Are it's a rule?

----

Result: totally unreasoned rules with "good argumentation". If you follow these rules, you are an idiot.

P.S Sry if my English is bad. Not my native lang

Edited February 18, 2018 by _GoodLuck_
Postscriptum

[.Zel]

2 hours ago, _GoodLuck_ said:

Don't hold me for stupid. You are in 2.0 version of Conclave. All these rules is not acceptable in 2.0 due to many reasons.

Okay. Let's analyze these stupid rules:

1. No ability spam...

Are you seriously? Okay. No weapons! Just frame feet (yes, they deal a damage on bullet-jump)!

2. No abuse of broken weapons/warframes/mechanics!

*feature

3. No 'red-/ running'!

The one of most useful tactic for light frames. You suggest me die quickly because i use light frame? Lol xDDD Nope!

MORE MECHANICS RESTRICTIONS!!!

 

----

Result: totally unreasoned rules with "good argumentation". If you follow these rules, you are an idiot.

 

coming from the guy who says bullet jumping is spam LOL.

Edited February 18, 2018 by .Zel

[_GoodLuck_]

7 hours ago, .Zel said:

coming from the guy who says bullet jumping is spam LOL.

No no. It's okay. c:

Sometimes I play with a light frames too.

[Heckzu]

On 2/16/2018 at 2:20 PM, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

2 sounds like PvP is just broken. 

The second point is actually a result of DE's bad coding practice. Ordinarily, weapon balance is fine and all weapons are fair, but with almost every weapon overhaul update, the changes in PvE somehow also end up in Conclave. It could be caused by neglecting to double check the property file changes after using Ctrl + F and replacing all the numbers associated with a weapon, or it could be caused by spaghetti code connecting Conclave weapon stats with PvE weapon stats. 

[--Q--MoonStealer]

For 1v1 i would switch off all of powers and mods and make the warframe stats exactly the same to have the purest fight of aiming skill. 

I was thinkin bout selected weapons. Every player tooks his own weapon? Or they should play with the same? Or maybe they should change the weapon?

Edited February 19, 2018 by --Q--MoonStealer

[Loxyen]

On 19.2.2018 at 6:23 PM, --Q--MoonStealer said:

For 1v1 i would switch off all of powers and mods and make the warframe stats exactly the same to have the purest fight of aiming skill. 

I was thinkin bout selected weapons. Every player tooks his own weapon? Or they should play with the same? Or maybe they should change the weapon?

That depends on how much further you gonna set rules with your opponent of course. Everyone his own loadout of choice or a determinated one. Its up to you or the host of the tournament you might consider to join. I basically posted the fundamental code of conduct which used to be in every Conclave players mind.

About the "same stats" scenario... we used to have another game mode called Variant. Actually we had several versions of it. I don't know why DE took it down but a lot ppl are looking forward for it coming back.

[Loxyen]

 

Spoiler

On 18.2.2018 at 10:40 PM, _GoodLuck_ said:

Don't hold me for stupid. You are in 2.0 version of Conclave. All these rules is not acceptable in 2.0 due to many reasons.

Okay. Let's analyze these stupid rules:

Still... you don't seem to get the idea why those rules exist in first place nor in what forms and dimensions exploits can appear. And they are indeed acceptable. Why do you think did ppl create them in first place and even followed those for years while they kept them up to date?

Alright here we go:

First up please keep in mind that "...those rules were made by the community to ensure a clean and fair competitive environment for weapon play."

On 18.2.2018 at 10:40 PM, _GoodLuck_ said:

1. No ability spam...

Are you seriously? Okay. No weapons! Just frame feet (yes, they deal a damage on bullet-jump)!

I stated the reasons already. Let me explain it again:

Spoiler

Those abilities were designed for the mass killing pve side of Warframe. To be as efficient as possible for just the effort of pushing one button. Sure did DE change their numbers to fit better into pvp, yet is there a huge gap in choice just by considering your Warframes ability effectivity in pvp. Some are still devastating while others are considered to be useless. That alone will limit your choice of Warframes and create a massive meta if you consider your choice depending on the utility of your abilities. Well we actually can see that meta in public games. Also DE is always making changes and reworks in pve which causes more disparity in Conclave since Conclave is the same as pve, just with changed numbers and other players as enemies. The Conclave dev team just contains 2 ppl which are partially busy with lending a hand for pve stuff too. Thus we can't expect perfectly fine balanced changes in short time.

Another thing to be aware of at this point is that:

On 17.2.2018 at 2:59 PM, Loxyen said:

That rule was born in the 1.0 version of Conclave, because pve loadouts were used there. So nuking the entire map wasn't rly hard to do. Later in the current version a lot of forth and back changes were made and some of those abilities were still sticking out to be considered as broken while others literally had no effect. It has gotten better now but we still have broken abilities such as the one handed ones. Soul Punch for example. With a constant gain of energy each second clusterfucks are preordained and your choice of 'useful' Warframes is limited because their abilities vary that much. Also those energy orbs don't even have that much tactical weight with the energy regeneration each second to say that abilities are a fair tactical addition to the core weapon play. Thats why the community decided to keep the rule in the current Conclave built.

 

 

On 18.2.2018 at 10:40 PM, _GoodLuck_ said:

2. No abuse of broken weapons/warframes/mechanics!

*feature

You might call those features now, but you'd rage the roof out of hell as soon as you loose to someone exploiting broken things to the fullest, is being advantageous through bug abuse or is ripping your connection or even your hardware into pieces.

I state it again:

"...those rules were made by the community to ensure a clean and fair competitive environment..."

 

 

On 18.2.2018 at 10:40 PM, _GoodLuck_ said:

3. No 'red-/ running'!

The one of most useful tactic for light frames. You suggest me die quickly because i use light frame? Lol xDDD Nope!

MORE MECHANICS RESTRICTIONS!!!

 

I am using light Warframes (+ light and ultra light builts) 24/7 myself and do perfectly fine without the need to run away and avoid confrontations nor do I need to collect those health orbs. Its not just me, there are others who do fine by doing the same too. Yes you should utilize the movement system to the fullest while using light Warframes and the rule is allowing it aswell. It is merely restricting people to not keep running away and avoid fighting the whole match when you're actually there to fight. As I wrote above: "Tactical retreats and re positioning to gain back the strategic advantage on the map are allowed as long as you gonna engage again immediately." Actually, those hp/shield recharge mods on kill are allowed and serve a welcome alternative.

 

On 18.2.2018 at 10:40 PM, _GoodLuck_ said:

4. No type killing!

Yes. Yes. Yes! A good moment for start typing at a middle of fight. Again. Are you seriously? When I play, I play, I not typing. You can freely type when you have been killed. Or just hide anywhere else and type many text as you can!

Let me quote again:

Spoiler

On 16.2.2018 at 12:05 AM, Loxyen said:

Some matches might get intense or unexpected things are happening. Most times a conversation is inevitable. Nevertheless as mentioned before those Conclave matches are a measure/a test of skill. You would only cheat yourself killing your opponent while he is busy and unguarded while typing.

Killing your opponent or getting killed by him while there is a conversation and your or your opponents focus is locked into the chat window can't be called a measure of skill at all! If you don't want to chit chat just tell it your opponent if he's starting to write.

 

 

On 18.2.2018 at 10:40 PM, _GoodLuck_ said:

5. Be ready to record the match! (optional/tournament rule)

Are it's a rule?

You don't seem to have understood this rule as well. Did you even read the explanation?

"5. Be ready to record the match! (optional/tournament rule)"

This rule is an optional choice of showing good will in those random matches. But in tournaments, with rewards to win and effort put into the organization, it can appear to be a prerequisite to enter the tournament. If you'd host a tournament would you be happy to get the rewards snatched by cheaters? Trust is good but control is better in that situation.

 

 

On 18.2.2018 at 10:40 PM, _GoodLuck_ said:

Result: totally unreasoned rules with

THAT is a blatant unreasoned proposition, because they totally ARE reasoned. Just because you decided to not like them does not erase their reason of existence at all.

 

On 18.2.2018 at 10:40 PM, _GoodLuck_ said:

good argumentation

Thanks I'll take that as compliment since English isn't my native language as well.

 

On 18.2.2018 at 10:40 PM, _GoodLuck_ said:

If you follow these rules, you are an idiot.

If you continue to argue further as you did before the only idiot around will be you.

I'm telling you this as a friendly reference:

Please stop commenting like that here until you thought up some actual reasons that invalidate those code of conduct rules. For that do consider they are meant to create a fair environment in competitive matches. If you find disparities between the rules and the current Conclave built feel free to add suggestions. Those aren't my own thought up rules. They were created, formed and followed by the dedicated Conclave community for years until now and I merely wrote them down here again to clear rumors and please the requests that were made. To clear some possible misunderstanding please read the comment Sanghije made here too.

 

 

On 18.2.2018 at 10:40 PM, _GoodLuck_ said:

P.S Sry if my English is bad. Not my native lang

There is no need for that. I could follow your thoughts.

[Loxyen]

19 minutes ago, xSpectral said:

Honor rules in pvp2.0 lul. 

Mate, it almost only worked cause there was less of us.

You mean 2.0 is only still alive because almost all the 1.0 vets quit and gave the newbs a chance through that?

Actually I'd say the further decreasing number of those vets made DE not put more work into Conclave than we received until now. With less vets who were able to see the whole mode balance-wise from experience there was a lack of feed back and a free pass for cheeser/exploiters who bashed newbies and scared them away. Resulting that Conclave is being called dead and broken while it has a solid base, plus there are a lot of things that haven't been achieved yet.

[_GoodLuck_]

14 hours ago, Loxyen said:

-snip-

Again same arguments. Okay. You won. =/