why not universal vacuum

[(PSN)HurricaneHugo76]

18 minutes ago, robbybe01234 said:

Is it incorrect of me to see that the logical conclusion to establishing universal vacuum is to remove item drops entirely?  That they just appear in your inventory instead of appearing on the map first?

It's sad that for most people advocating for UV they don't see this irony.....

[Secave]

Le 18/02/2018 à 23:11, HerpDerpy a dit :

Pros:

1. Saves buttloads of time

2. much less micromanagement

3. gives people a lot more freedom in terms of what companions they want to use

4. makes resource farming much easier and you dont have to worry about missing anything

5. you don't have to worry about looking around for amo/ energy if you run out because it will just get sucked up into you

Cons:

1.???

 

Id love to see a valid argument from your side of not having it that has some relevance to player experience other than "just don't be lazy" which is no argument at all.

 

This !

There are none. No cons at all. It just allow the player to play the game. You know shooting stuff and using power without jumping around the map like a turd in a hurry when it's the end of a rotation in a defense/interception mission.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

4 hours ago, bronzebonobo said:

this is a video game, the objective is to have fun with whatever pet you choose, when one pet is superior to every other pet you might get the idea to complain about it.

Then perhaps all guns, swords, etc, should have the same stats, as well?  And be purely cosmetic?  

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

I honestly have -never- seen the issue, nor have i had any problems, with collecting resources during missions.  Ever.   I don't understand why a universal vacuum is needed, other than further minmaxing, which in and of itself is not needed.

 

 

[(PSN)HurricaneHugo76]

3 hours ago, Secave said:

This !

There are none. No cons at all. It just allow the player to play the game. You know shooting stuff and using power without jumping around the map like a turd in a hurry when it's the end of a rotation in a defense/interception mission.

Once again, from your myopic point of view you don't see any cons with universal vacuum.

Because you fail to understand that vacuum is not necessary and is merely a convenience item, as such it will never just be granted without restriction or limitation.

And I am speaking as a player who almost exclusively uses vacuum. Having used it for so long and seen the limitation of sentinels it's clear that sentinels are perfectly fine for 90% of the content in the game and only requires intelligent playing for the portions of the STANDARD game in which sentinels are vulnerable.

If your sentinel is dying too quickly to be useful you either haven't built it up properly or you are playing in a manner that is not accounted for in DE designs and therefore not optimized to that manner. DE isn't going to completely change the game after 5 years of design the game without the exclusive use of vacuum.

Edited February 20, 2018 by (PS4)HurricaneHugo76

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

7 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Stop being a $&*^.

Not being a $&*^. Merely pointing out how flawed these arguments are. 

6 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

But you're okay with it magically sucking up large chunks of likely toxic materials into its non-existent backpack?  Totally real.

Maybe look back at my other comments and read them. You’ll find I’m advocating for universal vacuum as a second passive for warframes.

Also if you wish to talk realism in this game, you’d better sit down with a cup of tea because WF is not realistic. A pet running around hovering up resources really isn’t that far fetched in a universe where space magic exists and dogs lay eggs.

6 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

This is NOT designed to be a single-player, one-frame/weapon/pet-to-rule-them-all game.  And yet, people demand that it become that.   

How does asking for vacuum translate to “make this game solo”? Your logic is just as flawed as his.

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

2 hours ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

Once again, from your myopic point of view you don't see any cons with universal vacuum.

There are no cons. You are just posting these extra long paragraphs about how you view the game was designed.

2 hours ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

Because you fail to understand that vacuum is not necessary

Neither is 95% of the stuff we have in game. This really does show how back and forth people are. If Vacuum “is not necessary” and matters so little why kick up such a fuss when people ask for a universal one. Whatever your view on game design or however you’ve interpreted DE’s thoughts on the matter (with no written statements to back it up) it really shouldn’t matter to you that vacuum could be made a toggable option. If you really have that much of an entrenched elitist view on vacuum then you shouldn’t be here.

It amazes me how far people who apparantly don’t care about vacuum are going to try and dissuade people from having it.

2 hours ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

intelligent playing

There’s that elitism shining through again.

2 hours ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

If your sentinel is dying too quickly to be useful you either haven't built it up properly or you are playing in a manner that is not accounted for in DE designs and therefore not optimized to that manner.

In no way can a sentinel survive even if you have built it up properly. It just doesn’t have the same surviviability as a pet. 

Sentinels are one of the old relics from the early days of warframe. All systems are slowly being updated to what the game has evolved into. Parkour 2.0, Damage 2.0, Melee 2.0. All these systems have been updated because the game is very different to when they were introduced. We’re now asking for the pet system to get a revamp as well. Make Sentinels more tanky. Give a universal vacuum.

2 hours ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

DE isn't going to completely change the game after 5 years of design the game without the exclusive use of vacuum.

Funny, I saw this kind of post on a “Give Prime Vault an Accessory pack” thread.

Yes they will. If enough people want it, we will eventually get it. That is how it works. It will not hurt their game design, it will open up more player choice for pets and they won’t feel penalised for their choices. You play games to have fun and if people wish to have vacuum as an optional tool for warframes as it makes the game more fun for them, who are you to argue? 

Edited February 20, 2018 by (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

This just shows that the vast majority are for universal vacuum. Apologies to anyone who isn't for it, but you are in the minority here and businesses do not listen to the minority.

[LinXiaoWong]

This seems won't end without a revolt.

 

Universal vacuum would not be a bad thing if it is implemented on the warframes with a shorter range like 6-7-8 meters because that is an enough sacrifice for the convenience. It could be optional, so in a menu option like the context reload or motion blur or etc so you can turn off if you don't want it others can use it if wants.

This is not against the way how DE imagine the game because they gave us the vacuum for a reason with the carrier introduction and they doesn't thought about a lot when they added. The problem is this game is a loot and grind based game with an amazing mobility system. Players don't want to take every loot by manual because that kills the flow of the mobility system and it is certainly bad. DE shooted their foot badly when they doesn't thought out the mobilty and loot things further than the current way. I can see the reason why they don't want a full ranged vacuum but a medium ranged universal on frames would not hurt.

This opens up more option to use companions without restrictions and also players no need to refuse the loot and drop the mobility. The reason to slow down the game is because the devs doesn't want us to rush the game but with the restrictions they added now everyone almost rush and we looters cannot find anymore enough loot groups because peoples rush everything for fast rewards. They bypassing the content because they doesn't want to grind so the whole system is flawed.

They need to rework the companions and relations to each other and make them independent from the vacuum and add an optional universal vacuum for peoples to bypass the constant rescource collection.

There is more pros than cons but most of the peoples (the vocal minority) loud enough to say in the name of the community no to the univac. The hardtries say the players need to sacrifice things but it is clearly a pure convenience and not a thing that should be sacrificed.

 

The major reason is to not have universal vacuum is the grinding. DE doesn't want us to bypass a major margin which means you need to slow down and loot but it is arguable because sentinels have vacuum.

 

Sentinels all are useful beyond the vacuum, they have their utilities what have also on the other pets too.

 

Pros - They doesn't need maintance at all.

        - they are all ranged.

        - they can help their user because they are close to it.

        - they can loot.

 

Cons - lack of survivability and lack of revives.

         - their mobility is depndant on the user.

         - their weaponry is weaker than the pets attack potential.

 

Pets also useful in different ways because they have potentials.

 

Pros - Their damage potential and boosts are good.

        - Survivability is better, can be revived.

        - They are all more interactive and more personal than sentinels.

        - Fluffy loveable creatures which makes them more needs in emotionaly. They make the feel they are living creatures.

 

Cons - Their maintance costs is not beginner friendly and constantly need to check their status to save them from death.

         - They haven't range potentials so they need to go into a close combat with risk their life.

         - The AI of kubrows and kavats are very basic and lack of complex options and commands.

         - Their mobility can make them versatile but also they can die because going too far from the safe zone.

         - They cannot use vacuum so they cannot loot except Chesas.

 

There is three problems here. First is the grinding, second the warframes mobility, third is the companions and their balance. These three thing is which have serious issues and needs to looked at. De doesn't play their game so often so they just see numbers but if they play for a month at least then they can see this how problematic for new players, or looters whom want their loot without sacrificing the mobility. They need to fix also the rewards and make the matches interesting because the players tend to rush the game contents for fast rewards and ignoring all the levels what they play because it is not convenient and lacking of rewarding gameplay. 

Most of the peoples whom playing long ago are all almost have their loots some of us whom playing long ago also don't have all what we want. There are enough ideas and options and there are posts and posters whom collected all of these things in civil ways so it is on the DE to do it with something. I cannot see why poples not want this options because it is an optional thing and it would not hurt but could help to solve problems too. At least make it up the option to do some meaningful tweaks by the DE part because their stuff is not works how they think it. 

[Serafinia]

9 hours ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

Absolutely not. Vacuum is a rather complex system and had a lot of dependency, another major reason why its not universal, it would create bugs and glitches. Many don't remember the era of Mag pull/Carrier Vacuum glitch which actually forced players to insist people DON'T use vacuum when using mag. The Devs admitted this came because of a conflict between the pull mechanics, drop mechanics, and Vacuum mechanics. I took them quite while to resolve this issue.

So no it wouldn't just be as easy as simple code change.

This one is true and it is a complex dependancy but they can solve these. Maybe not in 30 min but in a couple of weeks.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

39 minutes ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

There are no cons. You are just posting these extra long paragraphs about how you view the game was designed.

Neither is 95% of the stuff we have in game. This really does show how back and forth people. If Vacuum “is not neccessary” and matters so little why kick up such a fuss when people ask for a universal one. Whatever your view on game design or however you’ve intrepreted DE’s thoughts on the matter (with no written statements to back it up) it really shouldn’t matter to you that vacuum could be made a toggable option. If you really have that much of an entrenched elitist view on vacuum then you shouldn’t be here.

It amazes me how far people who apparantly don’t care about vacuum are going to try and dissuade people from having it.

There’s that elitism shining through again.

In no way can a sentinel survive even if you have built it up properly. It just doesn’t have the same surviviability as a pet. 

Sentinels are one of the old relics from the early days of warframe. All systems are slowly being updated to what the game has evolved into. Parkour 2.0, Damage 2.0, Melee 2.0. All these systems have been updated because the game is very different to when they were introduced. We’re now asking for the pet system to get a revamp as well. Make Sentinels more tanky. Give a universal vacuum.

Funny, I saw this kind of post on a “Give Prime Vault an Accessory pack” thread.

Yes they will. If enough people want it, we will eventually get it. That is how it works. It will not hurt their game design, it will open up more player choice for pets and they won’t feel penalised for their choices. You play games to have fun and if people wish to have vacuum as an optional tool for warframes as it makes the game more fun for them, who are you to argue? 

First off, no, nagging DE is NOT how this "works".  DE is always working to improve the game, while consistently moving in the direction of THEIR vision of THEIR creation.  They DO consider out viewpoints along the way, but the final decision is still based on THEIR goals for Warframe, not ours.  If those happen to align, it seems like we persuaded them to do so, but that's not the case.  

Saying that "If Vacuum doesn't matter that much, then why not just give us UV?" is twisting words to make that argument seem more ridiculous than it really is. If UV were togglable, who in their right mind would even bother toggling it off?  The truth of things is that there is no need for another means of using Vacuum.  

Games need balance to keep the player making choices and to prevent us from falling into one win-all build.  This is why DE was trying to change damage up from Slash winning the day all the time, this is why Rivens were introduced (partially), and this is why updates are constantly being made as the game progresses.  The point is to NOT to make things EASIER for the players.  It is quite the contrary.  DE wants to continue to present us with CHALLENGES.  They don't want things to be too easy.  And, judging by many posts here on the forums, the players don't, either.

People constantly complain that the current "endgame" isn't difficult or challenging enough.  DE makes changes to solve that, and people complain things are too difficult now. Can't have cake and eat it too.  

If Warframes can collect items the way current Vacuum mods do now, then that means noone will really need to choose companions for any other reason than CC or Damage, which means MORE minmaxing, which is fine...when it is an OPTION, but it won't be more than a simple accepted matter-of-fact way to build your loadout, just as you currently wouldn't think of building a melee without Pressure Point, and so on.  It will -technically- be optional, but who would opt out of the clearly obvious benefit of doing so?

As for it being a "secondary ability", I again ask, why?  What lore presents itself that these frames suddenly suck stuff up?  And why would they?  The Warframes weer designed (eventually) for, well..WAR, not the spoils thereof.  They don't have mini fridges nor cup holders, either.  The powers they possess are very specific to their lore.  Which, by the way, if you care at all about keeping that lore intact, then use Mag.  If the Vacuum became the norm for all frames, Mag would lose a good bit of her already fleeting functionality. Which would be a shame.  She'd go the way of Carrier.

All in all, the choice is easy - Equip your pet when you're gonna murderbone, and equip your sentinel when you're going to farm.   This is no different than equipping your Loki loadout when you're going to Spy, and your Mesa when you're going to Defense, etc.  It really isn't. 

This isn't an "All or Nothing" argument.  Vacuum functions as it needs to, and there is no NEED to do more with it.  I have had, in my 700+ hours of gameplay, no issues with collecting any needed resources, ever.  Mutagen, included :P   Jumping around is fine with me. We're space ninjas, afer all....Not Space Dysons purchased at BestBuy.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

This just shows that the vast majority are for universal vacuum. Apologies to anyone who isn't for it, but you are in the minority here and businesses do not listen to the minority.

41 people are HARDLY the "vast majority" of Warframe players.  Period.  That's not counting the bias of the title in and of itself, and its tendency therein to drawl a very specific voter.  

If I made a poll about Gun legislation, depending on how I word/title it, I could get an overwhelming (far more than 40 people) majority to vote one answer or the other as well, just based on whose hands I place that paper in.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

Side note on Sentinels as "pets" and their survivability: I regularly take my Helios into Sortie and above and VERY RARELY do I need to worry about it dying.  Because I don't stand around and get shot :P  So they survive just fine so long as you can too.

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

Just now, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

41 people are HARDLY the "vast majority" of Warframe players.  Period.

It actually is as it shows what the mentality of the community. If Univac wasn't wanted, there would be more people against it. "Period".

1 minute ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

That's not counting the bias of the title in and of itself, and its tendency therein to drawl a very specific voter.  

More flimsy dismissals and excuses. The majority want a univac. Deal with it.

 

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

If I get 41 people to say "Destiny 2 rocks!" does that make it "proof"?  Come on, dude, I know you're smarter than that.  Gonna start to think you're just trollin' if you keep it up.

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

Just now, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Side note on Sentinels as "pets" and their survivability: I regularly take my Helios into Sortie and above and VERY RARELY do I need to worry about it dying.  Because I don't stand around and get shot :P 

Sentinels can actually die from ways other than getting shot. Auras and procs for example and splash damage.

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

If I get 41 people to say "Destiny 2 rocks!" does that make it "proof"?  Come on, dude, I know you're smarter than that.  Gonna start to think you're just trollin' if you keep it up.

Yes it does, if there is no one majority around to challenge it and the community has repeatedly said it. Go ahead, make another poll on here or Reddit. See what results you get.

Edited February 20, 2018 by (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

Yes, as can pets.  And frames.  I'm aware.  I've played through, again, well over 700 hrs of Warframe.  And yet, my statement about my Sentinel's survivability still stands true.  Perhaps we should go into a match together and I can show you how to not get shot?

[Rage_Inducer]

"Vacuum is for the lazy"

Yeah 'cuz the game is about doing things the least effective way possible. That's why everybody goes in sorties with unmodded Mag, MK1-Braton, Lato and Skana right?

It's not like the whole game is built around you obtaining the means to obtain more means of obtaining more stuff.

This game is for hardcores only, vacuum casuals should just uninstall and set their PC on fire. Use the MK1-Paris like a true hardcore!

Running and gunning for... FUN!?, I'm sorry but you misspelled "wasting your time walking over everything" like a REAL warframe player.

You're not supposed to bulletjump everywhere, that's why the limit on bulletjumps is there, as well as the lack of bulletjump improving mods.

You're obviously supposed to stick to the ground and hide behind cover just like in Gears of War.

Why would I ever want others to have fun their way? The whole world is supposed to have fun MY way.

I never understand how people can be so blind to the game they claim to spend so long in.

You want a """hardcore""" game? Play something else.

Warframe is a casual game where you have fun your way. Having an option to turn off vacuum in the menu for everyone will just mean that those who like kavats and kubrows won't suffer from picking them and the special snowflakes that don't want it can just turn it off and "enjoy" the game however they like.

I WANT to give DE money for kavat and kubrow cosmetics but I won't because I know I won't use them for anything other than mastery and memes. That's just not right.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

Yes it does, if there is no one around to challenge it. Go ahead, make another poll on here or Reddit. See what results you get.

Done.  Waiting on results now.

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Yes, as can pets.  And frames.  I'm aware.

Pets you can revive. Sentinels you cannot. You can also heal pets with certain mods. Sentinels do not have that.

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Perhaps we should go into a match together and I can show you how to not get shot?

Hilarious. I play Rhino, so I don't really need to worry about getting shot. My Sentinel however does.

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

2 minutes ago, Rage_Inducer said:

Yeah 'cuz the game is about doing things the least effective way possible. That's why everybody goes in sorties with unmodded Mag, MK1-Braton, Lato and Skana right?

Exactly my friend. Exactly. +1

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Done.  Waiting on results now.

Link?

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

2 minutes ago, Rage_Inducer said:

"Vacuum is for the lazy"

Yeah 'cuz the game is about doing things the least effective way possible. That's why everybody goes in sorties with unmodded Mag, MK1-Braton, Lato and Skana right?

It's not like the whole game is built around you obtaining the means to obtain more means of obtaining more stuff.

This game is for hardcores only, vacuum casuals should just uninstall and set their PC on fire. Use the MK1-Paris like a true hardcore!

Running and gunning for... FUN!?, I'm sorry but you misspelled "wasting your time walking over everything" like a REAL warframe player.

You're not supposed to bulletjump everywhere, that's why the limit on bulletjumps is there, as well as the lack of bulletjump improving mods.

You're obviously supposed to stick to the ground and hide behind cover just like in Gears of War.

Why would I ever want others to have fun their way? The whole world is supposed to have fun MY way.

I never understand how people can be so blind to the game they claim to spend so long in.

You want a """hardcore""" game? Play something else.

Warframe is a casual game where you have fun your way. Having an option to turn off vacuum in the menu for everyone will just mean that those who like kavats and kubrows won't suffer from picking them and the special snowflakes that don't want it can just turn it off and "enjoy" the game however they like.

I WANT to give DE money for kavat and kubrow cosmetics but I won't because I know I won't use them for anything other than mastery and memes. That's just not right.

I don't dislike UV because I'm "hardcore".  I'm plenty casual, I assure you.  Ask any one of my followers on my stream.  I dislike the idea of it because it isn't necessary, and what you're asking for already exists with Sentinels...or Kubrow, for that matter....y'all just wanna take a mile when given several inches.

[Vox-Lunaris]

il y a 1 minute, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu a dit :

I don't dislike UV because I'm "hardcore".  I'm plenty casual, I assure you.  Ask any one of my followers on my stream.  I dislike the idea of it because it isn't necessary, and what you're asking for already exists with Sentinels...or Kubrow, for that matter....y'all just wanna take a mile when given several inches.

You're wasting your time talking to him, trust me, this will go nowhere. He's either too stupid or too arrogant to listen. A look at his other comments here will show you.