Here is why we dont need kuva endless to scale

[DeMonkey]

9 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

That's the point! The mode is designed to be "complete" at 20, hence the aabc rotation. Anything after that is just extra. 

The mission is supposed to force you out based on it becoming more difficult and not worth it.

 

That's the point!

Some people don't want that. You can go on and on about how it's "designed" to be complete after 20 minutes all you want, that's what people are asking to change.

I for one am tired of boring little missions, the update that reduced the time required in Sortie Survivals was anti fun for me, but for many other people it made their lives easier because so many people want to get their reward in 10 minutes.

That's what Siphons are for.

Edited March 31, 2018 by DeMonkey

[Grimmstyler]

2 minutes ago, fluffysnowcap said:

so im not allowed to disagree?

Nor do you have to put in any work?

 

18 minutes ago, Grimmstyler said:

I mean.. Why is it called a Kuva Endless? Mostly for the Kuva.. This topic hasnt came up before Kuva could be extracted from a Endless Kuva Survival.. There was no Kuva reward.. No one hosted a Kuva Endless before.. But now they do and want change..

Its fine how it is.. If the enemies are too hard.. Extract.. But if your doing it for the Kuva, It doesnt mean the level needs to be changed.. It doesnt mean you should get more Kuva cause you want that perfect Riven..

 

[zWhiteKz]

2 minutes ago, fluffysnowcap said:

so im not allowed to disagree?

Nor do you have to put in any work?

u are allow to disagree just dont bring different topic and de-rail the conversation we try to have

[Mizarul]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Grimmstyler:

I think DE made this game for everyone to play.. Not just people with higher skill levels receive better loot.. Going a hour + is really just a player desire.. RNG decides whos king of the Hill for loot 

Altright look. You might project your own ideas onto my posts. So let me spell it out for you,

I want better rewards for staying longer. Those who stay a singular rotation can do that and get the regular reward. If you feel like you have to stay long then get a dedicated group wiuth meta loadout and get increasingly good rewards. It's just this simple equation that holds ground in life. More effort is better in the long run.

Now please stop strawmanning and make a nice, good and concise argument as to why they shouldn't implement scaling rewards.

 

[fluffysnowcap]

13 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

That's the point! The mode is designed to be "complete" at 20, hence the aabc rotation. Anything after that is just extra. 

The mission is supposed to force you out based on it becoming more difficult and not worth it.

 

Then why can you continue? Why is there a leader board? WHY? JUST WHY!?

[Grimmstyler]

4 minutes ago, Mizarul said:

Altright look. You might project your own ideas onto my posts. So let me spell it out for you,

I want better rewards for staying longer. Those who stay a singular rotation can do that and get the regular reward. If you feel like you have to stay long then get a dedicated group wiuth meta loadout and get increasingly good rewards. It's just this simple equation that holds ground in life. More effort is better in the long run.

Now please stop strawmanning and make a nice, good and concise argument as to why they shouldn't implement scaling rewards.

Because its a grind game.. They want you to come back for more.. Not just do multiple hour missions and move on to the next game.. Thats dedication 

Edited March 31, 2018 by Grimmstyler

[zWhiteKz]

cause people want to show off that what leaderboard for ... SHOW OFF 

[IceColdHawk]

1 minute ago, fluffysnowcap said:

Then why can you continue? Why is there a leader board? WHY? JUST WHY!?

Or why does DE rework frames to have scaling abilities?

Questions over questions...

[fluffysnowcap]

11 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

Remember fissure "require" u to sacrafice something aka relic to get the bonus and have a cap, then we use kuva to get more kuva? that not really a good idea with the current scaling system and tower get 1 shot very fast 

Replace the fifth scaling reward with a planet it pacific rare resource and BAM job done suddenly it's not broken.

[Mizarul]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Grimmstyler:

Because its a grind game.. They want you to come back for more.. Not just do multiple hour missions and move on to the next game.. Thats dedication 

Altight let me counter your argument real simple then.

You do multiple runs which equate to hour long missions.

Why are you still playing then? The result is the same right now.

Simple: We're having fun but want to be properly rewarded.

Also please stop strawmanning. You are starting to disrail the topic and are being patronizing.

[IceColdHawk]

1 minute ago, Grimmstyler said:

Because its a grind game.. They want you to come back for more.. Not just do multiple hour missions and move on to the next game.. Thats dedication 

Would be true if it wasn't for kuva. You can literally never get enough kuva. You can always roll and always will need more rivens to roll for. Unlike controle modules, you can't get into a "have enough" state.

About the moving on to the next game thing...if a game offers no endgame for vets to play, they might as well just think "Screw this, i'm leaving!" since no reason to play anymore. So this argument is moot.

[Grimmstyler]

5 minutes ago, Mizarul said:

Altight let me counter your argument real simple then.

You do multiple runs which equate to hour long missions.

Why are you still playing then? The result is the same right now.

Simple: We're having fun but want to be properly rewarded.

Also please stop strawmanning. You are starting to disrail the topic and are being patronizing.

im replying to your replies.. If you go back a couple pages you can see how you replied to my reply.. 

Why am i still playing? Because i love this game..  Why are you still playing?

Really thats what its all about is the fun.. If its about the rewards.. Why you want scaling rewards?

Like i said

18 minutes ago, Grimmstyler said:

I think DE made this game for everyone to play.. Not just people with higher skill levels receive better loot.. Going a hour + is really just a player desire.. RNG decides whos king of the Hill for loot 

 

[fluffysnowcap]

9 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

u are allow to disagree just dont bring different topic and de-rail the conversation we try to have

Im bringing up the issue of unrewarding endless missions and the fact that endless hasn't been touched since update 19 and that was a bolt-on for the update 7 endless.

So yes i am going to disrail the topic to say this game mode suffers a lot from being 5 years old with virtually no changes in its life span. 

Hence the consistent point i have argued for, adding a relic free version of the endless void fisher rotation to all endless modes. Yes it will buff kuva gains for long missions but will also buff polymer bundles & plastids farming.

[Mizarul]

Gerade eben schrieb Grimmstyler:

im replying to your replies.. If you go back a couple pages you can see how you replied to my reply.. 

Why am i still playing? Because i love this game..  Why are you still playing?

Really thats what its all about is the fun.. If its about the rewards.. Why you want scaling rewards?

Like i said

 

I want scaling rewards because not having them is hindering my playstyle of wanting to go long. Therefore in the long run I lose the fun of the game and start only logging in until content comes along.

Also it's nice you stopped strawmanning. However you went on to use ad hominem on me. 

Mak a concise argument why scaling rewards shouldn't be in the game.

[Grimmstyler]

1 minute ago, Mizarul said:

I want scaling rewards because not having them is hindering my playstyle of wanting to go long. Therefore in the long run I lose the fun of the game and start only logging in until content comes along.

Also it's nice you stopped strawmanning. However you went on to use ad hominem on me. 

Mak a concise argument why scaling rewards shouldn't be in the game.

Again.. in past tense..

13 minutes ago, Grimmstyler said:

Because its a grind game.. They want you to come back for more.. Not just do multiple hour missions and move on to the next game.. Thats dedication 

 

[fluffysnowcap]

12 minutes ago, Grimmstyler said:

Because its a grind game.. They want you to come back for more.. Not just do multiple hour missions and move on to the next game.. Thats dedication 

Your actively defending a soul destroying gameplay loop, Do you have no shame.

What next Defending EA's microtransaction practices?

[Mizarul]

Gerade eben schrieb Grimmstyler:

Again.. in past tense..

 

That isn't an argument. That's an assumption. If that would be all it took to get people to leave then warframe wouldn't have stood for that long.

[Grimmstyler]

1 minute ago, fluffysnowcap said:

Your actively defending a soul destroying gameplay loop, Do you have no shame.

What next Defending EA's microtransaction practices?

I have no shame because anyone can willingly Uninstall the game..

Edited March 31, 2018 by Grimmstyler

[Grimmstyler]

1 minute ago, Mizarul said:

That isn't an argument. That's an assumption. If that would be all it took to get people to leave then warframe wouldn't have stood for that long.

No.. thats a fact.. all you have to do is scroll to earlier replies.. Because your having me post the same reply twice

[fluffysnowcap]

2 minutes ago, Grimmstyler said:

I have no shame because anyone can willingly Uninstall the game..

 

1 hour ago, fluffysnowcap said:

 

Really?

 

Yes water is still wet.
My point is still valid. All you have done is demonstrate you lack considering alternative ideas to your own

 

 

[Mizarul]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Grimmstyler:

No.. thats a fact.. all you have to do is scroll to earlier replies.. Because your having me post the same reply twice

If it's a fact then prove your point. Until it's proven it's merely an assumption. You saying it shouldn't be because you don't like the idea of scaling don't make it a fact btw.

[-Temp0-]

В 30.03.2018 в 13:37, Zhoyzu сказал:

Kuva scaling is a poor solution. I know it, DE knows it. Other people know it.

A flat increase in kuva so that it is on par with the gains per minute doing siphons (including loading screen times) is all this endless mode needs. I approximate 250-275 kuva hits the mark.

Reasons we dont want scaling kuva are because of trolls and grief-ers. Some people like to stay a long time and others do not.

Please don't be *** ridiculous.

The only reason you have no scaling rewards is because it would be 'too good'.

Your "problem" with griefers can be solved as simple as inviting people manually and not jupming in a random pug mission expecting it to last over 20 minutes - cause what a bummer, it never works.

[Sonicbullitt]

3 hours ago, Maercurial said:

I disagree, I see the "bigger picture" and I see that Warframe lacks endgame, because for some reason a few people are afraid of endgame and don't want to see anything else but a quick spam of missions to be rewarded. If we look at the bigger picture, Warframe absolutely needs to reward Endurance type modes, because that's what is currently missing. A mode where not every setup works, but where you need to have proper gear to go further for better rewards, an area which possibly already starts on a higher level, that's my definition of endgame. There's no "unhealthy" meta in survival, because so many things are viable, if someone cheeses it with Ivara, who cares, let them do it, their own fault for not trying other things. 

The argument that it shouldn't be done because of Cheese is utter nonsense, every mode in the game can be cheesed with a certain setup, if that was the reasoning for not adding a mode, then Warframe wouldn't be able to add anything new.

We have so many quick mission types, but zero incentive for anything else. Give the many people that like Endurance at least something. With so many asking for a scaling reward, I hope DE will change their mind eventually, because their current stance on the issue is just plain bad. 

 I completely agree, so many people here cannot see that too much of the game is already hit and run, there is no sustainable content and scalable endless while a simple fix, is quite an effective one for an easy way to add at least some form of incentive for challenging ones self. I have said this before many times and I will say it again endless missions with scalable rewards within a limit cap has no downsides on the player base, it is a net positive.

The only people that seem to be in disagreement are those selfish enough to not to let others reap the rewards of their time and effort put in, while they want all the rewards with none of the time or effort put in to earn them. So much of Warframe already caters to these people, so I cannot for the life of me understand why after all this time when the veterans ask for something simple like scalable endless modes, people are so opposed to this when it does not infringe on them negatively whatsoever.

The strawmen I keep seeing are things like, "oh it will be too overpowered" or "oh it will be too easy to earn kuva or other rewards," or "oh they can just cheese it" when everyone knows this is a load of BS. All of those things are a false narrative, that is easily debunked. 

*First of all a correctly balanced scaling endless mode, will be balanced accordingly with the scaling reaching a cap at a certain point. With a reward system rewarding players for longer periods of time spent in the mode, while at first starting lower amounts than the siphons, gradually over time the rewards would even out with siphons then after more period of time spent, surpass it. Thus there will be two modes catering to two kinds of players, the kind that want their kuva fast and get out and the kind that want to put more time in to get better rewards.

*Secondly as I stated just prior, this mode should not be overpowered at all , since ideally it would take more time to make a profit for the time put in, quick runs will not and should not reward the same or even close amounts to the kuva siphons, they only reward more after having put in a decent amount of time into the mode. Kuva and rivens are essentially an endgame feature for veterans and other long time players, so it only makes sense that those players would stand to gain the most from an endless scaling kuva mode. Not to mention the kuva fortress is  a high level tileset anyway new players should be be going there in the first place. As such newbs and casuals should not be the deciding factor , for a mode intended for the higher rank, veterans and experienced players.

*Finally addressing the last strawman, "cheesing" the game mode. Who defines what is and is not "cheese ?" If min maxing and getting most out of the game is "cheesing," then I must not be playing this game correctly. Most if not all of Warframe's game modes by this definition have been and still are being "cheesed." Players will always find a way to complete something as efficiently as possible, where is the harm in that, if they are not hacking, exploiting glitches and bugs, or griefing others in some way ?

For the most part warframe, is a very stat based game, like an RPG, you won't get very far if you don't use mods, rank up your weapons and warframes, or if don't mod smartly for example. So I cannot understand why people claim this is a bad thing when it brings no harm to anyone, so what if someone plays a certain way ? If they want to play that way let them, we are free to offer our opinions and criticism of someone, but to claim that it factually brings harm to you is complete nonsense.

/rant over, sorry there is no TL:DR

 

Edited March 31, 2018 by Sonicbullitt

[WhiteCr0w]

3 hours ago, Maercurial said:

I disagree, I see the "bigger picture" and I see that Warframe lacks endgame, because for some reason a few people are afraid of endgame and don't want to see anything else but a quick spam of missions to be rewarded. If we look at the bigger picture, Warframe absolutely needs to reward Endurance type modes, because that's what is currently missing. A mode where not every setup works, but where you need to have proper gear to go further for better rewards, an area which possibly already starts on a higher level, that's my definition of endgame. There's no "unhealthy" meta in survival, because so many things are viable, if someone cheeses it with Ivara, who cares, let them do it, their own fault for not trying other things.

This thread is about Endless Kuva and the possibility for scaling rewards. Where does "endgame" fit into that? These forums are nothing but strawman after strawman; people bringing up other issues with the game attempting to fit them into something that doesn't apply. Are you saying Endless Kuva scaling should be endgame? Endless missions in general? Ignore the fact it was designed to fit between a siphon and flood?

You're making points about the lack of endgame in Warframe, how Endless missions could be more difficult and rewarding, and slapping that on Kuva endless. And people praise this for being "logical". I can't stand these forums anymore. I'm done.

[Sonicbullitt]

10 minutes ago, WhiteCr0w said:

This thread is about Endless Kuva and the possibility for scaling rewards. Where does "endgame" fit into that? These forums are nothing but strawman after strawman; people bringing up other issues with the game attempting to fit them into something that doesn't apply. Are you saying Endless Kuva scaling should be endgame? Endless missions in general? Ignore the fact it was designed to fit between a siphon and flood?

You're making points about the lack of endgame in Warframe, how Endless missions could be more difficult and rewarding, and slapping that on Kuva endless. And people praise this for being "logical". I can't stand these forums anymore. I'm done.

I don't think you know what a straw man is, his argument and lines of thought are logical and make sense, I don't see much if any flaws in his line of thinking. Yours on the other hand leaves little to be desired.

Edited March 31, 2018 by Sonicbullitt