Nuke Trinity OP ?

[LordNero86]

The more threads like this pops up, the more likely DE notices and deduct from the impression made. It's up to DE though if they want to do something about it or not.

For me personally, I don't mind if DE want to balance something or some combo that doesn't fit their idea of balance and fair play. Its their game. Players will have to adapt to how DE wants their game played

[Andaius]

On 4/4/2018 at 7:43 AM, aligatorno said:

It's not as lazy, but it's as brain dead as them. Cast link > Throw Castanas > Jump > Detonate > Rinse&Repeat. 

This seems to be more hassle then just killing them with your weapons in the first place! Why not just mow them all down with your primary in the time it takes for you to throw and jump and hit your detonate key? Hell if you actually just throw them at the enemy in the first place they will kill just as good!

[rune_me]

20 minutes ago, Andaius said:

This seems to be more hassle then just killing them with your weapons in the first place! Why not just mow them all down with your primary in the time it takes for you to throw and jump and hit your detonate key? Hell if you actually just throw them at the enemy in the first place they will kill just as good!

Because it reached across an entire defense map. And through walls. By the time you've run up to the enemies with your gun, Trinity has long since killed them. Or herself, about half the time, but that's another story.

[Andaius]

12 minutes ago, rune_me said:

Because it reached across an entire defense map. And through walls. By the time you've run up to the enemies with your gun, Trinity has long since killed them. Or herself, about half the time, but that's another story.

Can link really get that much range? It's been a while since I started mine up again but I don't recall link being all that long ranged...

[rune_me]

2 minutes ago, Andaius said:

Can link really get that much range? It's been a while since I started mine up again but I don't recall link being all that long ranged...

Yeah it has a 20m range just at base. So if you go all out range, you should be able to get it up to around 60m.

[Andaius]

2 minutes ago, rune_me said:

Yeah it has a 20m range just at base. So if you go all out range, you should be able to get it up to around 60m.

Hmm the more you know....I still think it's not very good to try and kill your self and hope you happen to fail...

[dwqrf]

Two years ago, when trinity could reach 99% damage reduction, and link 3 enemy at all time, could shoot herself in the feet with a kulstar all day and literally nuke everything in Draco without any risk of dying. That was the golden age of Cerata trinity.

Now, it's way more tedious, as she doesnt reduce her incoming damage if no enemies are in link range, and cant spam explosive risking her own death ; reducing her weapon pool to do this trick. And even then, she only has a 75% damage reduction, at best. So no, the actual trinity link-self damage trick is not op. It's strong, maybe, but what isnt ?

Edited April 6, 2018 by dwqrf

[Arniox]

On 4/4/2018 at 8:19 PM, Doomsknight said:

As many of you may know, recently nuke build Trinity got popular since this build just overwhelmes basically every mission in the game (from low level to high level, a nuke tri can just kill every enemy within a ridiculous range faster than any other frame, even nuke frames like Saryn, Mesa, Banshee, etc can hardly compete with her)

So when you got a nuke Tri in your squad, enemies just all died even before you can see them spawn, which is insane. A supposed-to-be-support frame can nuke the whole map faster than any other frame, isn't this shiz broken ?

simple answer: no.

1 - It's a very unique build that's hard to setup

2 - It requires a specific way to play which is both annoying but not cheesy

3 - It only kills 3 enemies at any given time. Spamming it still only kills 3 enemies at a time, so it's relatively slow.

4 - It's using mechanics that have been around for a long damn time. The damage itself is not that much, but it's the fact that she's stripping armour at the same time that makes it even remotely powerful. Armour is like the big warframe BALANCE piece. Without it, enemies are piss easy. If you remove armour at all, in any situation and the enemies have no counter to you, they die very quickly. Corpus have shields and alot of counters. Energy drainers, shield drainers, massive slash damage output, snipers, and nullies. Whilst the infested have armoured targets, poison, gas, knockdown and so on. If you have the grineer and you take their armour away, they really don't have a counter to you at all.

If DE ever really consider nerfing this combo, they shouldn't touch trinity herself, but instead create a very powerful counter to the ability to remove all armour. The fact we can remove armour is a HUGE advantage to us and makes any grineer enemy easy to kill. Maybe adding shields when the grineer have no armour, or adding a nullifyer version for grineer might be a good balance.

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

I have seen this once, tried it myself once and then forgot about it.

[Avynire]

Don't ask for nerf, join the party. 

[(PSN)Crixus044]

3 hours ago, dwqrf said:

Two years ago, when trinity could reach 99% damage reduction, and link 3 enemy at all time, could shoot herself in the feet with a kulstar all day and literally nuke everything in Draco without any risk of dying. That was the golden age of Cerata trinity.

Now, it's way more tedious, as she doesnt reduce her incoming damage if no enemies are in link range, and cant spam explosive risking her own death ; reducing her weapon pool to do this trick. And even then, she only has a 75% damage reduction, at best. So no, the actual trinity link-self damage trick is not op. It's strong, maybe, but what isnt ?

Exactly. Really, everything is powerful in its own way on normal conttent because normal content is too low. This combo just gets a lot of kills over higher dps combos because it spreads its DPS across a wide area, where a bunch of enemies WAY under level and with health low enough for this thing to kill take massive hits. This combo is about the same as equinox is on earth. It's a good combo in a bad space. Put this up against a few level 200s, where our DPS actually matters, and this combo doesn't hold up.

[Sqecmi]

В 06.04.2018 в 07:26, (PS4)Crixus044 сказал:

Put this up against a few level 200s, where our DPS actually matters, and this combo doesn't hold up.

there are none in actual game, because there no reward for killing that stuff. current actual endgame is sortie3 survival level, about 100ish.

with about 200 str this build destroys lvl3 armored sortie survival.

 

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

You can never nerf us!

Nerf Banshee.

Nerf Ember.

See where we are now?

Now, nerf Trinity.

We have Saryn.

We have Equinox.

We have Mesa.

Hail Hydra!

[angias]

il y a 49 minutes, OoKeNnEtHoO a dit :

You can never nerf us!

Nerf Banshee.

Nerf Ember.

See where we are now?

Now, nerf Trinity.

We have Saryn.

We have Equinox.

We have Mesa.

Hail Hydra!

Saryn was buffed

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

Just now, angias said:

Saryn was buffed

I meant to say.. it doesn't makes sense to keep on nerfing frames because of the same old reason over and over again.

The most recent ones were Ember and Banshee.

Now, people have brought back Trinity Link build.

So, even if we nerf Trinity for the same old reason again, we will always come up with another build that does the same thing.

Saryn spore build is one. Equinox slash AOE build is one. Mesa spinning left click is one.

It's never gonna end if we keep doing this.

Even if we nerf Trinity, Saryn, Equinox and Mesa, we will eventually find another build in a new frame or an existing one to do the same thing.

This cycle never ends and it's been there since day 1 from 5 years ago.

At this point, almost every single frame has been nerfed before, save a few, so either DE does not know what they are doing at all and just blindly making changes or we are not solving anything because there was never a real problem to solve.

How many nodes are there in the star chart?

How many complaints are always about Hydron, an AOE frame and its small map?

How many nerfs and changes actually made any significant changes?

[RayxAyanami]

No. Y'all need to stop overreacting to everything.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

10 hours ago, Sqecmi said:

there are none in actual game, because there no reward for killing that stuff. current actual endgame is sortie3 survival level, about 100ish.

with about 200 str this build destroys lvl3 armored sortie survival.

 

This is incorrect. T3 sortie isn't our endgame. We don't currently have an endgame readily available. There is in actual game, but the time to reach there is too long for most casual players. This is the issue, the levels we are given, not the items we are using.

You haven't been around long enough, so I don't blame you for not knowing this, but back in 2015, our highest level in-game was level 50. People said level 50 was endgame, while endurance runners would take it to the level 100s. Forum people in their vast brilliance said in one hand that there was no real reward for going endgame, so level 100 shouldn't be our balancing point, yet on the other hand, they wanted stuff nerfed because endurance runners were using it as an advantage on the leaderboards and for prime part farming. Remember, we had weaker gear back then, but level 50 was still chump change, much like it is now. Level 100 was a legitimate challenge, thus DE introduced Trials and sorties. Then, we got power creep up the booty. Now in 2018, level 100 is chump change and the community is asking for a challenge. It's starting to really feel like 2015 again. Eidolons was a start, and onslaught/kuva floods is proof that the argument of "T3 sortie is endgame" has been false is finally coming around to light. Higher levels are coming, and if you stick to this idea that level 100 is what you amount to, you're gonna be left behind.

You gotta look at the numbers to really know what's going on. Link is in essence a 3x damage multiplier because it redirects the damage to 3 links. A sancti castanas give me 82725 radiation damage with max stats. That's 248174 damage total for all 6 charges. The reason why you see so many kills is because link spreads that dps across the entire room, so if you're dealing 248174 damage with a charge but the enemies you're fighting have 25k Ehp, then one charge will kill up to 10 enemies. Considering reload and fire rate, you're actual dps is 185322, which is MUCH lower than what most combos are capable of, so really, this combo is not powerful.

The reason it feels powerful is the same reason Mesa feels powerful, effective dps. Effective DPS is how quickly you can spread your DPS and how efficiently it is spread. Let's say you do 100k damage with a sniper, but can only kill enemies at a rate of 3 per second, your dps is 300k. If your enemies have 25k EHp each, your effective DPS is 75k. While a combo like trinity that only has 200k dps can spread that dps across all enemies at once, so his effective DPS is 200k. If enemies had enough EHp to actually make use of the dps, effective dps wouldn't be so out of wack.

If I'm getting to complicated for you, let me know, but this is the truth and actual reasoning right here. Balance is all math, and here it is.

[Sqecmi]

26 минут назад, (PS4)Crixus044 сказал:

This is incorrect. T3 sortie isn't our endgame. We don't currently have an endgame readily available. There is in actual game, but the time to reach there is too long for most casual players. This is the issue, the levels we are given, not the items we are using.

endgame is where largest reward stays.

since void key are not an issue bragging about lvl 10004 enemies lost any point\

kuva and index are suboptimal to stay for too long, you are hurting your rewards.

Edited April 12, 2018 by Sqecmi

[(PSN)Crixus044]

6 hours ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

I meant to say.. it doesn't makes sense to keep on nerfing frames because of the same old reason over and over again.

The most recent ones were Ember and Banshee.

Now, people have brought back Trinity Link build.

So, even if we nerf Trinity for the same old reason again, we will always come up with another build that does the same thing.

Saryn spore build is one. Equinox slash AOE build is one. Mesa spinning left click is one.

It's never gonna end if we keep doing this.

Even if we nerf Trinity, Saryn, Equinox and Mesa, we will eventually find another build in a new frame or an existing one to do the same thing.

This cycle never ends and it's been there since day 1 from 5 years ago.

At this point, almost every single frame has been nerfed before, save a few, so either DE does not know what they are doing at all and just blindly making changes or we are not solving anything because there was never a real problem to solve.

How many nodes are there in the star chart?

How many complaints are always about Hydron, an AOE frame and its small map?

How many nerfs and changes actually made any significant changes?

I call this the wack-a-mole effect. DE's version of nerfs is a game of whack-a-mole because where one dies, another pops up, especially since they keep introducing stuff like Rivens and Condition Overload. People will always look for the best and use it. If DE wants to really get balance, bring out the enemies that actually challenge the combo's performance. Balance is relevant to who you fight.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

8 minutes ago, Sqecmi said:

endgame is where largest reward stays.

since void key are not an issue bragging about lvl 10004 enemies lost any point\

kuva and index are suboptimal to stay for too long, you are hurting your rewards.

Read the rest of my post. I address this.

[Sqecmi]

16 минут назад, (PS4)Crixus044 сказал:

Read the rest of my post. I address this.

if need to stay forever i will reqruit squad of ivaras.

i personally can easily handle level 600 or so, thanks to condition overload.

and im specifically talking about effectiveness of link in current top content. if i need to move further i will, and i will abandon link if it feels ineffective, im melee fan after all.

but when you need the job done as fast as possibele, link is far stronger than mesa, where it matters.

Edited April 12, 2018 by Sqecmi

[(PSN)Crixus044]

6 hours ago, Sqecmi said:

if need to stay forever i will reqruit squad of ivaras.

i personally can easily handle level 600 or so, thanks to condition overload.

and im specifically talking about effectiveness of link in current top content. if i need to move further i will, and i will abandon link if it feels ineffective, im melee fan after all.

but when you need the job done as fast as possibele, link is far stronger than mesa, where it matters.

I don't disagree with that, but as I said, that's an issue of what is important over what it does. Like I said, the best way to push out an OP combo is put it up against a tougher enemy. No need for nerfs or buffs, let the performance decide what works. I'm just thankful that earth isn't where it matters, otherwise, Equinox would be OP. It's just looking at it from a different side. Whenever we've gone on a nerf/buff streak, it's caused more problems than it helped. Whenever we've added higher level content, it's fixed just about everything.

[Sqecmi]

1 час назад, (PS4)Crixus044 сказал:

Like I said, the best way to push out an OP combo is put it up against a tougher enemy.

well, this logic didnt work with ember. sadly. 

[(PSN)Crixus044]

1 minute ago, Sqecmi said:

well, this logic didnt work with ember. sadly. 

what you mean? The logic was only used long before ember got her WoF change, and it was successful

Edited April 13, 2018 by (PS4)Crixus044

[Sqecmi]

Только что, (PS4)Crixus044 сказал:

what you mean?

she was never strong even at sortie level, but she destroyed starchart. that seems to be enough for nerf.

she actually still destroys starchart, just locked out from newer players, because of specific builds