Can we get some update on the chat moderation?

[Xion]

If you've ever been accidentally kicked from a chat, especially one of the 3 public chats, then you probably know how unfair it feels. It's a 24hr suspension with no way of removing it, from either party, but I think that a way to remove it should be added.

The system would be similar to Youtube's demonitization system; if an automated system demonetizes the video, the holder can appeal it, in which case a real person will review the video in question and decide whether or not it deserves the demonetization. It would be the same thing for chat suspensions. In the case where one person kicked another player, the appeal will go to the kicker, where they can decide to remove the suspension or not. However, for automatic moderators in the public chats, they obviously cannot decide for themselves whether to remove the suspension or not, so the responsibility will have to go to someone else. In this case, we can either have other players decide or have support decide.

If the responsibility goes to other players, then it will have to be an opt-in program. I'm thinking either individual volunteers from the Guides of the Lotus, since they've already been deemed to be trustworthy, or separate groups of players who vote on the decision, tribunal style. If the decision goes to the support desk, then it poses a risk of flooding support even more. Also, it'll need to be highly prioritized to have any real meaning, since it doesn't really do any good to get a 24hr suspension appealed after 23hrs have passed. However, it does have the added benefit of having the player be able to give additional context with screenshots or extra information that may help their case for a more honest experience.

 

_{And yes, I did just get kicked from chat..}

Spoiler

_{The other person did not get kicked.}

 

Edited April 15, 2018 by Xion

[AXCrusnik]

Are you sure it's 24hrs for any kick? Seems pretty harsh for something that so easily produces false positives such as the situation you find yourself in currently. IMO they shouldn't resort to a 24hr kick unless you make multiple offenses in a short period of time. Start with 1 minute, then 5-10m, then an hour, then 24.

Edited April 15, 2018 by AXCrusnik

[Sean]

27 minutes ago, AXCrusnik said:

Are you sure it's 24hrs for any kick? Seems pretty harsh for something that so easily produces false positives such as the situation you find yourself in currently. IMO they shouldn't resort to a 24hr kick unless you make multiple offenses in a short period of time. Start with 1 minute, then 5-10m, then an hour, then 24.

It's a minimum of 24 hours, some people it appears to extend for weeks.

Seen quite a few people actually screencap what they said that triggered the bot, and yet they were banned for weeks after that point.

 

The system is broken and DE refuses to address it.

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

Guys, I feel like too much of this topic has been talking about whether certain things should be against the rules or not. This isn't the issue. The issue is how chat moderation works. When you get suspended, there is no way to know why you got kicked and no way to know how long it will last. That just isn't fair when it comes to honest mistakes, especially since sometimes chat suspensions are delayed and you might not remember what you said five minutes ago. Instead of just saying "Your access to in-game chat has been suspended" it should say
"You have been suspended from in-game chat for saying 'I love Minions!' Remaining suspension duration: 22h".

If Trade Chat can have a timer until you can post again, so can everything else. 

[nerfinator6]

10 hours ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

Minus the part that requires chat mods to be on (I believe there are 3 total in NA on XB1, BTW) isn't this how it already works?  Chatbot is a force censor that simply looks for filtered keywords and bans based on that.  I'm not seeing the problem.

No, it's not.  I should not have to opt-out of hearing slurs, and people who use them should not be allowed the privilege to use the chats.

I'm sure kickbot just decided to do that to you for no reason.  /s

If all that happened were a little kick from region, then no one would feel the sting and people wouldn't care about getting bans.  And, the chat would be toxic and full of slurs.  No thanks.  If you show that you can't responsibly use the chat, then those privileges should be revoked.  When you give a child a time out, you don't let them do other things during their time out because you need the lesson to stick.

Saying "When Boron" is worty of a day's ban?

[Get_Singed]

I've been kicked from region chat once because I had caps lock on, which I feel is a fair thing to kick for, and from recruiting chat once for accidentally posting a WTB offer there. Unlike what you are all saying, the chat restriction only lasted for a single mission in each case after which I was able to rejoin the chat channel, and I was not restricted on any other chat channels than the one I was removed from in both cases. I don't really see how anyone could "accidentally" say a bannable word without realizing they'd be banned for it. There's literally no reason to ever use the word "gay" in any public chat channel under any circumstance. Just accept that you shouldn't be rude and shouldn't be talking about controversial topics in a game and suddenly you won't be chat banned. Simple.

[Sean]

39 minutes ago, Get_Singed said:

I've been kicked from region chat once because I had caps lock on, which I feel is a fair thing to kick for, and from recruiting chat once for accidentally posting a WTB offer there. Unlike what you are all saying, the chat restriction only lasted for a single mission in each case after which I was able to rejoin the chat channel, and I was not restricted on any other chat channels than the one I was removed from in both cases. I don't really see how anyone could "accidentally" say a bannable word without realizing they'd be banned for it. There's literally no reason to ever use the word "gay" in any public chat channel under any circumstance. Just accept that you shouldn't be rude and shouldn't be talking about controversial topics in a game and suddenly you won't be chat banned. Simple.

 

Going to chalk this up to ignorance, but there are numerous words and phrases that even basic cable can say that can occur in normal conversation that can lead to a full ban from 24h to several weeks. Fun fact when it comes to the word "gay", how about when someone asks the name of a particular Warframe streamer? That seems like a very easy reason to use that particular word and not mean it to discuss a person's sexual orientation.

[Get_Singed]

2 minutes ago, Sean said:

 

Going to chalk this up to ignorance, but there are numerous words and phrases that even basic cable can say that can occur in normal conversation that can lead to a full ban from 24h to several weeks. Fun fact when it comes to the word "gay", how about when someone asks the name of a particular Warframe streamer? That seems like a very easy reason to use that particular word and not mean it to discuss a person's sexual orientation.

AGGP. Much much easier to type than "A Gay Guy Plays." And again, I've been playing this game for years and both my chat restrictions were caused by my own stupid fault and not because of the chat filters being wrong or overly sensitive. If I can make it that long without being banned from chat I can't see why other people can't do it.

[Sean]

Just now, Get_Singed said:

AGGP. Much much easier to type than "A Gay Guy Plays." And again, I've been playing this game for years and both my chat restrictions were caused by my own stupid fault and not because of the chat filters being wrong or overly sensitive. If I can make it that long without being banned from chat I can't see why other people can't do it.

It isn't uncommon for people to ask what that means, then there's also the inconsistencies with the chat where one person can be banned while the next isn't.

I've been banned by the bot by saying the exact words "fuck you bot", just as a brief moment of levity due to its auto-response that was completely out of place/incorrect (hell, I followed it with a clem emote). I've seen people tell people those words, to repeatedly insult and harass, and use whatever various slurs they could think of, but each and every one of them weren't banned (and yes, there was a bot present in those chats).

 

I see more people more often being banned by saying something completely inoffensive, or, at most, something that could be considered "profane" (and I mean basic cable level), then be banned.

 

The system is busted, plain and simple.

It doesn't say the "why" a ban occurs, it doesn't give a duration, it doesn't follow a user's Profanity Filter Settings (Why even have a toggle? If it's an issue, then just force it ON in specific chats).

 

If people had custom filter lists, then the majority of the issue is solved. People who don't care what words people use could then just turn it off completely, those that do (such as parents), could customize the list, add the various words/phrases that already don't even get caught by the bot, and it could even have a password lock. If anyone is truly being hurtful, then best to report and ignore them.

 

 

...but hey, let's just keep pretending the current system isn't broken and that DE made it flawlessly.

 

 

 

[Daxturus]

I kinda just want to keep this going. 

On 4/11/2018 at 11:01 PM, (XB1)Mr Calverley said:

Host migration is the biggest troll of all...

Indeed. 

"Host migration in progress... Please wait."

And you never saw your friends again

On 4/11/2018 at 5:50 AM, Ferah_Frithu said:

Most of them have claimed that they were "just joking", though I can't see the humor in saying "ur mum gay" in a game chat, unless you're on of those self-proclaimed "edgelords".

They are joking. They say it because it's stupid, I said it because it's stupid... It's funny in an ironic way. It's like saying something like "my cheese is purple oOoOoOo yummie"... it's because it's completely idiotic. (i made myself laugh with that one.) Usually the true m33mers don't say things because they think it makes them cool, they say it because it makes them and their friends laugh. They are just joking. Usually. Unless they're a six year old, in which case they aren't. Not at all. Ew, six year old gamers.

 

Also, why do you get completely suspended from ALL chat just because you get suspended from Region? You should at least be banned from all but PMing with friends you made before you were suspended. I got suspended (luckily I made it through the week), and it was aweful... :c ok maybe not that bad but it was just really... lonely. 

[Fallen_Echo]

10 hours ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

The problem with that is that we can usually infer what word was used by the context.

Just as @Sean said a customizable chat filter would fix that too and also lets not go that far that we are banning people because %!=(+ can mean any insult you think of. Thats borderline thoughtcrime system.

[Fallen_Echo]

6 hours ago, Xion said:

_{And yes, I did just get kicked from chat..}

  Hide contents

_{The other person did not get kicked.}

 

This thing should have never become a banable offense, seriously.

4 hours ago, Get_Singed said:

I don't really see how anyone could "accidentally" say a bannable word without realizing they'd be banned for it. There's literally no reason to ever use the word "gay" in any public chat channel under any circumstance. Just accept that you shouldn't be rude and shouldn't be talking about controversial topics in a game and suddenly you won't be chat banned. Simple.

You know whats funny, theres a brief time in the morning when you can freely say gay and you never get kicked for it. Its inconsistent.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Fallen_Echo

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

13 hours ago, Sean said:

 

Filters in their current forum are chat specific, this would remove any word or phrase that you deemed to be inappropriate, such as the numerous things that already would not get flagged by the bot.

The current system just doesn't work, it either doesn't catch things actually insulting or it catches things that are really perfectly fine. The slurs you're mentioning that you'd see are ones that you'd ALREADY see in the current system.

 

And yes, the problem is that people can usually infer what word is intended, but then if you can customize the list, you'd know to then add that into your list.

So, if the filters are chat specific...isn't that what we're talking about filtering?  Either way, no to your last point.  Again, it should not be opt-out to remove slurs from the chat.  I should not have to go through my filters and make sure I put in all the slurs that I know to filter them out so that people can use slurs as much as they like in the chats.  That's putting the onus on the targets of the slurs to opt-out as well as not punishing and holding responsible those who use slurs to begin with and make chat a toxic place.

6 hours ago, Sean said:

Going to chalk this up to ignorance, but there are numerous words and phrases that even basic cable can say that can occur in normal conversation that can lead to a full ban from 24h to several weeks. Fun fact when it comes to the word "gay", how about when someone asks the name of a particular Warframe streamer? That seems like a very easy reason to use that particular word and not mean it to discuss a person's sexual orientation.

And, whose fault is it?  It's the fault of all the little edgelords that want to use gay as a slur.  You want to complain to someone?  Complain to those people who have ruined it for everyone else.

6 hours ago, Daxturus said:

Also, why do you get completely suspended from ALL chat just because you get suspended from Region? You should at least be banned from all but PMing with friends you made before you were suspended. I got suspended (luckily I made it through the week), and it was aweful... :c ok maybe not that bad but it was just really... lonely. 

Because when you send a child to time out, you don't allow them to go hang out with their friends.  If using slurs only booted you from one chat, most people who get a kick out of being "edgy" would abuse this to no end.  They would rubbish up the chat, get booted, then go hang with their friends until their chat is back - at which point they would just go and rubbish up the chat again.

3 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Just as @Sean said a customizable chat filter would fix that too and also lets not go that far that we are banning people because %!=(+ can mean any insult you think of. Thats borderline thoughtcrime system.

Thoughtcrime?  Really?  It's not thoughtcrime when you actually put your thoughts into action.

If a slur is simply converted to punctuation marks, but can be easily inferred from the context, then your filter has done nothing useful at all.

[Fallen_Echo]

22 minutes ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

Thoughtcrime?  Really?  It's not thoughtcrime when you actually put your thoughts into action.

If a slur is simply converted to punctuation marks, but can be easily inferred from the context, then your filter has done nothing useful at all.

Okay now you %+//+==* enough with it.

 

Now that was a sample message but now go and try to infer what was behind those.

Do you really want to penalize people for what you thought can be behind random characters?  Who says they need to convert it into punctuation marks or whatever they could simply put on a [redacted] sign on all words they deem to be offensive enough.

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

3 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Okay now you %+//+==* enough with it.

 

Now that was a sample message but now go and try to infer what was behind those.

Do you really want to penalize people for what you thought can be behind random characters?  Who says they need to convert it into punctuation marks or whatever they could simply put on a [redacted] sign on all words they deem to be offensive enough.

Yes, I do.  And, here's why.

The person did type the word.  The bot knows what word was typed.  The person took an action to put a slur into the chat and attack all people that the slur is aimed at.  That is an action that merit a suspension (at least) and I don't think the system should be designed to protect that person's actions from censure or punishment.

And, again, if the word can be inferred from the context, then you've done nothing to actually address the issue of slurs in chat.  Do you think I care if someone has the letters blocked when the message is still there that I am not welcome due to the slur that is in the chat and aimed at me?  This system would do less to get rid of bad actors and more to add to the toxic content of chat.

[Fallen_Echo]

57 minutes ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

Yes, I do.  And, here's why.

The person did type the word.  The bot knows what word was typed.  The person took an action to put a slur into the chat and attack all people that the slur is aimed at.  That is an action that merit a suspension (at least) and I don't think the system should be designed to protect that person's actions from censure or punishment.

And, again, if the word can be inferred from the context, then you've done nothing to actually address the issue of slurs in chat.  Do you think I care if someone has the letters blocked when the message is still there that I am not welcome due to the slur that is in the chat and aimed at me?  This system would do less to get rid of bad actors and more to add to the toxic content of chat.

We are talking about the bot what bans or not bans you for saying gay, trap or gender. The bot what censores the word balls.

Unless that bot is getting perfected and the mods are no longer humans with different political views the system never gonna be perfect, but you know what?

Answer this simple question and well see how we continue this.

Would you be okay if the system would just replace the whole text with [redacted] if it had a word what was currently in your chat filter (you get a basic filter what you can add in or remove words)?

 

This removes your problem that the context can be offending (thought i do not agree with this because honestly this sounds like im trying to talk to overly sensitive persons who are scared of potential meanings) and if it gets implemented with the suggested changes it help to greatly reduce the salt generated by this awful system.

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

1 hour ago, Fallen_Echo said:

We are talking about the bot what bans or not bans you for saying gay, trap or gender. The bot what censores the word balls.

Unless that bot is getting perfected and the mods are no longer humans with different political views the system never gonna be perfect, but you know what?

Answer this simple question and well see how we continue this.

Would you be okay if the system would just replace the whole text with [redacted] if it had a word what was currently in your chat filter (you get a basic filter what you can add in or remove words)?

 

This removes your problem that the context can be offending (thought i do not agree with this because honestly this sounds like im trying to talk to overly sensitive persons who are scared of potential meanings) and if it gets implemented with the suggested changes it help to greatly reduce the salt generated by this awful system.

The bot won't be perfect, but it is necessary.

To your specific question, no, I'm not OK with that.

It's a step in the right direction, but the issue is that I should not have to opt out.  And, it does nothing to actually clean up the chat.  You seem to be laboring under the impression that no harm is done by slurs in the chat so long as only people who are not offended by them notice them (or at least people who are not the targets of these slurs).  The existence of slurs in the chat is harmful to the community.  They need to be removed, and the people putting them there need a time out (at least).  It's not enough to simply hide the slurs and allow the bad actors to continue on as if they've done nothing wrong.

[Fallen_Echo]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

The bot won't be perfect, but it is necessary.

To your specific question, no, I'm not OK with that.

It's a step in the right direction, but the issue is that I should not have to opt out.  And, it does nothing to actually clean up the chat.  You seem to be laboring under the impression that no harm is done by slurs in the chat so long as only people who are not offended by them notice them (or at least people who are not the targets of these slurs).  The existence of slurs in the chat is harmful to the community.  They need to be removed, and the people putting them there need a time out (at least).  It's not enough to simply hide the slurs and allow the bad actors to continue on as if they've done nothing wrong.

Do you know why i opted out of the chat filter ingame? Because i dont care about anything it could throw at me.

The fact is no harm were done if the soo called slurs dont appear to people who dont want to see them. You are laboring under the impression that each and every one of the guys and girls here think that everything in the chat ban list is bad.

Meanwhile we know that the word gender, gay, trap and balls are inside that filter and its harmful, because if you havent noticed it most of these threads are started by gay people or players who think that this is not an insult. This is harboring a feeling that DE is trying to silence the members of lgbt.

You seem to be offended that these words might appear in your chat meanwhile i think no one should feel offended especially in this paranoid way, where we ourselves try to put words behind masks to feel offended.

IF someone has said something bad enough i suggested a report system what can ban him and if no mod is around the bot would just auto censore all what they say for all parties, chat filter users and free speeching ones.

[Sean]

2 hours ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

So, if the filters are chat specific...isn't that what we're talking about filtering?  Either way, no to your last point.  Again, it should not be opt-out to remove slurs from the chat.  I should not have to go through my filters and make sure I put in all the slurs that I know to filter them out so that people can use slurs as much as they like in the chats.  That's putting the onus on the targets of the slurs to opt-out as well as not punishing and holding responsible those who use slurs to begin with and make chat a toxic place.

And, whose fault is it?  It's the fault of all the little edgelords that want to use gay as a slur.  You want to complain to someone?  Complain to those people who have ruined it for everyone else.

Because when you send a child to time out, you don't allow them to go hang out with their friends.  If using slurs only booted you from one chat, most people who get a kick out of being "edgy" would abuse this to no end.  They would rubbish up the chat, get booted, then go hang with their friends until their chat is back - at which point they would just go and rubbish up the chat again.

Thoughtcrime?  Really?  It's not thoughtcrime when you actually put your thoughts into action.

If a slur is simply converted to punctuation marks, but can be easily inferred from the context, then your filter has done nothing useful at all.

 

It's like you're TRYING to not actually comprehend what I'm saying.

 

I'll use all caps:

IT IS NOT OPT OUT TO REMOVE SLURS.

 

The Bot in its current form CANNOT DETECT SLURS WHEN A PERSON CHOOSES TO BE HURTFUL.

It is easy enough for a truly hateful person to change up a word just enough for the bot to detect.

 

The only thing that would be opt out is the fact that you would be able to SEE what people type. It'd be similar to how you can TURN OFF the Profanity Filter that is currently in the game, but just that the filter would be FAR MORE CUSTOMIZABLE, and the bot wouldn't be needed to auto-ban.

 

A proper customizable profanity filter would affect all chats, allow for a parental lock, and, because of its customizable nature, allow you to add any slur/insult that the bot (EVEN IN ITS CURRENT FORM) that the bot does not know of.

 

 

I'll make a few main points to try and make this as clear as possible:

• By DEFAULT, the current filter used by the bot would be ENABLED (just without need of a bot) and work across all chats
  •  This includes all words and phrases that the bot currently knows of
• The CUSTOM FILTER would then allow you to ADD ON with other words and phrases that you feel are inappropriate
• If a person chooses to disable the filter, then that is their choice
  • THIS WOULD NOT AFFECT OTHER PEOPLE'S SETTINGS (much like the current "toggle" for the Profanity Filter)
• For anyone truly hateful, you'd just right-click on their name and hit REPORT

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

10 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Do you know why i opted out of the chat filter ingame? Because i dont care about anything it could throw at me.

The fact is no harm were done if the soo called slurs dont appear to people who dont want to see them. You are laboring under the impression that each and every one of the guys and girls here think that everything in the chat ban list is bad.

Meanwhile we know that the word gender, gay, trap and balls are inside that filter and its harmful, because if you havent noticed it most of these threads are started by gay people or players who think that this is not an insult. This is harboring a feeling that DE is trying to silence the members of lgbt.

You seem to be offended that these words might appear in your chat meanwhile i think no one should feel offended especially in this paranoid way, where we ourselves try to put words behind masks to feel offended.

IF someone has said something bad enough i suggested a report system what can ban him and if no mod is around the bot would just auto censore all what they say for all parties, chat filter users and free speeching ones.

First off, profanity is not the same as slurs.  Profanity filter is for filtering out profanity, not for slurs.  I thought we had come to agreement on that, but you're once again conflating profanity with slurs.  They are not the same.

And, yes, harm is done even if no one who is targeted by the slurs sees them, because it engenders a toxic community and a hostile environment.  You may think dropping the N-word is fine and dandy, but that doesn't make it so.

And, no, most of these threads are not started by LGBTQIA people who got hit with the filter.  That's just plain not true.  Most, from what I've seen, have been people who rightly got suspended from chat for being derogatory, even while claiming they were just joking or whatever.

And, now you're going towards the "no one should feel offended" route.  Slurs cause actual harm.  It's not solely about offense, but the actual, real world harm that comes from a society that engages in, encourages, and facilitates the dehumanization of individuals that aren't in the majority.

Simply hiding slurs and allowing that person to continue to be toxic is NOT a solution.

16 minutes ago, Sean said:

It's like you're TRYING to not actually comprehend what I'm saying.

Write more clearly and answer questions that ask for clarification.  It shouldn't be that hard.

17 minutes ago, Sean said:

The only thing that would be opt out is the fact that you would be able to SEE what people type. It'd be similar to how you can TURN OFF the Profanity Filter that is currently in the game, but just that the filter would be FAR MORE CUSTOMIZABLE, and the bot wouldn't be needed to auto-ban.

We already have chat filters.  I have no idea what you're on about.

17 minutes ago, Sean said:

I'll make a few main points to try and make this as clear as possible:

• By DEFAULT, the current filter used by the bot would be ENABLED (just without need of a bot) and work across all chats
  •  This includes all words and phrases that the bot currently knows of
• The CUSTOM FILTER would then allow you to ADD ON with other words and phrases that you feel are inappropriate
• If a person chooses to disable the filter, then that is their choice
  • THIS WOULD NOT AFFECT OTHER PEOPLE'S SETTINGS (much like the current "toggle" for the Profanity Filter)
• For anyone truly hateful, you'd just right-click on their name and hit REPORT

Isn't this how it already works?  We have a chat filter, don't we?  One can put any words one wants in the chat filter and it will not appear, correct?  Am I wrong about that?  I fail to see what you're actually proposing.  Are you proposing to remove the bot in favor of the chat filter?  If so, then I disagree with that strategy for all the reasons I've been listing over and over to people who refuse to actually engage with my arguments.

[Sean]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

First off, profanity is not the same as slurs.  Profanity filter is for filtering out profanity, not for slurs.  I thought we had come to agreement on that, but you're once again conflating profanity with slurs.  They are not the same.

And, yes, harm is done even if no one who is targeted by the slurs sees them, because it engenders a toxic community and a hostile environment.  You may think dropping the N-word is fine and dandy, but that doesn't make it so.

And, no, most of these threads are not started by LGBTQIA people who got hit with the filter.  That's just plain not true.  Most, from what I've seen, have been people who rightly got suspended from chat for being derogatory, even while claiming they were just joking or whatever.

And, now you're going towards the "no one should feel offended" route.  Slurs cause actual harm.  It's not solely about offense, but the actual, real world harm that comes from a society that engages in, encourages, and facilitates the dehumanization of individuals that aren't in the majority.

Simply hiding slurs and allowing that person to continue to be toxic is NOT a solution.

Write more clearly and answer questions that ask for clarification.  It shouldn't be that hard.

We already have chat filters.  I have no idea what you're on about.

Isn't this how it already works?  We have a chat filter, don't we?  One can put any words one wants in the chat filter and it will not appear, correct?  Am I wrong about that?  I fail to see what you're actually proposing.  Are you proposing to remove the bot in favor of the chat filter?  If so, then I disagree with that strategy for all the reasons I've been listing over and over to people who refuse to actually engage with my arguments.

The current filters are NOT meant to be profanity filters, they are mainly for trade chat. While they can be USED as such, that isn't their focus and it shows in their design. These trade-chat style filters that are currently implemented do not carry with you to some random squad you join or some relay you go to.

 

There should NOT be an AUTOMATED system that bans over words, most of the time it is incorrect. Just flat out, that shouldn't happen.

If people choose to KEEP ENABLED a profanity filter AND ADD IN OTHER PHRASES / WORDS so they don't have to see some word that hurts their fragile sensibilities, then they would be able to. The CURRENT SYSTEM shows insults / slang-terms / workaround-words and there's nothing you can do to change that, AGAIN which is why it'd be better if you could CUSTOMIZE it, then you could block all of them.

A parent can then even LOCK the filter (which cannot be done currently) to prevent their child from disabling it, and all of this would be found in the Game Settings. The removed words also wouldn't show up across the top of your chatbox.

 

 

4 minutes ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

Write more clearly and answer questions that ask for clarification.  It shouldn't be that hard.

Really? lmao

I've said numerous times that the filter would be enabled by default, then you keep saying that you "should not have to opt out to see slurs" which is literally the exact opposite of what I KEEP SAYING. Honestly, I'm done here, it's either you are too blind or you are simply trolling.

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

33 minutes ago, Sean said:

The current filters are NOT meant to be profanity filters, they are mainly for trade chat. While they can be USED as such, that isn't their focus and it shows in their design. These trade-chat style filters that are currently implemented do not carry with you to some random squad you join or some relay you go to.

I was not aware of that.  Is it possible to make a filter that would do that?

34 minutes ago, Sean said:

There should NOT be an AUTOMATED system that bans over words, most of the time it is incorrect. Just flat out, that shouldn't happen.

From my experience of reading all the threads from people using slurs who got banned, it is not incorrect most of the time.  In fact, it appears to me to be correct most of the time.

And, again, if you want to get rid of the bot, then talk to the edgelords that think using slurs is appropriate or funny.  It is their fault that DE has had to resort to using a chatbot.

35 minutes ago, Sean said:

If people choose to KEEP ENABLED a profanity filter AND ADD IN OTHER PHRASES / WORDS so they don't have to see some word that hurts their fragile sensibilities, then they would be able to.

Seriously, can we get past this whole idea that it's about people's "fragile sensibilities?"  Words matter.  People freak out constantly over their freeze peach because words matter (even though these same people will constantly talk about how words have no power).  What you are trying to do is minimize the harm that is done by slurs and put the blame for that harm on the people those slurs are intended to harm.  That's not cool and you should stop it.

37 minutes ago, Sean said:

Really? lmao

I've said numerous times that the filter would be enabled by default, then you keep saying that you "should not have to opt out to see slurs" which is literally the exact opposite of what I KEEP SAYING. Honestly, I'm done here, it's either you are too blind or you are simply trolling.

Yes, because if I have to maintain a filter, then it is opt-out by default.  Even if you have a default list, the fact that I have to manually go in and maintain that list makes it opt-out.  This is especially true since you are advocating the removal of kickbot.  Why would we maintain a list for kickbot if there is no kickbot.  You're being contradictory, all in the name of trying to make a debate point, and cheaply at that.

The sad fact of the matter is that too many immature edgelords have decided that using slurs in chat is fun/funny/cool/whatever, and DE has implemented a kickbot to combat them, and rightly so.  It would be nice if people from the LGBTQIA community could self-identify (as this community is just as bad as any other community is assuming that everyone on the other end of the connection/keyboard is a straight, cis-gendered, white male.)  But, we know what happens when DE allows those types of dual-use words to be used - the use of them as slurs far outweighs the legitimate uses (regardless of your contentions that the bot is wrong most of the time).

[Fallen_Echo]

1 hour ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

First off, profanity is not the same as slurs.  Profanity filter is for filtering out profanity, not for slurs.  I thought we had come to agreement on that, but you're once again conflating profanity with slurs.  They are not the same.

We indeed came to agreement on that, im talking about my updated filter what takes out everything what might offend someone.

 

1 hour ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

And, yes, harm is done even if no one who is targeted by the slurs sees them, because it engenders a toxic community and a hostile environment.  You may think dropping the N-word is fine and dandy, but that doesn't make it so.

And, no, most of these threads are not started by LGBTQIA people who got hit with the filter.  That's just plain not true.  Most, from what I've seen, have been people who rightly got suspended from chat for being derogatory, even while claiming they were just joking or whatever.

And, now you're going towards the "no one should feel offended" route.  Slurs cause actual harm.  It's not solely about offense, but the actual, real world harm that comes from a society that engages in, encourages, and facilitates the dehumanization of individuals that aren't in the majority.

Simply hiding slurs and allowing that person to continue to be toxic is NOT a solution.

You can drop the N-word fine and dandy currently, all you need to do is to come up here early when the bot doesnt even kick for saying gay, even in the last comments i proposed that 4 reports are enought to auto censore someone if hes gone too far and once a mod logs in he can ensure to give him proper penalty if he really overstepped the border.

Its already bad enough that we have to deal with trap, gender and balls being on the banlist i dont want to see the cycle continue where colors and slight assuptions with memes gets random words bannable offense.

I presonally commented in 4 threads last year where people expressed their hatred that they cant call themselves gay because of the stupid filter and honestly i agree with them.

We live in the modern age if someone offends you i have soo far gave you atleast 3 ways to deal with them, the option to censore them, to mute them and to report them.

Have you ever seen what heppens in the late/early hours in the chat where the mods are not up and the bot is seemingly offline? Atleast with my system the situation can be controlled and the harmful elements can be thinned out.

[(XBOX)weedyodaa]

I can understand the concept of people getting banned for saying things like "trap," or "gay," or other things that could potentially offend someone, and that's fine, but there's the occasionally complaint filed in the forums, about them getting banned for saying "Is Nezha a trap?" And then DE would swoop in, shut down the thread, and give them a piece of advice and go complain on the support page. 

But an issue is people not recieving a warning for accidentally typing "WTB" in region filter, because I've seen people get banned for it. But then there's other things where people outright should get banned for, like saying a racial slur, which could get them banned for a day or two, maybe even a week. I think, as of now, the bots are fine, and people who make a comment that could potentially offend someone should be banned for making an attempt.

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

16 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

We indeed came to agreement on that, im talking about my updated filter what takes out everything what might offend someone.

It's still conflation, and I still disagree that simply having a filter is the solution.

18 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

You can drop the N-word fine and dandy currently, all you need to do is to come up here early when the bot doesnt even kick for saying gay, even in the last comments i proposed that 4 reports are enought to auto censore someone if hes gone too far and once a mod logs in he can ensure to give him proper penalty if he really overstepped the border.

That's a problem with the bot not being on all the time.  It should be.

18 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Its already bad enough that we have to deal with trap, gender and balls being on the banlist i dont want to see the cycle continue where colors and slight assuptions with memes gets random words bannable offense.

Those aren't random words (especially not trap, which has a derogatory meaning when used in that context - guess how many threads people have started to complain about being banned for using that word in a derogatory way...)

20 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

I presonally commented in 4 threads last year where people expressed their hatred that they cant call themselves gay because of the stupid filter and honestly i agree with them.

And, as I've said, I agree with that.  It would be nice is LGBTQIA people could self-identify, if only to combat the tendency of people online to assume that the person on the other end is a straight, cis-gendered, white male.  (You even assumed "he" in your comment that I'm responding to.)  It's unfortunate that DE doesn't have a way of dealing with the toxicity of the slurs that go with those self-identifications.  The best solution, so far, for DE has been to punish the wrong-doers with a time out.

23 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

We live in the modern age if someone offends you i have soo far gave you atleast 3 ways to deal with them, the option to censore them, to mute them and to report them.

Muting and censoring does not solve the problem of slurs in the chats.  Reporting people is a good option for when the bot doesn't pick it up.  I fail to see why all issues have to be done through a report, however, that puts even more strain on the mods and allows people to get away with far more than they currently do.

25 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Have you ever seen what heppens in the late/early hours in the chat where the mods are not up and the bot is seemingly offline? Atleast with my system the situation can be controlled and the harmful elements can be thinned out.

The solution isn't to scrap the bot and add an opt-in system that allows people to use slurs and get away with no punishment.  The solution is to have the bot be on 24/7.  Bots don't need sleep.