Nekros soul punch, use on revives to decast them?

[Sparlock]

How about a way to remove "bad" revives? For instance soul-punching them away to make room for a recently killed eximus.
 

[(XBOX)ShadowBlood89]

suggesting something like a CC stun or knockback on enemies within certain range to allow the reved ally to have time to get to safetyy

[taiiat]

hmm, perhaps. though please make it a Hold Cast that gives some sort of 'will hit here' indicator so you can accurately aim at the right Shadow and not accidentally punch the wrong one or hit more than one when you didn't mean to.

[MarcusGraves]

Really they could just make it so you get a free ghost by punching it out of the enemy and cap it at like 2-3 freebie ghosts that don't factor into Shadows of the Dead.

Added bonus would be Soul Punched targets are marked to be attacked by your ghosts to be able to direct them some. The ghost AI is incredibly dumb and they never actually follow you unless you keep recasting 4 to bring them back to you.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

The ballistica prime can do it but nekros cant, because it makes sense.

[NinjaZeku]

14 hours ago, Sparlock said:

How about a way to remove "bad" revives? For instance soul-punching them away to make room for a recently killed eximus.

Problem is, your Shadows aren't just gonna stand still right next to you :P

It's a common suggestion, but TBH, I don't really like "forcing" synergy (and additional Energy costs) like this when
1) the base functionality of Soul Punch should get a long hard looking at before adding anything else
2) it could just be part of SOTD, e.g. simply hold 4 to gradually release Shadows that are lowest on the summon priority list

[NezuHimeSama]

You can recall your shadows by recasting 4, so not being nearby isn't an issue.

Something automated like holding 4 isn't going to give the priority the player wants at that moment. Allowing Soul Punch to remove a shadow makes perfect sense imo. Make it work like EV in terms of targeting when using it on shadows, and have them explode and deal 10/15/20/30%*str of their remaining health to enemies within 3/5/7/10*range meters or something.

Edited April 19, 2018 by NezuHimeSama

[NinjaZeku]

2 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

You can recall your shadows by recasting 4, so not being nearby isn't an issue.

That costs 100 Energy (plus 25 for Soul Punch), and then another 100 to replace the Shadow(s) you just dismissed.
And even assuming your Shadows all do correctly teleport right near you,
they'll start moving off right away, making it a gamble whether you can find the unwanted Shadow(s) in time
(or hit them without another Shadow getting in the way).

2 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Something automated like holding 4 isn't going to give the priority the player wants at that moment.

How so? When would you not want to replace the weakest Shadow to make room for an Eximus / whatever?

[NezuHimeSama]

4 hours ago, NinjaZeku said:

That costs 100 Energy (plus 25 for Soul Punch), and then another 100 to replace the Shadow(s) you just dismissed.
And even assuming your Shadows all do correctly teleport right near you,
they'll start moving off right away, making it a gamble whether you can find the unwanted Shadow(s) in time
(or hit them without another Shadow getting in the way).

How so? When would you not want to replace the weakest Shadow to make room for an Eximus / whatever?

25+6.25+25 tbqh. Not that Nekros is an energy starved frame to begin with, or that it's explicitly necessary to summon shadows to bank them. Never mind that you can tie the soul punch energy cost into replacing the shadow.

When you don't want a nullifier bubble in your way? When you don't like the behavior of a particular unit? When the "weakest shadow" according to the game isn't actually the weakest shadow to have?

[(PSN)CannaWhoopazz13]

A way to kill shadows would be REALLY nice, especially when you're running with a healer.  I like this idea!  I see no real abuse with this.

[KnightCole]

Nekros should have innate ability to unsummon and resummon minions at will, as well as an inherrent ability to heal his own crap.  Use Soulpunch and return a % of the dmg to his summoned minions.

[NinjaZeku]

28 minutes ago, KnightCole said:

Nekros should have [...] an inherrent ability to heal his own crap.

That's part of what recasting his 4 while active already does.

3 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

25+6.25+25 tbqh.

Now I'm curious, what build are you running, that allows max Efficiency?

(My Nekros all-round build only has base Efficiency, heh.)

[NezuHimeSama]

Pretty standard max-range support build. All in on range, low str, high eff.

I also have some other builds that would probably work fine even with low efficiency as well, but max eff is pretty much the first thing to put on almost any frame if you aren't running a Energize build or expecting EV trin.

[NinjaZeku]

7 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Pretty standard max-range support build. All in on range, low str, high eff.

I mean, sorry but, if you're using a build that doesn't really support the use of Shadows
(you didn't even mention Duration so I assume that's tanked, as well),
it seems a bit wrong to use your max Efficiency in that specific build as an argument that Energy costs are entirely a non-factor.

(Not saying I'm generally having trouble with Energy, Despoil + Equilibrium FTW,
but multiple casts of [base Efficiency] SOTD in quick succession are a slightly different matter.)

Anyway, to get back to the point of the topic lol, I certainly wouldn't whine about Soul Punch "dismissal synergy" if it happens,
it's just, like I said, any changes to Soul Punch I'd much rather be prioritized on the base functionality.

... and thus, with SP actually being something you'd want to fling around more frequently in combat,
you just might end up accidentally dismissing your best Shadows, so that's another thing I feel iffy about.

Hm, maybe give Soul Punch a hold function instead? :D
Hold 1 to enter "Shadow targeting mode" in which your Shadows get highlighted and have their names appear over them,
including through walls (within ~50m or so), possibly even slow them down a bit / have them stop for easier targeting,
and releasing 1 while aiming at a Shadow (again, including through walls) will then dismiss them
(plus have some kind of effect, be it radial damage or whatever, occur to justify the loss of that Shadow / the SP casting cost).

[NezuHimeSama]

Duration is usually 105% unless you're building str as well. There's also Primed Flow if your energy pool is too small, or a Drift.

Like I said, I've never had problems with Nekros' energy economy, and even if the recasting of Shadows of the Dead is such a burden, you don't need to require recasting it to get a new unit. If anything, Shadows of the Dead energy cost should be looked at based on present and maxed shadows. Healing shadows should cost energy based on the relative amount of their health pool healed anyway, but that's a discussion for another topic; You can have Soul Punching a shadow automatically revive a new shadow in it's place, or make an augment do that for people who want to be able to get rid of their shadows altogether on a whim.

A hold and release mechanism would also be fine, and I like the idea of targeting through walls within 50m, but I think you'd have a hard time aiming that far at that point anyway. It could also play into a charge mechanism for soul-punch in terms of it's general use that might make it interesting to use. This could also combine with Soul Punch dealing (mhp-hp)*0.5~0.2(charge, 1s?)*str Finisher damage to all enemies within ~10m of the affected enemy rather than being a projectile at all. Scales off enemy HP, but only via damage currently dealt to the enemy, and the effect on Shadows would be the opposite; the more HP it has, the beefier the boom.(since they're dead, aka inverted life)

 

[Sparlock]

I use this setup. I never run out of energy. Shadows are plenty strong up to sorties level. Shield of shadows make nekros a tank. If you get swarmed, terrify will save you. I can keep shadows healed as long as I want. And with 100% range dessecrate is still quite good, just have to do some running.

Only downside is when I get some good units, only way to shadow them, is to hope the weak ones die off first.

I don't mind energycost, just need a way to get the new eximuses in. Hold 4 to remove lowest tier also sounds ok, even though I would prefer targeting.