Plz keep channeling

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

26 minutes ago, Canach said:

I'm confused by the YTube video I saw on it - What about when we don't channel, is that still going to be an option? or is tossing out a melee strike during a gun-fight going to be nerfed or the same as a 'light' strike?

It also looks like channeling energy is going to be a non-issue, wasting the Inaros Rage/Glad.Resolve build I have on him.

Anybody know when these changes are supposed to occur? Is it on a schedule yet?

Indeed, and If they are talking about making heavy attks consume ur combo counter... That right ther is stupid.

[LuckyCharm]

5 hours ago, (XB1)Stryke 07 said:

i have a nekros build, revolving around.. growing power, shield of shadows, despoil, equilibrium, health conversion, and i forget the rest. then i use my fav melee wep with a riven that has only +dmg and +channelling dmg. with nekros despoil i channel at all times to keep a drain on energy to also keep health orbs flowing wich also keeps health conversion armor orbs up. all works very well into an amazing and very tanky farming machine. so i loved channeling with this frame at least....i can still spam other abilities to compensate so not a huge issue

the one thing i am curious about is how it will effect the channeling dmg buff on the riven

Interesting, and your despoil still works on disintegrated corpses even though they're no longer there? Mines never done that. 

[NezuHimeSama]

We don't have enough mod space on melee weapons for channeling.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

11 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

We don't have enough mod space on melee weapons for channeling.

Use zenurik for efficiency, and Exodia valor if a crit build, or brave for energy regen, or triumph for status. Simply beautiful.

@LuckyCharm my desecrate works on channel kills.

[NezuHimeSama]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Use zenurik for efficiency, and Exodia valor if a crit build, or brave for energy regen, or triumph for status. Simply beautiful.

@LuckyCharm my desecrate works on channel kills.

'kay how does that give me more mod slots for melee weapons?

And aren't Exodia arcanes only for Zaws?

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

1 hour ago, NezuHimeSama said:

'kay how does that give me more mod slots for melee weapons?

And aren't Exodia arcanes only for Zaws?

Yep only for zaws... Zaws are incredibly endgame. 

[NezuHimeSama]

Do they have 13+ mod slots? I don't remember them having 13+ mod slots.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

9 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Do they have 13+ mod slots? I don't remember them having 13+ mod slots.

Theres enough slots to incorporate channeling mods.

[NezuHimeSama]

Only if you don't have any good mods...

Crit weapon? Needs blood rush, drifting contact or bodycount, organ shatter, gladiator might if you can fit it

Status weapon? Weeping Wounds, Drifting Contact, Condition Overload...

Always need Primed Pressure Point, almost always Primed Fever Strike, riven is a good idea if it's disposition isn't S#&$, and then there's Primed Fury or Berserker, depending on how fast you want to go, and Primed Reach on anything with good range scaling... For crit weapons, that can easily be everything. And then if it's slide crit, you can't even fully optimize crits because you don't have space.

And you would take one of these out for... Channeling damage? Really?

The only thing channeling is good for is adding to your red crit scaling with it's bugged math, assuming that still works.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

46 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Do they have 13+ mod slots? I don't remember them having 13+ mod slots.

Theres enough slots to incorporate channeling mods.

My favorite crit/channeling build.

Primed pressure.

Primed reach

Gladiator rush

Gladiator might

Gladiator vice

Killing blow

Drifting contact

Primed fever

Favorite CO channeling

CO

Virulent

Vicious

Volcanic

Voltaic

Killing blow

Primed pressure

Primed reach or primed fever or primed fury or drifting contact, depending on the weapon.

[NezuHimeSama]

Giving up more capable mods that provide free damage for channeling damage doesn't make much sense tbqh.

Also, apparently channeling adds into the same stack as the combo multiplier, further diminishing it's value. That +120% channeling damage is actually only +60% damage while channeling and only if your combo counter is at 0. Just fyi.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Melee_2.0#Channeling

Edited May 16, 2018 by NezuHimeSama

[KochDerFrettchen]

9 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Are you new? Base channeling... No mods, gives u a 50% dmg increase which stacks with Condition overload/Crit modifiers.

Add in any channelling dmg increase whatsoever whether it comes from exodia arcanes, mods, or rivens... And u have a weapon that can easily out damage most warframe powers. 

Keepin in mind that u can channel while using exalted blade/primal fury/landslide/whip claw etc... And they benefit from all channeling dmg modifiers coupled with crit/status modifiers.

So... Tell me again why the glowy sword isn't worth the miniscule energy cost especially coupled with the zenurik bonuses?

Fyi... U can turn the left click, into a toggle. 

Are you new? 50% damage is nothing compared to what a few incredibly broken melee mods do. :v

^{and they don't cost energy}

Edited May 16, 2018 by KochDerFrettchen

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

1 hour ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Giving up more capable mods that provide free damage for channeling damage doesn't make much sense tbqh.

Also, apparently channeling adds into the same stack as the combo multiplier, further diminishing it's value. That +120% channeling damage is actually only +60% damage while channeling and only if your combo counter is at 0. Just fyi.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Melee_2.0#Channeling

Um, did u actually read this?

 

Additionally, +50% increase to damage over time per tick from statuses, e.g., slash or toxin, when they are applied while channeling.

Damage bonus from channelling and combo counter stack additively with each other, as per the formula:
Effective Damage Multiplier = 1 + (Channelling Multiplier - 1) + (Combo Multiplier - 1)
As example while channeling without channeling damage mods and at a combo counter of 2.5x you gain a combined damage multiplier of 1+(1.5-1)+(2.5-1) = 3x.

[BLI7Z]

I always channel melee... for Life Strike's sake. And love that mechanic. Since day one I hoped they buffed and rebalanced channeling. But no... they are going to get rid of it. That's really sad for me, will miss a lot that kind of gameplay. Always been a main melee when possible, surviving thinly thanks to channeling and Life Strike mod. Now I will have to adapt to something I really think I am not going to enjoy. Channeling made my day everyday in my gameplay. Damn. Going to cry a little bit in some dark corner, cya. 

EDIT> and if they also get rid of combo counter... bye bye Power Spike from Naramon. What will be left of my preferred gameplay? Nothing at all.

Edited May 16, 2018 by BLI7Z

[Birdframe_Prime]

On 2018-05-14 at 6:41 PM, (PS4)AbBaNdOn_IGN said:

A disgusting over-reaction to slide abusers.

I don't agree... The wall-clipping is slide abusers, yes. But I've been here for hundreds of threads asking for there to be a dedicated button for what they're now calling 'heavy attacks', instead of having to do the false-swing hold-melee-to-perform version we have now. Dozens of threads calling for there to be a two-button system for melee to allow us actual combos, instead of the pause/block combos we have now.

While I'm still not sure about the removal of the Combo Counter's effect on the basic/light melee attacks (I mean, unless they triple the base damage of all melee weapons to start with, in order to equal that 2.5-3x combo that most melee players sit at quite comfortably on most missions for a while), I can see that this change to the functions has been coming for a long time.

It's this twin facet of having not only the Combo Counter no longer affecting light melee, but then being expended on heavy melee... they'd better be putting something spectactular on the heavy attack to make this change worth it. And not a massive Ragdoll like we've seen, because that's a ridiculous time waste and interference with our actually killing the enemy, I'm talking like applying the effect of any scaling mod (Weeping Wounds, Blood Rush), plus any channeling bonus mod (Life Strike, True Punishment, Quickening, maybe even Reflex Coil) as well.

As for how effective it's all going to be, I'll stick a 'we'll see' on that. You're actually a bit lucky there my friend, because you're on Console, so we have to test, bug-fix and work through all the teething troubles in the weeks before you get your update certified and patched in. You'll get something that's actually several increments better than what we get shipped at base. You'll also get to see all the playtests and mistakes made by the content creators and how they react to the different aspects, and that's alongside all the stat-fixes that are going to happen to the weapons themselves... So you won't make nearly the same amount of mistakes that we will.

But still, saying it's all in reaction to spin-2-win is ignoring the years of feedback that the community has been giving that they want a better melee system than just hitting the same button over and over again. And I mean years, it really hit a high note when the Redeemer was brought in, the charge/heavy attack being the attraction of the weapon, but forcing us to do a silly fake melee swing first before we even started charging it? That was something the community hated and wanted to get rid of, it was also why the Sarpa came with a default stance that was 'gunshot first, melee only on certain combos, or the heavy attack'. And again with the Sancti Magistar, with it's radial heal on Heavy Attack, which would have been so worth it if we could have just heavy attacked when we wanted, or hit an un-aware enemy for the 8x multiplier without accidentally ruining it by hitting them with the first false-swing.

Now that I think about it, the Vaykor Sydon is going to be really, really good with this, because not only are you going to be blocking all damage and reflecting it, but you're also going to be building up a Radial Blind for use on any frame... that's going to be interesting to see...

Anyroadup, just hold your hatred until you see what actually happens. DE very rarely ever reverse implemented changes, but what they do tend to do is over-buff the new things if the feedback is too vehement, you may get several blissful months of massively over-powered melee as a result of our pain.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

2 hours ago, Thaylien said:

I don't agree... The wall-clipping is slide abusers, yes. But I've been here for hundreds of threads asking for there to be a dedicated button for what they're now calling 'heavy attacks', instead of having to do the false-swing hold-melee-to-perform version we have now. Dozens of threads calling for there to be a two-button system for melee to allow us actual combos, instead of the pause/block combos we have now.

While I'm still not sure about the removal of the Combo Counter's effect on the basic/light melee attacks (I mean, unless they triple the base damage of all melee weapons to start with, in order to equal that 2.5-3x combo that most melee players sit at quite comfortably on most missions for a while), I can see that this change to the functions has been coming for a long time.

It's this twin facet of having not only the Combo Counter no longer affecting light melee, but then being expended on heavy melee... they'd better be putting something spectactular on the heavy attack to make this change worth it. And not a massive Ragdoll like we've seen, because that's a ridiculous time waste and interference with our actually killing the enemy, I'm talking like applying the effect of any scaling mod (Weeping Wounds, Blood Rush), plus any channeling bonus mod (Life Strike, True Punishment, Quickening, maybe even Reflex Coil) as well.

As for how effective it's all going to be, I'll stick a 'we'll see' on that. You're actually a bit lucky there my friend, because you're on Console, so we have to test, bug-fix and work through all the teething troubles in the weeks before you get your update certified and patched in. You'll get something that's actually several increments better than what we get shipped at base. You'll also get to see all the playtests and mistakes made by the content creators and how they react to the different aspects, and that's alongside all the stat-fixes that are going to happen to the weapons themselves... So you won't make nearly the same amount of mistakes that we will.

But still, saying it's all in reaction to spin-2-win is ignoring the years of feedback that the community has been giving that they want a better melee system than just hitting the same button over and over again. And I mean years, it really hit a high note when the Redeemer was brought in, the charge/heavy attack being the attraction of the weapon, but forcing us to do a silly fake melee swing first before we even started charging it? That was something the community hated and wanted to get rid of, it was also why the Sarpa came with a default stance that was 'gunshot first, melee only on certain combos, or the heavy attack'. And again with the Sancti Magistar, with it's radial heal on Heavy Attack, which would have been so worth it if we could have just heavy attacked when we wanted, or hit an un-aware enemy for the 8x multiplier without accidentally ruining it by hitting them with the first false-swing.

Now that I think about it, the Vaykor Sydon is going to be really, really good with this, because not only are you going to be blocking all damage and reflecting it, but you're also going to be building up a Radial Blind for use on any frame... that's going to be interesting to see...

Anyroadup, just hold your hatred until you see what actually happens. DE very rarely ever reverse implemented changes, but what they do tend to do is over-buff the new things if the feedback is too vehement, you may get several blissful months of massively over-powered melee as a result of our pain.

Yep, and they'll nerf everything into the ground. Be easier and more rewarding to just come out with better channeling mods and separate channeling modding.

So each configure is configure 1... Configure 1+. Configure 1 is standard melee modding... And 1+ is channeling modding.

[NezuHimeSama]

7 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Um, did u actually read this?

 

Additionally, +50% increase to damage over time per tick from statuses, e.g., slash or toxin, when they are applied while channeling.

Damage bonus from channelling and combo counter stack additively with each other, as per the formula:
Effective Damage Multiplier = 1 + (Channelling Multiplier - 1) + (Combo Multiplier - 1)
As example while channeling without channeling damage mods and at a combo counter of 2.5x you gain a combined damage multiplier of 1+(1.5-1)+(2.5-1) = 3x.

Yup, and that's what it says. The stack is 1+channeling+combo. It's not 1*1.5*2.5, it's 1+0.5+1.5. The same stack, unlike Crit Damage, Damage, and Elemental Damage all adding to different stacks.

In other words, the higher your combo, the less you get from channeling because 2.5->3 is only a 20% increase in damage.

 

Also, the thing about procs; wiki does a terrible job of explaining it but proc damage is calculated off the damage of the hit, not the weapon's base damage. They just keep explaining it as being the base damage with the same multipliers applied, but the result is, if you do an attack with 500 base damage, x4 for critical, x2 for combo, +50% for elemental, the result is 5000 damage attack. That 5000 is stored for the proc's base value I think? and it's used to calculate subsequent damage from, so for toxin, 2500 * elemental, being +50% would be 3750 per tick.

Channeling works the same as any other damage source here, and stacks the same way it does with everything, meaning your procs are only doing 20% more at 2.5x combo multiplier from channeling.

 

Now, the weird thing is, iirc, there's a bug with channeling relating to critical scaling, where channeling damage is incorrectly factored into the red crit damage as being part of the crit damage stack, allowing higher critical levels to continue to scale. But, they may have fixed that.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

24 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Yup, and that's what it says. The stack is 1+channeling+combo. It's not 1*1.5*2.5, it's 1+0.5+1.5. The same stack, unlike Crit Damage, Damage, and Elemental Damage all adding to different stacks.

In other words, the higher your combo, the less you get from channeling because 2.5->3 is only a 20% increase in damage.

 

Also, the thing about procs; wiki does a terrible job of explaining it but proc damage is calculated off the damage of the hit, not the weapon's base damage. They just keep explaining it as being the base damage with the same multipliers applied, but the result is, if you do an attack with 500 base damage, x4 for critical, x2 for combo, +50% for elemental, the result is 5000 damage attack. That 5000 is stored for the proc's base value I think? and it's used to calculate subsequent damage from, so for toxin, 2500 * elemental, being +50% would be 3750 per tick.

Channeling works the same as any other damage source here, and stacks the same way it does with everything, meaning your procs are only doing 20% more at 2.5x combo multiplier from channeling.

 

Now, the weird thing is, iirc, there's a bug with channeling relating to critical scaling, where channeling damage is incorrectly factored into the red crit damage as being part of the crit damage stack, allowing higher critical levels to continue to scale. But, they may have fixed that.

Exactly, channeling increases total melee dmg output. Glad we can agree.

[NezuHimeSama]

By significantly less than you can get from other mods.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

1 minute ago, NezuHimeSama said:

By significantly less than you can get from other mods.

Disagree. That math is inacurate. Channeling stacks dmg modifiers and is crazy with crit builds.

I can wreck 120+ grineer with dual ether crit or CO channeling build. No Maiming strike.

Without channeling... It takes twice as long to kill them. Especially heavy gunners.

[NezuHimeSama]

Well, the math is right there. If you think it's wrong, test it and post your findings, with numbers from simulacrum.

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 hour ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Yep, and they'll nerf everything into the ground.

Again, I disagree. They nerf a lot of things after their release, and all of them are completely viable. I'm not saying they haven't nerfed some things into the ground, but when something starts off powerful, it usually doesn't get much less so, even after 'balancing'.

And sometimes, like they did with things like Oberon's rework, they actually buff them up to standard if they're released a little wonky.

2 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Be easier and more rewarding to just come out with better channeling mods and separate channeling modding.

Heh, you must have not been here the the few times that they changed the modding system in the past. I was here for the big one, and it was bad. Even though it was an effective buff (from 6 mod slots and 4 ability slots, to innate abilities and 8 modding slots) not one of the people starting feedback threads seemed to understand the concept.

But could you imagine how un-mitigatedly powerful a weapon would be if you had double the mod slots for it?

What you're effectively asking is for, okay, off the top of my head? Imagine that the Euphona Prime had a completely separate modding area for its Shotgun Alt fire mode than it did for its Slug regular shot mode. You lose all the trade-offs, all the problem with building for a hybrid style weapon. You build the shotgun side for 100% status, while you build the slug side for full Crit, and you could even change the base Elemental type for each side, meaning that your weapon could be alt-fired to put on a completely different set of Status effects.

Or, closer to home, having a separate modding section for Exalted style weapons, able to mod an Exalted Blade, or Primal Fury completely differently to the way you modded your actual melee weapon, and have effectively two separate melee weapons depending on the state you choose to be in, scaling even faster off things like Condition Overload, or similar.

That's the kind of thing you're talking about adding with a 'separate channelling modding'. Complete, unadulterated power creep.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

1 hour ago, Thaylien said:

Again, I disagree. They nerf a lot of things after their release, and all of them are completely viable. I'm not saying they haven't nerfed some things into the ground, but when something starts off powerful, it usually doesn't get much less so, even after 'balancing'.

And sometimes, like they did with things like Oberon's rework, they actually buff them up to standard if they're released a little wonky.

Heh, you must have not been here the the few times that they changed the modding system in the past. I was here for the big one, and it was bad. Even though it was an effective buff (from 6 mod slots and 4 ability slots, to innate abilities and 8 modding slots) not one of the people starting feedback threads seemed to understand the concept.

But could you imagine how un-mitigatedly powerful a weapon would be if you had double the mod slots for it?

What you're effectively asking is for, okay, off the top of my head? Imagine that the Euphona Prime had a completely separate modding area for its Shotgun Alt fire mode than it did for its Slug regular shot mode. You lose all the trade-offs, all the problem with building for a hybrid style weapon. You build the shotgun side for 100% status, while you build the slug side for full Crit, and you could even change the base Elemental type for each side, meaning that your weapon could be alt-fired to put on a completely different set of Status effects.

Or, closer to home, having a separate modding section for Exalted style weapons, able to mod an Exalted Blade, or Primal Fury completely differently to the way you modded your actual melee weapon, and have effectively two separate melee weapons depending on the state you choose to be in, scaling even faster off things like Condition Overload, or similar.

That's the kind of thing you're talking about adding with a 'separate channelling modding'. Complete, unadulterated power creep.

Tonkor.... Nuff said

[Birdframe_Prime]

56 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Tonkor.... Nuff said

You're talking about one of only around eight total weapons ever actually Nerfed, compared the approximately 200 that got buffed in the last six months alone...

[ChaoticEdge]

On 2018-05-13 at 12:13 PM, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Channeling is blocking, blocking is channeling. And ya talked about replacing channeling with heavy attks. Theres nothing wrong with channeling mechanic... DE just chose to ignore it for years. Need better mods and weapons that benefit from it. CHANNELING is a 3rd layer of dmg output beyond status/crit. 

you do have a point.  No one knows how useful the channeling build, but I won't speak about because I kept this secret long time.  I've used nearly the same basic build, except for reducing the needs which your sacrificing all the high power dmg or the dmg to cause it be higher.  I have to get rid of lots things and I can see the reason why no one want use channeling attack, the fact is channeling eats too much energy and few mods does let the channeling reduce it, but after that the mods kills it.