Saryn Spore Spread Tests

[Cibyllae]

 I did not want these to get lost in the megathread, that is the reason for making my own topic. I will also post the other two spread tests I made here.

 

Saryn_Spore_Half_Range_On_Death_Sim_Test

Range: 145%

 

Saryn_Spore_Spread_On_Teammate_Kill_Sim_Test

Range:280%

 

Saryn LoS Tests

19 hours ago, Cibyllae said:

Saryn_Spore_LoS_Test_Solo_Hydron_Sedna_Wave_2

Links are working now

 

 

Proof Spore Spread is not affected by LoS

 

EDIT: This is the Sim. test I ran with equatable results. I apologize for the quality.

 

20 hours ago, Cibyllae said:

Here is a video in Sim of Spore interacting between two enemies without LoS. I'm working on another one out of Sim.

 

Saryn_Spore_LoS_Test

EDIT: I'll try and fix the quality on the next one

 

tl;dr

Spores spread on death from Saryn and Teammates

Spore range is halved when enemies die, this means your spread radius is half of what it is when calculating the range at which your spores will propagate when spores spread from enemies dying and not the actual popping of spores.

Spore Spread is not affected by LoS

EDIT: These are not new changes, this is how spores worked Pre Saryn2.0

EDIT: Fix(es) That might help, they have not been confirmed too work other than by a tenno's word so take it for what you will. Posting it up here because it might work and its testable.

6 hours ago, VoidFlux said:

@Cibyllae  was looking in to spread some more and notice that the spread is happening but it can take a 10 seconds or more for the Spores to appear on mobs. which got me thinking turned down graphic to lowest setting (while keeping screen resolution) and started again with my high range build. game went crazy with spread, thought i was going crazy to turn graphic setting back up, and same delay. shooting mobs with delay spore effect seemed to not register they had spores. tweaking the Graphic setting worked for me, but still waiting for someone else to confirm.  still need to find which setting is doing it, as the game run smooth at High settings.  

 

---

 

7 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Recent fix to Saryn in Hotfix 22.20.3!

• Fixed a script error when casting Saryn’s Spores on a ragdoll. This resulted in the Spores to not show up (but still tick damage).
   

 

 

Edited May 19, 2018 by Cibyllae

[LightningsVengance]

Thanks!

[Kalvorax]

1 hour ago, Cibyllae said:

Spore range is halved when enemies die, this means your spread radius is half of what it is when calculating the range at which your spores will propagate.

so basically the ONLY way to spread spores reliably is using toxic lash and then shooting spored enemies.....bah....thanks for the confirmation that spores doesnt have LoS....just the crap spread range on death....no wonder it seemed worse than before.

[Cibyllae]

Just now, Kalvorax said:

no wonder it seemed worse than before.

This was the case Pre Saryn2.0

[PikeOrShield]

8 minutes ago, Kalvorax said:

so basically the ONLY way to spread spores reliably is using toxic lash and then shooting spored enemies.....bah....thanks for the confirmation that spores doesnt have LoS....just the crap spread range on death....no wonder it seemed worse than before.

That's how they worked before the rework too.

[PikeOrShield]

Thank you for testing this.  Do you mind if I share it around?

[Kalvorax]

10 minutes ago, Cibyllae said:

This was the case Pre Saryn2.0

 

2 minutes ago, PikeOrShield said:

That's how they worked before the rework too.

what...that the listed spread range is false....and only true when using toxic lash? how was this NEVER pointed out until now then? (yes i am really curious about this...because it sure seems WORSE than pre-change.

[PikeOrShield]

3 minutes ago, Kalvorax said:

 

what...that the listed spread range is false....and only true when using toxic lash? how was this NEVER pointed out until now then? (yes i am really curious about this...because it sure seems WORSE than pre-change.

When enemies die (from spore or getting killed by you or a friendly), the spread range is halved unless the spore was popped, then the range is normal.  I hope that explains it clearly enough, sorry if it's a bit unclear.

Edited May 18, 2018 by PikeOrShield

[Cibyllae]

4 minutes ago, Kalvorax said:

 

what...that the listed spread range is false....and only true when using toxic lash? how was this NEVER pointed out until now then? (yes i am really curious about this...because it sure seems WORSE than pre-change.

I would quote the wiki but somebody just changed it today, spread range being halved on enemy death was listed as a function of spores on her preS2.0 wiki

[Kalvorax]

3 minutes ago, PikeOrShield said:

When enemies die (from spore or getting killed by you or a friendly), the spread range is halved unless the spore was popped, then the range is normal.  I hope that explains it clearly enough, sorry if it's a bit unclear.

 

Just now, Cibyllae said:

I would quote the wiki but somebody just changed it today, spread range being halved on enemy death was listed as a function of spores on her preS2.0 wiki

hmmm ok...guess i never saw it myself on the wiki....its really something that should be added to her stats then in game.

[PikeOrShield]

1 minute ago, Kalvorax said:

 

hmmm ok...guess i never saw it myself on the wiki....its really something that should be added to her stats then in game.

Yeah, DE is pretty bad at listing these things.  Nobody knew that Nova's 1 ability provided damage reduction to her health for years until a dev mentioned it in a tweet or something.

[Cibyllae]

52 minutes ago, PikeOrShield said:

Thank you for testing this.  Do you mind if I share it around?

no go ahead, I do not mind, sorry I missed this post

[VoidFlux]

@Cibyllae  was looking in to spread some more and notice that the spread is happening but it can take a 10 seconds or more for the Spores to appear on mobs. which got me thinking turned down graphic to lowest setting (while keeping screen resolution) and started again with my high range build. game went crazy with spread, thought i was going crazy to turn graphic setting back up, and same delay. shooting mobs with delay spore effect seemed to not register they had spores. tweaking the Graphic setting worked for me, but still waiting for someone else to confirm.  still need to find which setting is doing it, as the game run smooth at High settings.  

[Maka.Bones]

my only thought about spores was maybe lower the damage of spores a little (maybe like... 25% less damage?) and double the range that the spores can spread to. Make infection a more efficient/faster process. 

 

The issue I had with them was that either they killed enemies too fast to spread, or they didn't spread far enough because enemies weren't close together. 

Ty for the post btw. Upvoted.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[Leqesai]

This explains everything.

 

I was seriously bummed out when my spores weren't spreading at the listed range. 

Why it goes to half range when a target dies I do not know... Perhaps it would just be too OP otherwise?

[Cibyllae]

15 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Why it goes to half range when a target dies I do not know... Perhaps it would just be too OP otherwise?

It functioned like that before these changes.

[Leqesai]

1 minute ago, Cibyllae said:

It functioned like that before these changes.

Yeah I understand that. What I'm saying is that it doesn't make any sense why it would work this way. Regardless of if we're talking about Saryn 3.0 or 2.0.

[Cibyllae]

12 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

What I'm saying is that it doesn't make any sense why it would work this way. Regardless of if we're talking about Saryn 3.0 or 2.0.

And I'm saying why was no one complaining before?

[Maka.Bones]

4 minutes ago, Cibyllae said:

And I'm saying why was no one complaining before?

1) Because we mainly relied on popping spores

2) because we could cast spores multiple times

3) Because we could cast spores on our molt, which enemies felt attracted to... and use that as a focal point to spread our spores faster

 

Simply put, it wasn't an issue before. 

Edited May 18, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[Cibyllae]

6 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

1) Because we mainly relied on popping spores 

2) because we could cast spores multiple times

3) Because we could cast spores on our molt, which enemies felt attracted to... and use that as a focal point to spread our spores faster

 

Simply put, it wasn't an issue before.  

Exactly, now its more difficult because you need to have toxic lash up to reliably hit spores as they don't pop from any aoe. You can't cast spores multiple times to spread it by using the ability, and the interactions between molt and spores is gone now. All these things are working as intended, there is nothing inherently wrong with how she works. She works differently than before, and that's the issue people have with the changes. I'm glad you hit the nail on the head.

[Maka.Bones]

5 minutes ago, Cibyllae said:

Exactly, now its more difficult because you need to have toxic lash up to reliably hit spores as they don't pop from any aoe. You can't cast spores multiple times to spread it by using the ability, and the interactions between molt and spores is gone now. All these things are working as intended, there is nothing inherently wrong with how she works. She works differently than before, and that's the issue people have with the changes. I'm glad you hit the nail on the head.

Only thing needed to solve it, is allow multiple spore casts. That or increase the radius of spread, and allow teammates to spread the spores. Remove the requirement of toxic lash's involvement.  That used to work, because we could cast them multiple times. Now it's more of a restriction, than a blessing. 

[TANTO_17]

One of my issues with this update is that the range does feel clunky. 

Since spores now relies on single cast and ramping up dmg (which is great but..) the only time I feel spores is useful is when facing high level enemies. Everything else dies too fast to properly propagate spores. I feel like either that base range of the spore spread should be greater or the "on death= 1/2 range" should be looked at and changed to be a bit more generous. I do like having toxic lash buffing spread but I don't like that having teammates kill things makes me less useful.  

Edited May 18, 2018 by TANTO_17
Some issues about playstyle mentioned by @ICA-970326-47

[Leqesai]

1 hour ago, Cibyllae said:

And I'm saying why was no one complaining before?

I am not sure why you are occupying this perspective with your answer. 

I don't mean to imply that it is a problem and don't represent the group complaining about it.

My question is strictly academic. Quite simply, what is the reason for the range getting halved? Is it because the ability would be overpowered if it didn't have the range?

 

 

[Cibyllae]

1 hour ago, Leqesai said:

I am not sure why you are occupying this perspective with your answer. 

Its because we got along fine with it before, so why is it a problem now?

EDIT: I get that you're being academic. Just understand that no one had a problem with the range being halved up until they had trouble using Saryn. The range being halved existed since 2016, its a little late to start questioning things which were changed two and a half years ago.

Edited May 19, 2018 by Cibyllae

[PikeOrShield]

56 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

I am not sure why you are occupying this perspective with your answer. 

I don't mean to imply that it is a problem and don't represent the group complaining about it.

My question is strictly academic. Quite simply, what is the reason for the range getting halved? Is it because the ability would be overpowered if it didn't have the range?

 

 

To my knowledge, the devs never gave a reason.  Your guess is as good as anyone else's if they don't have [DE] in their tag.

[Valaska]

4 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

1) Because we mainly relied on popping spores

2) because we could cast spores multiple times

3) Because we could cast spores on our molt, which enemies felt attracted to... and use that as a focal point to spread our spores faster

 

Simply put, it wasn't an issue before. 

No recast makes this a huge issue, and tbh I am seeing spores not spread to enemies just meters away sometimes at 190% range.