i had an idea for making Eidolons endless for when Venus is out and people stop hunting eidolons as much. i thought hard on this

[Regenerating_Degenerate]

this post is most for DE staff, i get you are going to reply and try to use the games logic ruin this idea, but its a game, there is always more than one way to make something like this happen. it doesnt need to be an item or during the day or  a new mode or even part of the game, it could be something you can opt into, it could be all that came before?. so enjoy or at least try to if you can?

i posted this on reddit and am just posting here for you guys to see, i thought this was a great idea and i floated it around in warframe to people why playing, most people thought it was a good idea but thought the way eidolons worked was too set in stone and was discouraging them from hunting eidolons as much as they would want to. i would like the plains to be a place where people will want to keep going back to and endless eidolon is one way to make that happen. the way it is now is not very connection friendly due to cetus being wonky with certain hosts, i would like a reason to not go back to cetus unless i want to and a reason to kill more than 3 eidolon and not give up for the day because i'll have to wait for 2 hours for the next night because that first team disbanded and i could not get another group before day, or never get get into a group because so many elitist want perfect groups that can kill tons of eidolons, but exclude anyone that can kill eidolns but can't play cheesey like them. the post on reddit question is below, with a link too.  i'll also add the recent comments due to them being useful in this too. i am not asking this to happen, but to be considered or maybe integrate something here into something you guys are working on. i want the game to keep going forever with variety, variety keeps content alive. if you are reading this Glen, i too felt Trials needed variety.

 

 this spoiler is just the post in text if the above link did not work

Spoiler

Endless Eidolon idea, adds eidolon during the day.

 

Before you read this, remember this is a game and does not have to have set in stone content and there is no TLDR

At the moment the Day and Night cycle is ruining the Plains of Eidolon for many players, be it the sun shows up at the last second or before you get to kill a few Eidola or you can't find a group because you have to have specific frames and set ups due to how long it can take you to kill them. It causes people to be discouraged when looking for groups or even fighting Eidolon in public groups when they feel they have to be the elite or spend hours looking elsewhere for info on how to take Eidolon down faster. Yes, you could join a clan and get a group of people together, but not everyone wants to deal with clans, sometimes you just want to keep killing Eidolon and just not stop.

Well i may have an idea that might fix this and make the plains a place you will still want to go after Venus comes and leaves the plains in the dust (Like Mercury in Destiny 2's Curse of Osiris, admit it.. you never go there anymore do you?) and i don't want a huge place in Warframe like the Plains to grow stale like Trials and PvP did so heres are a few ideas that may keep us coming back.

Now.. can anyone come up with a good not made up reason why we can't fight during the day or have a way to keep night going? yes we can stay in the plains and wait for night again, but screw that.

add a item to the Hydrolyst that extends night or allows them to be out during the day with some sort of damage or health buff by about 25% each set of three Eidolon you kill it would make them a little harder each time, this way the first set can have their health and damage reduced by 25% so newer players can do at least one set of Eidolon without much stress or a solo player could enjoy their time and maybe kill 2 sets in one night?

unless something is done about the way eidolons work now, Venus will almost completely kill off any chance of getting a group of people who are either Elitists or new to the game, if something like this idea can be implemented i can see people still killing Eidolons and enjoying it

Hopfully Pablo or someone at DE sees this and thinks its a good idea.

 

this spoiler is just the comments. they had a couple notes i wanted to add but didn't since they were already here (i deleted named)

Spoiler

comment 1

^#^##%@

jfdgj

3 points·1 hour ago

Their principle about Eido is that it's a special boss that they worked hard on and don't want people cheesing on, hence the Chroma and Shield Disruption changes.

They also wanted night to be a time where the stronger players come out and the newer players work hard to strive to. They emphasized that quite a bit. Day is supposed to be a chill time.

Having night time be shorter is also intended so that you do things better. Heck, old Monster Hunter quests also had a time limit of 40/50 minute.

That said, I've never been a fan of it. It's fun, yes. But it requires a lot of niche build and meta amps. Compare that to regular bosses, which while weak, is doable with anything.

You have to grind the S#&$ out of amps/focus and wisps. And on a p2w standpoint, you can't even buy the amps so it's weird.

 

 

 

Regen_Degen

 

1 point·40 minutes ago

the content has been the same long enough, with new content of the way the old content will need to be touched up to be more friendly for people who want to still do hunt, but don't want to deal with all the load screens and host migrations, the plains still need work on the host problems and there is still so much unfinished content.

cheesing will always exist in games and we should just accept that, we know not everyone uses cheese methods and some hate the idea of cheese.

that was then this is now, it was a fun little thing to say, but guess what bud? new people stay out at night too, it doesn't stop them from attacking the eidolons. plus the way you flight them takes forever to set up, it would be nice if we could just go in and keep killing them without end. i stopped hunting them because its annoying to find a group that's great just to have them leave and watch them find a new group in recruit while i am watching... its really annoying.

really? really? are there really gamers that says "yes i like having time limits on when i can play, its just like when i was a kid and my parents said i have to go outside" think about that for a moment and tell me you are tired of the sun coming up and you know you have to wait 2 hours to play again?

it should be a regular boss, all weapons and ability's should have some sort of useful effect on eidolons, but my soma is completely useless, so i have to use a sniper and have a team of people who also can use snipers...

its not pay to win dammit, it never way, this game is different and is also played by the Devs, they should have the same respect for the game that people that play and want better changes for everyone.

 

 

comment 2

 

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5457457

2 points·1 hour ago

The Sentient, with its power waxing and waning with the dusk and dawn, would besiege the Unum's Tower by nightfall and retreat by morning. Gara would search for the Sentient's resting place during the daylight as the Unum had forbidden her from fighting the Sentient when it was at the height of its power.

They are only strong at night. They will not fight you when they are weakest.

 

 

 

Regen_Degen

 

0 points·1 hour ago

The point of the item i mention in the post is to hold them in that state of power longer, so we can take out more. an item like that can exist in this game, its all made up anyways right? Right??

 

 

 

#^#^#^#^#^#

 

No, because if we made that the sentients would get ahold of it and no one would be safe.

Not to mention the Ostrons would hate us for bringing up an unstoppable enemy during the only time they were safe.

 

 

 

Regen_Degen

 

1 point·34 minutes ago

Oh so you are against stronger better enemies that make the game more interesting and risking it all to also become stronger? it wouldn't be useful to any other sentient too, it would just keep them as powerful as they already are, the stat increase is just for game play which doesn't hurt if i has more depth that a shallow toilet.

 

 

^$^$^$^$^^

Score hidden·15 minutes ago

The Tenno are supposed to keep the system in balance. That would throw it into the same spiral the Orokin Empire faced. For the Tenno to do that would be incredibly selfish putting the Ostrons at risk for their own benefit.

Who is to say you make the item and the Sentient doesn’t wait until morning anyway to assure their reconstruction?

---

I like strong enemies. I don’t think Eidolon are what we seek though. Maybe in the next system we will find some of these enemies.

 

Edited May 24, 2018 by Regenerating_Degenerate

[peterc3]

Why would DE want you to be able to endlessly grind for Arcanes and all the other Eidolon drops 24/7?

[Regenerating_Degenerate]

 

16 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Why would DE want you to be able to endlessly grind for Arcanes and all the other Eidolon drops 24/7?

of course DE would lock rewards like Trials if they did something like this, you would get arcanes for the first set of eidolons, but if you kill the second set in the same or a different night before the week is over you get more arcanes, but a day or two later you can go back in and kill the same two sets of eidolons and get no arcanes, just normal loot, but if the team wants to kill a third set or you have guys that also want to kill three sets, you get more loot, this would just keep working even when you kill 15+ sets, but who would do that? and killing even three sets of eidolons is a task that not many teams want to do if the eidolons are also getting a slight armor/health/damage buff each set you kill. see? it works it self out

Edited May 24, 2018 by Regenerating_Degenerate

[ShinTechG]

Lore wise, didn't the Cephalon Fragments say something about the Eidolons not being able to come out in the day time? Some sort of weakness, no?

Also, I want to add that I don't necessarily agree with this idea of the Eidolon, but I do agree that something should be done to keep the plains alive especially in the day time. There are so many caves, and areas that are just sitting there with all sorts of unknown relics and items. There are no quests or interactions with so many of them. 

Edited May 24, 2018 by ShinTechG
Additional comments

[krc473]

1 hour ago, Regenerating_Degenerate said:

and i don't want a huge place in Warframe like the Plains to grow stale like Trials and PvP did so heres are a few ideas that may keep us coming back.

In all honesty, I feel like for many people PoE has already gone stale. I do not go there anymore. There is no reason to go there. What you are suggesting has no appeal to me at all. It will not improve PoE, or make me want to go there. Other people may disagree of course. 

33 minutes ago, Regenerating_Degenerate said:

of course DE would lock rewards like Trials if they did something like this, you would get arcanes for the first set of eidolons, but if you kill the second set in the same or a different night before the week is over you get more arcanes, but a day or two later you can go back in and kill the same two sets of eidolons and get no arcanes, just normal loot, but if the team wants to kill a third set or you have guys that also want to kill three sets, you get more loot,

How does "you can only do it once a week" encourage people to go there? I could do four sets in one go and get arcanes. But then I have to do five next to get an arcane? This is more like "everyone spend 2 hours on PoE on a Monday. Then ignore it the other 6 days of the week". I really think this would have the exact opposite effect to what you are after.

Edited May 24, 2018 by krc473

[Regenerating_Degenerate]

29 minutes ago, krc473 said:

In all honesty, I feel like for many people PoE has already gone stale. I do not go there anymore. There is no reason to go there. What you are suggesting has no appeal to me at all. It will not improve PoE, or make me want to go there. Other people may disagree of course. 

How does "you can only do it once a week" encourage people to go there? I could do four sets in one go and get arcanes. But then I have to do five next to get an arcane? This is more like "everyone spend 2 hours on PoE on a Monday. Then ignore it the other 6 days of the week". I really think this would have the exact opposite effect to what you are after.

everything about this idea ca be completely different, would you be happier if i said every 3 days? or locked for a full a day? the whole point is to just get the idea that PoE needs to change, it failed and need its own rework, your post is just proof that some people, even me never go their and want reason come back. plus wouldn't it be personal lock outs too?

Edited May 24, 2018 by Regenerating_Degenerate

[Regenerating_Degenerate]

39 minutes ago, ShinTechG said:

Lore wise, didn't the Cephalon Fragments say something about the Eidolons not being able to come out in the day time? Some sort of weakness, no?

Also, I want to add that I don't necessarily agree with this idea of the Eidolon, but I do agree that something should be done to keep the plains alive especially in the day time. There are so many caves, and areas that are just sitting there with all sorts of unknown relics and items. There are no quests or interactions with so many of them. 

what is the weakness? does it have less health but do more damage, does it blow up if the sun touches it, does it just power down and become lethargic? why can't its weakness be something that buffs it in other places? maybe it breaks a few of the limbs off? or something, maybe keeping out during the day is how new under geared players could kill eidolons? (with no or very low drop chance arcanes and less loot) give everyone something to do?

Edited May 24, 2018 by Regenerating_Degenerate

[krc473]

1 minute ago, Regenerating_Degenerate said:

everything about this idea ca be completely different, would you be happier if i said every 3 days? or locked for a full a day?

Locking it to one day would be more reasonable. It would be more in keeping with stuff like Sorties, Raids etc.

2 minutes ago, Regenerating_Degenerate said:

our post is just proof that some people, even me never go their and want reason come back.

If what you are suggesting was implemented, would you spend more time there? Assume Venus Open World just dropped, would you go back to PoE if these changes were implemented? Me? I would not. For me, PoE was such a flop that short of a total overhaul, I wont be going back. It was fun for a few weeks, but the content is just dull and repetitive, the rewards are mediocre at best, and it still has countless bugs. I would be more than happy to play a fun, engaging mission that had a bunch of bugs and had terrible rewards. And to me, that is what DE missed with PoE - the enjoyment aspect. I really wanted it to be great, but for me, PoE is simply not enjoyable.

[Regenerating_Degenerate]

@krc473 if i could go into plains and kill eidolon without having to go back to cetus and kept getting maybe 3 to 9 arcanes a day, yes i would keep going to the plains, but it not being endless or having a way to keep the eidolon from disappearing definitely kills all that content for me. "but the content is just dull and repetitive, the rewards are mediocre at best" can be said about every game and every game mode too

[krc473]

1 minute ago, Regenerating_Degenerate said:

"but the content is just dull and repetitive, the rewards are mediocre at best" can be said about every game and every game mode too

Yes, I agree. Some games have genuinely enjoyable content in them. The problem comes when you end up just doing the same thing over and over again, just for the reward. I mean, if the reward is excellent, that is fine. It is when the rewards are terrible that you get problems.

3 minutes ago, Regenerating_Degenerate said:

if i could go into plains and kill eidolon without having to go back to cetus and kept getting maybe 3 to 9 arcanes a day, yes i would keep going to the plains, but it not being endless or having a way to keep the eidolon from disappearing definitely kills all that content for me.

I mean, we have a shrine to activate the next Eidolon appearing. And DE has not allowed it to loop back to the Teralyst. I fail to see how this would have been either overly difficult or a bad design choice. I fully agree with Eidolons not being allowed out during the day (lore reasons, sun kills them or something). But as soon as dawn starts, all the lures vanish? That to me is game-ruining. Too many times I got to the last limb, then the lures vanished. So I gave up. DE should allow us to keep fighting the currently spawned Eidolon, with the lures we have. When the Eidolon dies, the lures/Voms vanish too. To me, that is a better way to handle it. 

[peterc3]

9 hours ago, krc473 said:

Too many times I got to the last limb, then the lures vanished.

Didn't they just fix this?

[Synpai]

4 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Didn't they just fix this?

Yup!

 

Sadly Eidolons aren't dying because they're necessarily boring. It's just that after awhile most players will have had their fill. I went from eating, breathing and sleeping Eidolon Hunts to hating every second of the rave that they've become. It's in part due to some of the mechanics for speed being taken away like the T3 amp reset (specifically using Void Blast to cancel), Ardaza Kavat crit buff and unairu wisps (too unreliable on the bigger Eidola, void strike or bust). It went from something you could "master" (by going faster and faster/being more efficient) to being throttled. 

In other parts, it's due to the hardcore tedious, meta style of play that some people don't enjoy.

There's also the opt-out crowd, those that don't care about focus or arcanes or rivens, what have you and opt out of plains entirely.

Not to mention, potential bugs and performance issues that still thrive (people have been shouting about the Sunrise lure one for....since PoE released and it just recently got changed)

 

If I'm being honest, PoE lost its charm after like 2-3 weeks. I already "had" everything I just had to wait for the daily caps to reset to actually purchase it.

There is huge bias due to the rewards being effectively meaningless to me after picking up two sets of everything during the scare of value decrease when raids were removed and having focus maxed (Though I still ran before just for the fun of it, so I can't be sure).

 

Regardless, I don't think time of day has much to do with Eidolon Hunting population.

[krc473]

7 hours ago, peterc3 said:

Didn't they just fix this?

I gave up on the Eidolon fights a long time ago. So, they could have changed it, I do not know.

[(XBOX)oOJeshuanOo]

16 hours ago, Regenerating_Degenerate said:

what is the weakness? does it have less health but do more damage, does it blow up if the sun touches it, does it just power down and become lethargic? why can't its weakness be something that buffs it in other places? maybe it breaks a few of the limbs off? or something, maybe keeping out during the day is how new under geared players could kill eidolons? (with no or very low drop chance arcanes and less loot) give everyone something to do?

Yeah that never made sense. If the sun killed it, just tether all of its limbs and roast it in the sun, problem solved. I guess they've never seen the sun because they play too much Warframe.

18 hours ago, peterc3 said:

Why would DE want you to be able to endlessly grind for Arcanes and all the other Eidolon drops 24/7?

Because the rewards and RNG are disappointing, especially when they're only available every 2 hours for 2 hours.

And no one can speak for DE, even you.

[(XBOX)oOJeshuanOo]

9 minutes ago, krc473 said:

I gave up on the Eidolon fights a long time ago. So, they could have changed it, I do not know.

It used to be where over shields were provided to all the limbs, making the process slow and painful.

[krc473]

7 minutes ago, (XB1)oOJeshuanOo said:

It used to be where over shields were provided to all the limbs, making the process slow and painful.

Um, I do not see the link between this response and my statement.

16 hours ago, krc473 said:

Too many times I got to the last limb, then the lures vanished

Overshields had nothing to do with it. We would be into the fourth set in one night, dawn would come and we lose the lures. So we could only "Kill" the Eidolon.

[(XBOX)oOJeshuanOo]

28 minutes ago, krc473 said:

Um, I do not see the link between this response and my statement.

Is that what stopped your Eidolon Hunting? 'Cause they've reworked it.

[krc473]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)oOJeshuanOo said:

Is that what stopped your Eidolon Hunting? 'Cause they've reworked it.

It was more the tedium of it. Sure, the whole dawn ruining the run was a contributing factor. But it was mostly just how boring it was. My group did not find them even remotely challenging. Many, many times the most time consuming part was finding the Lures and Vomvalysts. The rewards were (still are) fairly pointless for me.

Edited May 24, 2018 by krc473

[peterc3]

20 hours ago, Regenerating_Degenerate said:

but who would do that?

People have to be actively forced out of Endless games because they would do them 24/7 if it was possible.

20 hours ago, Regenerating_Degenerate said:

of course DE would lock rewards like Trials if they did something like this, you would get arcanes for the first set of eidolons, but if you kill the second set in the same or a different night before the week is over you get more arcanes, but a day or two later you can go back in and kill the same two sets of eidolons and get no arcanes, just normal loot, but if the team wants to kill a third set or you have guys that also want to kill three sets, you get more loot, this would just keep working even when you kill 15+ sets, but who would do that? and killing even three sets of eidolons is a task that not many teams want to do if the eidolons are also getting a slight armor/health/damage buff each set you kill. see? it works it self out

The players will do something repeatedly until they burn out completely from the game. It does not work itself out.