Lord-Taco-the-Great Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, LazerSkink said: I consider that an inevitability. It seems no matter how far a discussion goes, the very nature of the subject is enough to warrant a lock, which is not good at all. We will see. I trust letter when it comes to threads like these. If it gets locked, it will either be due to discussion turning toxic or the thread getting off topic. I'm giving DE of the benefit of the doubt on this one, but if you are correct, then that is a major problem, and should be addressed as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sitchrea Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, Vistha-Kai said: Except the Support instantly locks down such tickets without any response let alone an inquiry to get more details. Can you give an example? I've never submitted a support ticket about something like this before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune_me Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, Cibyllae said: The grand canyon started with a crack friend, and right about now the singing of the canaries is getting pretty quiet. Not really. Like I said, talking is easy, acting not so much. Unless this actually causes DE to loose players in a large enough amount that it is noticeable, why should they even bother reacting to it. Have you stopped playing the game because of this? No? Why would you assume anyone else has? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sitchrea Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 5 minutes ago, LazerSkink said: I consider that an inevitability. It seems no matter how far a discussion goes, the very nature of the subject is enough to warrant a lock, which is not good at all. We are giving constuctive criticism because we care about the success and future of Warframe. If that's against the rules then we shouldn't have a forum. The topic is heated, but let's do our best to keep civil about this, as this is a very important issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldnacpeek Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 3 hours ago, -.SP.-G43riel said: It could be arranged, a longfull text if that would be better, probably worse As I said, it's being taken care of by users in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugme143 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 2 hours ago, Letter13 said: We are accountable for what we post on the forums and in the in-game chat. Whether we are accountable in Warframe for what we say or do outside of the forums or the in game chat (provided we're not violating legal agreements such as NDAs) is entirely up to DE. Nice, real nice. Edit and backtrack when people post direct evidence that you're lying. Awesome job. And you wonder why people trust your word slightly less than Bernie Madoff's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Court_Joker Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Can someone actually tell me how community mods are given their position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sitchrea Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, rune_me said: Not really. Like I said, talking is easy, acting not so much. Unless this actually causes DE to loose players in a large enough amount that it is noticeable, why should they even bother reacting to it. Have you stopped playing the game because of this? No? Why would you assume anyone else has? That's awfully materialistic to say. I think DE care about more than money, they've proven many times they have greater morals than to just create a slot machine. I just want to know what they think of these apparent double standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune_me Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, Vistha-Kai said: Except the Support instantly locks down such tickets without any response let alone an inquiry to get more details. You still brought it to their attention. They are not obligated to respond to you or offer you any details. But a support ticket means someone has actually read and heard you. If they do not respond, it is because they do not agree with your complaint. There's nothing much you can do about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sitchrea Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 minute ago, bugme143 said: Nice, real nice. Edit and backtrack when people post direct evidence that you're lying. Awesome job. And you wonder why people trust your word slightly less than Bernie Madoff's... Be respectful. Can you elaborate in a respectful way what you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, Letter13 said: NDAs are functionally different; basically it gives DE legal grounds to file lawsuits against volunteers (like me) were we to ever disclose information that's considered proprietary that could damage the company. Social Media Agreements, while similar to NDAs in that they exist to protect the issuing company, do very different things. Social Media Agreements can override previous legal protections afforded to workers to prevent them from being fired while NDAs do not override previous legal protections. The 'contract' for moderators, in its current state, boils down to "If you do something we don't like, we're going to terminate your privileges." The reason why there isn't an actual contract (NDA aside), is because we're volunteers. Volunteers have privileges, while employees have rights. We volunteers have no legal protections for our privileges, unlike employees who have legal protections (worker/labor rights) to protect them from things like unlawful termination (which can be overridden by social media agreements, as the employee is acknowledging that they waive their right to take legal action against the company for firing them based on what they post on social media). Yeah, that needs to be changed from a "we like you" based system to one based on actual standards and rules. Because that explains how certain moderators have been able to get away with behavior. As long as DE likes them for whatever reason, moderators can abuse their position. You may disagree that this goes on, but the offensive moderators in question - one who has consistently behaved in a rude and condescending manner, and another who has an offensive, hate-inspired name - can get away with what they do because DE likes them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldnacpeek Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 3 hours ago, Lord-Taco-the-Great said: We will see. I trust letter when it comes to threads like these. If it gets locked, it will either be due to discussion turning toxic or the thread getting off topic. I'm giving DE of the benefit of the doubt on this one, but if you are correct, then that is a major problem, and should be addressed as well. 3 hours ago, Sitchrea said: We are giving constuctive criticism because we care about the success and future of Warframe. If that's against the rules then we shouldn't have a forum. The topic is heated, but let's do our best to keep civil about this, as this is a very important issue. I can agree with that, I'm just using past examples (somewhat recent ones at that). I truly fear this thread will end with the same note as the one from last week, but I hope not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctis_The_Buckethead Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, Letter13 said: Posts aimed to rile, incense or otherwise provoke people are not condoned. It also added nothing constructive to the conversation at hand, it was a "Let's see a show of hands!" post. This is why it was removed. Oh ok, so thats why,makes sense, thanks for letting me know, wont do that spesific type of post to try to make a point, and will use different methods that are a bit less "Aimed to rile" in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleesus Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 minute ago, bugme143 said: Nice, real nice. Edit and backtrack when people post direct evidence that you're lying. Awesome job. And you wonder why people trust your word slightly less than Bernie Madoff's... What lie exactly? 1 minute ago, Goombpaler said: Can someone actually tell me how community mods are given their position? Do you mean us community moderators or in game chat mods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sitchrea Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Goombpaler said: Can someone actually tell me how community mods are given their position? From what DE describes, I believe it's just hand-picking. Which is why this unfortunately appears even scummier, as it looks like a good-ole-boy system. If you know a guy, you're in. See why we're concerned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Court_Joker Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, Cleesus said: What lie exactly? Do you mean us community moderators or in game chat mods? Why not both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune_me Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Sitchrea said: That's awfully materialistic to say. I think DE care about more than money, they've proven many times they have greater morals than to just create a slot machine. I just want to know what they think of these apparent double standards. Then what's with all the "if DE allows this it will have severe consequences". If DE cares more about their standards than consequences, doesn't that mean that all of this is pointless and they will stick to their standards rather than being pressured by people threatening to leave to the game into changing them? Edited May 31, 2018 by rune_me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord-Taco-the-Great Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, Vistha-Kai said: Except the Support instantly locks down such tickets without any response let alone an inquiry to get more details. They didn't lock mine, but it's been open for around three weeks with no response. It doesn't seem like anyone wants to take it, but we'll see. However, I've had more luck using the community inbox. Be careful you don't get a certain member who has close ties with these mods, as they seem to have a bias in support of them. However, this is just one member and should not be treated as the whole. I lucked out and got an indifferent member, who responded kindly and concisely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugme143 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Sitchrea said: Be respectful. Can you elaborate in a respectful way what you mean? He originally posted that people, including GOTL and mods, don't get punished for stuff done outside of the game. Someone responded asking about that dude who was kicked out of GOTL for something he did outside of game, and @Letter13 edited his post to cover up his lies or lack of knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sitchrea Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, Goombpaler said: Why not both? ^This^ Ultimately we have no idea how mods are chosen. The wording in the description of moderators gives us nothing concrete, and appears to be nothing more than, "This guy sounds good." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cibyllae Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, rune_me said: 9 minutes ago, Cibyllae said: The grand canyon started with a crack friend, and right about now the singing of the canaries is getting pretty quiet. Not really. Like I said, talking is easy, acting not so much. Unless this actually causes DE to loose players in a large enough amount that it is noticeable, why should they even bother reacting to it. Have you stopped playing the game because of this? No? Why would you assume anyone else has? What are you saying not really to? That the grand canyon didn't start with a crack or that this situation is not a Canary in A Coal Mine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord-Taco-the-Great Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Sitchrea said: ^This^ Ultimately we have no idea how mods are chosen. The wording in the description of moderators gives us nothing concrete, and appears to be nothing more than, "This guy sounds good." Are we talking forum mods or chat mods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Court_Joker Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 On an unrelated note, I think this is the longest a thread of this nature has gone on (in number of replies) without getting blocked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sitchrea Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 minute ago, rune_me said: Then what's with all the "if DE allows this it will have severe consequences". If DE cares more about their standards than consequences, doesn't that mean that all of this is pointless and they will stick to their standards rather than being pressure by people threatening to leave to the game into changing them? I'm not really sure you understand what we're discussing. We don't want anything changed with the game - we want moderator accountability. Something that should be in place, but apparently isn't - at least to a satisfactory degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord-Taco-the-Great Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 I also ask that we try to keep this thread on topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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