(XB1/PS4) Virtual Cursor Feedback Megathread

[SilentMobius]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Astro_BS-AS said:

DE, please. We need an answer. Don't let this update to be remembered as the one that killed Warframe on Consoles.

And again. Please. Answer.

DE Megan already has on twitter:

 

[(XBOX)Shad0w Rabbit]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Astro_BS-AS said:

DE, please. We need an answer. Don't let this update to be remembered as the one that killed Warframe on Consoles.

And again. Please. Answer.

They pretty much have already answered us. We've been told "you'll get used to it" and that feels like a slap in the face.

[(PSN)MANNERLESS]

I won’t lump anything, and the community, aka the people paying their way, wont either.

 

the chat is literally on fire. Flames are all over trade too, its a matter of time til we get our “lotus is sorry” gifts.

[(PSN)jimmythehat89]

Well, goodbye Warframe community, its been fun playing with you all, time to delete.

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

7 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

The only things I've pointed out are pointless are "roll back" or "needs a switch" comments because DE have stated categorically that it can't and won't happen. Which I understand from a development POV as it's highly likely that all the UI work already committed for Venus/Sacrifice requires the new UI scheme.

 

1

How so? The UI does not affect the in mission gameplay outside of fishing/mining, as Sacrifice will be Cutscenes and missions. there is no need to integrate the New UI into The Sacrifice as a critical element.

[(PSN)OI_P3Z_IO]

Excellent. So there it is. We've screwed the UI and we're not reverting back. So accept it or leave. Odd stance for a F2P reliant on in game purchases to make revenue *shrugs*

Also - not sure if it was mentioned - but Trade with another player is painful. Try it DE. Can;t even get to "PLAT" to trade without moving cursour, selecting just below the microscopic vertical scroll bar, clicking down once, then moving across to select the plat sign, then selecting plat.....my god. Used to be X, Up, Up, Up, R2 how much you want.

Edited June 6, 2018 by (PS4)OI_P3Z_IO

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

7 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

DE Megan already has on twitter:

 

A nonsense non-answer for a huge misstep on their part. As I said to Megan on twitter. Sometimes you take a shortcut only to find out your bogged down in road works and Bridge that has washed out. You can sit their and wait for the roadworks to complete or try and cross where the bridge was and crash your bus, or you can backtrack to where you were and correct your path or at least give the passengers the option to change buses and get to their destination safely.

[(PSN)FurryZenJustice]

6 hours ago, (XB1)ChewyAM said:

Additionally though, I question the wisdom of rolling these major UI changes during a blackout period before a major event like Tennocon.  Even if this change was in the name of reduced code size and optimization, OR as a setup for a new framework from which to build a new warframe experience, why not wait until the rest of the UI changes that are coming, instead of bolting on these changes to the existing framework?  No matter how you look at it, judgement in many aspects of this roll out is severely lacking (at least from my perspective, as an end-user).

There's no question in my mind that this release was a mistake. I agree with you and most of the community there. I have to wonder if what we got was just unfortunately timed. It may be that the cursor charges were supposed to come with the new UI, but the new UI didn't make it in time. I've made that mistake before myself -- promoting code to the next release before it was ready and then having to scramble to fix it. The problem that most people who haven't worked in the industry don't understand that once code is in for awhile it's virtually impossible to remove. Developers have a giant undo stack, but it's shared between everyone, and changes built on changes mean that really you can only go forward.

[(PSN)NachoZissou]

13 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

I was referring to the UI14 changes. This update has unified and streamlined the code base, that was the point if it. The point of the U14 updates was to simplify.

You are mistaken.

My point here is to help you understand that "roll back" is not an option because there are plenty of players who don't follow twitter and haven't been reading the progress on this over the previous months and who aren't developers in real life. I have been following it and I am a developer and I know that DE have gone all in with this new streamlined UI control codebase and a rollback or a switch or a point-by-point re-implementation of all previous mapping isn't going to happen, at all (As Steve and Megan have plainly stated)

I've literally asked people here to expand on specific pain points so quite clearly I do care, I personally think that the more specifics you bring up the quicker DE will be able to factor them in a systemic manner, rather than the ad-hock hackery that the previous UI had, which cost DE time and thus money whenever they wanted to add UI elements, and resulting in patch cycles to repair UI bugs.

The only things I've pointed out are pointless are "roll back" or "needs a switch" comments because DE have stated categorically that it can't and won't happen. Which I understand from a development POV as it's highly likely that all the UI work already committed for Venus/Sacrifice requires the new UI scheme.

Criticism of specific game-actions and use cases is what's needed, and I think it would be a shame if players voices were lost because they spent their time calling for something that's never going to happen rather than engage with the process of making what is happening get better, and quickly

This nonsense should be beneath you.

I think you've made these same points several times now and while your intentions seem good there's really no point in you showing up here to repeat yourself over and over, especially if some people are getting annoyed by it. 

If people want to provide constructive feedback they will and if they want to let off some steam they're more than entitled to. It's not your place to try and shut them down. 

[(XBOX)Shad0w Rabbit]

At this point I just want to get some real reassurance that when all the UI changes have been rolled out they will have seen how much the controller players hate the cursor and give us some version of what we had. Make it so that if only a gamepad/controller is detected face button shortcuts can be used, drag and drop mods wont be enabled, and double clicking will not be a thing. If a keyboard and mouse is detected then let things work how they are right now because that feels like what this is for. I really want to flhave fait that DE will hear our pleas and work with us on compromising with menu navigation when all is said and done and the new UI is fully implimented.

[SilentMobius]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)NachoZissou said:

I think you've made these same points several times now and while your intentions seem good there's really no point in you showing up here to repeat yourself over and over, especially if some people are getting annoyed by it. 

If people replying to me had read them I wouldn't feel the need to. But you are right, and I have no intention of doing anything other than reply to people addressing me directly, currently.

8 minutes ago, (PS4)NachoZissou said:

If people want to provide constructive feedback they will and if they want to let off some steam they're more than entitled to. It's not your place to try and shut them down. 

Blowing off steam is one thing, you'll notice I haven't said anything to people simply staying they "hate it" or the suchlike, because they're entitled to their opinions.

It's a just a few comments like: "revert this" and "make it a switch" that I've commented on.

Also, for me to "shut them down" I have to be telling then not to talk, all I've been saying is that if they continue with that track their voices and opinions will be lost, because DE have made it clear that those are not options that are available.

Edited June 6, 2018 by SilentMobius

[(PSN)XxDDKillaxX]

I agree with sickpup here, overall a very negative experience. Cursor is far too slow and adds more movements and selections leading to a less optimized feel. auto-selecting the top item in whatever screen is opened (start menu, navigation window with events etc..) might help here.

 As others have said, increasing the cursor speed leads to a clunky and hard to pinpoint experience. Why do I have to hold a button and drag slightly to move a mod? Seriously, this isn't a mouse we're using.

Chat feels ok, but having to wait for the cursor to slide over to the box and scroll to find names again just seems lethargic, though I do like the feel of a cursor to select different names.

I'm not trying to be mean here but who on the team picked up a controller to play test this and said "man this feels great!"? It honestly feels to me like the UI upgrade was done for the PC then there were problems translating to console so you stuck it in there and hoped for the best. One user above said he plugged in a mouse and keyboard and it felt amazing and I'm sure it does but if I wanted to play this on PC I wouldn't be on the console forums. There have always been problems translating these kinds of things to console but we had a system that worked and worked well. This, by comparison, seems like a very weak effort that wasn't even necessary in the end. 

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

Is it just me or did this thread just lose half a dozen posts?

[Guest]

It's usually us PC players that suffer from crappy UIs so I guess it's only fair that you get to understand our frustration better.

But jokes aside, these kind of "one size fits all" -solutions usually end up being pretty bad for everyone. Right now Warframe's UI is annoyingly console-y for PC players while also being annoyingly PC-oriented for console players.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Guest

[(PSN)Astro_BS-AS]

35 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

DE Megan already has on twitter:

 

They didn't. A tweet from yesterday? Please....

And kudos to you if you like this change.... I don't and I'll keep expressing my opinion.

[(PSN)capt_sean-luc]

Well thank you DE for your last update, I switched off within one hour and hit the forum ,in the same way when destiny stopped being fun. I would rather be playing warframe but its now a chore. on the bright side i've washed and polished the car cut the grass and am now going out, these things would never have happened if not for your update.

Thanks for the great game, I supported you by buying lots of plat for things i never needed, but think you deserved it for your great work you have done, ill check back from time to time to see if you've fixed it and I'll keep an eye on youtube as I love warframe. this is a great community best ive ever found, I hope you listen to them as its obvious their not happy with what you have done.  

[SilentMobius]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Astro_BS-AS said:

They didn't. A tweet from yesterday? Please....

That tweet was issued when this thread was well under way as a direct response to a request for a rollback. It's as explicit as you're getting for now.

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Astro_BS-AS said:

And kudos to you if you like this change.... I don't and I'll keep expressing my opinion.

I think it's currently woefully under-featured for general use. But completely required to prevent development slowdown (and thus cost) for future UI changes. I also think that specific feedback on what you have (rather than requests to revert) will help everyone. You're opinion is yours to express of course, I was replying because a statement from DE was requested, and that was made about this very issue.

Edited June 6, 2018 by SilentMobius

[(PSN)OeilCeleste]

@SilentMobius Congrats for the patience you're showing here... Don't think it's simple to be in a position like this.

Well, I'm no developper, and I barely understand the "code source" thing, but I get that for developpement it is easier to unify it.
So, before some constructive feedback, here is the only criticism I want to adress to DE:

I know that Sacrifice and everything else are most waited by everyone. I know that delaying them would cause much trouble in the community. But this attitude is felt like a slap in the face.
No problem, if you want to change th UI, do it. But then, you pause every other thing for a while, and when you do an update, the new UI should already be functional. Some minors tweaks to do, yes, but here it's on a whole different level. It's "ok we have to put it out, so take it as it is, be patient for we don't know how long, and enjoy this s***"...
Not a very pleasant attitude.
But I guess you always learn from your mistakes...

On the feedback (keep in mind I don't understand how this all thing work, so I don't know if what I say is doable).
Everything have been said I think, but here we are:

- We should be able to see what's inside a relic simply by sliding on it. No need to click on it, as it is mostly uncovinient.
- Fore mods, a simple "click" the mod "click" the place you want to put it in should be fine. No dragging needed.
- Would be nice (as other mentioned) to revert the new square button for extractors to the x.
- In the arsenal, it is terrible to have to go to a warframe or a weapon, before being able to chose between "equipe", "customize" etc by aiming at those tiny boxes with the cursor... I don't know if implementing shortcuts is possible with the new UI, if not the whole thing should be thought again. Maybe add the three options directly in the main box of the frame/weapon??
- In general, shortcuts should be added again by a way or another. It is painful when you have to accept or refuse a vote for a mission to select the option, instead of just pressing sqaure/triangle.
- The Zoom/dezoom in the starchart is somewhat distrubing. This I don't know if it's just because I'm not used to it, or because it is bad as everything else.
- Too many "double/triple clicks" to select things.
- The selection of alert, sorties etc is really annoying, as you have to scroll, then select the mission, then click it.
- In general the speed of the cursor should be adapted to every type of menu. Also, there should be a "starting point" strategicaly chosen for every menu, to save time.

Now on the good side of things.

- I'm not so disturbed by the scrolling option with the right stick ! I think it works ok in the foundry. Bit less in the arsenal, but this function seems pleasant to me.
- On PS4, we are able to scrolls through resources/mods/stats at the end of a mission, even during the "spaceship loading", which was not possible before.

Won't be able to play 'till next week, so I didn't try everything for now.
Hope DE will be VERY quick to start repairing their mistakes. 🙂

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

27 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

If people replying to me had read them I wouldn't feel the need to. But you are right, and I have no intention of doing anything other than reply to people addressing me directly, currently.

Blowing off steam is one thing, you'll notice I haven't said anything to people simply staying they "hate it" or the suchlike, because they're entitled to their opinions.

It's a just a few comments like: "revert this" and "make it a switch" that I've commented on.

Also, for me to "shut them down" I have to be telling then not to talk, all I've been saying is that if they continue with that track their voices and opinions will be lost, because DE have made it clear that those are not options that are available.

Ya u have said that alot... We got it. No need to repeat, yet again.

[(PSN)Damontar]

All i ask after a few hours, to chill the **** out, is this..... At Least put the Hot keys / Shortcuts back in. Whether it is for the xbox or playstation. The interface depends on a mouse, which I refuse to use on my couch.

I understand reverting may be impossible due to code.. fine no problem.. but in that same code you can add the shortcut menu's back.. Like in the arsonel, trading other players, mod station, and basically everywhere.. keep your cursor... but give us our shortcuts back.. 

i see bad things ahead... you should have finished cooking your food all the way and had it taste tested. but instead you tossed in a few ingredients and served it up.. food poisoning can kill..... and i never thought that you would all hang yourselves and pull this "We can only Move forward" crap. Moving forward can be a great thing... but sometimes there is a landmine field and going back where you came from is the safest path to take.

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

Yes it does, it must be optional.

 

It is nice having nearly the full pc experience when plugging in a normal mouse and keyboard into the usb slots in my ps4 tho. They just need to allow custom keybindings and allow typing directly into the chat tab..

[(PSN)jimmymare]

this UI complain volume will soon be big enough for Guinness World Records. Let the number of console players count be the evidence of it.

[(PSN)Aivos332]

Although I understand they dont want to revert and improve on what they've implemented, why are they sticking us with a half baked system when we already had one that performed the function better?

IMO they should do a hotfix to revert the UI system to the way it was, or at least provide the option too use the old UI, until they've made improvements to the new UI system so it is actually an improvement over what we already had. 

There are aspects of the new UI system that are good however they are marred by the removal of several features that were a boon to the console community. Atm console UI feels like a bad port of PC UI.

Edited June 6, 2018 by (PS4)Aivos332

[(PSN)Nosferaeh-CR]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)OeilCeleste said:

@SilentMobius Congrats for the patience you're showing here... Don't think it's simple to be in a position like this.

Well, I'm no developper, and I barely understand the "code source" thing, but I get that for developpement it is easier to unify it.
So, before some constructive feedback, here is the only criticism I want to adress to DE:

I know that Sacrifice and everything else are most waited by everyone. I know that delaying them would cause much trouble in the community. But this attitude is felt like a slap in the face.
No problem, if you want to change th UI, do it. But then, you pause every other thing for a while, and when you do an update, the new UI should already be functional. Some minors tweaks to do, yes, but here it's on a whole different level. It's "ok we have to put it out, so take it as it is, be patient for we don't know how long, and enjoy this s***"...
Not a very pleasant attitude.
But I guess you always learn from your mistakes...

On the feedback (keep in mind I don't understand how this all thing work, so I don't know if what I say is doable).
Everything have been said I think, but here we are:

- We should be able to see what's inside a relic simply by sliding on it. No need to click on it, as it is mostly uncovinient.
- Fore mods, a simple "click" the mod "click" the place you want to put it in should be fine. No dragging needed.
- Would be nice (as other mentioned) to revert the new square button for extractors to the x.
- In the arsenal, it is terrible to have to go to a warframe or a weapon, before being able to chose between "equipe", "customize" etc by aiming at those tiny boxes with the cursor... I don't know if implementing shortcuts is possible with the new UI, if not the whole thing should be thought again. Maybe add the three options directly in the main box of the frame/weapon??
- In general, shortcuts should be added again by a way or another. It is painful when you have to accept or refuse a vote for a mission to select the option, instead of just pressing sqaure/triangle.
- The Zoom/dezoom in the starchart is somewhat distrubing. This I don't know if it's just because I'm not used to it, or because it is bad as everything else.
- Too many "double/triple clicks" to select things.
- The selection of alert, sorties etc is really annoying, as you have to scroll, then select the mission, then click it.
- In general the speed of the cursor should be adapted to every type of menu. Also, there should be a "starting point" strategicaly chosen for every menu, to save time.

Now on the good side of things.

- I'm not so disturbed by the scrolling option with the right stick ! I think it works ok in the foundry. Bit less in the arsenal, but this function seems pleasant to me.
- On PS4, we are able to scrolls through resources/mods/stats at the end of a mission, even during the "spaceship loading", which was not possible before.

Won't be able to play 'till next week, so I didn't try everything for now.
Hope DE will be VERY quick to start repairing their mistakes. 🙂

This is a great and valuable feedback, I totally agree in every aspect. 

 

I hope they read it. 

 

And of course, thank you very much DE team for all your hard work, in general I love this update on consoles. 

See you. 

[(PSN)MistressFortune]

This really does kinda suck. I'm currently working my way through building all the current non-prime Warframes and was planning on buying the more frustrating-to-obtain ones with plat, but if the game is going to be frustrating to play full stop then I'll just spend the money on something else. 

Going to keep playing for now, since DE have said there is more to come that will hopefully resolve the issues, but if there aren't any improvements I'll just move on.