How to fix RAIDS

[Zinkaiser]

Hi,

I'll try to be as short and as direct as possible. So we know that raids were kinda a sweep-fest, if you got a party that already know what to do it won't take much time to finish the raid effortlessly, removing the fun factor of doing the raid, which is a problem, so if a noob got in with a group of pro raiders like myself in my early raid days, I had no idea what happened and then, gg guys reap your rewards, bb cu 2mrow.

 

So here is how DE can fix this.

 

Non-tenno Boss Damaging Weaponry.

 

You know how in most games there is a tank, a healer, and then DPS, not in warframe though, in warframe you are either killing or dead and that is due to how the game works, 1 shotting, Crowd Control, defensive abilities like limbo and frost, no matter how hard DE may try they won't be able to easily change those mechanics, because that's how the game runs. So, to change this and make it viable in raids, some other boss damaging methods must be introduced.

 

I'll just make a raid scenario here for the LOR raid, make adjustments, new objectives and so on, and hopefully we'll be able to grasp what I mean by what I said earlier, here goes something.

 

1- First mission, we enter earth destroy the toxin injectors same ol same.

2- Second mission, we enter, we play the step on the pads game, then we escort the core thingy, same ol same, no changes for part 1 and 2 here.

3- Third mission, the assassination, well this is where it gets tricky now, the first part we do normally, get vay hek to get down and fight like a man-clone that he is.

   3.1- the area must be remade into a bigger arena, and vay hek is provided with a bigger stronger vehicle, different from the one we fight him on earth with.

   3.2- new stationary weapons are pulled up from their spots to provide both grineer units and tenno some firepower, much like the ramparts but bigger and have much fire power.

4- So now the fight will become more intense, vayhek will target areas on the ground and launch some missiles up in the air, covering up most of the area except some parts of the map.

    4.1 of course people will use limbo, well DUH, hek's new vehicle will provide him with a nullifier/jammer of warframe abilities, debuffing certain areas or tennos after like 3 seconds of active buffs/abilities so as to provide a little window of cast time and buff benefit before debuff occurs. same goes for trinity and oberon

5- the missiles will hit, kill those standing in the spots, grineer units will then begin to swarm the map.

6- at this time hek will charge a new weapon of his he stole from the corpus, a big mounted opticor laser...many of them, during this charge time, the tenno will use the new mountable weapons to shoot hek with, after the charge is complete hek will fire multiple times and try to decimate as much as he can in his vicinity, including those stationary weapons, new ones will spawn after the missile phase.

7- after hek's new vehicle is destroyed he will eject and escape into a jumpship and fly off to a new fomorian mega castle thingy, and tada, archwing.

8- we may stop the raid at this point and finish off the normal part of LOR, the rest of the archwing fight is considered the nightmare raid, with of course...better rewards.

 

I'll stop the post here and continue later. However it will be nice if people shared their ideas as well and hopefully DE will put this into consideration or add to whatever they're doing to the raids.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Zinkaiser

[Klavinmour]

How to fix raids.

Copy Destiny's raids.

Done.

[Zinkaiser]

2 minutes ago, Klavinmour said:

How to fix raids.

Copy Destiny's raids.

Done.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmnaaaaaaaaaaah. Other games' raids sure.

[Klavinmour]

Just now, Zinkaiser said:

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmnaaaaaaaaaaah. Other games' raids sure.

The style and mechanics of D1's raids would easily be fitting within Warframe.

The main thing you'd need to do is make the maps bigger or more designed for Warframe's movement system.

[Zinkaiser]

you could say that but we don't need destiny in warframe hehe.

[Xico.xide]

9 minutes ago, Zinkaiser said:

you could say that but we don't need destiny in warframe hehe.

Why not though? Is it it because they're similar? Even though they're literally nothing alike.  Just as Klavin said, they can just be accommodated to suit warframe's gameplay and change up it's design to suit the factions in warframe.

[Zinkaiser]

well the way raids used to be built allowed the bosses to be taken down in an instant, if you make the bosses immune to all sorts of damage except from a non-tenno source, you solve most problems, but you must create new mechanics.

[Klavinmour]

1 minute ago, Zinkaiser said:

well the way raids used to be built allowed the bosses to be taken down in an instant, if you make the bosses immune to all sorts of damage except from a non-tenno source, you solve most problems, but you must create new mechanics.

MMOs have tried that in the past, and the raids that used such mechanics quickly became the least played.

Why?

Because players hate that, there isn't a player anywhere who'd enjoy it.

[Zinkaiser]

I did enjoy the raids that had mechanics, but the problem was mostly the number of people involved and learning them, most of the time, like in wow, player count kills raiding, too many to handle and too much preparations. We don't have that in warframe, so it will be much easier to implement mechanics.

[Koldraxon-732]

LoR 2.0:

Spoiler

 

I like the concept of this 'bigger, badder Vay Hek' thing, but since Sanctuary Onslaught was introduced, it would make sense to have a transitioning tile (like a tramway or the likes) held by Steel Meridian. Once everyone's on that tram, it would begin to move on; the area is locked down, meaning the previous areas until that point become inaccessible, and anyone left behind is forcibly teleported to the tram.

As the tram progresses, the previous tileset is deleted and rewards for stage 1 are issued. Once the tram arrives, a Fomorian lasers down the tramway, making it impossible to go back and when it fires, stage 2 loads in, using the lag to add emphasis on the Fomorian's weapon. Second mission progresses until you complete it and go to another tramway.

Tram scenario repeats, but this time there's no Fomorian. Oh, and all enemies on LoR MK II are a mixture of Frontier, Tusk, and Imperial (Kuva), starting with normal Frontier units on stage 1, then Frontier + Tusk on stage 2, then Tusk + Kuva on stage 3a.

Stage 3a is the normal Vay Hek assassination, but all enemies here are Tusk and Kuva. Vay Hek is shielded by a pair of Kuva-reskins of the old Frontier-Void sabotage bosses, who are shielded by Kuva (use Void Dash to remove immunities permanently, and get 100 Kuva). Vay Hek, once defeated, would announce that he's got a trick up his sleeve.

Another tramway is then located, but is then blasted down by a frightening new weapon that Vay Hek's new body is wielding; his new form is a reconstituted Gauntlyst, spliced into a bigger, Kuva-variant of the Terra Frame, with his actual body being where the Gauntlyst's disc-shaped 'head' would be. He's not as impervious as Eidolon's Fragments, though.

You are forced to deploy Archwing to fly after him as he's hunched over on another tram, firing everything from Bombard missiles to Sentient lasers. You fail to kill him, but may manage to tear off some of his weapons' hardpoints. You have a time limit to do this.

Stage 4 starts when Vay Hek leaps off from the tram when the tram collides with the dock, causing the door to malfunction. You are then forced to circumvent this with the Archwing until you arrive at the bigger arena, and are knocked out of Archwing by Kuva Ogmas that were armed with anti-air missiles. You massacre the Tusk-Kuva forces and the 4 Guardians protecting the heavy turrets, which were intended to be used on the Tenno. The arena shows glaring signs of being unfinished, with Kuva workers still present, fleeing when you arrive.

Vay Hek detaches from a Kuva Courier which was carrying him, and lands on the battlefield. He begins to fight with whatever he has left. 
Bossfight initiation phase: Vay Hek fires the cannon skyward, causing a barrage of Grineer-Sentient missiles much like in his original bossfight and Kela's. Fight begins.
Phase 1: Vay Hek would EMP the map, briefly disabling all powers and primary weapons. You have to get on the turrets to do damage with them. Once enough damage is dealt, the EMP aura cuts out.
Phase 2: Vay Hek would fire at whoever's dealing the most damage to him. If you've disarmed him, he will call down the Courier and install a pair of giant hands, and then grab a stupidly oversized Hek missile-shotgun hybrid which has 4 times the barrels and fires in full auto with each set of barrels rotating.
Phase 2a: Vay Hek will reload and is exposed. This will occur frequently.
Phase 3: At 1/2 health, Vay Hek will call in Kuva Guardians and will be shielded by them.
Phase 4: At 1/4 health, Vay Hek will throw his prized weapon back up to the Courier before abandoning the body. The body, due to being Sentient, begins attacking randomly, and then grabs Vay Hek, allowing you to finish him.
Phase 5: The liberated Sentient requests help to return home. to the Plains, but the Lotus (or any appropriate leader, like Caressa Tal) wants it to go to extraction. You escort it as it breaks down the environment in an epic fashion on the way to extraction, before a Steel Meridian Courier picks up the Sentient.
Aftermath: Your inbox gets a message from this unique Sentient which is using a text-to-speech rendition of Vay Hek's voice, thanking you and giving you appropriate rewards; Arcanes and some Eidolon shards equal to doing 3 Tridolons.

 

Corpus edition would likely involve Ambulas, Raptors, Bursas and Razorbacks, as well as Nef Anyo and a converted Orokin Tower which is churning out Prime versions of all of these things.

Spoiler

Stage 1: Spy mission. You need to get at least 1 vault to proceed. There are 9 vaults, labelled in order. Completion would trigger a portal which pushes in Ambulas. Defeat Ambulas, hack it, then follow it through the portal to initiate stage 2.

Stage 2: Escort hacked Ambulas. You need to ensure this hacked Ambulas reaches a critical network location alive.
Stage 2a: Interception. The Ambulas had accidentally triggered alarms as it's Animo micro-processor isn't used to doing these things. It uses adorable text-to-speech to speak. After completing four fast rounds (each round is 25%),  a trio of Raptors is deployed. Destroy them to get the big door to open. The hacked Ambulas stays behind and locks down the room once you proceed, and will await Perrin Sequence retrieval so it can be with it's beloved creator. 

Stage 3: After defeating mechanized Crewmen which blocked the door, you enter a factory assembly room but are unable to stop the process. Corrupted Corpus units begin to attempt to stop you from progressing, and that includes a Bursa Prime, which is twice as big as a normal Bursa, and looks the part. Bursa Prime takes design cues from Vauban Prime, and functionally engages like a hybrid of all 3 Bursa types. Defeating it allows you to hack it. Upon success, it leads you into the next area which is revealed to be a Quality Assurance room.

Stage 4: The door that led you to the massive QA room slams shut. Bursas swarm the area. You face Raptor Prime, which is revealed to also have legs like a bird, and lands to taunt you with a loud robotic scree before going back up again. You can clip it's wings. The hacked Bursa Prime will keep the other Bursas off, and if it beats any, they automatically get hacked. Defeating Raptor Prime causes it to emit a distress call. Raptor Prime takes visual cues from Zephyr Prime.

Razorback Prime enters the room. It's like Razorback was merged with Rhino Prime. The room transforms into a bigger, Orokin version of the Razorback bossfight room and the bossfight plays out the same, but here's the catch: Razorback Prime can use Rhino Roar and Stomp, and is vulnerable to EMP. Beating this ends the Raid with a victory.

Due to time constraints I don't have time right now to make up a new Infested, Corrupted/Orokin, or Sentient raid.

[Zinkaiser]

@Koldraxon-732 some of your ideas are nice but they butcher up the story, we could use some consistency with the story here 🙂 

[(PSN)Magpie_42]

LoR is dead and buried... and not a moment too soon...

It was a “me too” thing and didn’t really belong in this game.

DE fixed LoR the best way possible: deep sixed it! Job well done!

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

I do like the idea of strategic positioning requirements in raids. It's very common in MMO raiding. In fact, in FFXIV it's common throughout the entire game since enemies often have powerful attacks with warning indicators showing danger zones to avoid the attack. 

I wouldn't mind something along those lines here, for raids, but I'm not sure how well it would transition over to a fast paced game like this. I'm sure it can be done though.

11 minutes ago, (PS4)Magpie_42 said:

LoR is dead and buried... and not a moment too soon...

It was a “me too” thing and didn’t really belong in this game.

DE fixed LoR the best way possible: deep sixed it! Job well done!

You do know the Trials are only gone temporarily, right? 

They are overhauling the raiding system to be better. The challenge in them wasn't based on difficulty so much as chaos, and ended up with players requiring a very specific set of frames and builds to even participate just so it can be cheesed, much like Eidolons really.

We do in fact need real end-game in Warframe. Sorties are a joke, and while Eidolons are interesting the encounters aren't elaborate enough since a good team can kill several Hydrolysts in a 50 minute span without thinking about it.

[HIGHDAMAGE]

make the raid node visible / instead of a key hidden somewhere in the market

add easy mode to it along with lotus instructions / they required just one thing KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THE MECHANICS (not everyone has the will to google)

also worth to mention they were full viable with any frame and fun at the same time imo the most complete mission this game ever had / if Raids was a mistake  then enjoy your repetitive eidolons and os coz i will not 

 

 

 

 

[peterc3]

2 hours ago, HIGHDAMAGE said:

(not everyone has the will to google)

So how did the first players do it, if there were no instructions for them to follow?

[HIGHDAMAGE]

6 hours ago, peterc3 said:

So how did the first players do it, if there were no instructions for them to follow?

they figure it by playing (those was the pros) but for a better reintroduction to a more larger playerbase they definitely need instructions (which was filled by RSB at time)

Edited June 6, 2018 by HIGHDAMAGE

[(PSN)Baronhalt88]

I agree something needs to be done. Using Destiny’s raids could be a starting point but there is much more potential than that with Warframe. A true End Game would take this game over the edge. Like, top 5 MMO’s ever edge. I’ve played them all, and the one thing missing from Warframe is that feeling of accomplishment you get from grouping up with your friends and taking on a challenge. It would be great for the game giving long time players a reason to stick at it. Not to mention a lot of people are missing out on the game bc they won’t even give it a chance knowing there is no trial/raid material. Make the loot nontradeable and a once per week drop and/or use a token system much like standing purchases. Whether it’s arcanes, raid specific mods, heaps of resources, or dare I say... Fashion. That being said,  I still love the game. The only reason I made an account and had to comment on the thread is bc I watched a Destiny 2 streamer who was raiding and thought, man, I’d really like to give that game a shot.  I’d rather not have to. 

Edited August 13, 2018 by (PS4)Baronhalt88