Could you NOT give out the next Umbra frame so easily?

[xXRAZIEL855Xx]

3 minutes ago, Threa said:

I disagree, not everything needs to require skill to obtain. I don't want to be too cynical but I sense that you want it to require "skill" because you don't want everyone to have an Umbra, and it's this elitist mentality that Warframe has never condoned and I hope it never does. Most things in the game require time and/or plat and that is one of my favorite things about this game and what sets it apart from others.

The beautiful thing about Umbra is that is a gift to every single player from the devs and I hope every single Umbra is treated as a gift as well. It's DE's way of saying thank you for supporting and playing their game. I love it! 

I'm definitely gonna have to disagree with this im not saying and never said that Umbra should lock out a certain sect of players from getting them (aside from noobs) i'm saying if they are gonna make the Umbra better than the Prime giving them out as easy as it was in The Sacrifice is a bad idea because

1.Prime warframes are already dirt easy to obtain

2.If you make Umbra just as easy to obtain as Prime but the stats are better it will make Prime even more meh than it already is.

Therefore the solution to this problem is a higher skill ceiling than prime so prime doesn't become obsolete and Umbra doesn't become the next prime.

[seprent]

23 minutes ago, Threa said:

I disagree, not everything needs to require skill to obtain. I don't want to be too cynical but I sense that you want it to require "skill" because you don't want everyone to have an Umbra, and it's this elitist mentality that Warframe has never condoned and I hope it never does. Most things in the game require time and/or plat and that is one of my favorite things about this game and what sets it apart from others.

The beautiful thing about Umbra is that is a gift to every single player from the devs and I hope every single Umbra is treated as a gift as well. It's DE's way of saying thank you for supporting and playing their game. I love it! 

^ this i agree with this in the case of Excalibur umbra personally i was expecting a normal frame grind but hey cant say no to a pleasant surprise and seeing it as a thank you is nice since DE was really happy they would get this update to us and from what Steve said worked really hard on crunching it out for us 

Now @xXRAZIEL855Xx in the case of other umbras who knows the method of getting them might be different from Excalibur umbra's case we simply dont know so all we can really do is wait, speculate, talk, and see i doubt they would all be THIS easy to get other umbra frames when they would come so i don't want to be rude in saying this but maybe jumping the gun on how other umbras would be obtained no offence is meant in it 

[xXRAZIEL855Xx]

2 minutes ago, seprent said:

^ this i agree with this in the case of Excalibur umbra personally i was expecting a normal frame grind but hey cant say no to a pleasant surprise and seeing it as a thank you is nice since DE was really happy they would get this update to us and from what Steve said worked really hard on crunching it out for us 

Now @xXRAZIEL855Xx in the case of other umbras who knows the method of getting them might be different from Excalibur umbra's case we simply dont know so all we can really do is wait, speculate, talk, and see i doubt they would all be THIS easy to get other umbra frames when they would come so i don't want to be rude in saying this but maybe jumping the gun on how other umbras would be obtained no offence is meant in it 

I've said it multiple times and I will say it as many times as need be. My problem is the fact that Excalibur Umbra was given out that easily when it is indisputably better than Excalibur Prime. My fear is that in the future they will all be just as easy to obtain which is what I'm NOT a fan of because that not only breaks principle game design but if following the same pattern that Umbra>Prime will essentially make Prime more worthless than it already is.

If a game has two different weapons with the same requirements to obtain but weapon A was indisputably better than weapon B there is no reason for weapon B to exist and you must not have read the part where he/she said to continually treat Umbra as a "Thank You Gift" key word being gift as in GIVEN to you with little to no work.

[Kletse]

You can't please everyone it seems.

[seprent]

3 minutes ago, xXRAZIEL855Xx said:

I've said it multiple times and I will say it as many times as need be. My problem is the fact that Excalibur Umbra was given out that easily when it is indisputably better than Excalibur Prime. My fear is that in the future they will all be just as easy to obtain which is what I'm NOT a fan of because that not only breaks principle game design but if following the same pattern that Umbra>Prime will essentially make Prime more worthless than it already is.

If a game has two different weapons with the same requirements to obtain but weapon A was indisputably better than weapon B there is no reason for weapon B to exist and you must not have read the part where he/she said to continually treat Umbra as a "Thank You Gift" key word being gift as in GIVEN to you with little to no work.

hmm i understand where your coming from with your concern but what if the devs chose just Excalibur umbra to be given out in this fashion only and when ever in the foreseeable future they release another umbra frame have a different method of acquiring them like i said before we will have to wait and see so your concern is well placed but i think your stressing about this a bit much for lack of a better term

[xXRAZIEL855Xx]

2 minutes ago, seprent said:

hmm i understand where your coming from with your concern but what if the devs chose just Excalibur umbra to be given out in this fashion only and when ever in the foreseeable future they release another umbra frame have a different method of acquiring them like i said before we will have to wait and see so your concern is well placed but i think your stressing about this a bit much for lack of a better term

It's not just that I'm worried it could be given out again as easy as it was knowing DE they are more competent than that I just wanted to make the community aware of the consequences of giving out warframe variants that are better than prime can lead to. It was then that i was attacked by people claiming i was an elitist that wanted to lock casual players out of endgame content when EVERYTHING I've said is bound to happen IF and that is a big if they continue the patter with Excalibur Umbra. My only crime was stating facts to people who just want the latest and greatest as easy as possible.

[seprent]

Just now, xXRAZIEL855Xx said:

It's not just that I'm worried it could be given out again as easy as it was knowing DE they are more competent than that I just wanted to make the community aware of the consequences of giving out warframe variants that are better than prime can lead to. It was then that i was attacked by people claiming i was an elitist that wanted to lock casual players out of endgame content when EVERYTHING I've said is bound to happen IF and that is a big if they continue the patter with Excalibur Umbra. My only crime was stating facts to people who just want the latest and greatest as easy as possible.

hmm ok i understand on a personal note i feel its too early to tell but credit to you for trying people on the forums are uhhh weird for not wanting to use a better term

[aerelm]

I for one actually appreciate the way Excal Umbra was given, and think it was a really nice gesture on the part of DE.

What you need to consider is that Umbra Excal is a unique case and this way of acquiring Umbras will most probably not be the norm for future Umbras, and the reason it was just outright handed out maxed and potatoed is likely because people who've been here longer have been waiting for Umbra (some quite passionately) for close to three years now, and it's also the only and first publicly available alternative to starter Excal years after the release.

Additionally, the whole "Tau resist" stats on Umbras could possibly be playing a major role in future gameplay expansions, and if that tuns out to be the case, then Umbra Excal can be treated as the "Starter Umbra", which we got just by starting the Sacrifice quest, similarly to how we could get the regular Excal simply by starting the game that very first time.

Furthermore, any newer player joining after the Sacrifice release would have to grind their way all the way through the entire backlog of storyquests (which requires clearing the starchart first) before they even get to the Sacrifice. So, just because we could start the quest right after the release and then get Umbra ten minutes later, doesn't mean it didn't involve any effort to get, just that we had already put in the required effort.

Edited June 16, 2018 by aerelm

[xXRAZIEL855Xx]

1 minute ago, seprent said:

hmm ok i understand on a personal note i feel its too early to tell but credit to you for trying people on the forums are uhhh weird for not wanting to use a better term

Thanks i appreciate the civil discussion you brought to the post.

[xXRAZIEL855Xx]

2 minutes ago, aerelm said:

I for one actually appreciate the way Excal Umbra was given, and think it was a really nice gesture on the part of DE.

What you need to consider is that Umbra Excal is a unique case and this way of acquiring Umbras will most probably not be the norm for future Umbras, and the reason it was just outright handed out maxed and potatoed is likely because people who've been here longer have been waiting for Umbra (some quite passionately) for close to three years now, and it's also the only first publicly available alternative to starter Excal years after the release.

Additionally, the whole "Tau resist" stats on Umbras could possibly be playing a major role in future gameplay expansions, and if that tuns out to be the case, then Umbra Excal can be treated as the "Starter Umbra", which we got just by playing the Sacrifice, similarly to how we could get the regular Excal by playing through the starter quest with absolutely no grind.

Furthermore, any newer player joining after the Sacrifice release would have to grind their way through the entire backlog of storyquests (which requires clearing the starchart first) before they even get to the Sacrifice. So, just because we could start the quest right after the release and then get Umbra ten minutes later, doesn't mean it didn't involve any effort to get, just that we had already put in the required effort.

That's literally what i said i quite literally said in the post to let this be the ONLY Umbra aquired this easily. Also i've only actively been playing my PC account for a week and went from MR3 to MR9 and completed the whole cinematic quest line pretty easily it isn't that hard to do.

[seprent]

Just now, xXRAZIEL855Xx said:

Thanks i appreciate the civil discussion you brought to the post.

no problem rather surprised i stayed civil Migraines tend to make me erratic in mood between strangely calm and strangely pissed off best of luck to ya 

[xXRAZIEL855Xx]

1 minute ago, seprent said:

no problem rather surprised i stayed civil Migraines tend to make me erratic in mood between strangely calm and strangely pissed off best of luck to ya 

you too man/woman have a nice night

[Maka.Bones]

2 hours ago, Mattoropael said:

So you'd rather make it a glorified Focus/Amp/Magus Arcane gear check?

Because that's what it will be if you add real consequence to the kiddo deaths while fighting a Warframe that can damage you through void mode.

Why not a gear check? In any game, you need to progress in sequence. Beat stage A, to reach B, then beat B, to reach C, so on, and so on. If they want umbras, and its a late-game item, why not block it behind objects that require teamwork, and some semblance of late game equipment/experience? What's wrong with that? Why should new players automatically have everything just for showing up? Do you not realize that kills the fun of the game? What goal are they going to work for, if not this? Because there hasnt been any goal so far. This would be a great one. Its not as if there is anything in warframe thats hard to get.  Its all just time consuming. 

Edited June 16, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[xXRAZIEL855Xx]

1 minute ago, Maka.Bones said:

Why not a gear check? In any game, you need to progress in sequence. Beat stage A, to reach B, then beat B, to reach C, so on, and so on. If they want umbras, and its a late-game item, why not block it behind objects that require teamwork, and some semblanceof late game equipment/experience? What's wrong with that? Why should new players automatically have everything just for showing up? Do you not realize yhat kills the fun of the game? What goal are they goingto work for, if not this? Because there hasnt been any goal so far. This would be a great one. 

completely and 100% agree they are acting like just because they are new they will NEVER get the Umbra frames just as everything else in a game late game content should be exactly what it's namesake is late game content you don't expect an MR2 to fight eidolons why should you expect an MR 5 or 6 to easily beat sacrifice and acquire an Umbra frame which they easily can i would like to add.

[Maka.Bones]

16 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

Why not a gear check? In any game, you need to progress in sequence. Beat stage A, to reach B, then beat B, to reach C, so on, and so on. If they want umbras, and its a late-game item, why not block it behind objects that require teamwork, and some semblanceof late game equipment/experience? What's wrong with that? Why should new players automatically have everything just for showing up? Do you not realize yhat kills the fun of the game? What goal are they goingto work for, if not this? Because there hasnt been any goal so far. This would be a great one. 

Vets keep wondering  "what's the point of all this gear?" Well why not *this*? It seems like a great challenge & reward, to use all our stocked, lvld up gear & mods. I know I felt satisfied actually using my entire arsenal. It wasnt extremely challenging for me, but it didn't feel easy either. It would've been a lot harder if I hadn't already worked to get to that point. 

Edited June 16, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[VentiGlondi]

You realize that DE's idea of harder to get means 2% drop chance on rotation C?

[xXRAZIEL855Xx]

which is why I suggested a challenge based system instead of an RNG based one which i forgot to mention in the tl;dr

[Maka.Bones]

1 minute ago, VentiGlondi said:

You realize that DE's idea of harder to get means 2% drop chance on rotation C?

Which is why a gear check is a much better alternative to a "skill curve" in this specific game. 

[Maka.Bones]

It makes it a simple linear progression, rather than an "Elitist separation"

Edit: plus you would have to learn more about the game, and how to play it, to even get to that point. Like how to mod for specific enemies, or specific weapons. Teamwork & communication. Timing. Surviving sorties. How to dodge/roll mid combat, so your attackers dont instagib you in sorties (like umbra does to new players)

Edited June 16, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

9 minutes ago, xXRAZIEL855Xx said:

which is why I suggested a challenge based system instead of an RNG based one which i forgot to mention in the tl;dr

Make people take MR 18 test, but on crack. (The one where you have to attack 4 globes, in stealth, with no ranged weapons... cant be seen/heard, or you fail)

But then that would become an elitist thing. 

Edited June 16, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

I like the way it is now. Because this way, not only do you need strong weapons, warframes, and mods... but you also need to lvl up the operator's focus trees, and build them a better amp. That literally makes it the last thing in this part of the game... And it literally requires you to have made significant progress everywhere else, before unlocking the umbra. So when I consider that, it doesnt make me upset to receive it at max rank already... it even makes sense due to the lore. 

 

Except I wish they didn't allow the shield decay to persist through infinite deaths. 

Edited June 16, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[xXRAZIEL855Xx]

9 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

I like the way it is now. Because this way, not only do you need strong weapons, warframes, and mods... but you also need to lvl up the operator's focus trees, and build them a better amp. That literally makes it the last thing in this part of the game... And it literally requires you to have made significant progress everywhere else, before unlocking the umbra. So when I consider that, it doesnt make me upset to receive it at max rank already... it even makes sense due to the lore. 

 

Except I wish they didn't allow the shield decay to persist through infinite deaths. 

Like i said before my problem isn't the fact that they just gave him out like that already maxxed out my problem was the fact that they gave him out like that when he is STRONGER than his prime counterpart. The fear is that (which im pretty sure they won't but I want to inform the community why that is a bad idea because some seem to be all for making Umbras easy to acquire) is that if they keep following the pattern of Umbra>Prime while also making them as easy to get as they are now it will get to the point where there is no need for prime warframes because its just as easy to get the Umbra and they have better stats. Hopefully in the future they will make Umbra frames either way harder to obtain or MR lock them until MR12 and that is coming from a MR9 currently.

[Maka.Bones]

Atm not all frames are supposed to gwt primes

[Guest]

2 hours ago, xXRAZIEL855Xx said:

Like i said before my problem isn't the fact that they just gave him out like that already maxxed out my problem was the fact that they gave him out like that when he is STRONGER than his prime counterpart. The fear is that (which im pretty sure they won't but I want to inform the community why that is a bad idea because some seem to be all for making Umbras easy to acquire) is that if they keep following the pattern of Umbra>Prime while also making them as easy to get as they are now it will get to the point where there is no need for prime warframes because its just as easy to get the Umbra and they have better stats. Hopefully in the future they will make Umbra frames either way harder to obtain or MR lock them until MR12 and that is coming from a MR9 currently.

How is Excal Umbra better than his Prime?

Excal Umbra is quite stupid when you are not controlling him and he can die, kicking you back into the frame.

Meanwhile Excal/Excal Prime/Whatever non Umbra Excal you are using stays quiet, out of the way and doesn't die because it is invincible.

Also, the annoying Umbra Polarities in his sword and the Excal himself.

Umbras are pretty much going to be Sidegrades with the same stats as the Prime, most likely, except with one power able to annoy Sentients, no invincibility when you leave them and umbra polarities.

Edited June 16, 2018 by Guest

[Gnlstorm]

WARFRAME had a long history... This games suppose to give player FREEDOM and FUN.. Challenge and Difficult is depend on ourself.. I believe DE want warframe to be enjoyable for long Term...