Could you NOT give out the next Umbra frame so easily?

[xXRAZIEL855Xx]

I'm an active Warframe player in-game on PS4 and PC and I have never made a post until today because I'm worried that Umbra will just become the next Prime. I'm all for the Umbra frames but what i'm not for is just giving them away like at the end of The Sacrifice. Personally in my opinion (notice i said in my opinion I don't speak for the community) I don't want Umbra to be easily acquired through just grinding or trading with other players. I would like to see Umbra implemented as a way of saying "I have the skill to earn this Umbra frame" currently when I see any prime frame "I think oh that's cool I should buy it next time I have some plat"

tl;dr

Acquiring an Umbral frame should be challenging but rewarding not trade-able, not buy-able, impossible to taxi the challenge, and most importantly not based on RNG like the other frame. You can monetize it buy selling accessory packs based on the frames just like you did with Excal Umbra you know how this community likes their fashion.

[Volinus7]

Is 2000 days login milestone challenging? 

[Perisie]

You earned it by being skilled enough to beat The Sacrifice. The thing is, if you beeline straight to the mission from TWW, CoH, and Apostasy Prologue it will NOT be an easy quest. I've seen people complaining about the difficulty because they only have a Mote Amp. The problem is the huge gap in power from someone that just beat CoH, and someone who has spent hundreds of hours in the "endgame." It's essentially impossible for them to make it challenging for the high power players without alienating all of the less powerful or casual players since they won't stand a chance. That's what I think, at least.

[xXRAZIEL855Xx]

1 minute ago, Volinus7 said:

Is 2000 days login milestone challenging? 

I mean I was thinking more of a mission itself that's harder than the final stages of the sortie.

[xXRAZIEL855Xx]

3 minutes ago, Croix_Bartel said:

You earned it by being skilled enough to beat The Sacrifice. The thing is, if you beeline straight to the mission from TWW, CoH, and Apostasy Prologue it will NOT be an easy quest. I've seen people complaining about the difficulty because they only have a Mote Amp. The problem is the huge gap in power from someone that just beat CoH, and someone who has spent hundreds of hours in the "endgame." It's essentially impossible for them to make it challenging for the high power players without alienating all of the less powerful or casual players since they won't stand a chance. That's what I think, at least.

Meh im only MR9 I beat it first try its honestly mediocre the hardest part of the whole quest was being locked in locker room with 4 sentients but a cipher and running away fixed that easily. I'm also pretty sure the people that are complaining about the difficulty of the quest are treating it like The Second Dream. Also i had the mote amp.

Edited June 16, 2018 by xXRAZIEL855Xx

[Volinus7]

Just now, xXRAZIEL855Xx said:

I mean I was thinking more of a mission itself that's harder than the final stages of the sortie.

Difficulties and Balance are two things that Warframe will never have. 

[xXRAZIEL855Xx]

Just now, Volinus7 said:

Difficulties and Balance are two things that Warframe will never have. 

Even so the point im trying to make is lets not make Umbra easily acquired like prime frames i.e. buying and trading make them to where you HAVE to put in work to obtain them.

[cghawk]

like someone else already pointed out for others without as much powers it's difficult enough as it is, I died and failed the mission several times because of having to deal with the sentient? w/e they're called the mimics and conculysts , nightmare for me to deal with them, fight with excalibur umbra wasn't any better since at 100 health my operator kept getting 1shot

[polarity]

Just because it was easy for you (and me), doesn't mean that it isn't at the end of a long series of quests, that will be done with a far less diverse choice and lower level of gear, by people new to the game.

DE could take a leaf out of Arenanet's book, as to how they handle the difficulty scaling of new content (either scaling the content down to the player, or the player up to the content), but for now I'm perfectly happy knowing that they aren't making stuff like this only accessible to veterans with meta-cheese level gear.

[xXRAZIEL855Xx]

20 minutes ago, polarity said:

Just because it was easy for you (and me), doesn't mean that it isn't at the end of a long series of quests, that will be done with a far less diverse choice and lower level of gear, by people new to the game.

DE could take a leaf out of Arenanet's book, as to how they handle the difficulty scaling of new content (either scaling the content down to the player, or the player up to the content), but for now I'm perfectly happy knowing that they aren't making stuff like this only accessible to veterans with meta-cheese level gear.

Not saying casual's should be locked out of Umbra content (noobs should though) I'm saying if you are gonna make the Umbra version of the warframe better than the prime version (which it indisputably is) then there should be a higher skill ceiling than there is to get a Prime frame and of course the quest wasn't easy for everyone because a lot of the people doing it either had no idea what they were doing and the ins and outs of fighting sentient enemies or they hopped right into it with their regular gear not having much experience modding but the quest itself was not hard enough to justify giving out a superior warframe that is way better than its prime counterpart.

[polarity]

Last I checked there was no skill ceiling to a prime frame, just a plat cost.

[xXRAZIEL855Xx]

4 minutes ago, polarity said:

Last I checked there was no skill ceiling to a prime frame, just a plat cost.

To earn a Prime frame is a luck ceiling and depending on the mission is a skill ceiling but you unintentionally proved my point with that post the fact that you associated Prime with plat cost is my exact fear. I don't want Umbra to be the next Prime I don't want to think oh cool I should buy an Umbra when i see them i want to think wow that guy must be really good at the game he's got the Umbra variant.

[NightmareT12]

You realize the reason this stuff was so easy this one time was because we've waited 3 years for this and it was their way of apologizing, right?

[xXRAZIEL855Xx]

3 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

You realize the reason this stuff was so easy this one time was because we've waited 3 years for this and it was their way of apologizing, right?

Even if it is I hope its the ONLY one that was this easy.

[taiiat]

if you want the Prime Prime set of Warframes(there was nothing else this was ever going to be, don't kid yourself) to be determined by Player Skill and knowledge - first you'd have to create something in the game that rewards Player Skill.
knowledge is rewarded all the time i guess, via knowing what's useless and won't get fixed or improved, what uses one off custom math that breaks the game or not, what Bugs there are in favor and not in favor of the Player, Et Cetera.

but rewarding Player Skill - there has never been a single thing in the game that rewards Player Skill (except Conclave and sorta Lunaro). infact the game regularly punishes Skill, instead rewarding AFK'ing.
so you'd have to create such things first, so that you could determine things by Player Skill.

[Maka.Bones]

The sentients were easier to deal with, than umbra. Umbra needs some pretty time intensive investments... and your operator needs some work... i wouldn't say that it's given away

[xXRAZIEL855Xx]

5 minutes ago, taiiat said:

if you want the Prime Prime set of Warframes(there was nothing else this was ever going to be, don't kid yourself) to be determined by Player Skill and knowledge - first you'd have to create something in the game that rewards Player Skill.
knowledge is rewarded all the time i guess, via knowing what's useless and won't get fixed or improved, what uses one off custom math that breaks the game or not, what Bugs there are in favor and not in favor of the Player, Et Cetera.

but rewarding Player Skill - there has never been a single thing in the game that rewards Player Skill (except Conclave and sorta Lunaro). infact the game regularly punishes Skill, instead rewarding AFK'ing.
so you'd have to create such things first, so that you could determine things by Player Skill.

Im half and half on agreeing with this while there are some things in warframe that are not skill based and more knowledge based such as every sentient in the game. That doesn't mean there are no skill based decisions in combat or gameplay as a whole for instance Riven Mods yes there are a lot you can cheese but there are some you need true skill for i.e. get 17 headshots in a row undetected without using abilities or taking damage. Even stealth in general in the game without cheesing with any frame that can go invisible is skill based.

[xXRAZIEL855Xx]

Just now, Maka.Bones said:

The sentients were easier to deal with, than umbra. Umbra needs some pretty time intensive investments... and your operator needs some work... i wouldn't say that it's given away

Umbra was pretty easy to deal with once you noticed you can just void dash away from him i think he only caught me in the air a few times while i was zephyr the easiest part was the end when his shields didn't even reset as you shot him you could literally just die over and over until his shields were gone.

[Godin_The_Killer]

AS far as we know, Excal Umbra is supposed to have a "unique" acquisition style vs. every other Umbra. Given what we know how Umbras are made, I'm pretty sure we'll be making the rest, but it's going to be interesting to say the least on building them

First we need a Dax soldier (probably), or at least the body of one and some kuva, and the BP. Given Issah is still kicking it seems, I'm assuming that he has something to do with it.

[Maka.Bones]

2 minutes ago, xXRAZIEL855Xx said:

Umbra was pretty easy to deal with once you noticed you can just void dash away from him i think he only caught me in the air a few times while i was zephyr the easiest part was the end when his shields didn't even reset as you shot him you could literally just die over and over until his shields were gone.

The death thing is kinda lame. Umbra wasnt specifically hard, but its not eay either if you need to constantly dodge/die. You simply beat it by attrition, not skill.  

[xXRAZIEL855Xx]

Just now, Maka.Bones said:

The death thing is kinda lame. Umbra wasnt specifically hard, but its not eay either if you need to constantly dodge/die. You simply beat it by attrition, not skill.  

which is my exact problem there was NO skill involved I think if you are going to release a warframe that is better than a prime variant there should be SOME skill involved

[Mattoropael]

4 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

The death thing is kinda lame. Umbra wasnt specifically hard, but its not eay either if you need to constantly dodge/die. You simply beat it by attrition, not skill.  

So you'd rather make it a glorified Focus/Amp/Magus Arcane gear check?

Because that's what it will be if you add real consequence to the kiddo deaths while fighting a Warframe that can damage you through void mode.

[polarity]

Nothing in this game rewards skill.  Even WoW is more demanding of its players, and a level 20 dungeon in that game is more challenging than the hardest bosses in this one.

All warframe does have is gearchecks.

Edited June 16, 2018 by polarity

[Threa]

I disagree, not everything needs to require skill to obtain. I don't want to be too cynical but I sense that you want it to require "skill" because you don't want everyone to have an Umbra, and it's this elitist mentality that Warframe has never condoned and I hope it never does. Most things in the game require time and/or plat and that is one of my favorite things about this game and what sets it apart from others.

The beautiful thing about Umbra is that is a gift to every single player from the devs and I hope every single Umbra is treated as a gift as well. It's DE's way of saying thank you for supporting and playing their game. I love it! 

[xXRAZIEL855Xx]

10 minutes ago, Mattoropael said:

So you'd rather make it a glorified Focus/Amp/Magus Arcane gear check?

Because that's what it will be if you add real consequence to the kiddo deaths while fighting a Warframe that can damage you through void mode.

 

4 minutes ago, polarity said:

Nothing in this game rewards skill.  Even WoW is more demanding of its players, and a level 20 dungeon in that game is more challenging than the hardest bosses in this one.

All warframe does have is gearchecks.

That is one of the problems you guys automatically assume challenging to warframe means gear check and they could never change look at the war within or the Kuva Guardian enemy type in general before you can even damage them you need to hit them with a void blast from your tenno. Challenging can mean a variety of things and DE can implement them Tenno deaths have no consequence and I personally think they should. Warframes strenght and weakness should be the Tenno.