konaka123 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 14 hours ago, xXRAZIEL855Xx said: I'm an active Warframe player in-game on PS4 and PC and I have never made a post until today because I'm worried that Umbra will just become the next Prime. I'm all for the Umbra frames but what i'm not for is just giving them away like at the end of The Sacrifice. Personally in my opinion (notice i said in my opinion I don't speak for the community) I don't want Umbra to be easily acquired through just grinding or trading with other players. I would like to see Umbra implemented as a way of saying "I have the skill to earn this Umbra frame" currently when I see any prime frame "I think oh that's cool I should buy it next time I have some plat" tl;dr Acquiring an Umbral frame should be challenging but rewarding not trade-able, not buy-able, impossible to taxi the challenge, and most importantly not based on RNG like the other frame. You can monetize it buy selling accessory packs based on the frames just like you did with Excal Umbra you know how this community likes their fashion. I believe that being able to finish EVERY single quest up to the sacrifice qualifies you to be skillfull and knowledgable enough to get a side-grade to excalibur. I don't think Umbra frames should be some kind of reward in order to boast to other people that you are an "elite" at this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXRAZIEL855Xx Posted June 16, 2018 Author Share Posted June 16, 2018 16 minutes ago, konaka123 said: I believe that being able to finish EVERY single quest up to the sacrifice qualifies you to be skillfull and knowledgable enough to get a side-grade to excalibur. I don't think Umbra frames should be some kind of reward in order to boast to other people that you are an "elite" at this game. Again no one is saying that i only want "elite" players to have access to umbra material i'm saying don't make it easier than getting a prime if every quest awards an Umbra and that quest is always easier than grinding for Prime parts there will be NO point in getting Prime Warframes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyohakusha Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 14 hours ago, xXRAZIEL855Xx said: Acquiring an Umbral frame should be challenging but rewarding not trade-able, not buy-able, impossible to taxi the challenge, and most importantly not based on RNG like the other frame. You can monetize it buy selling accessory packs based on the frames just like you did with Excal Umbra you know how this community likes their fashion. - You have to complete every mainline quest and clear the starchart to access the Sacrifice - You can't buy him - You can't be taxi'ed to him - The quest is one hundred percent solo - No RNG was involved What are you complaining about? Nothing? Okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXRAZIEL855Xx Posted June 16, 2018 Author Share Posted June 16, 2018 1 minute ago, Hyohakusha said: - You have to complete every mainline quest and clear the starchart to access the Sacrifice - You can't buy him - You can't be taxi'ed to him - The quest is one hundred percent solo - No RNG was involved What are you complaining about? Nothing? Okay. -You can be taxi's through the entire star chart -Not yet at least and there is no point since they give him away -There is no need to be taxi'd to him if you were taxi'd by the star chart and carried through the quests -but its dirt easy -One of the good things about it If you are gonna be a pompous A****** please do it somewhere else this is a post of constructive criticism and so far everyone even if their opinions differed have been civil and conduct. Just because someone has a different opinion than you doesn't give you the right to be a passive aggressive #$&(% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesiga Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Pretty sure Excal Umbra is just given to us because of how the quest plays out + it'd be given to everyone as a STARTER frame for the TAU system. Giving everyone a way to fight the sentients with maximum efficiency since the TAU system will be ALL sentients in their base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXRAZIEL855Xx Posted June 16, 2018 Author Share Posted June 16, 2018 Just now, Vesiga said: Pretty sure Excal Umbra is just given to us because of how the quest plays out + it'd be given to everyone as a STARTER frame for the TAU system. Giving everyone a way to fight the sentients with maximum efficiency since the TAU system will be ALL sentients in their base. Which im perfectly fine with the title of the post says the NEXT Umbra frame the point i was trying to make was to not make all of them as easy as it was for Excalibur Umbra because it would make regular primes not even worth the grind anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orblit Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 This is warframe, there's no skill available here. How you gonna ask for rewards for said lack-of-skill, to be Umbra frames? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovusNova Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 We have no evidence that DE are making Umbra into a series. Excalibur Umbra is the only one shown so far since 2015 when people first found out about him. DE has already said in the past that if they decide to make more Umbra's, that they would be part of a limited series and we wouldn't have an Umbra for every Warframe. "I don't want Umbra to be easily acquired through just grinding or trading with other players." - You can't get Umbra via normal grinding or via trading, only by completing the quest yourself. Grinding better amps may make it easier but it is not required. I don't see why having other Umbra's (if we get them) as rewards for quests is an issue? All the next quests will require you to have completed all the quests in the game which shows you are invested in the game and have spent time in the game. I would leave them as unranked if more can be obtained in the future, I thought Excal Umbra was given max rank because people had waited 3 years for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaotyke Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 ExcUmbra had to be given to the players. Their accord to Chinaframe is that they couldnt sell it or make it a drop item. Then they just gave it to you. This is like picking your very first frame and weapons: its a freebee. They are now free to make us work ourselves to the bone to get the next Umbras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXRAZIEL855Xx Posted June 16, 2018 Author Share Posted June 16, 2018 1 minute ago, Orblit said: This is warframe, there's no skill available here. How you gonna ask for rewards for said lack-of-skill, to be Umbra frames? This question was asked to me many times and i'll give you the answer i give to most of them. While I am aware that Warframe has periods where no skill is involved there are places where skill IS involved the most recent example being combating Umbra in The Sacrifice if they didn't allow progress save on death that would have been more challenging and took skill and critical thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXRAZIEL855Xx Posted June 16, 2018 Author Share Posted June 16, 2018 4 minutes ago, NovusNova said: We have no evidence that DE are making Umbra into a series. Excalibur Umbra is the only one shown so far since 2015 when people first found out about him. DE has already said in the past that if they decide to make more Umbra's, that they would be part of a limited series and we wouldn't have an Umbra for every Warframe. "I don't want Umbra to be easily acquired through just grinding or trading with other players." - You can't get Umbra via normal grinding or via trading, only by completing the quest yourself. Grinding better amps may make it easier but it is not required. I don't see why having other Umbra's (if we get them) as rewards for quests is an issue? All the next quests will require you to have completed all the quests in the game which shows you are invested in the game and have spent time in the game. I would leave them as unranked if more can be obtained in the future, I thought Excal Umbra was given max rank because people had waited 3 years for him. As i've said before my problem isn't with quests giving Umbra frames its that in my opinion if all quests are similar to that of The Sacrifice and IF they make Umbra a new series following in the steps of Excalibur Umbra where it's got better stats than the Prime version then there would be no point in going for Primes. Therefore by basic game design in order to obtain something stronger it must be harder than the previous series or it will make the previous series worthless. So in other words if they make Umbra a new series with better stats than Prime and just as easy to acquire as Excalibur Umbra there would be no reason to even try to get the Prime series besides the fact that there is no Umbra series out for that Warframe yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenariousNex Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 14 hours ago, Volinus7 said: Is 2000 days login milestone challenging? 14 hours ago, xXRAZIEL855Xx said: I mean I was thinking more of a mission itself that's harder than the final stages of the sortie. I see, so what you are saying is you want it to drop is a sortie in 2000 parts one each day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Wonderful Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 The challenge was to do all the quest leading up to that point, hopefully next time they add a requirement with the other frames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXRAZIEL855Xx Posted June 16, 2018 Author Share Posted June 16, 2018 Just now, SenariousNex said: I see, so what you are saying is you want it to drop is a sortie in 2000 parts one each day? Oh god don't even plant that terrible seed in my head you'll give me nightmares lol nothing THAT extrememe personally i wouldn't mind acquiring Umbra the same way you did it in the quest except Tenno death means restart at checkpoint instead of respawning with the same progress sort of like how the junctions are but with a different environment only your Tenno and the Umbra frame in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXRAZIEL855Xx Posted June 16, 2018 Author Share Posted June 16, 2018 Just now, Dr_Wonderful said: The challenge was to do all the quest leading up to that point, hopefully next time they add a requirement with the other frames Which is why i said the next frame i have no problem with them making Excalibur Umbra this easy my problem would be if ALL Umbra series frames are this easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LupisV0lk Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 (edited) 13 hours ago, Maka.Bones said: The sentients were easier to deal with, than umbra. Umbra needs some pretty time intensive investments... and your operator needs some work... i wouldn't say that it's given away This, if you haven't invested in operator focus nodes (like me i've been focusing on the dash that gives you energy) and operator arcanes and amps your in for a bad time. So i think it's fair. Edited June 16, 2018 by LupisV0lk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NodDragon Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 So what about defining what you mean with the word "skill". Is the ability to press keys on a keyboard a skill? Is spending time on a game being a skill? This word is used a lot, but never defined and thus this entire discussion so far have been pointless, that is when is something skillfull? Also I don´t belive that computer games require any form for skills, why? Simple. 1) People alway have the possiblity to try again. 2) The interaction is to limited, e.g. it is solely observation and reaction (which lies in our basic, survival, nature) for example in the "Soul" games, the way most bosses are beaten are people throwing themselves at them, and maybe observing and reacting at times. 3) No form for punishment outside of the wasted time. 4) It does not follow the normal 10.000 hour requirement to be skillfull in something. And so on. Also spending time is not a skill or lack of skill. Also, how does the Umbra have better stats than the prime version? Last time I checked they had the same stats. The only "hard" primes to get are those vaulted. All unvaulted primes just require time, nothing else, nothing hard about that at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXRAZIEL855Xx Posted June 16, 2018 Author Share Posted June 16, 2018 1 minute ago, LupisV0lk said: This, if you haven't invested in operator focus nodes (like me i've been focusing on the dash that gives you energy) and operator arcanes and amps your in for a bad time. So i think it's fair. Personally I use the Madurai tree and only have Phoenix Talons upgraded once with a level 30 mote amp and still beat him its all about learning when to void dash away. Even the sentients were pretty easy if you took a vectis modded for crit damage and you know the knowledge of resetting their resistances but as i've also said in the OP this is just my opinion and i don't speak for the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)PaceBrkr Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Well Excal is a gimme... It's highly likely that DE is gonna make us work for them. How is another question. I wouldn't mind having to go on a journey to acquire future Umbras. Given what we've seen in The Sacrifice, Hunhow might have the data for blueprints for others. Perhaps we can scour the Tau system for the data. I kinda would like for some Sentient guardian to play a role or some sort of challenge related to the theme of the frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)vl_Monarch_lv Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 15 hours ago, Croix_Bartel said: You earned it by being skilled enough to beat The Sacrifice. Pfft... Sorry, just, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banelingline Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Okay, let's go over why we should have further Umbras be challenging to get: They have Prime-level stats and different abilities They come with mods that get out of hand fairly quickly They're non-standard 'Frames of actual significance I, personally, think they shouldn't be behind the typical grind. At most, they could require materials to construct parts to repair/rebuild them (interesting note: Our Umbra is a copy that somehow has the memory of the original. The original got exploded by Natah), but those materials are best things that are more proof of seniority than anything else. Stuff like the PoE materials that require a notable grind to be able to access. Construction times should be brief, ideally structured so that you'll have them build while you do the next part of the quest to have it so you can play through the quest in one go. The skill gate needs to be something that can be reasonably expected of players that make significant use of the 'Frame you're getting an Umbra of, such as timing shots/jumps for Octavia or controlling the consistency of damage taken for Oberon/Nidus. Furthermore, gating them behind having particular mechanical capabilities, such as needing ranks in the Vazarin/Zenurik Waybounds to pull off a chain of Void Dashes or needing to have a particular type of Zephyr build requiring a difficult-to-get mod to use Tailwind to cover the same mobility challenge, ensures that only people with a certain amount of progression can actually complete the Quest. Mechanically, to incentivize everyone to grab every Umbra, each Umbra should come with a new non-'frame item, whether a weapon of literally any type, a companion, an Archwing or whatever else might be construed to fit the 'Frame that has mod use, and Umbra mods to go with that item, including overlapping items adding to Umbra sets, one mod at a time. This means that some Umbras should also include a new Umbral mod, which should restrict the set bonus to three or four to avert stat inflation (the code for confining set bonuses could also allow for the PoE sets to have more mods added without causing power issues). This is in the interest of opening up what you can do with the Umbras over time by crossing mods from them, so that Umbracalibur can use more of the standard Excalibur builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuroraSonicBoom Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 I want challenge in warframe as well, but not if it means locking gameplay changing items behind it. The only thing skill - as nebulous of a term that is in a PvE looter shooter that abandoned any semblance of stealth - should ever grant you is efficiency. More rewards for less time spent playing. That's why I'm glad DE moved arcanes to Eidolons. They can be soloed with just a little bit of effort, and don't provide groups with exclusive rewards - just more convenience. If we're talking about non-gameplay changing rewards, i.e. cosmetics, I'm all for that. You go ahead and waste an hour cheesing the index for a poster, that's just fine with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMuslimGamerGB Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 I saw us getting Umbra immediately as DE's way of saying thank you Tenno for waiting three years for this. The next Umbra if there is such a thing won't be acquired so easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodwill Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 All Umbras should be unlocked by a game of Komi using the world's best Chess AI. Will take both skill and wits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXRAZIEL855Xx Posted June 16, 2018 Author Share Posted June 16, 2018 1 minute ago, Goodwill said: All Umbras should be unlocked by a game of Komi using the world's best Chess AI. Will take both skill and wits. that'd be pretty fun not gonna lie lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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