Could you NOT give out the next Umbra frame so easily?

[blasron]

i did found the quest easy BUT i have more than 2000 hour under my belt, a S#&$ tonne of forma an potato on my main frame and guns, also have the best possibility of an amp and a fully arcanic operator with most of the school passive on. Therefore i did understand that it made the quest easy.

 

For giving the frame out that easily... I LOVE THAT but giving him out at 30 that i am not ok with it same for the weapon. They could also make 2 intermission before facing blue fker to test the new frame, you know has a test run who buy a car of a gun without testing it in an control environment.

[Riger82]

I don't mind how simple it was to get the umbra. Getting a warframe from just doing a quest isn't exactly new. Inaros, mirage, limbo... All frames that literally get given to you for doing a quest. Though they took longer due to having to craft each part. I want more 10 second warframe crafts, lol.

[Guest]

TBH they should give away the remaining Umbras in quests like this one rather than make us farm some terrible game mode.

Sure, they can make harder quests, but confirmed rewards are nice.

Edited June 16, 2018 by Guest

[xXRAZIEL855Xx]

2 hours ago, Datam4ss said:

How is Excal Umbra better than his Prime?

Excal Umbra is quite stupid when you are not controlling him and he can die, kicking you back into the frame.

Meanwhile Excal/Excal Prime/Whatever non Umbra Excal you are using stays quiet, out of the way and doesn't die because it is invincible.

Also, the annoying Umbra Polarities in his sword and the Excal himself.

Umbras are pretty much going to be Sidegrades with the same stats as the Prime, most likely, except with one power able to annoy Sentients, no invincibility when you leave them and umbra polarities.

My guy im not sure what you are talking about from the stat boost alone Umbra>Prime not to mention the Umbra exclusive mods he comes with

[xXRAZIEL855Xx]

2 hours ago, Datam4ss said:

TBH they should give away the remaining Umbras in quests like this one rather than make us farm some terrible game mode.

Sure, they can make harder quests, but confirmed rewards are nice.

Thats also quite literally one of the points i made in the post except i don't want them to ALL be quests i belive we should build umbra the same way we did in the campaign find an area on the normal frames respective planet then look for umbra parts rebuild and tame.

[Guest]

Just now, xXRAZIEL855Xx said:

My guy im not sure what you are talking about from the stat boost alone Umbra>Prime not to mention the Umbra exclusive mods he comes with

Ask any founder how much energy and armor their Excal Prime has. Just do it.

The Exclusive mods are annoyingly terrible on Excalibur. Armor and Health on a frame that does not even need it. If you said "Umbra Oberon" or "Umbra Valkyr", sure, be my guest to talk about the Exclusive mods (which are perfect for those two). But right now they take up two spaces that could be used on better mods and their ONLY purpose is to boost Umbral Intensify. It's not even funny.

[Kurambik]

Better yet, can we just not get more Umbra frames entirely? I absolutely HATE having to re-forma especially when it comes to warframes. I'd rather have a way of obtaining "Vitruvian Forma" (I don't care if it's the same rarity as a legendary core) to strengthen my already built primes.

[--END--Rikutatis]

LOL devs can't really win. Ppl complain if acquiring the frame is too grindy (khora) and complain if it's too easy (umbra).

[xXRAZIEL855Xx]

15 minutes ago, --END--Rikutatis said:

LOL devs can't really win. Ppl complain if acquiring the frame is too grindy (khora) and complain if it's too easy (umbra).

Duh and no one is complaining that it isn't grindy and im also guessing you only read the tl;dr and what the actual post said is that it was just given to us even though its indisputably better than the prime version and that's not good for game health overall. Also if you would look back at the long version of the post i specifically state that I don't want Umbra's difficulty to be obtaining it through RNG.

[xXRAZIEL855Xx]

35 minutes ago, Kurambik said:

Better yet, can we just not get more Umbra frames entirely? I absolutely HATE having to re-forma especially when it comes to warframes. I'd rather have a way of obtaining "Vitruvian Forma" (I don't care if it's the same rarity as a legendary core) to strengthen my already built primes.

Same if they are not gonna be implemented right i'd rather just have none at all. If they keep implementing them the same way Excal Umbra was implemented and they make it just as easy to acquire there will be no more reason to even go for the prime variant.

[Perisie]

3 minutes ago, xXRAZIEL855Xx said:

Same if they are not gonna be implemented right i'd rather just have none at all. If they keep implementing them the same way Excal Umbra was implemented and they make it just as easy to acquire there will be no more reason to even go for the prime variant.

That's honestly why I was hoping that Umbras would be a sidegrade rather than a direct upgrade. You have Umbra for X situation, and Prime for Y situation. That seems like a better way of handling it to me, rather than making Primes pointless (once their frame gets an Umbra variant, of course.)

[--END--Rikutatis]

9 minutes ago, xXRAZIEL855Xx said:

Duh and no one is complaining that it isn't grindy and im also guessing you only read the tl;dr and what the actual post said is that it was just given to us even though its indisputably better than the prime version and that's not good for game health overall. Also if you would look back at the long version of the post i specifically state that I don't want Umbra's difficulty to be obtaining it through RNG.

It's not indisputably better than the Prime version. Only if you're trying to build both the same way. Umbra is clearly superior if you're trying to build him in a high survivability way (health, armor, etc). But if you want another kind of build, like a squad oriented radial blind build that relies on your team for protection, you won't be able to do that easily with umbra and prime/regular variants will be your go to. 

[Oreades]

Careful there your elitism is showing. 

Umbra was critical to the story quest, of course it's going to be relatively easy to get. 

DE wants people to enjoy the story and not people being irritated that their story progression is being blocked by some arbitrary mechanic/unreasonable cost. 

If it makes you feel any better non story critical Umbras will most likely have at the very least more cost/grind to attain.

[xXRAZIEL855Xx]

12 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Careful there your elitism is showing. 

Umbra was critical to the story quest, of course it's going to be relatively easy to get. 

DE wants people to enjoy the story and not people being irritated that their story progression is being blocked by some arbitrary mechanic/unreasonable cost. 

If it makes you feel any better non story critical Umbras will most likely have at the very least more cost/grind to attain.

Again you can all call what im saying elitism if you want to but it isn't its basic game design if Variant A is better than Variant B then Variant A naturally should be harder to get. Primes are harder to get than the regular version because Primes are better. Umbra is (so far) better than prime therefore it should be harder to acquire if its still as easy to require there is no point in going from regular to prime instead of just regular to umbra. Also im only MR9 on PC calling me an elitist is like calling a human humanist for pointing out flaws that humans have.

[Oreades]

1 minute ago, xXRAZIEL855Xx said:

Again you can all call what im saying elitism if you want to but it isn't its basic game design if Variant A is better than Variant B then Variant A naturally should be harder to get. Primes are harder to get than the regular version because Primes are better. Umbra is (so far) better than prime therefore it should be harder to acquire if its still as easy to require there is no point in going from regular to prime instead of just regular to umbra. Also im only MR9 on PC calling me an elitist is like calling a human humanist for pointing out flaws that humans have.

But it isn't a flaw.... 

Increasing the requirements for Umbra to say 10k Kuva or needing to grind RNG blueprint drops along with waiting out about 30hrs worth of timers, doesn't do anything for the Sacrifice quest.

They wanted the player to experience Umbra during the quest and you don't do that by tossing up a bunch of unnecessary walls that don't do anything but timegate progression. Would the Umbra quest have been better if it had a bunch of pointless timegates that dragged it out for a few weeks?

And it's pretty obvious that they aren't going to handle all Umbras the same way. It's essentially a given that the rest of the Umbras will conform to the standard acquisition and time gating that essentially everything else in the whole game conforms to. 

 

As to the MR whoozle, MR doesn't mean anything one way or the other, so not really sure why being lower MR would expunge or confirm anything.

[xXRAZIEL855Xx]

1 minute ago, Oreades said:

But it isn't a flaw.... 

Increasing the requirements for Umbra to say 10k Kuva or needing to grind RNG blueprint drops along with waiting out about 30hrs worth of timers, doesn't do anything for the Sacrifice quest.

They wanted the player to experience Umbra during the quest and you don't do that by tossing up a bunch of unnecessary walls that don't do anything but timegate progression. Would the Umbra quest have been better if it had a bunch of pointless timegates that dragged it out for a few weeks?

And it's pretty obvious that they aren't going to handle all Umbras the same way. It's essentially a given that the rest of the Umbras will conform to the standard acquisition and time gating that essentially everything else in the whole game conforms to. 

 

As to the MR whoozle, MR doesn't mean anything one way or the other, so not really sure why being lower MR would expunge or confirm anything.

The reason it does expunge that is because your claiming in an "elitist" when I'm clearly all for locking me out of Umbra content until certain objectives are met. Saying that making a challenge to acquire something that is worth that challenge is an elitist mindset is redundant especially when again that's part of basic game design and would be overall better for the game

If you would have read my previous posts you would know that I already said I believe that DE is competent enough to NOT do that and this post is mainly made to explain to the majority of the playerbase who think anything that's too challenging for them is for "elites" that giving out Umbras as easily as this is a horrible idea and shouldn't be done again because it will (if following the same pattern) will make Prime more worthless than it already is. 

[Sloan441]

I'm kinda hoping we don't see any more of them. 

One singular Umbra warframe to move the narrative forward is fine with me. I'd just as soon leave it at that and move on with other things. 

If sentient mods are going to be a thing, then simply implement a mechanism so we can modify existing 'frames. Sure, it's Umbra tech, but re-purposing it makes more sense than simply a whole new class of 'frames no one knew about springing out of thin air. 

Considering our present narrative and what the tenno are and are becoming, I'm not sure we (they) want any part of the process we saw Ballas implement to construct an Umbra warframe. 

[xXRAZIEL855Xx]

2 minutes ago, Sloan441 said:

I'm kinda hoping we don't see any more of them. 

One singular Umbra warframe to move the narrative forward is fine with me. I'd just as soon leave it at that and move on with other things. 

If sentient mods are going to be a thing, then simply implement a mechanism so we can modify existing 'frames. Sure, it's Umbra tech, but re-purposing it makes more sense than simply a whole new class of 'frames no one knew about springing out of thin air. 

Considering our present narrative and what the tenno are and are becoming, I'm not sure we (they) want any part of the process we saw Ballas implement to construct an Umbra warframe. 

As I've again said in a previous post im pretty sure you saw I'd rather not have anymore than have then implemented wrong 

[Sloan441]

4 minutes ago, xXRAZIEL855Xx said:

As I've again said in a previous post im pretty sure you saw I'd rather not have anymore than have then implemented wrong 

Well, I can see how it might be implemented with what we now know and the existing warframes. I think that would be preferable to just another class of warframes cluttering up the armory--which essentially are no different from what we have aside from a new polarity. 

I'm struggling more with the narrative and where this belongs. Umbra only existed because Ballas was a vindictive bastard that transformed a Dax that knew a little too much as a revenge trip. Then he (Ballas) blew town and let events take their course. We intervened when Ballas decided it was time to put his oar back in and we (the tenno) became aware of yet another rogue warframe running about and had an opportunity to do something about it. That resulted in this singular warframe being brought into our armory and it has some unique aspects because of how it was created--and we had a hand in it in the end, which derailed whatever plans Ballas might have had.

This is a view of what we've been presented. There are still some vague areas. Was Umbra just a revenge trip for Ballas? Or did he have some other plans for it and more like it? We now know of it, but it's not quite what Ballas intended at this point. The question is where it goes from here. Personally, I think it make more sense that we--who did change the Umbra--would modify our existing warframes--and maybe find out more about what make them tick, rather than just have new warframes. 

[ikkabotz]

20 hours ago, xXRAZIEL855Xx said:

I'm an active Warframe player in-game on PS4 and PC and I have never made a post until today because I'm worried that Umbra will just become the next Prime. I'm all for the Umbra frames but what i'm not for is just giving them away like at the end of The Sacrifice. Personally in my opinion (notice i said in my opinion I don't speak for the community) I don't want Umbra to be easily acquired through just grinding or trading with other players. I would like to see Umbra implemented as a way of saying "I have the skill to earn this Umbra frame" currently when I see any prime frame "I think oh that's cool I should buy it next time I have some plat"

tl;dr

Acquiring an Umbral frame should be challenging but rewarding not trade-able, not buy-able, impossible to taxi the challenge, and most importantly not based on RNG like the other frame. You can monetize it buy selling accessory packs based on the frames just like you did with Excal Umbra you know how this community likes their fashion.

Why do you care so much about what other people have? It'd been one thing to say you wanted it to be more challengeing to earn for your entertainment, it's another to be worked up about everyone else. Makes you look kind of like a jerk.

I get what you mean, there are a ton of people running around with Umbra and it'd be cool as if he were a rare flower, but why do that to the community with Umbra? My first choice would be similar to your own, but in the end I think they handled Umbra beautifully to the players. I think Umbra should be accessible to the majority of players who put the time into the story arch.

Don't be such a snob.

Edited June 17, 2018 by komoriblues

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, komoriblues said:

I get what you mean, there are a ton of people running around with Umbra and it'd be cool as if he were a rare flower, but why do that to the community with Umbra?

Don't worry, soon enough he will be a rare flower. Like how you don't see Excals everywhere when you play the game.

[xXRAZIEL855Xx]

7 minutes ago, komoriblues said:

Why do you care so much about what other people have? Not happy their E peen is "easily" as big as yours? It'd been one thing to say you wanted it to be more challengeing to earn for your entertainment, it's another to be worked up about "everyone else". Makes you look kind of like a jerk.

I get what you mean, there are a ton of people running around with Umbra and it'd be cool as if he were a rare flower, but why do that to people? My first choice would be similar to your own, but in the end I think they handled Umbra beautifully to the players.

Don't be such a snob.

My problem isn't the fact that EVERYONE has Excalibur Umbra which is literally why I said in the title the NEXT Umbra warframe. Simply put and this is fact my concern is that IF they are as easy to acquire and that's IF it'll make Prime not even worth getting if they continue the pattern of better stats for the Umbras compared to primes. 

Edited June 16, 2018 by xXRAZIEL855Xx

[Drasiel]

You sir are looking this gift horse way too closely in the mouth. Seriously do it's tonsils look okay? The whole point of the quest is umbra if other umbra frames come and take the same storytelling behavior it's going to be very difficult to seperate them into a solo oriented grind. Now if you had some suggestions for how that could be accomplished I'd be curious. 

[xXRAZIEL855Xx]

17 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

You sir are looking this gift horse way too closely in the mouth. Seriously do it's tonsils look okay? The whole point of the quest is umbra if other umbra frames come and take the same storytelling behavior it's going to be very difficult to seperate them into a solo oriented grind. Now if you had some suggestions for how that could be accomplished I'd be curious. 

Well the way I would suggest doing it is similar to the way they did it in the quest line find hints of the Umbra on its respective planet correlated to the warframe drop the boss on that planet gives once you find and scan 4 Umbra parts you get the option to build the Umbra once you build the Umbra you fight and tame it. Obviously fighting the Umbra is with your tenno only and death means starting over with the fight the same way you do in the junctions. Upon defeating the Umbra you connect and "tame" it. In this way it will make Umbra non-tradable since you aren't building individual parts but the Umbra itself. Facing the Umbra will obviously be done solo only. If it's implemented in this way it will give everyone an equal chance of getting the frame while also being a test of skill to tame it.

Edited June 16, 2018 by xXRAZIEL855Xx
Spelling mistakes doing this on mobile currently :/

[taiiat]

12 hours ago, xXRAZIEL855Xx said:

there are some you need true skill for i.e. get 17 headshots in a row undetected without using abilities or taking damage.

Even stealth in general in the game without cheesing with any frame that can go invisible is skill based.

the Grineer Camps in Eidolon makes something like that pretty easy.

yes but you omitted an important point - that the game doesn't reward you for anything that tests Skill, instead punishes. doing Stealth barebones does require some competency, but it's objectively less efficient than doing Stealth while Invisible. sooooo you're rewarded for doing the easy thing, not the hard thing.

11 hours ago, xXRAZIEL855Xx said:

That is one of the problems you guys automatically assume challenging to warframe means gear check and they could never change look at the war within or the Kuva Guardian enemy type in general before you can even damage them you need to hit them with a void blast from your tenno.

Kuva Guardians are a Skill based Challenge? what?
it's an Enemy that you just need to press 3 extra buttons before you can Kill. there's no Skill involved there.

 

 

 

i want the game to encourage and reward Skill, sure - it just doesn't and if you try to apply your Skills to Gameplay you will receive nothing for it. "just grind some Stats to AFK through the Mission" is what the game has to say.