Missions of Judgment

[Vandalow.]

This is more for an outburst, come on.

I like the way DE is committed to its players, but I was disappointed when we were taken out of those veteran missions such as trial missions. Explicitly I see that some of the older players, who are currently ranked 23 and 24, stopped playing because they did not have challenging content, where Judgment missions (LoR and Jordas) fit. It's a good thing that we have devastating content today, like the plains, but all players have access to the content, (I'm not complaining, just mentioning something that has already been commented on by other players). The game today it prizes a lot in keeping the new players interested in staying in the game, but the difficult content that motivated us simply ended. Today it is very easy for a novice player to kill an Eidolon, I say this because it is just to enter someone with the ability to take his shield and kill that there is, the beginning player hitchhiker. And not long ago things were different, everything was simply synchronized with the players and the content was done with a lot of effort and euphoria. I particularly miss the trial missions and am leaving my feedback here. I look forward to the return of this content. See you, Tenno!

[(PSN)l-p4p-I]

Like u, i really hope Trials get back soon. I dont feel theres a true challenging content in the game.

[Vandalow.]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)p4p1Ch4lon said:

Like u, i really hope Trials get back soon. I dont feel theres a true challenging content in the game. 

Things were easier to get, such as the arcane that were part of the endgame content. I'm sorry about that, I'd like to open the game and be sure they'd be there to get it done again.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

Endgame content can be completed by anyone with enough time invested, regardless whether they are in a group of solo? GOOD. Not allowing for that was exactly what made trials bs. Throwing 30+ one or two-shotting enemies on screen and forcing players to play in a group is holy shyt levels of bad game design for a game like Warframe. Eidolons can be soloed, have elaborate attack tells and do not require every player in a squad to bring their cheesiest setups to succeed.

I'm very glad trials are gone and hope they never return in the same way. Trials were game design cancer, and Eidolons were the chemo warframe needed to destroy it.

[Firetempest]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)p4p1Ch4lon said:

Like u, i really hope Trials get back soon. I dont feel theres a true challenging content in the game.

It's a power fantasy game, none of the pve content is challenging. Fake difficulty bs maybe, but not challenging. People were speedrunning LoR sub 12min. It was just a credit and plat farm. 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Hear Hear!

Absolutely agree with you OP. As much fun as it isn't to go and do a 2 hour survival etc I'd much rather play a mission that requires teamwork to overcome puzzles while facing high level opposition. I miss Raids, I miss having 8 clan players on discord planning on the next silly way we can complete the mission. Such highlights included doing LOR with 8 Atlas's or 8 Ash's etc, seeing exactly how many bastilles we could spam until one of our computer's crashed and whatever else we felt would be a challenge or entertaining and most importantly, FUN.

Bring back Raids DE, the Eidolons were a decent start but we need more to sink our teeth into. Though I don't miss the 24 hour wait to do them again. Give us Raids, give us events with leaderboards worth theory crafting for 2 days over before embarking on a 5 hour endurance effort to post a top score. Give us a reason for all our min-maxing that isn't simply going further in a survival, ever since you removed the ability to use 1 void key to drop a prime part every 5 waves for say 80 waves of defense or 4 hours of suvival, or 50 rounds of interception, you've removed our incentive to push harder. I can get the same amount of prime part rewards doing 5 waves now sadly. Give us WORTHWHILE KUVA DROPS for going longer on Kuva survival. Currently it's not worth it at all. Then maybe we'd be able to use and appreciate the gorgeous Kuva fortress tileset a bit more.

I understand wanting to simplify things to entice more new players and make more money but there's no reason we can't have both. Elite Sanctuary was a good start towards letting us push ourselves. We need more of that kind of content but much more varied than simply more survival, use the other game modes as well. Jordas Raid was frustrating but had some interesting mechanics that with a bit more polish, had potential.

Edited June 19, 2018 by Zilchy

[Vandalow.]

There was rarely a good arcane for the business, but what other casual players say about it is not simply the lack of credit or platinum, but it was a lot harder than the Eidolons. As I said earlier, Eidolons are easy, as quoted until ground can be completed. The missions of judgment were not that way. Anyway, this is just an opinion, as others may come.

[Vandalow.]

3 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

Hear Hear!

Absolutely agree with you OP. As much fun as it isn't to go and do a 2 hour survival etc I'd much rather play a mission that requires teamwork to overcome puzzles while facing high level opposition. I miss Raids, I miss having 8 clan players on discord planning on the next silly way we can complete the mission. Such highlights included doing LOR with 8 Atlas's or 8 Ash's etc, seeing exactly how many bastilles we could spam until one of our computer's crashed and whatever else we felt would be a challenge or entertaining and most importantly, FUN.

Bring back Raids DE, the Eidolons were a decent start but we need more to sink our teeth into. Though I don't miss the 24 hour wait to do them again. Give us Raids, give us events with leaderboards worth theory crafting for 2 days over before embarking on a 5 hour endurance effort to post a top score. Give us a reason for all our min-maxing that isn't simply going further in a survival, ever since you removed the ability to use 1 void key to drop a prime part every 5 waves for say 80 waves of defense or 4 hours of suvival, or 50 rounds of interception, you've removed our incentive to push harder. I can get the same amount of prime part rewards doing 5 waves now sadly. Give us WORTHWHILE KUVA DROPS for going longer on Kuva survival. Currently it's not worth it at all. Then maybe we'd be able to use and appreciate the gorgeous Kuva fortress tileset a bit more. 

That's exactly what I'm missing, that's all I need. You said it all and I do not have to add anything else. Give us back the Raids

[-CdG-Zilchy]

3 minutes ago, 0mega. said:

There was rarely a good arcane for the business, but what other casual players say about it is not simply the lack of credit or platinum, but it was a lot harder than the Eidolons. As I said earlier, Eidolons are easy, as quoted until ground can be completed. The missions of judgment were not that way. Anyway, this is just an opinion, as others may come.

Oh trust me, in a good group, the Raids were easy too, even on nightmare mode. But they were FUN. Sure there was the hardcore approach but it was also fun to go and see how many people can punch Vay Hek in the face with an Atlas in the final phase 🙂

Edited June 19, 2018 by Zilchy

[(XBOX)Evilpricetag]

Earlier I did a hijack that was in the Judgement/raid, I assume they wont come back the same way.

[Vandalow.]

3 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

Oh trust me, in a good group, the Raids were easy too, even on nightmare mode. But they were FUN. Sure there was the hardcore approach but it was also fun to go and see how many people can punch Vay Hek in the face with an Atlas in the final phase 🙂

That, too, I agree with, but let's face it, they were less easy than killing an Eidolon. People say raid was an easy way to get platinum and credit, but Eidolons are just as easy. In an hour the people, if in synchrony, manages to kill more than 8 times the Eidolons.

[Vandalow.]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Evilpricetag said:

Earlier I did a hijack that was in the Judgement/raid, I assume they wont come back the same way. 

Do not come back the same way, but come back soon.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Just now, 0mega. said:

That, too, I agree with, but let's face it, they were less easy than killing an Eidolon. People say raid was an easy way to get platinum and credit, but Eidolons are just as easy. In an hour the people, if in synchrony, manages to kill more than 8 times the Eidolons.

Well yes and no. Depends if you want to do a Tridolon hunt or just kill the Teralyst. Raid's required around 4 players but were playable up to 8. If you knew the mechanics they were easy and nobody ever died. With Eidolons, yes the Teralyst can be easily soloed but killing all 3 requires either a lot more time in solo mode or a decent team working together to do it quickly. To give you an idea we used to complete the LOR Raid in about 10 minutes give or take. Quite easy once you knew how. But I agree with you that it's easier to get MORE arcanes from eidolons as you could only run LOR and LOR nightmare mode, once every 24 hours plus 1 run of Jordas Golem Raid. And they only rewarded 1 arcane each whereas a single tricap that is repeatable will yield 3.

[Vandalow.]

4 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

Well yes and no. Depends if you want to do a Tridolon hunt or just kill the Teralyst. Raid's required around 4 players but were playable up to 8. If you knew the mechanics they were easy and nobody ever died. With Eidolons, yes the Teralyst can be easily soloed but killing all 3 requires either a lot more time in solo mode or a decent team working together to do it quickly. To give you an idea we used to complete the LOR Raid in about 10 minutes give or take. Quite easy once you knew how. But I agree with you that it's easier to get MORE arcanes from eidolons as you could only run LOR and LOR nightmare mode, once every 24 hours plus 1 run of Jordas Golem Raid. And they only rewarded 1 arcane each whereas a single tricap that is repeatable will yield 3. 

Precisely, if you have an effective team and where everyone knows the mechanics, how it works. Even though it is not difficult for you to kill the three, as I said earlier, it is easier, much easier to get arcane in the current mode, platinum comes easier. If you already have a squad where everyone is equipped correctly, we clearly repeat the eidolons at least 8 times a night and do not say just killing the Terralyst, I mean by killing all three of them several times, around at least twice (each).

[Oreades]

To be fair the Trials where in no way difficult. At least not any more difficult or challenging than the Eidolons. You only needed one person who knew the developer puzzle and a few more to stand on buttons when told. 

The only thing that made the Trials appear challenging to people was the fact that they hasn't learned them yet. Similar to Pavlov, which is literally the easiest spy mission in the whole game but people continually insist that it is the hardest spy simply because they didn't bother to learn it and it really isn't that complicated to learn. 

The reason Trials where removed wasn't because they where unpopular amongst the bulk of the community, tho that didn't help them any. They where removed because they where a constant resource drain for DE. 

Cause from the sound of it they where breaking every other update if not every single update. Which was dragging everything down with them. 

And I'm inclined to believe that scenario because the easiest thing to do if that wasn't the case would be to simply leave them in and completely ignore Trials. However DE opted to outright remove them even tho they knew it would anger a segment of the player base. So clearly simply ignoring Trials was not an option. 

I'm hopeful that not only was the removal of Trials and the resource drain they represented beneficial to the development cycle of the rest of the game but also beneficial to getting Trials 2.0 up and out, sooner rather than later.

Spoiler

I secretly think part of the Tennocon reveal very well could be a sneak peak at Trials 2.0

 

[Vandalow.]

21 hours ago, Oreades said:

To be fair the Trials where in no way difficult. At least not any more difficult or challenging than the Eidolons. You only needed one person who knew the developer puzzle and a few more to stand on buttons when told. 

The only thing that made the Trials appear challenging to people was the fact that they hasn't learned them yet. Similar to Pavlov, which is literally the easiest spy mission in the whole game but people continually insist that it is the hardest spy simply because they didn't bother to learn it and it really isn't that complicated to learn. 

The reason Trials where removed wasn't because they where unpopular amongst the bulk of the community, tho that didn't help them any. They where removed because they where a constant resource drain for DE. 

Cause from the sound of it they where breaking every other update if not every single update. Which was dragging everything down with them. 

And I'm inclined to believe that scenario because the easiest thing to do if that wasn't the case would be to simply leave them in and completely ignore Trials. However DE opted to outright remove them even tho they knew it would anger a segment of the player base. So clearly simply ignoring Trials was not an option. 

I'm hopeful that not only was the removal of Trials and the resource drain they represented beneficial to the development cycle of the rest of the game but also beneficial to getting Trials 2.0 up and out, sooner rather than later.

  Reveal hidden contents

I secretly think part of the Tennocon reveal very well could be a sneak peak at Trials 2.0

 

Drain resources? Would you be speaking of what specifically? Because beyond the resources of the planet, I do not see any other resource for drainage as you yourself quoted above. Previously we drank only three arcanes a day, and of course some credits that still did the DE did "drainage" as you yourself said, the credits were reduced, especially what we earned in LoR nightmare. Now we can simply win more than three arcanes a day and make even more platinum, so I'm certainly not quite understanding your point of view. What we mentioned was the fact that the Eidolon facility, where previously, we faced some "obstacles", as you said, we took people beginners to teach what existed in the content and today things are not quite like this, you are not to teach the content of how to kill an Eidolon for the beginning player. He simply hitchhikes and you take him even though he does not help at all. Because if you enter a random match, you have the chance to enter a match with low level players and also low knowledge, where in the trial missions the squad was divided between four people and the task also, the question of synchrony . What particularly, yes, I think the missions of LoR and Jordas were more "difficult".

[-CdG-Zilchy]

3 minutes ago, 0mega. said:

Drain resources? Would you be speaking of what specifically? Because beyond the resources of the planet, I do not see any other resource for drainage as you yourself quoted above. Previously we drank only three arcanes a day, and of course some credits that still did the DE did "drainage" as you yourself said, the credits were reduced, especially what we earned in LoR nightmare. Now we can simply win more than three arcanes a day and make even more platinum, so I'm certainly not quite understanding your point of view. What we mentioned was the fact that the Eidolon facility, where previously, we faced some "obstacles", as you said, we took people beginners to teach what existed in the content and today things are not quite like this, you are not to teach the content of how to kill an Eidolon for the beginning player. He simply hitchhikes and you take him even though he does not help at all. Because if you enter a random match, you have the chance to enter a match with low level players and also low knowledge, where in the trial missions the squad was divided between four people and the task also, the question of synchrony . What particularly, yes, I think the missions of LoR and Jordas were more "difficult".

I could be completely wrong but I think he's referring to server load.

[Vandalow.]

Just now, Zilchy said:

I could be completely wrong but I think he's referring to server load. 

I understand, but it is not wrong to say that we have had a great loss.

[Vandalow.]

I'm not complaining, nor am I putting into question who is better or more difficult, whether it's the Eidolons or simply the judgments. What I'm trying to say is that somehow those contents were by far the hardest to be difficult than what we have today, as quoted a few times, you can go alone on a mission in the plains and kill Eidolon. What certainly if you tried in the trials, could not. Guys, I understand the powders and the cons, but let's be honest, what is the endgame content that the game offers us today? Sorry, but kuva missions, survival or any defense, are not missions that require our greatest attention and effort, because they are not difficult missions.

[Oreades]

2 hours ago, Zilchy said:

I could be completely wrong but I think he's referring to server load.

Not even Server load, flat out development time. 

The thing people aren't considering or are not willing to consider are all the fixes that we never see. It's one thing to see "(Insert known bug) from the live game was fixed" in the patch notes but if they fix something during the development cycle that never make it to the live game and we never see a patch note stating they have fixed it. So we just naturally assume that (insert unknown bug) was never a thing and the game just always worked. 

From everything I've gathered it sounds like the Raids where a constant thorn in their side that required a bunch of behind the scenes fixing to keep them from totally imploding every patch. Which is supported by the fact that they removed them rather than just being able to ignore them until they where ready to push Raids 2.0.

 

In a way it's kinda like the new UI, yeah it's nice to have a pretty new UI but people don't consider the fact that is only half the reason they are doing it. The other half is because every time they went to put together the console version of the most recent PC patch they essentially had to rebuild the whole UI to for consoles. Every... single..... time.... so streamlining the UI into one that functions on both PC and Consoles with minimal tinkering during the build process, makes development that much more efficient. Which frees them up to do other things instead of having to babysit the UI every patch.