Vauban Rework When

[ironyfist]

Vauban is getting dangerously close to being enveloped entirely by power creep. I hate to see one of my most beloved frames getting replaced in the CC meta by others who perform his function to an even better degree and are much easier to obtain compared to the alert-based drop system (Even for Vauban Prime and the 20 Nitain he requires). In light of the deluxe skin for Vauban announced on the TennoLive stream last night, I talked to a friend about ideas to improve how he plays, and reintroduce him as the "utility trooper" he was made out to be, pictured below:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/340663716100177923/465561477588451328/Screenshot_2018-07-08-12-18-05-1.png

Am I the only person thinking the boy needs some love in the future? For what consistent devotion he requires to achieve (Prime variant especially), he has relatively little payback when compared to alternatives such as Nova, Saryn, Limbo, and even Volt, who I never even considered a CC frame until playing. His Vortex has some usefulness still, but I feel even Zephyr can achieve the same desired outcome. I just want my favorite frame to be useful again.

[Aleksi134]

There are already frames who do CC better.

[Yasha-7HS]

31 minutes ago, Aleksi134 said:

There are already frames who do CC better.

Did you even read the post? 

 

And, OP, Vauban already had a rework which added three new sub-abilities to his 2 and functions more like Ivara's quiver, so likely he won't be seeing a rework until we get to the other frames who need reworks far more urgently, as Vauban's kit is still effective. You just have to play hallways and close quarters rather than having massive AoE hard CC like Octavia and Excalibur. 

[Aleksi134]

53 minutes ago, Felixdb said:

Did you even read the post? 

 

And, OP, Vauban already had a rework which added three new sub-abilities to his 2 and functions more like Ivara's quiver, so likely he won't be seeing a rework until we get to the other frames who need reworks far more urgently, as Vauban's kit is still effective. You just have to play hallways and close quarters rather than having massive AoE hard CC like Octavia and Excalibur. 

Not really to the end since i have seen about 100 posts of the same topic.

[(PSN)The_PhantomSteel]

Vauban is boring to play. The only usefull ability are bastile and vortex. the frame is a engineer-themed Warframe and should have diverse ability other than grenats.

My Ideas: first ability: like the operator he will ragdoll or stagger enemys with a special force push, but its wider range and stronger, charging will give you stronger and more range                                 

                second ability: concussion will control enemys for vaubans sake and attack only attacks allies and other enemies, bounce will be like a wall,it will deflect bullets to enemies back. vauban and allies will be the only one to pass through to bounce wall,he throws multiple teslas and will stagger enemies and the tesla will do more damage. the more tesla nearby the higher the damage multiplies. 

                Third ability: vortex (way more damage), bastille(no limit to enemies and longer duration ) deployable turret, drones

                Fourth ability: first: consume energy when holding button he charges his body with energy and chreates a extra/second high shield around him. it will be gone if the shield is gets damage enough. strengh will affected how many shields you get.

                                     second: consume energy but when tap two times it will charges that energy foward and do high damage and remove armor from them

because he is tactical frame and CORPUS frame and should use different technology like iron man or batman does.

passive ability: vauban has higher chance that enemies will drop energy orb or he will regenerates energy itself, and regenerate shield faster than other frames

 

and please make Vauban have way more armor and shields. He looks like a machine and should have that.

maybe armor around 400 or more and shield when using the shield mod max at 2000 shield

 

 

I think that Vauban is a cool looking frame and have the potential to be a good and fun to play.

Edited August 6, 2018 by (PS4)The_PhantomSteel
please read my new version

[Teridax68]

I agree, Vauban needs some love. I think the issue isn't so much that he's been powercrept, but that he's always had a degree of dysfunctionality, and the missions where he used to be really valuable don't exist anymore (i.e. Trials). He's good at holding enemies in place, but that's not really the best asset in a game where players can frequently just kill everything in sight. Moreover, it's difficult for him to keep pace in a game where everyone's on the move, and where most of his abilities require him to set stuff up at static locations.

With this in mind, here's my idea for a Vauban rework:

• Stats:
  • Max energy reduced to 100 (150 at rank 30) from 150 (225 at rank 30). This sounds horrendous, but you'll see why below.
  • Vauban now passively regenerates 10 Energy per second (15 at rank 30) while not using his 1. This doesn't explain it fully yet, see below.
  • Numbers highlighted in red are affected by Power Strength, abilities highlighted in blue are affected by Power Efficiency, abilities highlighted in green are affected by Power Duration, and abilities highlighted in orange are affected by Power Range.
• Passive - Master Planner: 
  • Vauban's deployables cost no Energy to cast, and last indefinitely until activated. Instead, Vauban can deploy up to 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 of each deployable ability at a time, based on the ability's rank. Deploying a new ability when the cap is reached consumes the oldest one without detonating it.
  • All of Vauban's abilities are one-handed, and can be cast while moving without interrupting his other actions.
  • Vauban's deployables count as surfaces on which to cast others.
  • All of Vauban's deployables are highlighted when directly aimed at, are visible to Vauban through terrain, and can be detonated individually by holding the corresponding ability button while aiming at them. Holding the ability button on Bastille or Vortex without aiming for any deployable in particular detonates all deployables of the same type at once, including those still in mid-air.
  • Deployables that explode upon enemy proximity do not count the enemy they are directly deployed on as a trigger. Vauban can thus lay these deployables on an unaware enemy and have them detonate later.
• 1 - Tractor Beam: Vauban pulls the target enemy or object towards him, holding them directly in front of himself indefinitely. Press again to drop the target, and hold to throw them at high speed, dealing 125 / 250 / 375 / 500 Impact damage to the target and all enemies they collide with, as well as knocking them away. Vauban can also move any of his deployables on the field in this manner. Costs no Energy to cast, drop or throw, and 5 Energy per second to hold.
• 2 - Deploy: Vauban throws a construct that sticks to any surface, and can choose from a selection of different constructs by holding the ability:
  • Proxy Mine: Explodes after a delay when an enemy walks within 10 meters of them, dealing 2000 Blast damage to all enemies within the detection radius and knocking them down. This explosion is silent to enemies, and disintegrates all corpses within the explosion. Available at rank 0.
  • Flashbang: Explodes after a delay when an enemy walks within 10 meters of them, blinding and deafening all enemies within for 5 seconds. All affected enemies that were not previously in combat are also reduced to a non-alerted state. Available at rank 1.
  • Suppressor: Explodes after a delay when an enemy walks within 10 meters of them, reducing the armor and shields of all enemies in range by 50% for 5 seconds, while also slowing them by the same amount for the duration. Available at rank 2.
  • Force Field: Activates immediately on impact and lasts for 15 seconds, absorbing all incoming enemy projectiles within 5 meters into itself for the duration. All absorbed projectiles are concentrated into a ball, which can be picked up and thrown by Tractor Beam to deal bonus damage based on the projectiles' damage in a 5 meter radius. Available at rank 3.
• 3 - Bastille: Vauban throws a grenade that sticks to any surface. Detonated Bastille grenades turn into a 4 / 6 / 8 / 10 meter wide prison for the next 9 / 11 / 13 / 15 seconds, suspending up to 6 / 8 / 10 / 12 enemies within for the duration.
• 4 - Vortex: Vauban throws a grenade that sticks to any surface. Detonated Vortex grenades warp the nearest enemies within 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 meters instantly to their location. Enemies warped in this manner are briefly disoriented.

And here would be the corresponding augments:

• Tesla Link becomes Singularity Beam: While holding an enemy or object with Tractor Beam, Tractor Beam continues to pull all nearby enemies within 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 meters into it as well, up to a maximum of 3 / 6 / 9 / 12 total.
• New augment - Deploy Aid: Adds an additional construct Vauban can deploy, the Aid Kit, which allies or himself can consume on contact to heal for 50 / 100 / 150 / 200 health, which can also restore shields, while also gaining 50 / 100 / 150 / 200 armor for the next 4 / 6 / 8 / 10 seconds. This bonus does not stack, and detonating the ability manually destroys it without incurring its effects.
• Repelling Bastille unchanged.
• Perpetual Vortex changed: All detonated Vortex grenades now also pulse every 2 seconds for the next 4 / 6 / 8 / 10 seconds, warping all nearest enemies in range to their location each time.

The idea here is to make Vauban a premium provider of crowd control and utility, as well as a top-tier defensive frame, and preserve his identity as a tech-based/engineer frame in the process. He should be able to do things no-one else can do, such as reposition enemies from great distances away to wherever he wants, and set up and deploy traps from anywhere. However, I also think he deserves a bit more versatility, which is why the above kit would give him better stealth options (i.e. Flashbang), as well as more solo potential with effects like Tractor Beam, Proxy Mine, and Deploy Aid. Overall, he should always be a valuable asset to his team through utility and CC that would carry at all levels, and while he'd be mostly focused on static deployables, he'd still have the means to thrive while on the move by moving said deployables with him.

What are your thoughts on this?

Edited July 9, 2018 by Teridax68

[nerfinator6]

Vauban is still one of the best CC frames, I have no clue what you're on about.

[(XBOX)Godlike13]

Are they working on him, seems like people want it. I really hope so. He’s falling through the cracks. Now with Limbos stasis change too, which thank god, but ya. Vauban can use some love. 

Edited July 9, 2018 by (XB1)Godlike13

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

18 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

I agree, Vauban needs some love. I think the issue isn't so much that he's been powercrept, but that he's always had a degree of dysfunctionality, and the missions where he used to be really valuable don't exist anymore (i.e. Trials). He's good at holding enemies in place, but that's not really the best asset in a game where players can frequently just kill everything in sight. Moreover, it's difficult for him to keep pace in a game where everyone's on the move, and where most of his abilities require him to set stuff up at static locations.

With this in mind, here's my idea for a Vauban rework:

• Stats:
  • Max energy reduced to 100 (150 at rank 30) from 150 (225 at rank 30). This sounds horrendous, but you'll see why below.
  • Vauban now passively regenerates 10 Energy per second (15 at rank 30) while not using his 1. This doesn't explain it fully yet, see below.
  • Numbers highlighted in red are affected by Power Strength, abilities highlighted in blue are affected by Power Efficiency, abilities highlighted in green are affected by Power Duration, and abilities highlighted in orange are affected by Power Range.
• Passive - Master Planner: 
  • Vauban's deployables cost no Energy to cast, and last indefinitely until activated. Instead, Vauban can deploy up to 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 of each deployable ability at a time, based on the ability's rank. Deploying a new ability when the cap is reached consumes the oldest one without detonating it.
  • All of Vauban's abilities are one-handed, and can be cast while moving without interrupting his other actions.
  • Vauban's deployables count as surfaces on which to cast others.
  • All of Vauban's deployables are highlighted when directly aimed at, are visible to Vauban through terrain, and can be detonated individually by holding the corresponding ability button while aiming at them. Holding the ability button on Bastille or Vortex without aiming for any deployable in particular detonates all deployables of the same type at once, including those still in mid-air.
  • Deployables that explode upon enemy proximity do not count the enemy they are directly deployed on as a trigger. Vauban can thus lay these deployables on an unaware enemy and have them detonate later.
• 1 - Tractor Beam: Vauban pulls the target enemy or object towards him, holding them directly in front of himself indefinitely. Press again to drop the target, and hold to throw them at high speed, dealing 125 / 250 / 375 / 500 Impact damage to the target and all enemies they collide with, as well as knocking them away. Vauban can also move any of his deployables on the field in this manner. Costs no Energy to cast, drop or throw, and 5 Energy per second to hold.
• 2 - Deploy: Vauban throws a construct that sticks to any surface, and can choose from a selection of different constructs by holding the ability:
  • Proxy Mine: Explodes after a delay when an enemy walks within 10 meters of them, dealing 2000 Blast damage to all enemies within the detection radius and knocking them down. This explosion is silent to enemies, and disintegrates all corpses within the explosion. Available at rank 0.
  • Flashbang: Explodes after a delay when an enemy walks within 10 meters of them, blinding and deafening all enemies within for 5 seconds. All affected enemies that were not previously in combat are also reduced to a non-alerted state. Available at rank 1.
  • Suppressor: Explodes after a delay when an enemy walks within 10 meters of them, reducing their armor and shields by 50% for 5 seconds, while also slowing them by the same amount for the duration. Available at rank 2.
  • Force Field: Activates immediately on impact and lasts for 15 seconds, absorbing all incoming enemy projectiles within 5 meters into itself for the duration. All absorbed projectiles are concentrated into a ball, which can be picked up and thrown by Tractor Beam to deal bonus damage based on the projectiles' damage in a 5 meter radius. Available at rank 3.
• 3 - Bastille: Vauban throws a grenade that sticks to any surface. Detonated Bastille grenades turn into a 4 / 6 / 8 / 10 meter wide prison for the next 9 / 11 / 13 / 15 seconds, suspending up to 6 / 8 / 10 / 12 enemies within for the duration.
• 4 - Vortex: Vauban throws a grenade that sticks to any surface. Detonated Vortex grenades warp the nearest enemies within 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 meters instantly to their location. Enemies warped in this manner are briefly disoriented.

And here would be the corresponding augments:

• Tesla Link becomes Singularity Beam: While holding an enemy or object with Tractor Beam, Tractor Beam continues to pull all nearby enemies within 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 meters into it as well, up to a maximum of 3 / 6 / 9 / 12 total.
• New augment - Deploy Aid: Adds an additional construct Vauban can deploy, the Aid Kit, which allies or himself can consume on contact to heal for 50 / 100 / 150 / 200 health, which can also restore shields, while also gaining 50 / 100 / 150 / 200 armor for the next 4 / 6 / 8 / 10 seconds. This bonus does not stack, and detonating the ability manually destroys it without incurring its effects.
• Repelling Bastille unchanged.
• Perpetual Vortex changed: All detonated Vortex grenades now also pulse every 2 seconds for the next 4 / 6 / 8 / 10 seconds, warping all nearest enemies in range to their location each time.

The idea here is to make Vauban a premium provider of crowd control and utility, as well as a top-tier defensive frame, and preserve his identity as a tech-based/engineer frame in the process. He should be able to do things no-one else can do, such as reposition enemies from great distances away to wherever he wants, and set up and deploy traps from anywhere. However, I also think he deserves a bit more versatility, which is why the above kit would give him better stealth options (i.e. Flashbang), as well as more solo potential with effects like Tractor Beam, Proxy Mine, and Deploy Aid. Overall, he should always be a valuable asset to his team through utility and CC that would carry at all levels, and while he'd be mostly focused on static deployables, he'd still have the means to thrive while on the move by moving said deployables with him.

What are your thoughts on this?

honestly its pretty severe as most reworks i see.. but its got more interesting changes than most i see..

 

if nothing else.. i would love to see a tractor beam weapon added now.. maybe have it like the gravity device in Half life...

[Aetrion]

Guess I'm going to repost my Vauban ideas in here so this thread can serve as a collection of all the various rework ideas people have, like a community brainstorm session the designers might draw some inspiration from.

 

Tesla Turret

Basically Tesla, but with longer range, and damage that scales off your primary weapon so it isn't useless.

Refuge

A combination of mine and defensive structure. It creates a column of energy that blocks enemy fire, and players can move through freely, however, when an opponent enters the column it surges and collapses, dealing heavy damage to them. Basically a miniature snow globe except instead of having limited health it explodes if an enemy walks inside. Maybe the damage its surge does would increase with the amount of enemy fire it has absorbed. This would help with Vaubans lackluster defenses and drive home the idea that he's about fortress building.

Bastille

Bastille. Maybe remove the enemy limit so it's on par with other warframes.

Vortex

Instead of throwing the Vortex Vauban releases it in front of himself and it slowly moves in the direction you aimed, sucking up badies as it goes. That would stop it from being too similar to Bastille as a stationary CC effect, and instead turn it into a powerful offensive tool with long range capabilities.  

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

I think Scott mentioned in the last Devstream before Tennocon that they were looking at Vauban and Titania next for reworks.

[Teridax68]

3 hours ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

honestly its pretty severe as most reworks i see.. but its got more interesting changes than most i see..

Thank you! I also agree, stuff like shifting a frame away from Energy as a resource is not something everyone's gonna be on board with, and there are more functionality changes I proposed than most reworks that were implemented. Personally, I like the idea of making warframes self-sufficient, though still interactive among each other, so that playing a single frame doesn't feel like the player needs someone else to solve their problems for them. In this particular case, I feel one of Vauban's issues is that he's balanced around spamming as many of his abilities as possible, which not only makes him really Energy-hungry, but also means his abilities are individually relatively weak (besides Bastille). Giving him a limited number of deployables, while still giving him the option to increase their number, I think could remove the need for him to be gated by Energy altogether (he'd already be managing a resource), and would allow each individual ability to be made as powerful as it needs to be (e.g. one of his abilities dealing 2k base damage because he can only apply 4 of those at a time as a baseline). Ideally, this also means that Vauban wouldn't pose a processing risk on consoles, since there'd be a hard limit to the number of objects, particle effects, etc. that he'd lay on the map. 

3 hours ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

if nothing else.. i would love to see a tractor beam weapon added now.. maybe have it like the gravity device in Half life...

Agreed 100%. If there was one thing I'd keep from my rework, even at the cost of scrapping everything else, it'd be to give Vauban a gravity gun. Picking up enemies is hard CC, which fits him perfectly, and it'd be the perfect tool to let him move his static abilities around. The gravity gun was an incredibly fun and versatile weapon in Half-Life 2, and with all of his traps and proximity-based weapons, Vauban would have an immense amount of options in how to use such an effect. In BioShock, the player also had access to a telekinesis ability that let them move and throw around objects, in addition to an arsenal that let them lay down proximity mines, traps, etc.: being able to set up a booby trap with a bunch of mines, then throw said trap at a massively powerful enemy for a one-shot kill was an incredible feeling, one I think Vauban deserves to have as well.

[Buttaface]

Give a significant damage multiplier to the 1 for mobs caught in the 3 or 4 and that would save that ability. Scrap the two entirely and do something else, it's a bad joke compared to other "switch" skills like Ivara and Equinox. Vauban's augments are among the worst as well, and could use significant changes.

[Aetrion]

The mines really are a joke. Mines are useful in games where resources are scarce and going for strategies that minimize risk to yourself even if they take a long time or are unlikely to pay off makes sense, but in a game where you run and gun and can take down most enemies in seconds there is just no real point.

[JarodDempsey]

On 2018-07-09 at 9:31 AM, (XB1)Skippy575 said:

I think Scott mentioned in the last Devstream before Tennocon that they were looking at Vauban and Titania next for reworks.

yeah im pretty sure a vauban and titania rework were both confirmed.

Hes actually quite good at cc, repelling bastille is a very solid ability (should really allow bastille to have unlimited enemies cc'd or just make the aug the normal skill). In line with his bunkering theme it would be nice to have some way for him to block/intercept/redirect projectiles as well as enemies. Might as well turn his 2 into that or make it one of multiple useful deployable objects. Speaking of deployable objects, Tesla turrets. Small frames with a bunch of balls on the top that have some kind of improved scaling so as to not be useless. Limit the number placed to like 3 at once but make them indestructable and last a reasonable amount of time like 35 seconds. Honestly vortex contradicts bastille and bastille is more central to his theme so i wouldnt mind if it went away all together and he got a completely different ult, maybe he could summon a bursa or something similar to that which the corpus based the bursa designs on. IMO something similar to vortex but with more range and duration would be much more fitting on zephyr, especially since her current ult isnt much use aside from novelty.

[Aetrion]

Tesla would be a great ability if its damage scaled high enough to be useful past baby levels. Damage based abilities are always hinky in Warframe, but this one doesn't even do anything else.