Hostig games by players has to go

[Kerthis]

7 minutes ago, Syasob said:

If something happens with the server and failsafe mearures fail too, nobody can play at all until the server is fixed.

You literally described how thigs are handled in 99% multiplayer games. Bravo.

And that logic is like advising humanity to abandon cars because they break and its overally better to walk everywhere on foot.

Yea sometimes nobody can play until server is back up again. I can't belive Im seeing this lul.

[tyranno66]

Y'know maybe if every second squad you join is super laggy, your connection is to blame. I do get the occasional high ping host but overall it's fine for me. And mind you I'm in eastern europe using the normal centralized europe servers.

[Kerthis]

2 minutes ago, Syasob said:

Oh, look, 3 poor players had bad luck joining host with poor device, let's start a sh*tstorm about it. I got it already, you're out of luck, don't bother typing more examples, please.

Warframe is fine with 4-player squads. The only 8-player mission type failed to survive not because of P2P. And why the Hek should we have more?

 

You sir and your attitude towards things are pure gold. It's not about having  a bad luck from time to time. It's fairly common.

Yea why the hekk should we have more players in a group, because I dont see this happen and needed there must be no reason for anyone right? If you are fine with 4 people in a squad thats fine but dont think every1 wont ever get a desire to play with more players. Because you dont see it there must be literally no reason to have more players. Jesus christ people on this forums..

Im starting to think you are that stone age man with bad internet and you got somehow offended by this thread. If that so, sorry. If thats the case Ill tell the 90's to not bother you any longer 😉

[Zengaze]

I agree with OP P2P is an awful solution, from awful connections, to data loss. It makes game experience pot luck as to what you're going to get. After a lot of games where the lagg and desync were horrendous, i set my ping MM to the lowest available (100ms). Honestly 100ms is garbage at that, as any game i play, which hosts on its own European servers, I rarely see my ping spike to over 40.

[Kerthis]

4 minutes ago, tyranno66 said:

Y'know maybe if every second squad you join is super laggy, your connection is to blame. I do get the occasional high ping host but overall it's fine for me. And mind you I'm in eastern europe using the normal centralized europe servers.

My connection is fine, every time im the host everything tuns smoothly. Maybe I have just a bad luck. But that changes nothing, this concept of p2p is archaic and needs to be changed for the sake of everyone.

 

And too all of you defenders of that p2p situation. What would you lose if DE decided to change it? I'll answer for you: literally nothing.

[tyranno66]

3 minutes ago, Zengaze said:

I agree with OP P2P is an awful solution, from awful connections, to data loss. It makes game experience pot luck as to what you're going to get. After a lot of games where the lagg and desync were horrendous, i set my ping MM to the lowest available (100ms). Honestly 100ms is garbage at that, as any game i play, which hosts on its own European servers, I rarely see my ping spike to over 40.

Do... Do you not know what ping is? The lower the ping the better the connection is, meaning no lag.

[HeartPurity]

4 minutes ago, Kerthis said:

You sir and your attitude towards things are pure gold. It's not about having  a bad luck from time to time. It's fairly common.

Yea why the hekk should we have more players in a group, because I dont see this happen and needed there must be no reason for anyone right? If you are fine with 4 people in a squad thats fine but dont think every1 wont ever get a desire to play with more players. Because you dont see it there must be literally no reason to have more players. Jesus christ people on this forums..

Im starting to think you are that stone age man with bad internet and you got somehow offended by this thread. If that so, sorry. If thats the case Ill tell the 90's to not bother you any longer 😉

I feel you bro, (preparing the bricks, come, here one for you.) 👍 

[Kerthis]

4 minutes ago, Zengaze said:

I agree with OP P2P is an awful solution, from awful connections, to data loss. It makes game experience pot luck as to what you're going to get. After a lot of games where the lagg and desync were horrendous, i set my ping MM to the lowest available (100ms). Honestly 100ms is garbage at that, as any game i play, which hosts on its own European servers, I rarely see my ping spike to over 40.

Thx bud. Did you ever got your connection down after the mission was supposedly over? I have 😞

[Syasob]

6 minutes ago, Kerthis said:

You literally described how thigs are handled in 99% multiplayer games. Bravo.

Thank you. Now you understand why MMOs' server architecture can't be used for coop session shooter, don't you?

9 minutes ago, Kerthis said:

And that logic is like advising humanity to abandon cars because they break and its overally better to walk everywhere on foot.

Yea sometimes nobody can play until server is back up again. I can't belive Im seeing this lul.

No. If you need RL example, here's one for you: you don't have to call a taxi to go to the shop in front of your home. Sometimes taxi service don't work but you still can go buy some food on your own.

[HeartPurity]

1 hour ago, Inspector said:

This is a personal problem because you opt into world which means you are entitled to nothing. If you have such a bad time with this I'd suggest solo or make a group of dedicated players for your internet standards.
You should also know you can limit the ms number to what games you joined. The fact you make no notion to this shows what little you know and you would go right to DE to solve your problem and blame their servers.

 

14 minutes ago, Syasob said:

Oh, look, 3 poor players had bad luck joining host with poor device, let's start a sh*tstorm about it. I got it already, you're out of luck, don't bother typing more examples, please.

Warframe is fine with 4-player squads. The only 8-player mission type failed to survive not because of P2P. And why the Hek should we have more?

 

Some of the above replies don't even get what the gist of this thread. if it is a flawed system, why don't let players voice out their opinions? It is like "oh the soup is sour?" "Ya, but we only have 1 bowl of potato soup, and we have no more potatoes left, so just keep quiet and drink that bowl of sour soup." "Nothing can be done. Soup is made." Just accept your fate to play with stone age man with stone age internet and stone PC. 

[tyranno66]

1 minute ago, Kerthis said:

My connection is fine, every time im the host everything tuns smoothly. Maybe I have just a bad luck. But that changes nothing, this concept of p2p is archaic and needs to be changed for the sake of everyone.

 

And too all of you defenders of that p2p situation. What would you lose if DE decided to change it? I'll answer for you: literally nothing.

Of course you're fine if you are the host. Everyone is, even the dude with the "stone age internet". That's how P2P works.

As for your second point. DE will loose a lot of time and money if they were to set up dedicated servers. It's literally going to take them rewriting network code from scratch which usually takes years. And in those years we won't be getting any new content since everyone would be working on net code 

[Kerthis]

1 minute ago, Syasob said:

Thank you. Now you understand why MMOs' server architecture can't be used for coop session shooter, don't you?

It's bollocks, you wanna example? How about diablo 3, how about Path of Exile? Architecture is provided by the dev and still in some magic way it allows you to have a coop parties. And if the one guy in grp is lagging, well bad for him, other people arent affected.

[HeartPurity]

1 minute ago, tyranno66 said:

Of course you're fine if you are the host. Everyone is, even the dude with the "stone age internet". That's how P2P works.

As for your second point. DE will loose a lot of time and money if they were to set up dedicated servers. It's literally going to take them rewriting network code from scratch which usually takes years. And in those years we won't be getting any new content since everyone would be working on net code 

Or if things cant be fixed at least give us an option to toggle "always host".  

[Kerthis]

4 minutes ago, HeartPurity said:

 

Some of the above replies don't even get what the gist of this thread. if it is a flawed system, why don't let players voice out their opinions? It is like "oh the soup is sour?" "Ya, but we only have 1 bowl of potato soup, and we have no more potatoes left, so just keep quiet and drink that bowl of sour soup." "Nothing can be done. Soup is made." Just accept your fate to play with stone age man with stone age internet and stone PC. 

You are making my day ^^

[Kerthis]

5 minutes ago, tyranno66 said:

Of course you're fine if you are the host. Everyone is, even the dude with the "stone age internet". That's how P2P works.

I play with my friend who is in a different city with different connection form even a different ISP and he still has no problem with me hosting (neither am I with him hosting).. so.. your point was..?

Edited August 9, 2018 by Kerthis

[tyranno66]

1 minute ago, Kerthis said:

I play with my friend who is in a different city with different connection form even a different ISP and he still has no problem with me hosting (neither I am with him hosting).. so.. your point was..?

You and your friend can play together without lag. Good for you. Your sample size is way too small tho.

Also why didn't you respond to my second point? Or do you like picking cherries?

[Zengaze]

4 minutes ago, tyranno66 said:

Do... Do you not know what ping is? The lower the ping the better the connection is, meaning no lag.

I'm not sure if how i worded my post was poor, or you failed to parse it, so i'll explain what i meant better. You can set your max ping connection to 100ms in Warframe's P2P solution. Not sure how much that limit is actually used, but 100ms, is still a high ping for this type of game. In other games i play, that don't use the P2P solution, and instead employ dedicated servers for each region, i rarely ever see my ping spike to over 40, with an average connection being in the mid 30's.

 

I do hope i understand ping as it relates to network traffic, as though i am getting old, i did qualify as a network engineer 20 years ago, and strangely enough the OSI model was a part of it back then too.

[Kerthis]

10 minutes ago, tyranno66 said:

You and your friend can play together without lag. Good for you. Your sample size is way too small tho.

Also why didn't you respond to my second point? Or do you like picking cherries?

No no, no picking cherris here. I like cherry pies tho (go figure 😉 ). As to what you've said:

Quote

As for your second point. DE will loose a lot of time and money if they were to set up dedicated servers. It's literally going to take them rewriting network code from scratch which usually takes years. And in those years we won't be getting any new content since everyone would be working on net code 

Yes it comes down with a cost. Who would have thought about it? It's how things work. It's a pill the DE must swallow at some point if they want to grow and bring more and more ideas to the table. You'll see. And you know what? It's because this system is not efficient to begin with. Im 100% sure DE realises that but they have tied hands for now. I am just bringig this problem to the table so we can discuss it.

I never thought that I will find that many deffenders of this p2p system. I dont know what you guys stand for but I stand for improvements and overall better experience for all of us.

Edited August 9, 2018 by Kerthis

[tyranno66]

1 minute ago, Kerthis said:

No no, no picking cherris here. I like cherry pies tho (go figure 😉 ). As to what you've said:

Yes it comes down with a cost. Who would have thought about it? It's how things work. It's a pill the DE must swallow at some point if they want to grow and bring more and more ideas to the table. You'll see. And you know what? It's because this system is not efficient to begin with. Im 100% DE realises that but they have tied hands for now. I am just bringig this problem to the table so we can discuss it.

I never thought that I will find that many deffenders of this p2p system. I dont know what you guys stand for but I stand for improvements and overall better experience for all of us.

How interesting, I want the game to improve too! That's why making dedicated servers is a terrible idea. This game survives only on its fast patches. If DE were to take the time (something that you again omitted) the game would literally die. People are already complaining about the "content drought".

[Helch0rn]

4 minutes ago, Kerthis said:

No no, no picking cherris here. I like cherry pies tho (go figure 😉 ). As to what you've said:

Yes it comes down with a cost. Who would have thought about it? It's how things work. It's a pill the DE must swallow at some point if they want to grow and bring more and more ideas to the table. You'll see. And you know what? It's because this system is not efficient to begin with. Im 100% DE realises that but they have tied hands for now. I am just bringig this problem to the table so we can discuss it.

I never thought that I will find that many deffenders of this p2p system. I dont know what you guys stand for but I stand for improvements and overall better experience for all of us.

> the game can't grow without gettind of p2p

kek

 

[Kerthis]

Just now, tyranno66 said:

How interesting, I want the game to improve too! That's why making dedicated servers is a terrible idea. This game survives only on its fast patches. If DE were to take the time (something that you again omitted) the game would literally die. People are already complaining about the "content drought".

OK maybe to get to any understanding we must separate things here. Cost of the solution isnt the direct flaw of the solution itself. Can we agree on that? Yes, if changing the current p2p system was to bring the death of WF I wouldn't want that of course! But it is not stopping me from briging this problem up, from showing a better solution which can be achieved even in a few years. Im not like a spoiled child wanting stuff here and now. My OP was worded in specific way to bring more people to the discussion. I hoped every1 here realised that long ago.

[KIREEK]

I don't mind them having the ability to host or join groups, the issue is that after you are past a certain point and reach let's say the sorties, players who have played like 1000 missions, have likely been the host in some of them, like 100 missions, they clearly have received feedback regarding them hosting, what do they do with this feedback?

From my experience, when they see they aren't joining and instead the game presents the info that is "waiting for players", they will likely press the "start anyway" button instead of trying again

These players lack common sense, they received feedback duzzens if not hundreds of times yet instead of joining they make the game public and start it right away, so everyone that joins will suffer.

I can understand host migrations picking up the wrong user, i can understand not knowing you are the host, all of that is ok.

But when you force the game as a host and we are doing sorties or anything past saturn or so, why do you do it?

Some even find it a suprise, as if players complaining was unexpected, being one of the most common excuses the sentece " but i can't decide to be a host or not"

Yes, YES you can, trowing these excuses in sorties for example only means you deserve a punch in the face.

Some lag is ok, we can manage, but alot like 1500 ping, we can't barely do anything, the game becomes unplayable, so please don't act as if it's your 1st time, you knew from the start and you went forward and did it again.

[Kerthis]

1 minute ago, KIREEK said:

I don't mind them having the ability to host or join groups, the issue is that after you are past a certain point and reach let's say the sorties, players who have played like 1000 missions, have likely been the host in some of them, like 100 missions, they clearly have received feedback regarding them hosting, what do they do with this feedback?

From my experience, when they see they aren't joining and instead the game presents the info that is "waiting for players", they will likely press the "start anyway" button instead of trying again

These players lack common sense, they received feedback duzzens if not hundreds of times yet instead of joining they make the game public and start it right away, so everyone that joins will suffer.

I can understand host migrations picking up the wrong user, i can understand not knowing you are the host, all of that is ok.

But when you force the game as a host and we are doing sorties or anything past saturn or so, why do you do it?

Some even find it a suprise, as if players complaining was unexpected, being one of the most common excuses the sentece " but i can't decide to be a host or not"

Yes, YES you can, trowing these excuses in sorties for example only means you deserve a punch in the face.

Some lag is ok, we can manage, but alot like 1500 ping, we can't barely do anything, the game becomes unplayable, so please don't act as if it's your 1st time, you knew from the start and you went forward and did it again.

And my point being this whole situation and milion others alike could be entirely avoided.

[_Urakaze_]

90% of the time p2p is fine

but those 10%, oh boy

so lag that the game considered me as afk, even tho I was moving the whole time

btw my ping limit is 200, standard is 250

[Zeclem]

35 minutes ago, Syasob said:

Thank you. Now you understand why MMOs' server architecture can't be used for coop session shooter, don't you?

actually plenty of shooters are handled the same way as well. in fact, wf is the only relevant shooter out there that uses P2P.

35 minutes ago, Syasob said:

No. If you need RL example, here's one for you: you don't have to call a taxi to go to the shop in front of your home. Sometimes taxi service don't work but you still can go buy some food on your own.

so P2P is only good because we could play warframe even after de stopped supporting it? im terribly sorry to ask this but, are you high by any chance? and no, de makes more than enough money to have proper dedicated servers for servers downtime not being an issue.