Ivara Seems Awesome,but Something Keeps Lacking...

[unknow99]

Hello tenno,

 

I've always Struggled against Hype.

 

...I've been playing for nearly 3 years now, and I've seen my share of hype megathreads or hype sites, full of overly enthusiastic people who got high chances to be disappointed...

 

I've always waited a week or 2 for the day-1 bugs to get fixed before touching the game...

 

However, after watching the new warframe (Ivara) in action :

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...Wooow man.

 

Whoever thought about her powers([DE]Scott? [DE]Steve?), whoever thought about adding her to spy vaults....

 

Thank you. Thank you! I already imagine all the opportunities!!! (She can even create friggin' ziplines & distract people!!!)

 

NEVERTHELESS, and I also saw that constructive remark pop in the twitch chat :

 

Let's stay realistic & down-to-earth.

 

/!\As amazing as Ivara would be, that won't be enough to solve the Stealth/AI system issues./!\

 

It maybe doesn't need a whole update around it (like Parkour), but some work needs to be done : if 3 warframes can sneak around properly but the rest can't, there's a problem (or you can stop calling us "space ninja". Because a ninja is supposed to be skilled at espionage & secrecy!)

 

Thoughts?

Edited November 27, 2015 by unknow99

[Kthal]

I should point out...

 

I can successfully complete any Spy vault with any loadout.

I am capable of doing any vault undetected, but without certain frames I cannot go above a 60% flawless rate.

 

 

It's difficult, true, but far from impossible.

[God_is_a_Cat_Girl]

Yeah, the system itself and how enemies react to opposition doesn't really make the game any stealthy, but rather you are extra stealthy to make up for the lack of proper systems.

The enemies doesn't really suspect that they saw something from really far, they just start shooting and running for cover/a console and even if they only heard a gunshot, they automatically and most of the time precisely know where you are. Only a few times I had alerted enemies that wouldn't precisely track me even though I wasn't in the FoV.

They really need to make enemies react to seeing the player and hearing sounds, and add multiple levels of alertness rather than the ones that we have now that have such a thin line between not alerted and full alert, that stealth ends up being meh.

 

Ivara actually brings something that Warframe lacked about stealth (except the infested bait) which is that she can bait enemies, which we really didn't have any tool for that besides decoy/molt which pretty much just makes the enemy shoot it, not inspect it or get close.
What makes stealth fun in games like MGSV, is how you can use things to trick the enemy, sound or decoys make inspect them first rather than blindly shooting. Even if you end up alerting the enemy to enemy presence, you can still trick them with a C4 explosive on the opposite side of the camp. Perhaps we just don't see the death count caused by accidental deaths in the grineer and corpus ranks because they shoot first, inspect later, so every time one of them sneezes, someone dies.

[unknow99]

I should point out...

I can successfully complete any Spy vault with any loadout.

I am capable of doing any vault undetected, but without certain frames I cannot go above a 60% flawless rate.

It's difficult, true, but far from impossible.

I'm in the same case as you : the problem I'm pointing out is not from the player side though, it's addressing the enemies directly :

People walking in circles, people colliding into groups, the telepathic hivemind (these flaws are less annoying than before, but that's still here!) :

 

They can add an amazing warframe, but this won't be fixed. :/

Youknowwhatimsayin'?

Edited November 27, 2015 by unknow99

[unknow99]

Yeah, the system itself and how enemies react to opposition doesn't really make the game any stealthy, but rather you are extra stealthy to make up for the lack of proper systems.

The enemies doesn't really suspect that they saw something from really far, they just start shooting and running for cover/a console and even if they only heard a gunshot, they automatically and most of the time precisely know where you are. Only a few times I had alerted enemies that wouldn't precisely track me even though I wasn't in the FoV.

They really need to make enemies react to seeing the player and hearing sounds, and add multiple levels of alertness rather than the ones that we have now that have such a thin line between not alerted and full alert, that stealth ends up being meh.

 

Ivara actually brings something that Warframe lacked about stealth (except the infested bait) which is that she can bait enemies, which we really didn't have any tool for that besides decoy/molt which pretty much just makes the enemy shoot it, not inspect it or get close.

What makes stealth fun in games like MGSV, is how you can use things to trick the enemy, sound or decoys make inspect them first rather than blindly shooting. Even if you end up alerting the enemy to enemy presence, you can still trick them with a C4 explosive on the opposite side of the camp. Perhaps we just don't see the death count caused by accidental deaths in the grineer and corpus ranks because they shoot first, inspect later, so every time one of them sneezes, someone dies.

 

That's EXACTLY what I mean!

[--MZez--]

:D!!

[Electrod0g]

Funny thing is that 'sound' in Warframe has a range. Sure, once a foe is alerted they all auto track you unless you hack to reset the flag in the mission. But the AI's eyes and ears are wonky. Banshee actually stealths spy mission better than anyone than Loki or Ash.

[Brahkest]

I agree, I'm super hyped for Ivara but not looking forward to dumb AI, especially when sneaking. It's not that hard though - I often complete spy missions perfectly with my rhino but it does really put a damper on the game when an enemy happens to sniff me a mile away or when every enemy in the base is suddenly alerted. It's nice to see another stealth frame though (especially that zipline ability, can't wait to use that all over the place).

 

I hope at some point stealth gets a look at because it really gets frustrating to get caught by enemies and whatnot that are stuck pacing back and forth, thereby having 360 vision and the ability to force touch the alarm console.

[Chhkt]

I imagine future fixes in Stealth 2.0 (whenever that is) will make Ivara truly shine.

Until then, we can just keep rolling our faces across our keyboards repeatedly while thinking we are being space ninjas.

She's worth it Tenno, don't stop believing.

[PublikDomain]

Imagine her in LoR raids. Stage 2, drop stealth bubbles on all the pads. Put all the enemies to sleep. Also her looting ability seems to work multiple times on the same enemy.

[Basilisk1991]

I would like to point out that the guards in this game are in fact crazy (Thank you TV Tropes). I can have two guys staring straight at one another and shoot an arrow with enough force to pin one of the guys to the nearby wall and his partner's reaction is "See you later steve!" and to just walk away like his friend didn't just die horribly, but if I get seen by one guy every guard in like a 100 meter radius automatically knows EXACTLY where I am.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Basilisk1991

[unknow99]

Funny thing is that 'sound' in Warframe has a range. Sure, once a foe is alerted they all auto track you unless you hack to reset the flag in the mission. But the AI's eyes and ears are wonky. Banshee actually stealths spy mission better than anyone than Loki or Ash.

Definitely! Stealth attacks, for example, got a sound radius of 3 meters, if I remember correctly. (enough distance to make you think twice about executing someone next to his pal...)

 

 

I imagine future fixes in Stealth 2.0 (whenever that is) will make Ivara truly shine.

Until then, we can just keep rolling our faces across our keyboards repeatedly while thinking we are being space ninjas.

 

Let's keep faith, let's keep faith....

 

*continue rolling my face on the keyboard & see what happens*

 

 

Imagine her in LoR raids. Stage 2, drop stealth bubbles on all the pads. Put all the enemies to sleep. Also her looting ability seems to work multiple times on the same enemy.

...You're a genius. It's an excellent idea! It's maybe too excellent : I hope [DE]Scott doesn't read that right now...

Oh! Who am I kidding? Devs don't read Stealth 2.0 topics! :D

 

 

I would like to point out that the guards in this game are in fact crazy (Thank you TV Tropes). I can have two guys staring straight at one another and shoot an arrow with enough force to pin the guy to the nearby wall and his reaction is "See you later steve!" and just walk away like his friend didn't just die horribly,  but if I get seen by one guy every guard in like a 100 meter radius automatically knows EXACTLY where I am.

Although the first flaw is kinda clunky but funny, the second one is EXTREMELY frustrating!!! That omniscience/telepathy needs to stop!

 

How many times should we say it?!

[EmeraldSpider135]

I Support Ivara In Every Way, And IMO Is Far More Warframe-ish Than The Fugly Nezha And Wukong xD.

[(PSN)AngelShur]

Good feedback! 

[Ancibion]

I'm in the same case as you : the problem I'm pointing out is not from the player side though, it's addressing the enemies directly :

People walking in circles, people colliding into groups, the telepathic hivemind (these flaws are less annoying than before, but that's still here!) :

 

They can add an amazing warframe, but this won't be fixed. :/

Youknowwhatimsayin'?

 

Just put them out from their misery

[unknow99]

Good feedback! 

Thanks!

 

 

Just put them out from their misery

Yeah, you could BUT as you kill one,the others might stop glitchily turning around & enter a semi-alerted state. If you don't kill the suspicious guys in a second = BOOM! Detected!

 

Currently, the only ways to deal with such situations are Castanas/throwable melee + power throw/placing a very accurate arrow when they're in line/use explosive but silent stuff/Using Equinox 'rest' (or the upcoming sleeping arrow of Ivara).

 

And it'll work only if you kill them all in one go... :/

[Renegade343]

Yeah, you could BUT as you kill one,the others might stop glitchily turning around & enter a semi-alerted state. If you don't kill the suspicious guys in a second = BOOM! Detected!

 

Currently, the only ways to deal with such situations are Castanas/throwable melee + power throw/placing a very accurate arrow when they're in line/use explosive but silent stuff/Using Equinox 'rest' (or the upcoming sleeping arrow of Ivara).

 

And it'll work only if you kill them all in one go... :/

Timing is everything. There is a very high statistical probability that no two enemies spin the same in terms of initial position and/or direction. Just analyse, then pick out one by one. If semi-alerted, hide until alert levels drop. 

[unknow99]

Timing is everything. There is a very high statistical probability that no two enemies spin the same in terms of initial position and/or direction. Just analyse, then pick out one by one. If semi-alerted, hide until alert levels drop. 

You're well aware that stealth highly relies on analyse & timing, and you're right about the semi-alerted state aswell, can't deny this.

 

I just hope that they'll stop entering that annoying clustered enemies bug right in front of a door though... :p

 

It'll make things more comfortable! (I'm not saying easier because I don't want DE to make Stealth a walk in the park)

[Renegade343]

You're well aware that stealth highly relies on analyse & timing, and you're right about the semi-alerted state aswell, can't deny this.

 

I just hope that they'll stop entering that annoying clustered enemies bug right in front of a door though... :p

 

It'll make things more comfortable! (I'm not saying easier because I don't want DE to make Stealth a walk in the park)

Not too much of a problem for me personally, because this problems trains adaptability for me, which I would enjoy. 

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

I have to agree sadly.  Sometimes stealth is so wonky.  Like you can literally kill 5 guys with one arrow.  and the sixth guy just stops for a second.  and then continues.  "welp everything's in order here."

 

Yet sometimes when i'm hard core peaking a corner with nothing exposed they can some how see my invisible camera that sits on my shoulder.  and they lose their S#&$.

 

I'm also confused on why I can be close enough to tell what they are.  yet the enemy must be so blind that they don't see me aiming an arrow for their head.

 

Yesterday I must have bugged the game.  Because the noise was going off like they were purging data.  but nothing was happening.  the noise persisted to the second vault where I happened to run smack into a laster tripwire wall that wasn't actually there.

[Ichigo]

I sort of agree. I don't like how Ivara is a stealth frame when Warframe is no longer about stealth, but instead fast paced action. Take void missions for example. Ivara will be totally useless in a T4D, which is what I live for! And it doesn't look like Ivara has the "exalted bow" ability people (including devs I think) have been talking about.

[Racter]

I sort of agree. I don't like how Ivara is a stealth frame when Warframe is no longer about stealth, but instead fast paced action. Take void missions for example. Ivara will be totally useless in a T4D, which is what I live for! And it doesn't look like Ivara has the "exalted bow" ability people (including devs I think) have been talking about.

Her ult is literally called Exalted Bow in the stream, what are you talking about? Just because it's not literally a Fluctus? Personally super grateful for this lol

[PrVonTuckIII]

I sort of agree. I don't like how Ivara is a stealth frame when Warframe is no longer about stealth, but instead fast paced action. Take void missions for example. Ivara will be totally useless in a T4D, which is what I live for! And it doesn't look like Ivara has the "exalted bow" ability people (including devs I think) have been talking about.

 

Lol wut?

 

She has the bow. Where did you get that notion into your noggin?

 

And even though she is a primarily stealth frame, I don't see how she could be detrimental to T4D. Ash is a stealth frame. Yet I and many other people take him to T4. Her abilities are nice, and a welcome, and fun break from all this stuff.

Edited December 1, 2015 by PrVonTuckIII

[achromos]

Lol wut?

 

She has the bow. Where did you get that notion into your noggin?

 

And even though she is a primarily stealth frame, I don't see how she could be detrimental to T4D. Ash is a stealth frame. Yet I and many other people take him to T4. Her abilities are nice, and a welcome, and fun break from all this stuff.

 

Exactly, and through some theorycrafting I highly doubt having a frame that can bring Team Stealth, lob arrows at the enemies that make them sleep, and have a bow that shoots a wide or narrow fan of arrows wouldn't be useful in T4D. 

 

I'm having a hard time thinking of a unsuitable Mission type for her... I cannot think of one.  Yes there are frames that can do better in specifics maybe, but she isn't hopeless from what we've been shown of her.

[Chhkt]

Exactly, and through some theorycrafting I highly doubt having a frame that can bring Team Stealth, lob arrows at the enemies that make them sleep, and have a bow that shoots a wide or narrow fan of arrows wouldn't be useful in T4D.

I'm having a hard time thinking of a unsuitable Mission type for her... I cannot think of one. Yes there are frames that can do better in specifics maybe, but she isn't hopeless from what we've been shown of her.

You're right! I could even see her doing well at pole zipline dancing, suckering all those poor male frames and Ember out of their credits.

And then I could picture Nyx slapping Excal when he gets home late at night.

Damn, rambling again!

Edited December 1, 2015 by Xcedis