Nullifiers And Sapping Osprey: The Most Hated Patch

[DrBorris]

Fun fact: Nullifiers and Sapping Osprey were both added in the same patch, both without any indication in the patch notes. At the time and pretty much up until Sorties, Nullifiers got all of the attention as “Broken” units, mostly due to the damage of Sapping Osprey never being that bad (because low levels). But now that we have Sorties I think we can say an area denial that can be rapidly spammed is just as bad if not worse than those Nullifier bubbles.

 

So… here is my idea. Remove all damage from sapping osprey and instead make the range a nullification area. Then remove Nullifier’s ability to nullify abilities within range, but keep the ability to protect those inside the bubble from abilities.

 

I have actually been saying this since they first came out, Sapping Osprey are anti-fun and Nullifiers are too many mechanics wrapped up into one unit. DE keeps talking about frame synergy, I think it is time for some more enemy synergy.

 

Edit: I mustn't've been clear enough about the Nullifier change proposed. Nullifiers would still function exactly as they do now from outside the bubble, the difference is that you will no longer have your abilities dispelled when you, the Tenno, enter the nullifier field.

 

And a second side note, please make the AoE fx of the Sapping Osprey a 3d model to represent its 3d AoE. We should be able to see the sphere-o-insta-death at least (Or hopefully, if DE likes this idea, the sphere-o-nullification).

Edited December 24, 2015 by DrBorris

[FrostSpecter]

I like this. Valid criticism with a constructive plan for how to move forward. Good suggestions too. +1.

[Megakruemel]

Nullifiers felt kind of forced to me when they came out. Sure it is a nice idea and all but they deny to much and allow to little in terms of countermeasures. Wearing a bubble down is hard enough and in high level content you just don't have the time to deal with the bubbles themselves.

A little damper in their nullifier-ability would surely not hurt.

What i hate most, is that they cancel out warframe abilities cast on the warframe itself AND on teams. Take the warcry buff for example. If i run into a bubble after i applied the buff to me and my teammates, my teammates will loose the buff also, even while outside the bubble.

 

Now to ospreys. Sortie content makes these just a pain to deal with. I know they "fixed" the "bug"(has been around for ages, almost thought it was a feature) that made it impossible for you to actually shoot the dispensers when they were not dealing damage already, yet those AoE-fields could straight out one-hit a valkyr in level 100 missions. If you are playing these missions solo, getting spammed with dispensers is not really nice.

The huge area of denial is just...well, to huge.

[Nova-Gamer]

Do to both of these enemies being added into the game I outright refuse to fight the corpus. At this point the Grineer are a better faction in terms of fun and good mechanics. I will only ever face the corpus if I absolutely need anything is if its a potato or an event, other than that they don't exist for me. 

 

I just wish they were looked at a lot more before being added into the game and had their mechanics truly flushed out instead of being as broken and not fun as they are. I support all of your criticisms against these enemies and ways to fix them.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Nova-Gamer

[Nesit1]

Without them Corpus would be too easy to deal with. Best addition to game in general.

[KiloFoxx]

I'll be honest, I expected a lot of negativity in this thread but everything is positive so far. awesome!

 

I've LOATHED Sapper Ospreys since day 1, primarily since, although their damage was low-ish, you almost never realized you were in a field due to aiming UP to try and kill the Sapper. I cannot TELL you how many times that killed me on its own >.<

 

I straight-up hate fighting the Corpus simply due to the fact that they seem to deal a LOT more damage to me than the Grineer. they just RIP through my HP and Shields FAR faster than Grineer do for whatever reason, and Sapper Ospreys and Nullifiers (and those non-bubble Nullifiers I can never remember the name of that only disable certain types of abilities) make them by far the most gimmicky and cheap-o faction to fight of the 5 (Corpus, Grineer, Infested, Corrupted, Sentient) I avoid them where I can, and will typically side with Grineer on Invasion maps if for no other reason than to deny the Corpus another node.

 

These Corpus enemies do need a re-work pretty badly. and Sappers need to be straight-up REMOVED from Defend-type missions, as 1 or 2 of them can wipe out your defense target in seconds with basically nothing you can do about it. as for nulls, I was in a Sortie a day or two ago (I forget what the mission type was) but there were Nullifiers EVERYWHERE which really kinda threw a wrench into all our plans and attempts to keep the unit together. I was running Valk at the time luckily and basically had to run around rezzing EVERYONE because they'd fall almost instantly to Nulls and Sappers. it was very frustrating.

 

A halfway-decent way to balance nulls would be to allow Punch-through mods to punch through the barrier field. letting you actually snipe the Nullifier

[Nova-Gamer]

Without them Corpus would be too easy to deal with. Best addition to game in general.

I'm not saying they are something that shouldn't be added into the game but HOW they were added was terrible. There are so many ways to make enemies like these fun and challenging and not this messed up mess of units we got now. The Comba and Scramba are good enemies that are fun to fight and actually work.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Nova-Gamer

[DrBorris]

Without them Corpus would be too easy to deal with. Best addition to game in general.

Spammed areas of nullification and still retaining the ability "deflection" of Nullifiers will make them easier?

 

Corpus can use some help, yes, but cheap mechanics are not how to do it.

[Nesit1]

I'm not saying they are something that shouldn't be added into the game but HOW they were added was terrible. There are so many ways to make enemies like these fun and challenging and not this messed up mess of units we got now. The Comba and Scramba are good enemies that are fun to fight and actually work.

When they just screw up your abiltiies by presence... fun. Their fight style is cool, yeah, but this is just another usual unit with few cheap tricks.

 

Nullifiers can be focused (you can see 'em from ~50 meters, because of bubble), you can take down their shields, using proper weapons and make good zoning if you are melee, while new disruptor units can be taken down by just few shots. Nothing else. Nothing new.

 

Ospreys are easy to notice if you actually try looking for 'em (they fly above), their bombs get so much time to arm and you can shoot down those bombs. But you need to look for 'em, need to aim, need to jump (to avoid damage) and that's what makes 'em interesting.

 

But no, aiming is too hard. I can't sit and win in one place, so they should be changed.

[Roboplus]

I don't really have a problem with Nullifiers.

 

Sapping Ospray's can straight up be removed from the game though.

[hukurokuju5]

theres no counterplay to ospreys except to kill them before they drop their balls. once they do drop  a ball, you cant destroy it until it gets  a pulse off, and most of the time, that means its too late and you should have just gtfo of the area

[Stormdragon]

The only change I would do to sapping ospreys is capping the amount of them on certain rooms and/or remove the capability to stack multiple sappers on the same area, increasing the denied area but avoiding them to stack ridiculous amounts of damage in the same small radius.

About nullifiers, they are fine, I'd just give back bubble reduction based on damage, making slow weapons as viable against them as the automatic rifles currently are.

We have lots of cheap tactics, let the corpus have their own

Edit:

theres no counterplay to ospreys except to kill them before they drop their balls. once they do drop a ball, you cant destroy it until it gets a pulse off, and most of the time, that means its too late and you should have just gtfo of the area

This was fixed not so long ago, so sapping bubbles can be destroyed before deploying the first damage pulse. Edited December 24, 2015 by -----LegioN-----

[Necrius]

I hate them too, but they do feel kinda fitting. Corpus are quite squishy compared ot Grineer after all.

[DrBorris]

I don't really have a problem with Nullifiers.

 

Sapping Ospray's can straight up be removed from the game though.

I actually don't have much against Nullifiers either (except their sniper sometimes), but having Sapping Osprey AND Nullifiers be nullifying everything would be too much.

 

theres no counterplay to ospreys except to kill them before they drop their balls. once they do drop  a ball, you cant destroy it until it gets  a pulse off, and most of the time, that means its too late and you should have just gtfo of the area

Pretty much this, there are sometimes no chances of escape from Sapping Osprey, if they just nullify they would still be extremely powerful but would also allow for counterplay.

 

When they just screw up your abiltiies by presence... fun. Their fight style is cool, yeah, but this is just another usual unit with few cheap tricks.

 

Nullifiers can be focused (you can see 'em from ~50 meters, because of bubble), you can take down their shields, using proper weapons and make good zoning if you are melee, while new disruptor units can be taken down by just few shots. Nothing else. Nothing new.

 

Ospreys are easy to notice if you actually try looking for 'em (they fly above), their bombs get so much time to arm and you can shoot down those bombs. But you need to look for 'em, need to aim, need to jump (to avoid damage) and that's what makes 'em interesting.

 

But no, aiming is too hard. I can't sit and win in one place, so they should be changed.

Good lord did you have to go there? There is a line between difficulty and anti-fun, Sapping Osprey cross that line. My suggestion for removing the Nullification AoE from Nullifiers is not intended as a nerf, but more as a way to distribute the power amongst the Corpus.

 

And you can't jump over Sapping Osprey bubbles, they are a spherical AoE not ground based (another issue with them because you don't know where it is safe to jump, this would actually be a good nerf for Sapping Osprey if the damage was kept, don't let them damage you in the air).

 

Was the "git gud" comment really necessary? Come on now, we all know that adds nothing to a discussion. Did you actually read the suggestion? It in no way makes "standing still" easier, if anything this will encourage more movement (because honestly Sapping Osprey are a joke at lower level, now they will have a purpose at all levels of play).

 

The only change I would do to sapping ospreys is capping the amount of them on certain rooms and/or remove the capability to stack multiple sappers on the same area, increasing the denied area but avoiding them to stack ridiculous amounts of damage in the same small radius.

About nullifiers, they are fine, I'd just give back bubble reduction based on damage, making slow weapons as viable against them as the automatic rifles currently are.

We have lots of cheap tactics, let the corpus have their own

Removing the damage cap from Nullifiers would make them easy mode, I am not a fan of them but the mechanic is sound IMO.

 

I hate them too, but they do feel kinda fitting. Corpus are quite squishy compared ot Grineer after all.

Ignoring Sapping Osprey the Corpus already have a massive DPS advantage over Grineer, those Corpus Techs are rediculous (in a good way).

[(PSN)Folkeye]

theres no counterplay to ospreys except to kill them before they drop their balls. once they do drop  a ball, you cant destroy it until it gets  a pulse off, and most of the time, that means its too late and you should have just gtfo of the area

 

Kubrows mistake those balls as play toys and run right into each and every field they find. Insta death. Kept happening to a friend last night. He had a mid level kubrow he was leveling up and we were fighting Corpus. Amazing how many ospreys there were that instantly dropped the field. Within 5 seconds, each time, kubrow died. So that was frustrating, especially with overlapping fields and a pile of enemies.

[(PSN)Mazda_07_]

Nothing wrong with a challenge people . Jesus they are there so you don't instantly obliterate the enemy before they even get close enough to do any damage .there is a difference from cheap tactics and effective tactics Nellie's are effective end of story . They aren't really a problem until after level 150s honestly and by then the enemy SHOULD give you a hard time .

[(PSN)wonderwoman814]

What you guys need to understand is that nullies are so that the player cant just instantly kill the enemy before they get into sight. Or at least i thought that was their purpose. ospreys on the other hand yeah i can agree with that to a point. but nullies is what keeps you on your toes along with bombards.  nerf that accuracy though lol. Anyway You shouldn't depend on your powers only to get  you through a mission.

Edited December 24, 2015 by (PS4)wonderwoman814

[alergiclaprosti]

You can see the affected area....

You can smash the nullifier's bubble from the distance...

The sapper thumper starts as a projectile that can be stopped/redirected...

Nullifier uses Lanka..... there is a travel time on the projectile....

 

 

Learn how to adapt your equipment to suit the mission you enter.

 

 

 

Stop crying like a baby, stop taking for granted what the PROs say is good than start thinking about what you can do with your vast arsenal.

[DrBorris]

What you guys need to understand is that nullies are so that the player cant just instantly kill the enemy before they get into sight. Or at least i thought that was their purpose. ospreys on the other hand yeah i can agree with that to a point. but nullies is what keeps you on your toes along with bombards.  nerf that accuracy though lol. Anyway You shouldn't depend on your powers only to get  you through a mission.

Well... if you read the OP you would see that Nullifier bubbles would act exactly the same as they do now when outside the bubble, the only difference is that your power are not canceled when you get inside the bubble.

 

You can see the affected area....

You can smash the nullifier's bubble from the distance...

The sapper thumper starts as a projectile that can be stopped/redirected...

Nullifier uses Lanka..... there is a travel time on the projectile....

 

 

Learn how to adapt your equipment to suit the mission you enter.

 

 

 

Stop crying like a baby, stop taking for granted what the PROs say is good than start thinking about what you can do with your vast arsenal.

"Git gud" Post #2

(and you can't see the entire affected area of a Sapping Osprey, the range is a sphere but the FX is only a ground circle)

Again, there is a line between difficulty and fun. I am not saying they are too difficult but rather difficult in the wrong way. Thanks for your valuable input however. The "Nerf" proposed in the OP is less "nerf", more "rework" (you know, those things they do to Warframes). Having an enemy that spams AoE balls of insta-death everywhere is not "fun" because, as someone commented earlier, it does not allow for counter play. If the sphere only nullifies your abilities it will still be extremely powerful, but not in a way that increases the player's blood pressure.

Edited December 24, 2015 by DrBorris

[(PSN)VariantX7]

Sapping Osprey plus nullifiers.Get ogris and put them down fast or u be sorry.I think i like them as they are:D

Didn't DE just make it so AoE explosive weapons can no longer kill Nullifiers in their bubbles anymore?

[EvilChaosKnight]

Didn't DE just make it so AoE explosive weapons can no longer kill Nullifiers in their bubbles anymore?

Yep, they did just that.

[Chipputer]

This rework seems reasonable. I've had my eye on a way to make nullifiers a bit more well designed and fun without making them useless.

 

I would agree more with making the mines deal damage and have an actual visible AoE rather than making two units effectively both act as nullifiers, but I could live with it the way you're suggesting it, as well.

[HardcoreSalmon]

DE, rebalance nullifiers? Doubt it.

[UrbanShade]

Totally agreed with suggested rework.

When Nullies was released, i was afraid and happy in same time. Afraid of them and happy, that i can even play other maps than cerberus for lvling stuff and syndicate standing.

But when i met nullies, i was totally dissapointed. they are just op. on lower levels this arent noticeble, but on higher ones it is. Even after some nerfs from devs they just powerfull, especially in conjuction with other enemies, espcially in Void.

if this enemies are designed to counter our powers, why they deal so MUCH damage? give them smth other, not lanka. Their existe to counter abilities, not to deal damage. give them spectra or smth like it, unbuffed. let em deal little damage. or give us ability to pierce their bubbles or destroy em faster. shotguns, bows, launchers - all this categories (except high magazine shotguns) are pretty bad at this. U even nerfed our ability to kill em inside their bubble with aot stuff, like glaive explosion, penta, etc. Give us effective countermeasure against them. Or just make their bubbles much less, so they cant contain 3 heavy gunners and 3 bombars with couple of ancients. And also, dear DEvs, NEVER MAKE them arctic. Its such wrong move

[aegof]

Nullifiers are fine, and good, additions to the game.  They make a few playstyles more difficult, but that's fine.

 

The Sapping Osprey is either a non-factor or the most dangerous thing on the field, depending on level.  That recent corpus interception sortie made their strengths really clear.  In large numbers, in close quarters, at high levels, they're incredibly dangerous--perhaps more than intended.  They're excellent examples of the scaling issues that every enemy in the game is affected by.