The new warframe issue

[Waterbeacon]

So this only really includes Revenant and Korah but with the ongoing pattern it might effect Garuda as well. The two latest warframe have been disappointingly mediocre, Revenant was "good" for the first few days and I still really like him but each of the new frames is looking to be either weak or nerfed pointlessly and have any potential snatched away from them. For example

Khora: her 1 is a watered down corinth and Virulence. Her 2 is a watered down larva and her 4 is a confusing basteele. She was going to have a cool exhaled whip but nope that's not a thing. 

Revenant: his 1 is just pointless and the pillers are so weak and small they made Vaubans tesla look strong. His 2 is fine but there is really no point using it over ironskin. His 3 is his only ability that is better then the one it copied (tidal surge) but is still annoying and clunky. His 4 was his only saving grace but nope not anymore, just use mesa instead and not to mention his passive that makes no sense in the context of the rest of his kit. 

We can only hope that Garuda will be good but hey looking at this pattern she might just be a watered down Valkyr that is even harder to get. 

I'm just kinda frustrated because each of these frames has potential witch was swiftly taken away. 

[Noibat]

The amount of people who think Khora and Rev are actually bad frames is staggering. 

 

Wanna fix some frames? Ember,  Wukong and Titania are in much worse positions. 

 

Khora and Rev are fine. 

[FallenDemonX]

hace 15 minutos, Noibat dijo:

The amount of people who think Khora and Rev are actually bad frames is staggering. 

 

Wanna fix some frames? Ember,  Wukong and Titania are in much worse positions. 

 

Khora and Rev are fine. 

Everyone saying Titania is bad. Why? I mean, I can see how she isnt the best or most reliable, but bad? Cant say I understand.

 

I personally dont think Khora is bad, her abilities are pretty fun and interesting. Rev is fine but kinda mediocre design-wise, nothing different or intersting really other than maybe managing your shields to spam passive. He is also very unfocused.when it comes to a gameplay fantasy. 

[tripletriple]

28 minutes ago, Noibat said:

The amount of people who think Khora and Rev are actually bad frames is staggering. 

 

Wanna fix some frames? Ember,  Wukong and Titania are in much worse positions. 

 

Khora and Rev are fine. 

They are bad warframes, they are not fine. They don't do anything that other warframes don't do much better.

Edited September 2, 2018 by tripletriple

[Trichouette]

il y a 17 minutes, FallenDemonX a dit :

Everyone saying Titania is bad. Why? I mean, I can see how she isnt the best or most reliable, but bad? Cant say I understand.

Because most of her kit is useless beside her 4 ?

il y a 37 minutes, Noibat a dit :

The amount of people who think Khora and Rev are actually bad frames is staggering. 

I don't see how these are any good.

Revenant has a gimmick that is far from rewarding considering how lame it is to pull off.

Overshield is useless and we all know that since it was introduced, and yet DE still tries to use that (and in tiny quantity, even stupider).

If it wasn't for the spin2win ability (which looks stupid), revenant would be the most pointless frame of them all.

il y a 41 minutes, Waterbeacon a dit :

She was going to have a cool exhaled whip but nope that's not a thing.  

Oh yeah it's so cool to have a whole ability that is just... a melee weapon but stronger.

Edited September 2, 2018 by Trichouette

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

3 hours ago, Noibat said:

Khora and Rev are fine. 

Revenant is not fine. Khora is fine but Rev is not

[Erytroxylin]

It's not that Revenant is a *bad* frame. I just don't see any reason to use him over any of my other already established frames. Shields are weak for defensive purposes, he doesn't have very good defense built in, his sustain is really clunky to use, and now his best offensive skill is nerfed.

He's still 100% useable, just not desireable.

[Slaughterdance]

Actually I dont really consider Rev and Khora bad, people just complain most of the time cuz they wanna be able to solo each and every goddamn level with each frame but while Saryn already steals the show damagewise in levels where enemies spawn amd spawn and keep spawning... its still a little bit niche. Even then alot of people tend to leave cuz they got nothing to do. Thoug her survivability aint that great so she relies on other frames just as much. The point about Rev is, he can basically lockdown areas, make life a little easier for other players... when not played as greedy as people would like to. His 2 makes him nigh untouchable, just the casting speed is staggering and I'd like not having to waste modslots just for a little less time to cast that Skill. For Khora... well, her 4 sure seems like a less attractive Bastille but she can lock down areas just as well and considering people love to melee the s**t outta each level... her 1 scales pretty nicely I think. Also Venari is pretty usefull for survival and even supporting other players.

 

Remember, it's still a co-op experience, not 'Warfame' where only most enemies killed or most damage done counts. Sure there is a 'best' Frame for everything but its what people make out of it... not what could be. Plus Khora and Rev dont even have Augments yet and just think of those frames who really got their fair share of usability just because of those.

[Waterbeacon]

1 hour ago, Noibat said:

The amount of people who think Khora and Rev are actually bad frames is staggering. 

 

Wanna fix some frames? Ember,  Wukong and Titania are in much worse positions. 

 

Khora and Rev are fine. 

I was not taking about those frames, they are bad and are in need of fixing but I'm pointing out the current concerning pattern.

Also Wukong can't die

Edited September 2, 2018 by Waterbeacon

[Waterbeacon]

5 minutes ago, Slaughterdance said:

Actually I dont really consider Rev and Khora bad, people just complain most of the time cuz they wanna be able to solo each and every goddamn level with each frame 

Khora does do best in a group setting but Revenants kit leans more towards solo play. My issue with Khora is that there is no reason to bring her over other Cc frames and my issue with Revenant is that now it feels like DE is trying to stop a frame built for solo play from doing well in solo play

[(XBOX)TheMadCash]

One thing players have to absolutely stop doing is comparing frames. Because then you’ll never be satisfied. To address the frame myself. Khora is fine. My only issue with her is her 4th seems like a last minute idea. I see no point of using It over her 2 in my opinion. 

As for Revenant. I feel as tho DE kinda screwed over what could’ve been a great frame. The vampire theme easily could’ve just been a frame by itself. Also I think DE needs to look into enemies inflicting dmg on themselves before incorporating that into frames. Damage number needs to be adjusted when inflicting dmg on to themselves. Should be no reason why they can hit us hard and barely damage each other. 

There was plenty of fan made ideas for Revenant that players made and made him use full Eidolon abilities and kept his theme. Some was really good and DE got inspired by absolutely nothing. 

[xveganrox]

48 minutes ago, Noibat said:

The amount of people who think Khora and Rev are actually bad frames is staggering. 

 

Wanna fix some frames? Ember,  Wukong and Titania are in much worse positions. 

 

Khora and Rev are fine. 

At least those three are good at something. Ember’s perfect for running alerts while still getting focus, Wukong is boring and offers no support but has that whole “be invincible forever” thing going for him, and... Titania? Did you mean Nezha? Titania’s probably in the top 3-5 frames now in just about every category, meta AF, so I assume you meant someone else.

Khora has a niche, although she could use some tuning for sure, since it’s extremely niche. Revenant’s got... pretty much nothing: a hybrid of Nyx’s worst ability and a Nekros ability, a horrifically nerfed Rhino Skin, a mediocre 75 energy self-heal, and his 4 - a room clearer that got nerfed. Are there frames that offer less? Sure, a few. He just got released, though, so it’s only natural that people are expecting him to be at least average.

[(XBOX)TheMadCash]

8 minutes ago, Waterbeacon said:

 

Also Wukong can't die

Unless he get hit with a magnetic proc & gets his energy zapped or gets nullified. Or if that one corpus enemy gets too close (the one that cancels abilities and prevent you from using em)

He can die

[Madway7]

29 minutes ago, (XB1)Cash201293 said:

One thing players have to absolutely stop doing is comparing frames. Because then you’ll never be satisfied.  

It's inevitable, warframes all share the same space and just like weapons people will compare them to one another.

I get what you are saying and I agree to an extent, but it is valid. Warframes are products that are dangled in front of us and asks us to use our time investing and playing with them, it boils down heavy to opinion afterwards whether or not they are fun or even good in some cases, but they are all competing for the same slot when we select what we choose for each mission. And thus are comparable.

Eventually I see a problem. I saw it coming quite a long time ago. Having a game built around doing the same things over and over and constantly adding new means to do those same things over and over means that eventually ideas are going to clash heavily over time.

With DE seeming... reluctant? To revisit older frames, new ones will take away whatever niches they had going for them oved time.

Eventually too many frames will be comparable. Sure there are a ton of sound and visual fx they can use to make the frames stand out besides their design, the abilities will get harder and harder to make different.

Melee weapons suffer because they are comparable to other weapons within the same class. (War vs Galatine Prime) and so warframes will constantly compete for different roles in the relatively few mission types we have. (The ones people actually care about doing over and over)

 

40 minutes ago, (XB1)Cash201293 said:

As for Revenant. I feel as tho DE kinda screwed over what could’ve been a great frame. The vampire theme easily could’ve just been a frame by itself. Also I think DE needs to look into enemies inflicting dmg on themselves before incorporating that into frames. Damage number needs to be adjusted when inflicting dmg on to themselves. Should be no reason why they can hit us hard and barely damage each other. 

There was plenty of fan made ideas for Revenant that players made and made him use full Eidolon abilities and kept his theme. Some was really good and DE got inspired by absolutely nothing. 

I completely agree with this tho 

[TalonBlue]

2 hours ago, Noibat said:

The amount of people who think Khora and Rev are actually bad frames is staggering. 

 

Wanna fix some frames? Ember,  Wukong and Titania are in much worse positions. 

 

Khora and Rev are fine. 

I think I'd rather play with my Wukong. I can play with a frame that just doesn't die compared to the useless Revenant. I'll admit Khora is decent frame, other frames do her job better, but she is useful...once you've sunk 10+ forma into it, which frankly I'm not going to do. The new frames are frankly disappointing.

[LupisV0lk]

3 hours ago, Noibat said:

The amount of people who think Khora and Rev are actually bad frames is staggering. 

 

Wanna fix some frames? Ember,  Wukong and Titania are in much worse positions. 

 

Khora and Rev are fine. 

Yeah i personally blame the Warframe Community contributors . Just look at the "mag is bad meme"

[_Urakaze_]

what the

Khora 1 is good cuz it SCALES and the AoE is pretty large

2 is better than larva because you can headshot enemy and it can be recasted or propagate to other enemy using her 1

3 is uhhh... well at least it heals you

4 is alright as a CC ability, but I kinda hate the swinging enemies

[(PSN)watt4hem]

Newer frames have Identity issues imo. They don't know what they want to be, even someone like atlas is still solid. 

[Brorelia]

The game has enough frames where coming up with a new niche that frames can fill is proving to be harder and harder to do.

Sure more themes can be found but why use a shadow frame that renders enemies unable to see when Excal can use radial blind and then cut them down with exalted blade?

There is always going to be a best one when there are 2 or 3 that do nearly the same thing. The only way to really get past this is by having several different niche that frames are good for and others are not but DE has higher priority things to be doing with the resources they have.

Edited September 2, 2018 by Brorelia

[GnarlsDarkley]

5 hours ago, Waterbeacon said:

She was going to have a cool exhaled whip but nope that's not a thing

Yup, I would totally have her an exalted too.

6 Forma the Frame, 6 Forma Venari and another 4 Forma her EW? 

Thats why she is one of the worst frames in my eyes. Everything she can do, I can do better with frames requiring way less Forma

[Noibat]

4 hours ago, FallenDemonX said:

Everyone saying Titania is bad. Why? I mean, I can see how she isnt the best or most reliable, but bad? Cant say I understand.

Lemme clarify- I LOVE Titania,  and I have played her almost exclusively since I've gotten her.  But not because she's balanced- because she's  pure fun.  Her 4 is her only good skill, but it's  PHENOMENAL.  Both of her CC abilities [if you can call Spellbind a CC] are absolutely abysmal, sending enemies flying across the map,  floating aimlessly and disrupting the flow of missions. Her buff skill is terrible,  probably her worst one.. Not only do you have to cast each one for one stack of one particular buff,  but you have to memorize which enemies give which buffs,  and of the 4 possible buffs,  only Dust is worth using at all.  She really needs a rework.  Her only saving grace is in Razorwing. 

3 hours ago, xveganrox said:

-snip

Yeah,  no,  definitely didn't  mean Nezha. Nezha is Rhino, but better. 

 

Titania is not 'Meta AF', she just has one incredibly outstanding skill and 3 entirely useless ones.  See above. Wukong can't die... Great,  so he can be mediocre indefinitely. Awesome. 

 

As for Ember,  if you're  really relegating a frame's entire purpose to running alerts,  that's proof enough of how bad they hit her.  Meanwhile Volt can clear entire maps,  buff the team,  CC,  and shield all at the same time.  Ember can..  Kill low level enemies within 15m?

 

 

[Waterbeacon]

6 hours ago, (XB1)Cash201293 said:

One thing players have to absolutely stop doing is comparing frames. Because then you’ll never be satisfied.

No. Comparing frames is simply part of the game, why use one frame when another one is better? There is no point simply pretending that all frames are equal simply so people can act satisfied with the current state of those weak frames

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Pablo (who made Nidus and Harrow and made our lovely new saryn) is working on Garuda. He did not work on Khora or Rev. Garuda will be fine, Pablo knows what he’s doing.

[GenthReborn]

I got no problem with their "power", I've just felt Khora and Rev haven't had a clear theme to me. Khora has Spider Stuff, and then Venari. Rev has a kludge of abilities that seem to come from completely different places. I just hope Garuda has a more clear theme and 'feel'. The lack of it doesn't ruin Khora for me, I actually really like playing her but I see nothin in Rev that I want to play with, personally.

[AJ5511]

1 minute ago, GenthReborn said:

I've just felt Khora and Rev haven't had a clear theme to me. Khora has Spider Stuff, and then Venari

I actually think that Khora has a theme: she's a hunter. And.... get ready for your mind to be blown.... Simmaris (the guy who basically made this frame) calls the tenno hunters. so, having a hunter themed warframe from sanctuary onslaught makes complete sense.