Chroma needs a rework

[(XBOX)ultamite hero]

3 minutes ago, Conflux59 said:

This^

And that *ticks per second* would take them 5 minutes to change.  It's not asking for much, in fact it's like asking for the table scraps after everyone else has eaten the good stuff, but it would help keep us alive and allow the move to do more than clean up enemies level 30 and below with Vex armor up.

Beam/cone/fan/acid rain etc etc would be awesome imo.

Is it just me that would appreciate when there's a push for something that ends up being 44+ pages... DE would pop in and say ...  o/  hey all, we appreciate your passion and love for Chroma, we're busy with X Y and Z right now but fear not, changes will come.  or.. something along those lines.

or does it need to reach like 100 pages or something to be considered a legit outcry?

We need a ton more pages to convince DE to put chroma on the list.

[Conflux59]

Challenge Accepted.

I'm in

[AtsiaZ]

41 minutes ago, Conflux59 said:

This^

And that *ticks per second* would take them 5 minutes to change.  It's not asking for much, in fact it's like asking for the table scraps after everyone else has eaten the good stuff, but it would help keep us alive and allow the move to do more than clean up enemies level 30 and below with Vex armor up.

Beam/cone/fan/acid rain etc etc would be awesome imo.

Is it just me that would appreciate when there's a push for something that ends up being 44+ pages... DE would pop in and say ...  o/  hey all, we appreciate your passion and love for Chroma, we're busy with X Y and Z right now but fear not, changes will come.  or.. something along those lines.

or does it need to reach like 100 pages or something to be considered a legit outcry?

I mean, they already have said that they know he needs/we want a rework, they're just not working on it/have no plans for it right now. Hell, that was an instigator of this entire megathread in the first place

[ZodiacShinryu]

15 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

excuse me but didn't you see the "not me argue about elemental swapping again"?  because i was arguing about the need of keeping the color gimmick because if it goes then whats stopping them from doing something  that ends up make a frame out of character? i am trying to make a round about way to save the overall theme of chroma as a whole while keeping the fahsion framers from bleeping while having that chance at elemental swapping yet you are trying to argue with me over it? this is why i hated elemental swapping in the first place, were i wanted something about chroma kept yet someone reacts negatively when i say i wanted to keep it.

I wasn't negative (intentionally anyway) and I didn't miss your statement.

You brought up false advertisement so I clarified it. My point was that "false advertisement" is brought up a lot (in general by people) but DE really isn't in any real legal jeopardy as long as you can't directly buy Chroma for money (and you can't because you have to buy platinum first) and Chroma Prime actually doesn't mention "color" in any of the Prime Access material. Along with the over arching "Beta" tag. They can honor things by not doing anything but they are free to do as they wish otherwise.

Then I gave you my thoughts on your idea. It had nothing to do with swapping at base. I personally just think it is a waste of time and effort to make a system to support a gimmick that doesn't actually matter in the grand scheme of things as things are now. Especially if the end result of this new system is something that could be accomplished by just picking the element separate from the color. Then I expanded on it by saying it would actually work better with swapping (because it would) because then you not only pick a color to attach the elements to but it would operate to have those colors be set for the swap for basically full customization of the system as the player pleases. So it keeps the "color" theme for an actual benefit.

The last two paragraphs were not really about swapping (though it was certainly seeping in) as much as I didn't particularly like the logic behind your statements. I honestly don't know what "fullest" means to you, it part of the reason I suggested you flesh that out for people. My problem is that what does DE do to not only make Chroma utilize his elements that doesn't just make him a similar (or lesser) version of the other 4 specialists but with a powerful neutral buff? Nezha also contributes to the problem being that is just another fire based frame taking up space for distinct gameplay. And then people in general will almost always get a red flag from me when speaking about "intentional" in matters they are not directly a part of. "Intent" and "reality" can often conflict based on the circumstance, so it is something only the designers could answer.

[--NightFury--]

I'd make Chroma's 1 much wider, longer, stronger breath with much more visual FX and utility and swap it with his 4th ability. His effigy would be his 1st ability with slightly reduced health and drastically reduced energy consumption.

[(PSN)ALPHA-DEDALUS]

I love chroma. One of my favorite frames. I even have his prime. BUT. He needs something new, something useful or fun. I feel like his Spectral Scream is underpowered and maybe in turn we can get rid of it for a new ability? I had an idea. Maybe it could be replaced by an ability I came up with called "Sentinel". You can grow wings and hover up and down with extra armour and and increased weapon damage.

[(XBOX)Kaldwin1571]

11 hours ago, (XB1)ultamite hero said:

We need a ton more pages to convince DE to put chroma on the list.

So... Let the spam starts

[Conflux59]

There's so many good ideas in this thread.  Even if some of these ideas and suggestions wouldn't be my personal first choice... I'd honestly say the extreme majority are worlds better than where he currently is.

[AtsiaZ]

There's already a megathread for this, and it's already been said chroma is way back in line for a rework compared to ones that really need it, Nyx, Wukong, Vauban, etc.

[(XBOX)Avant Solace]

NOTE: This is not a major rework suggestion. This is merely a concept for slight adjustments to how Chroma's abilities activate. This does not involve anything meticulous such as damage values or scaling.

So Chroma, to me, is a fun frame to use. He can excel at both offensive and defensive roles. While his abilities could be reviewed, they overall work very well. They main flaw I found with him was not the abilities themselves but by how they are operated. Allow me to explain:

Spectral Scream: Currently it is a channeling ability. I honestly think it'd work better as an instant/charge attack similar to Hydroid's Tempest Barrage. This would reflect how it is a "breath" attack requiring a pause to inhale and deeper breaths giving greater output.

Elemental Ward: Currently a timed ability. Should become a "battery" ability like Rhino's Iron Skin. It will be given a finite health pool that is deducted based on the amount of damage it gives/receives.

Vex Armor: Currently a timed ability. Should become a channeling ability. Initially it would have a minimal channeling cost, but will grow in cost as its values reach their maximum. Likewise it could have a simple consistent cost that only drains energy so long as it is on.

 

Thoughts?

Edited October 11, 2018 by (XB1)alchemPyro
Better explanations

[NightmareT12]

24 minutes ago, (XB1)alchemPyro said:

NOTE: This is not a major rework suggestion. This is merely a concept for slight adjustments to how Chroma's abilities activate. This does not involve anything meticulous such as damage values or scaling. 

So Chroma, to me, is a fun frame to use. He can excel at both offensive and defensive roles. While his abilities could be reviewed, they overall work very well. They main flaw I found with him was not the abilities themselves but by how they are operated. Allow me to explain:

Spectral Scream: Currently it is a channeling ability. I honestly think it'd work better as an instant/charge attack similar to Hydroid's Tempest Barrage. This would reflect how it is a "breath" attack requiring a pause to inhale and deeper breaths giving greater output. 

Elemental Ward: Currently a timed ability. Should become a "battery" ability like Rhino's Iron Skin. After absorbing/dealing a set amount of damage the Ward gradually loses health before finishing. 

Vex Armor: Currently a timed ability. Should become a channeling ability. Initially it would have a minimal channeling cost, but will grow in cost as its values reach their maximum. 

 

Thoughts?

Well, to keep it short I think Spectral Scream has potential, but the Ward and Vex changes don't. Reason is Chroma is a very energy hungry frame and having Vex as a channeled ability means having to stop its bonuses, while currently you can refresh them at a way minor cost thanks to Duration (even if you have little efficiency).

Ward's timer is designed to go alongside Vex Armor too, so I don't think it'd be a good idea to change it either.

[(XBOX)Avant Solace]

20 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

Well, to keep it short I think Spectral Scream has potential, but the Ward and Vex changes don't. Reason is Chroma is a very energy hungry frame and having Vex as a channeled ability means having to stop its bonuses, while currently you can refresh them at a way minor cost thanks to Duration (even if you have little efficiency).

Ward's timer is designed to go alongside Vex Armor too, so I don't think it'd be a good idea to change it either.

I see what you're saying, but ultimately I have to disagree. To me Chroma is trying to be a sort of "Tactical Berserker". His 2 and 3 are basically designed to provide various buffs while simultaneously punishing enemies that attack and/or get too close. The only thing holding him back is that you frequently have to pause and reapply his 2 and 3 at scheduled intervals. If you miss those intervals you lose any accumulated buffs and also become vulnerable. This turns a fun ride of mayhem into a chore. My idea is basically to simply remove that "chore" aspect by making his abilities something you only have to periodically peek at and switch to.

[maddragonmaster]

13 hours ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

I wasn't negative (intentionally anyway) and I didn't miss your statement.

You brought up false advertisement so I clarified it. My point was that "false advertisement" is brought up a lot (in general by people) but DE really isn't in any real legal jeopardy as long as you can't directly buy Chroma for money (and you can't because you have to buy platinum first) and Chroma Prime actually doesn't mention "color" in any of the Prime Access material. Along with the over arching "Beta" tag. They can honor things by not doing anything but they are free to do as they wish otherwise.

Then I gave you my thoughts on your idea. It had nothing to do with swapping at base. I personally just think it is a waste of time and effort to make a system to support a gimmick that doesn't actually matter in the grand scheme of things as things are now. Especially if the end result of this new system is something that could be accomplished by just picking the element separate from the color. Then I expanded on it by saying it would actually work better with swapping (because it would) because then you not only pick a color to attach the elements to but it would operate to have those colors be set for the swap for basically full customization of the system as the player pleases. So it keeps the "color" theme for an actual benefit.

The last two paragraphs were not really about swapping (though it was certainly seeping in) as much as I didn't particularly like the logic behind your statements. I honestly don't know what "fullest" means to you, it part of the reason I suggested you flesh that out for people. My problem is that what does DE do to not only make Chroma utilize his elements that doesn't just make him a similar (or lesser) version of the other 4 specialists but with a powerful neutral buff? Nezha also contributes to the problem being that is just another fire based frame taking up space for distinct gameplay. And then people in general will almost always get a red flag from me when speaking about "intentional" in matters they are not directly a part of. "Intent" and "reality" can often conflict based on the circumstance, so it is something only the designers could answer.

fair point about the false advertisement but also the prime access didn't mention master of elements either though it did say master of ruin. so my opinion is that maybe he needs a more offensive tank like build. \

and the reason i put up the idea of having control over witch element is affected by which color is because chroma is unique in the fact that his energy color affects his element and i rather not have his part of chroma taken away and replaced with just "choose which element to start off" option because i feel this would take away from his personality. so i came up with the idea due to the fact that octavia players have to wast time to effectively create music so why not do it that way? heck  fashion framers allready take time messing with their frames to color them just right so why not just have them take some time to personalize how their energy color triggers which element.

and the way i  define a master of elements is not by how much elements they can use at a time but by what they can do with the element. sure ember, and sayrin could be argued to be masters of fire and toxin but do they normally do anything besides pump out a ton of their elements? while i could consider frost and volt as true elemental masters because of the fact that  frost can craft a frost dome out of his ice powers while volt can create a barrier of electricity. but the defined factor i can see in chroma being a master of elements is not by the use of all of them in a mission but the fact he can create a buff out of that element. i mean if you can boost your health with a fire element then that has some serious talent. or increase durability with the ice element, enhance shields with electricity, or get viper like reflexes with toxin and reload fast. its just these small facts are a little bit small, needs a bit of work to shine and thats good.

ps i feel some of the reason some of my explanations are coming a little bit off is due to the fact i am awful at getting my point across i am afraid. after all i have to google the correct spelling of some of the words i am trying to use.

Edited October 10, 2018 by maddragonmaster

[AtsiaZ]

I'm with Nightmare, the scream change has promise, and maybe the Ward change if the new charge mechanics are explained well, but turning Vex into a channeled ability seems way more of a nerf to it's upkeep. They only really change I could see for it if the values were buffed but making it channeled (and a growing drain at that) would be a terribe hit.

[(XBOX)Avant Solace]

10 minutes ago, Atsia said:

I'm with Nightmare, the scream change has promise, and maybe the Ward change if the new charge mechanics are explained well, but turning Vex into a channeled ability seems way more of a nerf to it's upkeep. They only really change I could see for it if the values were buffed but making it channeled (and a growing drain at that) would be a terribe hit.

I said I wasn't going to involve math, but I at least should make a fair case. Vex Armor, unmodded and max rank, lasts for 25 seconds with a casting cost of 75 energy. Basically it costs 3 units of energy per 1 second of Vex.

Basically what I'm saying is instead of spending 75 energy every 25 seconds, Chroma instead passively spends 3 energy a second. I know I said it should grow from little to a lot, but that's mainly because DE has been reworking several channeling abilities to do this already. I'd personally prefer a consistent 3 energy/second channel.

[ZodiacShinryu]

1 hour ago, maddragonmaster said:

so i came up with the idea due to the fact that octavia players have to wast time to effectively create music so why not do it that way? heck  fashion framers allready take time messing with their frames to color them just right so why not just have them take some time to personalize how their energy color triggers which element.

Fair enough. I suppose its similar in some ways. Though I also have certain gripes with how the manichord functions also, where in it doesn't reward you for making a coherent beat as much as it just making noise to max out your effects.

2 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

i mean if you can boost your health with a fire element then that has some serious talent. or increase durability with the ice element, enhance shields with electricity, or get viper like reflexes with toxin and reload fast. its just these small facts are a little bit small, needs a bit of work to shine and thats good.

I am going to try to probe for more information for what a "bit of work" actually means to you. Other than Cold needs a new gimmick and Elect needs a mechanic to regen small amounts of shields and Toxin could use more utility (I personally like increased status chance or increased melee speed and casting speed as well with the current buffs), Chroma's Wards don't particularly need statistical buffs as they are in an okay spot. I mean my favorite Heat build has 1450ish Health with 1000% Fury and 1250% Scorn. He really doesn't need more than that. However (and this is where my swapping desire comes in), with what the Wards currently are and even with those small improvements, I don't think its powerful enough to reject a swap mechanism, especially if you replace the Ward buff of the element you had with the new one you swap to (aka you can't have Heat Health and Cold Armor at the same time). If I was to be persuaded to having distinct elemental mechanic (as he is now) I would want something more grand from Wards. Not only to emphasize his Element prowess but to be distinct (both in form and play) from his counterparts; where he has Ember, Frost, Volt, and Saryn on one side and Rhino on the other.

Which is why I wanted to know what you wanted out of Ward to make him distinct.

2 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

the prime access didn't mention master of elements either though it did say master of ruin.

Well yes in the basic window that is true. If you look under the PA details you get this: =p

"Become the true elemental master with Chroma Prime. This legendary warrior comes with the formidable Rubico Prime sniper rifle, the monstrous two-handed Gram Prime and more!

Chroma Prime Access Features
Chroma Prime: The original lord of ruin. Elemental. Primal. Perfection.
Chroma Prime Glyphs: Embody Chroma Prime with these Prime Glyphs
Rubico Prime: For the hunter, the apex of the sniper's art; for the hunted, a gateway to the next life
Gram Prime: Born anew, the father of swords returns"

[maddragonmaster]

47 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

Fair enough. I suppose its similar in some ways. Though I also have certain gripes with how the manichord functions also, where in it doesn't reward you for making a coherent beat as much as it just making noise to max out your effects.

yeah i have to agree on that part with the mandicord as too many players just set if to were they can just abuse the 3rd ability for the buffs. it drives me nuts when i bump into a octavia that sounds like someone left a rock on a electric piano key and called that music.

47 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

I am going to try to probe for more information for what a "bit of work" actually means to you. Other than Cold needs a new gimmick and Elect needs a mechanic to regen small amounts of shields and Toxin could use more utility (I personally like increased status chance or increased melee speed and casting speed as well with the current buffs), Chroma's Wards don't particularly need statistical buffs as they are in an okay spot. I mean my favorite Heat build has 1450ish Health with 1000% Fury and 1250% Scorn. He really doesn't need more than that. However (and this is where my swapping desire comes in), with what the Wards currently are and even with those small improvements, I don't think its powerful enough to reject a swap mechanism, especially if you replace the Ward buff of the element you had with the new one you swap to (aka you can't have Heat Health and Cold Armor at the same time). If I was to be persuaded to having distinct elemental mechanic (as he is now) I would want something more grand from Wards. Not only to emphasize his Element prowess but to be distinct (both in form and play) from his counterparts; where he has Ember, Frost, Volt, and Saryn on one side and Rhino on the other.

Which is why I wanted to know what you wanted out of Ward to make him distinct.

in truth i i don't have any solid ideas as to emphasize his elemental prowess but i'll try.. though i just had an idea that might not be strong enough to reject the idea of elemental swapping and might be a little underwhelming since we already kill so many mobs to make this very useful but i was thinking what if spectral scream was made into a split into abilities spectral devour and spectral scream.

 ability spectral devour that devours the elemental energies around him and devour any elemental status effects on allies enemies while leaving the status effects on enemies and curing allies of their status element. and when spectral devour is done you will have a charge to expend on one of his 4 abilities enhancing that ability with what the collected elements primary being of his main element while having a decent chance of proc'ing what ever he absorbed. effects on spectral scream increased damage while having the ability to inflected other status' besides his currently focused element, effects on elemental ward increased boons on his ward while adding aditional effects like more health for heat, aditional armor for ice, more shields on electric, and more reload speed toxin ( or what ever sounds better for toxin) (also maybe add some bonus effects maybe for the combined elements). effects on vex armor add elements that were consumed to weapons while possibly help build up scion and fury quicker, effects on effigy maybe some average boost to the pelts survival ability while giving some other the ability to effect additional elemental procs.

on a side note i was thinking when effigy is out if you look at effigy and pres 2 key you comand effigy to release a similar elemental ward.

Edited October 11, 2018 by maddragonmaster

[ZodiacShinryu]

2 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

though i just had an idea that might not be strong enough to reject the idea of elemental swapping and might be a little underwhelming since we already kill so many mobs to make this very useful but i was thinking what if spectral scream was made into a split into abilities spectral devour and spectral scream.

Interesting idea that has synergy with the concept that Chroma should be throwing around status effects. Would synergize with the rest of his kit and play to a theme of turning devastation into more devastation while utilizing status to empower himself and support others. Would work better with Vex and Ward combined into one ability as well. Though you are right to say it is a little underwhelming simply because it is a basic form ability like Vex. It would work the same for every form thus a swap would still be eligible.

Let me throw out the example of another ability (should Ward and Vex be combined into one ability) I thought up in my thread that might better align Chroma to a single element, though I will say I'd still wish for the swap.

 

Quote

 

[3][2] Elemental Auspice: Chroma unleashes an elemental attack based on his current elemental alignment.

• Heat: Chroma spits out Magma in front of himself (perhaps conal). It deals heat damage on initial contact to enemy on cast and a Heat proc. The magma leaves a zone that that slows enemies that tread upon it as well as smaller Heat based DoT with low chances to proc heat panic. Zone Denial
• Cold: Chroma roars conjuring icicle spires to in a short distance (radial based on Chroma's position) around him to impale enemies (I imagined it looks like a thorny flower made of ice that surrounds him completely). The growth extends quickly outward from Chroma on all sides (even above) damaging everything in the radius while a short-lived stun-to-knockback/down as the icicles shatter. Enemies hit also have some armor destroyed (I was think like shattering impact). Short Range Punish
• Electric: Chroma rears back to charge a beam of electrical energy (perhaps opticor or synapse like). The beam travels along reticle aiming until reaching the environment where it will discharge radially. Chroma's movement speed increases by number of enemies hit. Long Range Nuke
• Toxin: Chroma releases a cloud of bile-ous toxin that persists in the area for a short duration. Enemies affected by the cloud receive a toxin based on the enemies max health and exhibit reduced accuracy for the duration. Moderate Scalable DoT

 

It does a lot, combined with Wards for buffs it provides a lot of different avenues for Chroma that might be too much together with a swap. It is about elemental focus and it is distinct from his competitors and provides him much needed utility and choice.

[maddragonmaster]

7 hours ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

Interesting idea that has synergy with the concept that Chroma should be throwing around status effects. Would synergize with the rest of his kit and play to a theme of turning devastation into more devastation while utilizing status to empower himself and support others. Would work better with Vex and Ward combined into one ability as well. Though you are right to say it is a little underwhelming simply because it is a basic form ability like Vex. It would work the same for every form thus a swap would still be eligible.

Let me throw out the example of another ability (should Ward and Vex be combined into one ability) I thought up in my thread that might better align Chroma to a single element, though I will say I'd still wish for the swap.

 

It does a lot, combined with Wards for buffs it provides a lot of different avenues for Chroma that might be too much together with a swap. It is about elemental focus and it is distinct from his competitors and provides him much needed utility and choice.

that idea is not that bad. well anyways i thought of the idea of spectral scream being affect by the starting energy color/elemental choice by having starting with heat gives you a classic fire breath, ice involves firing a giant ice spike like opticor or fire ice spikes like gatling gun, a beam for electricity maybe reacts like a atomos, and for toxin fire explosive globules of toxin that explode. 

on another note i just started to think of each side of chroma as what i feel makes sense to me, heat or fire chroma as a melee focused frame, ice chroma as a tank, electric chroma as ranged, and toxin chroma i have been thinking of either cc or in a ironic twist as a healer. though another way of thinking for toxin is to have toxin chroma for stealth but then that kind sound either op or stretching chromas capabilities. another side note though i dont care about being healer and i am mostly a fan of fire and heat elements i was thinking of seeing chroma emphasizing heat for healer, ice for tank, electric for dps, and toxin for stealth. and then again that would have chroma trying to cover too many bases to be effective unless DE doesn't mind making this mechanic op.

a revamped idea of the switching energy color priorities over which element mechanic where i imagine shows effigy by itself and the improvement would include access to the combination elements and in the it works is by linking 2 elements to the same primary color for example liking heat and cold to lets say red and yellow and to an extent orange. which would create blast chroma.which i am not sure how blast chroma would work, maybe have armor and health buffs while having blast effect trigger each time chroma is hit or if a melee focused mob attacks.

Edited October 11, 2018 by maddragonmaster

[fartloud]

he needs to be able to switch elements on the fly and all the elements have to be actually useful.

[maddragonmaster]

16 minutes ago, fartloud said:

he needs to be able to switch elements on the fly and all the elements have to be actually useful.

can you be a little more pacific as to what would be more useful? we already have many players demanding elemental switching but as fare as i know elemental switch while being the most demanded thing among players still wont help chroma out of his rut alone. plus making all the elements actually usefull is least pacific and doesn't convince me that will improve him either. 

so unless you have something to add in improving his ability kit that is besides elemental switching, and removing the nerf to vex armor then just leave.

Edited October 11, 2018 by maddragonmaster

[(XBOX)ultamite hero]

5 minutes ago, maddragonmaster said:

can you be a little more pacific as to what would be more useful? we already have many players demanding elemental switching but as fare as i know elemental switch while being the most demanded thing among players still wont help chroma out of his rut alone. plus making all the elements actually usefull is least pacific and doesn't convince me that will improve him either. 

so unless you have something to add in improving his ability kit that is besides elemental switching, and removing the nerf to vex armor then just leave.

He's giving feedback on what chroma may need. I would prefer for you not to scare off of players from giving suggestions just because of your principles of not wanting element swapping on chroma. After all we need all the players we can get giving feedback  and making more chroma rework post if we want to increase our chances of DE putting chroma on the list.

Besides element swapping although common in suggestions is not a bad suggestion.

[maddragonmaster]

13 minutes ago, (XB1)ultamite hero said:

He's giving feedback on what chroma may need. I would prefer for you not to scare off of players from giving suggestions just because of your principles of not wanting element swapping on chroma. After all we need all the players we can get giving feedback  and making more chroma rework post if we want to increase our chances of DE putting chroma on the list.

Besides element swapping although common in suggestions is not a bad suggestion.

yes your right we are allowed to give feedback but not being pacific about the suggest changes wont help anything. and no matter how many times players demand something it wont help DE eventually do it faster. honestly i don't care about elemental switching anymore as long as doesn't hamper any of his abilities, ruin any chances to make some abilities more funner, or that it doesn't end up being the main center of focus. as i don't want someone back set driving my play style telling me to go cold, heat, toxin, or electric. 

Edited October 11, 2018 by maddragonmaster

[(XBOX)ultamite hero]

34 minutes ago, maddragonmaster said:

as i don't want someone back set driving my play style telling me to go cold, heat, toxin, or electric. 

those people I would just ignore then. Especially if those people are just randoms in public missions. That's what I do when players in public missions expect me to use what they call the best setup and get mad at me for not going this or that setup.

[Conflux59]

49 minutes ago, (XB1)ultamite hero said:

He's giving feedback on what chroma may need. I would prefer for you not to scare off of players from giving suggestions just because of your principles of not wanting element swapping on chroma. After all we need all the players we can get giving feedback  and making more chroma rework post if we want to increase our chances of DE putting chroma on the list.

Besides element swapping although common in suggestions is not a bad suggestion.

Exactly^ 

Consider discussing the reasons behind your opinion instead of shutting someone down.  Engage in the back and forth discussion and understand that it's very okay to disagree... in the end we all want changes so working together is imperative

23 hours ago, Atsia said:

There's already a megathread for this, and it's already been said chroma is way back in line for a rework compared to ones that really need it, Nyx, Wukong, Vauban, etc.

May I politely ask if this info came from DE, and if it did, would you point me/us in the right direction as to where we can see or hear it for ourselves?