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Official Necro Ability Discussion

[DE]Megan

By [DE]Megan,
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ChaoticEdge

ChaoticEdge

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Yup

No

 

you agree with second dawn and grave digger which I don't see it fit well.  Grave digger isn't really sound speical, it sound like common robber, this is necro, not common thug.  Second dawn, that is sun going down second time.

 

"Conjure the dead" I prefer keep classic which I prefer that version instead second dawn.  We want keep tye style of necromancer style, not some kind of he be noon time being which that is Nova job.

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Bazools

Bazools

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Love the name, the concept and everything besides... Search the Dead. Come on, search the dead? For what!? I don't get it... loot!? Oh.. right... what loot!? When enemies die they drop stuff all around the place... i don't get it!! Can someone explain me Search the Dead!? Do they have potatoes hidden under their armor!? If that's the case keep it! :D

 

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Archwizard

Archwizard

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Can someone explain me Search the Dead!? 

I think the basic idea is that it's like an on-command Scavenger Aura that applies to ammo, energy and health orbs. STD's rare supporters have been hoping it means more money, materials and BPs but I highly doubt that would be the case unless the devs wanted to seriously make him a gimmicky looter class.

 

The irony of the ability is that it doesn't tie in at all with Necro's style. Yes, it's affiliated with the dead, and he's affiliated with the dead. Yes, he's a support class, and this is a utility. However, if he has an ability that grants health to anyone, it should be an available option for minions from his ultimate; thus far, NPCs can't use any of the items that would be dropped by Search the Dead. Even if they could, there'd be no way to tell them "go stack on this health orb".

 

Soul Punch and Terror Totem fit well enough into the playstyle. Soul Punch can be used to increase the damage targets take from your minions and allies, while Terror Totem can be manipulated to keep attention off of you. Summon minions, keep your head low and let them tear your foes apart. In this dynamic though, Search the Dead just doesn't fit.

Edited by Archwizard
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Rokusho66

Rokusho66

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I think the basic idea is that it's like an on-command Scavenger Aura that applies to ammo, energy and health orbs. STD's rare supporters have been hoping it means more money, materials and BPs but I highly doubt that would be the case unless the devs wanted to seriously make him a gimmicky looter class.

 

The irony of the ability is that it doesn't tie in at all with Necro's style. Yes, it's affiliated with the dead, and he's affiliated with the dead. Yes, he's a support class, and this is a utility. However, if he has an ability that grants health to anyone, it should be an available option for minions from his ultimate; thus far, NPCs can't use any of the items that would be dropped by Search the Dead. Even if they could, there'd be no way to tell them "go stack on this health orb".

 

Soul Punch and Terror Totem fit well enough into the playstyle. Soul Punch can be used to increase the damage targets take from your minions and allies, while Terror Totem can be manipulated to keep attention off of you. Summon minions, keep your head low and let them tear your foes apart. In this dynamic though, Search the Dead just doesn't fit.

 

 

agreed ability three is the only ability that truly doesn't feel like it doesn't belong.... its almost completely one sided about that and every one either wants it gone or as a mod... the rest think it will increase BP drop rates.... ppff yeah right and I am a purple dinosaur that gives out free saki for anyone who see a pumpkin....

 

increased mat drop rate.... maybe... MAYBE..... would be a little more plausible but that drop rate buff would have to be small it mite as well be non existant...

 

I don't even think its applied to dead enemies more likely you paint an enemy with the ability which effects the drops rates of say health orbs.... then when the enemy dies the game takes that drop rate buff into account. its the only way I could see it working considering how quickly bodies vanish unless you pin them to a wall with bolts or an arrow.

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Gripheon

Gripheon

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The lack of response is umm... concerning. 50+ pages of suggestions and ideas and no responses on at least more specific descriptions of the current abilities and/or a list of other options.

 

Id like to se the devs respond one in a while and evaluate concerns before this derails into a "i want this entire new set of abilities i made instead" or "do these abilities even relate to the frame?", or "is there a soul in warframe if so, why would robots be afraid of the totem?" and go off on a tangent about it.

no offence. lol

 

I do have CONCERNS though about the current abilities-

 

My concerns are that:

 

A: search the dead has very fiew implications and most likely wont be used, best find another option.

 

B: Clone the dead could have issues with scaling against higher tier enemies, maybe make them match the curent level at which they died, with some buffs on top of them.

 

C: the names are odd, there are some good suggestions in the previous posts.

 

D: " soul punch" most likely still wont be used. it would be useful if it could ragdoll heavies in addition to what it has now.

 

E: Clone the dead seems to be very similar to "Mind Control" which is a 75 energy ability for nyx, mabe replace #3ability with this and come up with a even cooler ult?

 

there are things i do like though...

 

Things i like:

 

A: The Frame looks badass nuff said about that.

 

B: terror totem uses fear instead of damage so it seems like a good utility even for T3 Defense. (Could use at least some damage or debuff though)

 

C: it has some potential for great implications in the future.

 

D: it is not seeming to be the FOTM with it current setup and overpower other frames that already exist. (im looking at you nova). it MIGHT though idk.

 

in my understanding it is a nice frame and i will definately use it instead of other options available IF it is capable and wont turn into another pre buff mag or volt... othewise it will be anothe benchwarmer. :(

Edited by xXZEROCSXx
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Archwizard

Archwizard

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A: search the dead has very fiew implications and most likely wont be used, best find another option.

 

B: Clone the dead could have issues with scaling against higher tier enemies, maybe make them match the curent level at which they died, with some buffs on top of them.

 

C: the names are odd, there are some good suggestions in the previous posts.

 

D: " soul punch" most likely still wont be used. it would be useful if it could ragdoll heavies in addition to what it has now.

 

E: Clone the dead seems to be very similar to "Mind Control" which is a 75 energy ability for nyx, mabe replace #3ability with this and come up with a even cooler ult?

 

A. Yes, most of us agree with the limited applications outside of Defenses and Survival. It was considered over an ability tentatively called Life Drain, the description of which I'm still unclear on. The developers have noted, as of the last community hot topic, that "Search the Dead" has received largely negative response.

 

B. It appears that it is designed to "raise the last X mobs killed", so it's most likely to scale to the level they were upon death. Bigger concerns tend to revolve around the fact that it states the mobs Necro himself has killed, raising issues of kill-stealing actively affecting performance.

 

C. All names have been repeatedly stated to be subject to change. Consider them placeholders.

 

D. I can think of some applications for it- higher level enemies (due to the debuff stacking and %-based damage being a useful opener), bosses, etc. I would like to see it be also usable as a pointer for minions raised by his ultimate, having their aggro towards an enemy be increased based on the number of stacks said enemy has, and just run rampant if no enemies nearby have any.

 

E. See, that's the misconception I'd like to address. Chaos has a limited duration and range, and causes enemies to shoot the nearest target (meaning each other and the Tenno), totally indiscriminately. Necro's ult causes enemies to become your fully dominated pets incapable of thinking of harming you, tying their lives to the duration of the ability (because you have already killed them). There might be more differences (like ability to recast before the duration ends, whether or not the minions summoned are permanent), but until the ability is released officially there's no way to know for certain.

They're still more different than Slash Dash and Rhino Charge.

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Barrieros

Barrieros

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lets' rather tweak skills till they work compared to replacing with new.

 

1: SOUL PUNCH: Direct X% damage that knocks the soul out of them, 5% armor debuff, stacking.

2: TERROR TOTEM: Necro deploys a totem of terror, causing X number of enemies within radius to
freeze in fear; the rest will flee.

3: SEARCH THE DEAD: Generates loot from corpses (health, energy, ammo, etc).

4: CLONE THE DEAD: Necro creates friendly nano bot clones of the last X enemies he has killed.

 

People will hate this idea, but looking at these skills, I see huge potential for a AOE orrientated frame. I also see that most of the skills will just be altered versions of skills from other frames. I might merge  1 or 2 skills like they did with rhino...it just makes sense.

 

Skill 1: Clone the dead. (minion) (Yes as a 1st skill. Why? As an Ulti, it did sound great, but thanx to survival missions we see that your screen can be flooded by mobs in seconds and with the right weapon you can kill those mobs in seconds...i honestly dont want to have 50 clones running around clogging up my pc performance and generating super LAG, Would the engine even be strong enough to do the calculations....i think not.)

So: Rather make it a fixed number of minions on a 3 tier basis... You summon 1, 2 or 3 minions that fight for you for you untill they die...or untill counter runs out and they explode...(or does that sound too much like D3's zombie dogs...oh well) But they should not be clones of something. (The mods in Necro will also effect the minions, i am liking this more and more)

 

Skill 2: Search the dead. A toggle skill that puts a buff on you and team members. Enemies killed by party are primed at "on death" with a charge. After 3 secs the corpse explodes, doing small radius area of effect dmg (could be affected by the size of the corpse, big enemies do big explosions, smaller enemies, smaller explosions) and dropping red or blue orbs...or the ammo type of the weapon they carried...that is just fair.

 

Skill 3: Puppetmaster: necro puts a buff on a team mate and any damage done to that member is returned to the attacker...( i seemed to need a filler skill, but this fits nicely)

 

Skill 4: Soul Punch + Terror totem. (think raziel from soul reaver legacy of kain) Necro creates vortex that sucks x dps= vitality/health from enemies in area around him for 3,5,7, 10 secs(could even have the player control the charge time). During this 3,5,7,9 mobs are frozen from fear and any other mobs still in the vicinity takes the dmg whilst trying to escape the AOE. The accumelated dmg is then released as a AOE Soul punch blast doing full (armor ignored) accumelated damage to everything in the aoe range but continues past that for x meters untill it fades out and loses potency. During this Necro can take damage, so it will be important to keep him safe. (This is so close to Nyx Ulti...i know, but it makes sense and it would look super awesome seeing all the souls being busted out of their owners)

 

I still think a rework of all his skills is neccessary(just to make it more necromancy-ish), but this could actually bring out the potential of the current skills....might even be lots of fun...who knows.

Edited by Barrieros
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aTrane9001

aTrane9001

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CLONE THE DEAD: Necro creates friendly nano bot clones of the last X enemies he has killed.

i look forward to seeing this. i think DE should start edging away from A0E ultimates, and go for more specialized ultimate skills.

A quick rundown:

Mag, Saryn - immediate constant (even over all enemies) AoE damage

Volt, Banshee - DoT, yet still AoE

Excalibur, Ash - still AoE, but only hits a certain number of enemies in the radius (chosen radius for Ash)

Ember - moving AoE, what I term the "Flaming Wrecking Ball"

Frost, Rhino, Loki - supportive AoE. Frost freezes, Rhino air-stuns, Loki disarms

Nova - AoE, no damage, also supportive

Nyx - AoE, but is based on damage dealt during ultimate.

Trinity - non-AoE, healing and short invincibility, hits other frames no matter where they are

Vauban - somewhat of an AoE, but only just. his is the only ability you can spam, and it no longer affects players. Supportive, little damage, but amazing crowd control, and unlike Ash, doesn't take a minute to use.

so, 12 AoE to 2 non-AoE, 3 if you count Necro. Again, i love how you are going with the ultimates and how they match the frames, but maybe in future frames, a little less AoE.

 

Although, going from previous comments, Raising only the dead you have killed seems a bit unpopular. If the Necro (do we have a name yet?) is supposed to be more of a support, maybe his ultimate could be something like:

Raises X Wraiths that move about the field for Y time, do not attack, but cause enemies to attack them. After a Wraith has taken Z damage, it violently explodes, damaging and (possibly) slowing enemies around it.

Edited by aTrane9001
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aTrane9001

aTrane9001

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i think he has a built in poison resistence... at least i HOPE he does... 

Do any other frames have a resistance to their type? Frost > ice, Ember > fire, Saryn > poison, Volt > Electricity. none of them have a resistance that puts them at a bit more of an advantage over other frames

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ChaoticEdge

ChaoticEdge

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Do any other frames have a resistance to their type? Frost > ice, Ember > fire, Saryn > poison, Volt > Electricity. none of them have a resistance that puts them at a bit more of an advantage over other frames

no double post.

__________

 

if anyone is going complain about "Search the dead, just go wtih my idea with the scarab thing which its "scarab attack live or dead max in full upgrade is 5 target and also when these scarab devour everything of the dead body about double the loot will come out because scarab does leave things behind".

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Archwizard

Archwizard

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Posted (edited)

For skill 2 terror totem, wouldn't Funeral Pyre be a better name possibly. Just thinking out loud here?

Not really. Funeral pyres are more of a ceremonial process, during which viewers standby to honor the deceased.

Necro isn't looking for respect, he's looking for fear.

Scarecrow would be more appropriate, but since we're not trying to scare birds, perhaps something that invokes the fear of inevitable death, a warning of what's to come, like Omen or Grim Tiding.

Edited by Archwizard
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Zoid25

Zoid25

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Posted

Not really. Funeral pyres are more of a ceremonial process, during which viewers standby to honor the deceased.

Necro isn't looking for respect, he's looking for fear.

Scarecrow would be more appropriate, but since we're not trying to scare birds, perhaps something that invokes the fear of inevitable death, a sign of what's to come, like Omen or Grim Tiding.

Actually...its Nekros. not Necro. Just a heads up.

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Archwizard

Archwizard

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They changed "Fear Totem" for the better, but they didn't touch "Search the Dead"...

Actually it looks like they changed it from "more loot from kills while active" to "cast on a single corpse and get more loot".

Before it fades off. Screwed on Infested, since they burn instantly. Or any overkill!

So basically they made it worse.

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